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Upcoming Warclaw bug fixes/changes


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@Drastic.8920 said:Please consider an ICD if a player was forced to dismount.

I second this, no player who is dismounted and can OOC (OUT OF COMBAT) really quickly like a dash thief or a Mirage with ports, should be able to mount up instantly. Please put a CD on it if the mount was killed or player was forcefully dismounted. Like 20 seconds or something.

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@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@"Mechanix.9315" said:Thx BenP,

Working on a new mounted skill to dismount other mounted players. This may also dismount yourself. We're still debating that. Feedback welcome.

If you guys thinking in a new skill, rather than adding the behaviour to skill 1, then should be a dismount with range, so you can actually dismount from lets say 1200 range, like a chain, its the only thing that i can think right now in order to not be forced to play longbow soulbeast.

This is the most important change imo, maybe i can get back into game with this change.

Ranged attack is the current plan. Exact range tbd.

Could dismount functionality be added to the current gate-chain skill? Seems like it'd be pretty fitting.

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@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:Hey all, just wanted to put out a quick note about some upcoming Warclaw changes.

Short-term

  • We're working on a fix for the issue where people can get stuck on their mount, and still have their 3 evades and such. There may be more than one bug that causes this, but we think we're getting the most egregious one.
  • We're going to remove the jump on dismount. It's one of the biggest things used to bypass walls/gates and it was faster to remove the jump rather than try to fix each of those individually.
  • Fix to the sitting in box achievement areas so you can mount up in them.

Medium to Long-term

  • Working on a dismount trap
  • Working on a new mounted skill to dismount other mounted players. This may also dismount yourself. We're still debating that. Feedback welcome.

Even Longer term

  • We're considering adding break-bars to the WvW Mount. It's still a big if, as this will also require UI considerations.

Edit: Added cat box achievement fix.

What about stealth?

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@Toolbox.9375 said:

@"Mechanix.9315" said:Thx BenP,

Working on a new mounted skill to dismount other mounted players. This may also dismount yourself. We're still debating that. Feedback welcome.

If you guys thinking in a new skill, rather than adding the behaviour to skill 1, then should be a dismount with range, so you can actually dismount from lets say 1200 range, like a chain, its the only thing that i can think right now in order to not be forced to play longbow soulbeast.

This is the most important change imo, maybe i can get back into game with this change.

Ranged attack is the current plan. Exact range tbd.

Could dismount functionality be added to the current gate-chain skill? Seems like it'd be pretty fitting.

That was the original plan. But that skill turned out so bloated in terms of how it needed to be implemented that I really didn't want to put anything else on it.

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@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:Hey all, just wanted to put out a quick note about some upcoming Warclaw changes.

Short-term

  • We're working on a fix for the issue where people can get stuck on their mount, and still have their 3 evades and such. There may be more than one bug that causes this, but we think we're getting the most egregious one.
  • We're going to remove the jump on dismount. It's one of the biggest things used to bypass walls/gates and it was faster to remove the jump rather than try to fix each of those individually.
  • Fix to the sitting in box achievement areas so you can mount up in them.

Medium to Long-term

  • Working on a dismount trap
  • Working on a new mounted skill to dismount other mounted players. This may also dismount yourself. We're still debating that. Feedback welcome.

Even Longer term

  • We're considering adding break-bars to the WvW Mount. It's still a big if, as this will also require UI considerations.

Edit: Added cat box achievement fix.

whats the point of dismount trap? i mean traps in general are useless just waste of supply.just put mounts HP to 3/4k max for any1

and make them vurnable to CC not with greenish bar thing just walk over a chill zone and you're chilled just like normal players.dont give me stuff like its hard to code it, its not bit of a copy paste work for any experience coder.

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@"MithranArkanere.8957" said:Do not forget to fix the no mount areas in the catmander rooms so people can mount inside the cat boxes. That or make the achievement count by using a ca transformation like the one obtained from rollerbeetles.

