Upcoming Warclaw bug fixes/changes

[Kylden Ar.3724]

@Meviken.2054 said:

@"Lonami.2987" said:

Integrate anti-mount measures in some siege weapon instead.

I agree with this. The Warclaw is nice, but there needs to be some means to deny it or to beat it.

Anti-war-claw siege weapon. Hmm. Maybe like a panzerfaust or a bazooka. Takes 1 supply to fire it. Does 5k damage. Can be re-aimed as quickly as a cannon, and works essentially the same way. But it takes supply to fire it. Alternate ammunition might create an area of goo that reduces speed of warclaws to 1/10, prevents their abilities, and prevents the users from dismounting (they're stuck in tar, after all, and STUCK to their mounts) (that should probably take more supply, like 5 per shot).

Just a thought. Perhaps a bad one.

I swear no one reads tool tips. Let me introduce you to the Balista and the Anti-Air Bolt. It's already there, just no one wants to make them cause not catapults.

@DemonSeed.3528 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

What happens to people who do not have mounts? If there is going to be a method for mount->mount dismounts, shouldn't there also be methods for people who do not have access to mounts to dismount them? And speaking of no access to mounts, I see no mention of mount rental [please consider glider rentals too - just give a temporary one with cost like an hourly rental or an ugly default skin like default model character has].

Again, this will not happen. They need to make money. If you want access to Mounts/Gliders (and frankly to be competetive as the elite specs are the meta) BUY HoT and PoF.

[Cronos.6532]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@Cronos.6532 said:Could you also add a net throw Trick (AoE targetted throw like Target Painter) that prevents a large number of players from mounting up without putting them in combat?

Yes, this is something we've thought about. The main thing I don't like about it is the user experience of trying to use inventory items. Especially during conflict.Well, have you ever tried to find a trap in your inventory, toss it and then built it for supplies in the middle of combat?

That's why a dismount trap is pointless :p

When you have a need to dismount people, it's already too late to use a trap. Having it on a skill is really all we need.

Yeah, I use Tricks way more than Traps.

[Strider Pj.2193]

You named the guild.

[sephiroth.4217]

@Cronos.6532 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@Cronos.6532 said:Could you also add a net throw Trick (AoE targetted throw like Target Painter) that prevents a large number of players from mounting up without putting them in combat?

Yes, this is something we've thought about. The main thing I don't like about it is the user experience of trying to use inventory items. Especially during conflict.Well, have you ever tried to find a trap in your inventory, toss it and then built it for supplies in the middle of combat?

That's why a dismount trap is pointless :p

When you have a need to dismount people, it's already too late to use a trap. Having it on a skill is really all we need.

Yeah, I use Tricks way more than Traps.

Thief joke?

[Awesome Guild Wars Guy.463]

So, you create warclaw, make dummies spend gems on skins that they only going to use 1 out 5 from the package, and now nerf the warclaw literally to the ground, like evade length, jump after dismount, rather than fixing the tower/keep exploits, which were possible to do without warclaw for years now. Smart, smart. Can see when the lazyness kicks in.At the end, warclaw gon be literally useless and non existent. Kinda smart. People say warclaw is ruining wvw, so instead immediately removing it, you nerf it part after part until it become completely useless in wvw and people don't even bother pressing the mount button.

[Master Ketsu.4569]

Tiger mount skin when

[Zyreva.1078]

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

Medium to Long-term

• Working on a dismount trap
• Working on a new mounted skill to dismount other mounted players. This may also dismount yourself. We're still debating that. Feedback welcome.

If you want players to be able to dismount others, the best and easiest to implement solution would be to reduce mount hp and amount of evades.Everything else might just be wasted time.Traps/tricks are way too clunky to use. A dismount skill which dismounts the user will grant a single dismount attempt - against a mount with 3 dodges, that can be spammed every few seconds - good luck landing that skill ... A dismount skill which doesn't dismounts the user, but has a lenghthy cd, leads to the same issue. A spammable dismount skill, which doesn't dismount the user, leads to an unfair mounted vs unmounted situation.Even players who don't have a mount or don't want to use it, should be able to dismount others.

[Nazshar.3051]

Uh... "avoiding fights is bad for WvW" just because you can no longer kill every one (who runs a group/zerg build and is at a severe build disadvantage against self-sustaining "roaming" builds) you encounter. This game is build wars not skill wars. Winning almost all your 1v1/1vX in WvW is most often not a portray of your personal skill. Many times it comes down to the builds of the players involved. Yes, I acknowledge the skill in crafting a very powerful build but every copy and paste meta roaming build is still at a severe advantage against copy and paste group/zerg builds. And yes again, many "group players" still aren't good at this game to this date so the lack of their skill also helps.