Here's some recommendations for the warclaw:

  • Give the mount the Exhaustion effect Daredevils get when using Dash. This will keep 3 consecutiv evades servizable without allowing too much evade spam by preventing recovering endurance while evading.
  • Make the main target of Sniff keep the mark longer than the rest, and give them an effect to warn them that they are marked (so they can also feint where their group is going by moving away from them).
  • Instead adding anew skill to dismount enemies, adapt the the Chain Pull skill to work on other mounts, to make it more intuitive and easier to use.
    • When used on doors, it'll work as usual, switching to siege mode and consuming 1 siege to do 2000 damage.
    • When used on another mount, it'll tether to the the other mount and flip over to a new "Chain Lasso" skill.
      • When tethered, both mounts would get a defiance bar. When a mount breakbar breaks, the player is dismounted.
      • The Chain Lasso skill would have a 1s recharge, and it would deal a tiny bit of damage or bleeding to the enemy mount (to put the enemy in combat), reduce their movement speed by 3% with a stacking effect that stacks up to 5 times (and that is lost on dismount), and remove 10% of the enemy breakbar and 5% of your own's breakbar.
      • Up to 3 mounts can lasso an enemy mount, meaning they can reduce their speed up by down to -45%, and take the mount down with 10 pulls between all 3.
      • The lassoed enemy can break free from a tether if they move away from the range or teleport through an ally door in a keep or tower, and their skills will not be affected, so they can also chain pull the enemy back.
      • Allies and enemies can also use their soft and hard CC to help break the temporary defiance bars in mounts.
      • The defiance bar in either mount would remain for 10 seconds after the tether ends, both after a mount breaks free or an enemy is dismounted.
    • The lasso will also work on champions like Lords to break their defiance bar, but it will only do 2000 damage per pull at most.
    • The lasso would also work on enemies with a WvW banner that gives a breakbar, but it'll be rather risky to use, since chances are they'll get damaged and dismounted instead before breaking the bar.
    • This new ability could require a new tier of the WvW ability in the WvW upgrades panel.
  • Add a way for non-pof players to catch up. For example:
    • An improved speed effect. It could be obtained in one of several ways:
      • Eternal Battlegrounds and Alpine could get shrines like the Desert that allow quickly jumping between the vicinity of their keeps. The blessing of elements from the shrines would increase out of combat speed to mount speed. But the combat speed would remain +40%.
      • A new WvW ability tier for the warclaw would give it n aura that would grant out of combat speed to allies as long as they are close enough. It would not affect allies in combat.
        • A simple effect that can be obtained for 5 badges of honor at any controlled objective that lasts until entering combat.
    • Pulling carts.
      • These would be basically 2-wheel carts with 4 seats built with 10 supply, that would allow up to 4 players to 'ride' them by using them like one would use a siege golem. They would able to use the dismount key to leave it.
      • Warclaws would be able to attach themselves to one by using skill 3 on one.
      • Players would only be able to ride a cart while it's attached to a mount. When the mount dismounts, the cart is detached and the passengers dismount too.
    • Mount rental:
      • Mount rental would be available at the main base (e.g. Citadel) and at T3 objectives. It will cost 100 hero badges and give use of a basic mount with no abilities that can only run as fast as other mounts. It will not even have the engage skill.
      • To keep the warclaw skin unique to PoF owners, the appearance of the rented mount would be a blurry mist with horse-like head that kind of looks like something in-between a hobby horse and a horse-shaped cloud. Kind of like the Mistfire wolf, but blurrier, foggier, and less enticing. This will also be homage to all the dead horses we've never can see in the GW franchise, as it'll be hard to tell this is a horse if it wasn't for the horse sound it'll make.
      • To avoid making this mount signal "this person does not own pof, PoF owners will also be able to buy this "Mist Horse" skin for the warclaw with skirmish tokens. This skin will not by dyeable.
  • Add a new "Dolyak Walker" tier to the WvW mastery that will allow using Skill 3 to tether the mount to a dolyak. Under no other effects, the dolyak will move as fast as when under swiftness when tethered to a warclaw, but the warclaw speed will be changed to match the exact speed of the dolyak (e.g.: slower when crippled faster with superspeed). Only 3 mounts would be able to tether to a single dolyak, but there would be no bonuses for doing so. This would be mostly a way to allow following dolyaks with autorun more comfortbly.

Dismount trap:

  • Make it a cone rather than a line. Or, if traps even get a wvw mastery, make the trap radius increase from a narrow line to cone with a wider and wider angle up to a circle.
  • Take the opportunity to improve traps when adding a dismount trap:
    • Give traps their own separate supply, let's call it 'trap parts' for now. (This will require new account data and UI modifications)
    • Trap Parts will be obtainable in any controlled objective regardless of supply, including sentries and monuments, by using a new object (e.g. Dispenser) similar to the Healing Kits dispensers in sentries. There will be a cooldown to use each individual Dispenser again, so people don't sit at a dispenser spamming traps. (This will require mp and map data additions, the assesst for supply can be reused)
    • Further in time, there could be a new WvW Trap mastery ability track that will improve trap effects, allow using more complex traps, increase the amount of trap parts that can be carried to up to 25, decrease the cost of deploying a trap down to 5 trap parts and reduce the cooldown of the trap dispenser up to a half. The shortest cooldown of the dispenser will be balanced based on this to avoid trap over-spam.

what the ?? why would u want all this stuff in wvw?just remove whole mount all problems solved :D

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@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@"Mechanix.9315" said:Thx BenP,

Working on a new mounted skill to dismount other mounted players. This may also dismount yourself. We're still debating that. Feedback welcome.

If you guys thinking in a new skill, rather than adding the behaviour to skill 1, then should be a dismount with range, so you can actually dismount from lets say 1200 range, like a chain, its the only thing that i can think right now in order to not be forced to play longbow soulbeast.

This is the most important change imo, maybe i can get back into game with this change.

Ranged attack is the current plan. Exact range tbd.

Could dismount functionality be added to the current gate-chain skill? Seems like it'd be pretty fitting.

That was the original plan. But that skill turned out so bloated in terms of how it needed to be implemented that I really didn't want to put anything else on it.

Hey Ben, thanks so much for reaching out to us and sharing some upcoming changes / keeping us in the loop. The changes that you said will be coming sound great and like you're on the same page as the community in terms of what should be fixed.

It sounds like making a separate chain lasso skill is the best option, and I think a 600 range would be most fair personally, with the skill dismounting both players (unless the target evaded, in which case it should dismount the user only).

One thing that concerned myself and other people was the stomp being included in the Maul ability. If I run with a group of friends, some of them running support - a Firebrand who can Merciless Intervention our downs, or a Chrono with Illusion of Life - and we're fighting a larger zerg, say 10v30. If one of us gets downed, then the larger numbers can very quickly instantly stomp (before even our very competent guild players can MI/Illusion) us if a mistake gets made. However we can't take advantage of this in the same way - it's suicide to jump into a larger force to mountstomp their downs. Is there any chance you would consider removing the stomp? Or perhaps making the stomp requirements higher? Perhaps stomp only if the target is under 50% downed health (so there is small window at least for players to use resurrection skills)? I hope these suggestions sound reasonable and thanks again.

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@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@"Mechanix.9315" said:Thx BenP,

Working on a new mounted skill to dismount other mounted players. This may also dismount yourself. We're still debating that. Feedback welcome.

If you guys thinking in a new skill, rather than adding the behaviour to skill 1, then should be a dismount with range, so you can actually dismount from lets say 1200 range, like a chain, its the only thing that i can think right now in order to not be forced to play longbow soulbeast.

This is the most important change imo, maybe i can get back into game with this change.

Ranged attack is the current plan. Exact range tbd.

Awesome, looking forward to it

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@ProverbsofHell.2307 said:

@"Mechanix.9315" said:Thx BenP,

Working on a new mounted skill to dismount other mounted players. This may also dismount yourself. We're still debating that. Feedback welcome.

If you guys thinking in a new skill, rather than adding the behaviour to skill 1, then should be a dismount with range, so you can actually dismount from lets say 1200 range, like a chain, its the only thing that i can think right now in order to not be forced to play longbow soulbeast.

This is the most important change imo, maybe i can get back into game with this change.

Ranged attack is the current plan. Exact range tbd.

Could dismount functionality be added to the current gate-chain skill? Seems like it'd be pretty fitting.

That was the original plan. But that skill turned out so bloated in terms of how it needed to be implemented that I really didn't want to put anything else on it.

Hey Ben, thanks so much for reaching out to us and sharing some upcoming changes / keeping us in the loop. The changes that you said will be coming sound great and like you're on the same page as the community in terms of what should be fixed.

It sounds like making a separate chain lasso skill is the best option, and I think a 600 range would be most fair personally, with the skill dismounting both players (unless the target evaded, in which case it should dismount the user only).