So while you wait for the change to be maid how about you try to adapt you "roaming" build to be able to deal with the mount as is. And another yes, this will lead to loss of sustain or movement because you have to deal quick 11k dmg to dismount someone. But I and everyone else know, that a skillful player can kill those very bad roamers aka group/zerg players in the 2 seconds they are stunned.

Personal anecdote: my gimmick soulbeast who has no right in the world to win a serious 1v1 fight can dismount and kill almost anyone with 1 single overcharged Rapid Fire despite those 3 mount provided dodges. The one safe profession is warrior with its automated "Oh Kitten" trait.^^ But you don't have to run a gimmick build to be able to deal with mounts just slightly alter your build if you want to have the advantage of an opening 2 seconds stun.

[Shadowcat.2680]

@Nazshar.3051
I don't know why no one else thought of adding a 11k-12k burst your build can afford to waste on a secondary health pool. Let's all equip our 1500+ range weapons to be sure the damage lands.

[geist.4126]

@"Tomas.6092" said:So, you create warclaw, make dummies spend gems on skins that they only going to use 1 out 5 from the package, and now nerf the warclaw literally to the ground, like evade length, jump after dismount, rather than fixing the tower/keep exploits, which were possible to do without warclaw for years now. Smart, smart. Can see when the lazyness kicks in.At the end, warclaw gon be literally useless and non existent. Kinda smart. People say warclaw is ruining wvw, so instead immediately removing it, you nerf it part after part until it become completely useless in wvw and people don't even bother pressing the mount button.

I wish they would finally take on the issue that stealth is in that game. It's way more overpowered than the mount was/is/will be and still there is no really good counter to abuse of that mechanic.

[geist.4126]

@"HazyDaisy.4107" said:

Post mount: "We can't gank the mounted zerglings, none of them will dismount, fix this!"

At least the word "gank" is used here as it should be. It was never about "we can't get fights anymore" but "we can't gank/faceroll players that have non-ideal 1v1 builds on our fotm overpowered builds anymore"

The fun about this is when it comes from people that call themselves roamers but lose any 1v1 vs real roamers so they group up in 5-10 people and camp somewhere.

[KrHome.1920]

Gankers and resetters before warclaw was introduced: "Play a roaming spec if you want to compete with our run away capabilities!"

Gankers and resetters after warclaw was introduced: "I don't want to switch my spec to longbow soulbeast to be able to deal with players that can run away."

That's some special type of human we are dealing with in this game mode, that is for sure!

@topic:Okay ANet, just nerf everything. I don't care anymore. The Division 2 has great mechanics too. But keep in mind, that the players who are complaining now, are the players that did kill the game mode during the last few years as they did make newbies, who were ganked 24/7, leave WvW before it even had the chance to attract them. And now we have population issues.

[sephiroth.4217]

@"KrHome.1920" said:Gankers and resetters before warclaw was introduced: "Play a roaming spec if you want to compete with our run away capabilities!"

Gankers and resetters after warclaw was introduced: "I don't want to switch my spec to longbow soulbeast to be able to deal with players that can run away."

That's some special type of human we are dealing with in this game mode, that is for sure!

@topic:Okay ANet, just nerf everything. I don't care anymore. The Division 2 has great mechanics too. But keep in mind, that the players who are complaining now, are the players that did kill the game mode during the last few years as they did make newbies, who were ganked 24/7, leave WvW before it even had the chance to attract them. And now we have population issues.

I don't see the big deal everyone is making...

Dismount skill means roamers can gank 1 person sure, but it also means a zerg could dismount a small group too.

Once the changes are in, nothing else will change, everyone will still be able to enjoy the mount and the extra mobility it provides.

[Vrath.1754]

@UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

Medium to Long-term

• Working on a dismount trap
• Working on a new mounted skill to dismount other mounted players. This may also dismount yourself. We're still debating that. Feedback welcome.

If you want players to be able to dismount others, the best and easiest to implement solution would be to reduce mount hp and amount of evades.Everything else might just be wasted time.Traps/tricks are way too clunky to use. A dismount skill which dismounts the user will grant a single dismount attempt - against a mount with 3 dodges, that can be spammed every few seconds - good luck landing that skill ... A dismount skill which doesn't dismounts the user, but has a lenghthy cd, leads to the same issue. A spammable dismount skill, which doesn't dismount the user, leads to an unfair mounted vs unmounted situation.Even players who don't have a mount or don't want to use it, should be able to dismount others.