One thing that concerned myself and other people was the stomp being included in the Maul ability. If I run with a group of friends, some of them running support - a Firebrand who can Merciless Intervention our downs, or a Chrono with Illusion of Life - and we're fighting a larger zerg, say 10v30. If one of us gets downed, then the larger numbers can very quickly instantly stomp (before even our very competent guild players can MI/Illusion) us if a mistake gets made. However we can't take advantage of this in the same way - it's suicide to jump into a larger force to mountstomp their downs. Is there any chance you would consider removing the stomp? Or perhaps making the stomp requirements higher? Perhaps stomp only if the target is under 50% downed health (so there is small window at least for players to use resurrection skills)? I hope these suggestions sound reasonable and thanks again.

I agree with you except on:

with the skill dismounting both players (unless the target evaded, in which case it should dismount the user only).

Shouldnt dismount you if you fail the attack, thats basically the same as the current situation, it should just say "Missed" and enter in cooldown. So you can at least still chase with mount, also think about it, we dont have many stuff or actually none, to actually "bait" dodges, it will be pointless.BenP said the range is "tdb" but you think 600 is fair? the triple dodge leap is already a covering that gap, it will be super easy to avoid, and what if you activate the skill and suddenly out of range going full cooldown, that happens already with a lot of skills sadly.

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No mention of the "exploit" or bug that is mounting up while stealth causing you to appear as rubber-banding to other players. Pretty cancerous when fighting large groups and they are all rubberbanding everywhere completely avoiding any damage. It's not so much an exploit as it is just egregious oversight of a simple graphics bug. I mean, yall didn't even test mounting up while stealthed? It's very easily reproduce-able and I can't believe yall didn't even mention it. INB4 comment gets deleted.

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  • Yes to a dismount trap for mass player disruption. This could be really fun for messing up a zerg's plan to quickly push through on mounts. More tactics are good.
  • Yes to a mount skill that dismounts players. This is needed more than anything as it's currently not really possible to engage another mounted player when mounted yourself unless you do enough damage when you dismount yourself before the other player just evades into the distance.
  • Yes to a breakbar so we can use CC to stop other players.

In regards to the dismount skill, I think it should also dismount the user, otherwise you'll get players dismounting each other and then simply riding off - which sort of just reverses the problem we have now. I'd like to see it as a means to engagement and not a yoink and troll device.

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@"Mechanix.9315" said:

@"Mechanix.9315" said:Thx BenP,

Working on a new mounted skill to dismount other mounted players. This may also dismount yourself. We're still debating that. Feedback welcome.

If you guys thinking in a new skill, rather than adding the behaviour to skill 1, then should be a dismount with range, so you can actually dismount from lets say 1200 range, like a chain, its the only thing that i can think right now in order to not be forced to play longbow soulbeast.

This is the most important change imo, maybe i can get back into game with this change.

Ranged attack is the current plan. Exact range tbd.

Could dismount functionality be added to the current gate-chain skill? Seems like it'd be pretty fitting.

That was the original plan. But that skill turned out so bloated in terms of how it needed to be implemented that I really didn't want to put anything else on it.

Hey Ben, thanks so much for reaching out to us and sharing some upcoming changes / keeping us in the loop. The changes that you said will be coming sound great and like you're on the same page as the community in terms of what should be fixed.

It sounds like making a separate chain lasso skill is the best option, and I think a 600 range would be most fair personally, with the skill dismounting both players (unless the target evaded, in which case it should dismount the user only).

One thing that concerned myself and other people was the stomp being included in the Maul ability. If I run with a group of friends, some of them running support - a Firebrand who can Merciless Intervention our downs, or a Chrono with Illusion of Life - and we're fighting a larger zerg, say 10v30. If one of us gets downed, then the larger numbers can very quickly instantly stomp (before even our very competent guild players can MI/Illusion) us if a mistake gets made. However we can't take advantage of this in the same way - it's suicide to jump into a larger force to mountstomp their downs. Is there any chance you would consider removing the stomp? Or perhaps making the stomp requirements higher? Perhaps stomp only if the target is under 50% downed health (so there is small window at least for players to use resurrection skills)? I hope these suggestions sound reasonable and thanks again.

I agree with you except on:

with the skill dismounting both players (unless the target evaded, in which case it should dismount the user only).