All fair points, a player not mounted should be able to easily dismount another player. As any new or returning players will join and have limited opportunities to keep up with a zerg or engage in any fight that the enemy players choose not to engage in till they out number the new player. It will lead to a pretty shitty play experience. Unless they are all supposed to play an OP Soulbeast which practically every person that claims dismounting is fine, quotes as their reference.

Part of the goal should be to retain as many new and returning players as possible for the game mode. And Anet is clearly with their announcement of their 'welcome back...' week it's an attempt to get these players into the game. WvW shouldn't be ignored. The new blood is needed to balance out those that leave.

[Anput.4620]

The dismount skill could be like a hookshot, where you pull them to you and dismount yourself, like dragonhunter's pull but longer range.

A catchup mechanic should be here too as there is no real way to catch someone on a mount, maybe a leap that does not dismount you but only works when targeting an enemy mounted played, and it always leaps you towards them, or you know, make the mount swiftness walking speed, i'd actually play again then.

A trap doesn't sound useful as it won't really do anything if someone just turns around as soon as they see you comming.

Also, the mount shouldn't be able to contest any objectives, because people just dance around on it.

As a roamer i can't find any fights and the game hasn't been playable, almost all my friends have already quit but i am waiting to see what will happen.

What i would do is make the mount swiftness walking speed, keep CC immunity and remove the CC on dismount, halve the HP and make it 2 leaps that share endurance with your character.

[Anput.4620]

@"Karnasis.6892" said:I'm personally in favor of just leaving well enough alone. I get there are folks upset that mounts just make the game unfun for them, but if I'm trying to get to my zerg because I joined a rally or play session late and have to cross half the map, I'd prefer a way that I can without interruptions.

I'm all for fights but for me it's a time and place. Many many times I've been in that late join scenario and suddenly 3/4ths of the way getting to my zerg the first time and bam, thief jumps me out of no where, or a mirage, or literally anything. I've also been in situations where that happened multiple times BEFORE I've wasted 30 or 40 minutes getting to my zerg. Not being forced into combat because I have an 11k hp mount has been a Godsend. And yes I get that roaming has "died" because of mounts but roaming isn't just fights, though it's a good portion of it.

IF this goes through, I don't think 1200 range is healthy, especially if you are playing a build that isn't meant for roaming. I'd be okay if you have to get close as a risk vs reward system, if I have to get close there is a good chance I might take a hit if the opponent is faster than me or anticipating an attack. Like 600 range would be a bit more reasonable imo.

And before I get blasted, I UNDERSTAND how frustrating it is not being able to fight in a game mode designed for fighting, but the mount has made me more interested in WvW than before, as my favorite map is the ever hated DBL, but that map feels so much larger than the alpine (even if it actually isn't) that the mount just feels right there.Still not keen on a forced dismount skill however, but that's my opinion.

Your sole argument is that you don't want to lose your free out of jail ticket, how is this fair in any way? Even if you say you understand that people that just want to run and fight literally can't play the game anymore.

[Baldrick.8967]

Medium to Long-term

Working on a dismount trap

Hahahahahahahah. Because traps are soooo useful and everyone uses them, right? right?

I can count on the finger of one hand how many people regularly use traps- it's hard enough to get people to build siege never mind set supply eating traps. As for 'stealth' traps, complete waste of space.

[Anput.4620]

@Manuhell.2759 said:

@"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

I don't understand?? How are they able to kill you when you both reset?Surely you are able to wp out when they try to reset, of if not then run the other way and force them classes to burn more stuff up to re-close the gap.When even I tried to do that reset "trick" the other guy has either wp out or also reset and back to full health

Because some classes can just keep forcing a fight and reset it until they win, as other classes lack the in-combat mobility to do the same.And waypointing in such a situation means that even if you forced the enemy to reset the fight, you're still giving up in doing what you were meant to do. So what's the point, it's still a loss even if you haven't died. Sure, one could run away (depending on the situation) but if the cooldowns are relatively low, that burn-up you talk of is essentially moot (and won't stop them from using other skills to escape the fight later on).For some classes, the only way to win such a fight is to not fight to start with - and that's what the mount helped to do, as you couldn't just get close and force a fight.

So, again, why can some classes be free to choose to force,escape and avoid fights at their leisure, but others - as these mount nerfs show us - shouldn't even be able to avoid them? Either it is bad for the game mode or it isn't. Since there is no issue in changing the design of the mount, i assume they'll do the same to those other classes. For the good of the mode. After all, if they don't want to fight and die in a fight, they can just get back to PvE.

Why do some classes get to spam yellow aoe damage or infinite boons/heals while thieves can't?

[Karnasis.6892]

@"Anput.4620" said:

Your sole argument is that you don't want to lose your free out of jail ticket, how is this fair in any way? Even if you say you understand that people that just want to run and fight literally can't play the game anymore.

They still can, I haven't seen anyone not being able to play the game at all, does having amount stop you from engaging in fights if they are dismounted? Does it stop you from logging in and running from camp to camp or towers and potentially running into someone and attacking them? In my experience before the mounts were added people didn't engage unless they thought they had an advantage (be class or build or just that you didn't see them), the only difference is now is someone might be able to out run you. Or maybe, just stop using your mount and others might come to attack you since you "can't run away". You just have to think of ways to encourage folks to engage you instead of you always initiating the fight.

I'm okay with the mount the way it is, but if it absolutely added, it should just have a short range (600 range might be even to far, I like 300 more after thinking about it)

[Manuhell.2759]

@Anput.4620 said:Why do some classes get to spam yellow aoe damage or infinite boons/heals while thieves can't?

Because thieves mostly deal with single target damage (and excel on it with small hitbox targets, i may add).Still, this has nothing to do with what i asked. You can do whatever aoe,boon or heal, but if the enemy can just go away at its leisure, they're useless.If it is bad for the mode, deal with it and be done. Force to fight and deny the possibility to flee for everyone.Let me tell you a story about the past. Engineer' turrets were designed to defend and protect an area. And dealt at it quite well. But since it was deemed bad for PvP, developers had no issue nerfing them and making them useless at it. They're still like that, utterly useless as far as being turrets go. A whole category of skills gone like that, for the good of the mode.So, even if they were to do the same to other classes for the good of WvW, what should the issue be? It's not like the first time it happened.

[Kovu.7560]

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@Cronos.6532 said:Could you also add a net throw Trick (AoE targetted throw like Target Painter) that prevents a large number of players from mounting up without putting them in combat?

Yes, this is something we've thought about. The main thing I don't like about it is the user experience of trying to use inventory items. Especially during conflict.

A wvw-specific inventory/UI is something many players have been calling for, for quite a while. Easy access to siege, shops (if you have the mastery) and tricks would be a big boon for the gamemode not only because it makes that stuff more readily accessible but it also helps to keep regular inventories less cluttered. If you want to take it a step further and allow players to hotkey specific items for on the fly use (such as traps or siege), even better -- but I imagine that would involve more programming than it would be worth.

A guy can dream. =)

~ Kovu

[Kylden Ar.3724]

@"KrHome.1920" said:Gankers and resetters before warclaw was introduced: "Play a roaming spec if you want to compete with our run away capabilities!"

Gankers and resetters after warclaw was introduced: "I don't want to switch my spec to longbow soulbeast to be able to deal with players that can run away."

That's some special type of human we are dealing with in this game mode, that is for sure!

@topic:Okay ANet, just nerf everything. I don't care anymore. The Division 2 has great mechanics too. But keep in mind, that the players who are complaining now, are the players that did kill the game mode during the last few years as they did make newbies, who were ganked 24/7, leave WvW before it even had the chance to attract them. And now we have population issues.

Been playing WvW for 5 of my 6 years in this game and agree 100%.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

How about after some war kitten fixes we do somthing about the ridiculous scourge spamming in wvw,zergs and all the classes in it are literally forced into ranged battle due to one classes ability to spam aoe’s in such a ridiculous manner,the literally drive every Zerg.

[Anput.4620]

@Manuhell.2759 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:

If you come to WvW to avoid fights, that's a reason why you are only a PvE player and it's just better stick to it instead.

To be honest ganks are even more frequent now, you are in combat and people chase you forever with the mount speed and kill you.

WvW is a war zone map, if you like the safety, stick to PvE mobs, it's safe there and you can avoid them easily.

We already had classes able to do so, or even to escape in the middle of the fight and come back after they recovered (and keep doing that until they killed the opponent). So, are they getting a nerf in their mobility as well? Or escaping and avoiding fights is fine in that case?Cause the only thing that changed with the mount is that everyone else can avoid fights as well (albeit not necessarily escape from them). And now it's being severely neutered.But either this is in issue, or it is not. If it's an issue, then fix it for everyone. Instead of just nerfing the mounts.

Sure give daredevil 100% more damage and remove shortbow 5 idc, i never had problems with other classes doing this.

@Jayden Reese.9542 said:

@Anput.4620 said:

@"Karnasis.6892" said:I'm personally in favor of just leaving well enough alone. I get there are folks upset that mounts just make the game unfun for them, but if I'm trying to get to my zerg because I joined a rally or play session late and have to cross half the map, I'd prefer a way that I can without interruptions.

I'm all for fights but for me it's a time and place. Many many times I've been in that late join scenario and suddenly 3/4ths of the way getting to my zerg the first time and bam, thief jumps me out of no where, or a mirage, or literally anything. I've also been in situations where that happened multiple times BEFORE I've wasted 30 or 40 minutes getting to my zerg. Not being forced into combat because I have an 11k hp mount has been a Godsend. And yes I get that roaming has "died" because of mounts but roaming isn't just fights, though it's a good portion of it.

IF this goes through, I don't think 1200 range is healthy, especially if you are playing a build that isn't meant for roaming. I'd be okay if you have to get close as a risk vs reward system, if I have to get close there is a good chance I might take a hit if the opponent is faster than me or anticipating an attack. Like 600 range would be a bit more reasonable imo.

And before I get blasted, I UNDERSTAND how frustrating it is not being able to fight in a game mode designed for fighting, but the mount has made me more interested in WvW than before, as my favorite map is the ever hated DBL, but that map feels so much larger than the alpine (even if it actually isn't) that the mount just feels right there.Still not keen on a forced dismount skill however, but that's my opinion.

Your sole argument is that you don't want to lose your free out of jail ticket, how is this fair in any way? Even if you say you understand that people that just want to run and fight literally can't play the game anymore.

Ya, man the sole reason WvW was made was so someone could run around the map looking for 1v1s. These towers and camps and keeps are just scenery. Even in your video 50 percent of the players fought you. This mode wasn't made to group up join guilds capture objectives or defend stuff just run around and kitten no one is playing exactly the way you want. Your not a thief or mez I give you that but you even complain about marked like omg im marked. I'm a dot on the map oh noes imagine a stealth class marked not in combat what can he do? Wp go in a diff direction no he's doomed. 20 players are converging on his location as we speak and will all get there b4 the 30 seconds are up and he couldn't avoid a sentry cuz they everywhere. Unplayable. Please. Players like you won't be happy unless a harpoon gun skill is added w half the map range pulls him to you wraps him up in a bow for you to fight.

I am not the person in the video but i have the exact same issues, yes thay dismount skill but without the CC would be perfect and still leave you in a better position than pre-mounts.

[Anput.4620]

@Karnasis.6892 said:

@"Anput.4620" said:

Your sole argument is that you don't want to lose your free out of jail ticket, how is this fair in any way? Even if you say you understand that people that just want to run and fight literally can't play the game anymore.

They still can, I haven't seen anyone not being able to play the game at all, does having amount stop you from engaging in fights if they are dismounted? Does it stop you from logging in and running from camp to camp or towers and potentially running into someone and attacking them? In my experience before the mounts were added people didn't engage unless they thought they had an advantage (be class or build or just that you didn't see them), the only difference is now is someone might be able to out run you. Or maybe, just stop using your mount and others might come to attack you since you "can't run away". You just have to think of ways to encourage folks to engage you instead of you always initiating the fight.

I'm okay with the mount the way it is, but if it absolutely added, it should just have a short range (600 range might be even to far, I like 300 more after thinking about it)

But nobody dismounts because they don't care about the objective.

Poeple i find like that just mount up and run.

If i dismount poeple still walk past me unless they are multiple.

Encouraging people to attack me doesn't work because it puts the choice of conflict on the defender which insures that fights either don't happen or as a gank.

Also, why such a low range? How do you even get next to someone to dismount them then? Oh wait, you don't! Just like you intended.

You haven't seen anyone not be able to play? All my roaming friends have quit either WvW or the whole game if they only did WvW.

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:How about after some war kitten fixes we do somthing about the ridiculous scourge spamming in wvw,zergs and all the classes in it are literally forced into ranged battle due to one classes ability to spam aoe’s in such a ridiculous manner,the literally drive every Zerg.

Nono Thieves are broken, not necros, necros just disregard the broken shit they are and just call everything unfair because Thieves and Mesmers are broken even though they just excell in different areas.