Shouldnt dismount you if you fail the attack, thats basically the same as the current situation, it should just say "Missed" and enter in cooldown. So you can at least still chase with mount, also think about it, we dont have many stuff or actually none, to actually "bait" dodges, it will be pointless.BenP said the range is "tdb" but you think 600 is fair? the triple dodge leap is already a covering that gap, it will be super easy to avoid, and what if you activate the skill and suddenly out of range going full cooldown, that happens already with a lot of skills sadly.

Well I'd say that sounds agreeable - the first thing you suggested, because you're right, there's no other way to really bait dodges. So I think not dismounting the player using it would be fine, in retrospect. I'll amend my original post to what you proposed.

However I disagree about a higher range than 600, I think that favors larger forces too much, especially when entering enemy territory and you're already slower (so should you be punished further than this for going into enemy territory and providing fights?). At least this way a good timed evade can prevent the dismount, while not being fully escapable. At most it shouldn't be any higher than 900, and I still think 600.

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@Joey.2769 said:Why are the devs so shy to discuss the kitten show caused by being able to stealth mounts?

Maybe the devs aren't in agreement yet that it really needs changing. It'd be pretty trivial to have the revealed debuff applied while mounted, so it isn't something they can't address.

My guess is that they will first do something about sneak gyro, and then depending on how that impacts the cloaking issue, decide if further action is needed.

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@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:About the chain pull usefulness: We've been considering a couple changes. But not sure when we'll get to it. Unless we do option 1 which is really easy.

  1. Easy: Just up the damage
  2. Not as easy: Change it to spend supply up front and try to make it a charged skill. This way we can more easily adjust the damage/supply.

Thank you for the response. If 1 is easier, that would be fine. I would not want it to be equal to or over a basic ram, but close (1000 less per hit) would be reasonable. Still not taking a gate down without supply runs with just one warclaw, but not useless (in particular supporting a real ram).

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@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@Chaba.5410 said:Thanks for the update.

Is there any ETA on the bug where people coming out of stealth can appear to still be on their mounts even when they've dismounted?

Not yet, we're still looking into this one.

As far as rough estimates of the time. Short term is weeks. I don't want to say on the rest, as we're still figuring out our team's release cadence after recent events.

Ugh... That's rather disappointing. So really we are talking about hopefully by 2020 for all changes?

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Break Bar is a horrible idea. IMO. I'd stick with the dismount skill, that sounds fantastic and I can play some other characters again. I think both players should be dismounted otherwise, people would just dismount and run away to be trolls. I can't stress enough though, obviously this my personal and guilds opinion only, Break Bar would be a BAD idea. Simple is more, SOMETIMES - THANK YOU! For updates!!

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I'm personally in favor of just leaving well enough alone. I get there are folks upset that mounts just make the game unfun for them, but if I'm trying to get to my zerg because I joined a rally or play session late and have to cross half the map, I'd prefer a way that I can without interruptions.

I'm all for fights but for me it's a time and place. Many many times I've been in that late join scenario and suddenly 3/4ths of the way getting to my zerg the first time and bam, thief jumps me out of no where, or a mirage, or literally anything. I've also been in situations where that happened multiple times BEFORE I've wasted 30 or 40 minutes getting to my zerg. Not being forced into combat because I have an 11k hp mount has been a Godsend. And yes I get that roaming has "died" because of mounts but roaming isn't just fights, though it's a good portion of it.

IF this goes through, I don't think 1200 range is healthy, especially if you are playing a build that isn't meant for roaming. I'd be okay if you have to get close as a risk vs reward system, if I have to get close there is a good chance I might take a hit if the opponent is faster than me or anticipating an attack. Like 600 range would be a bit more reasonable imo.

And before I get blasted, I UNDERSTAND how frustrating it is not being able to fight in a game mode designed for fighting, but the mount has made me more interested in WvW than before, as my favorite map is the ever hated DBL, but that map feels so much larger than the alpine (even if it actually isn't) that the mount just feels right there.Still not keen on a forced dismount skill however, but that's my opinion.

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@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@"Mechanix.9315" said:Thx BenP,

Working on a new mounted skill to dismount other mounted players. This may also dismount yourself. We're still debating that. Feedback welcome.

If you guys thinking in a new skill, rather than adding the behaviour to skill 1, then should be a dismount with range, so you can actually dismount from lets say 1200 range, like a chain, its the only thing that i can think right now in order to not be forced to play longbow soulbeast.

This is the most important change imo, maybe i can get back into game with this change.

Ranged attack is the current plan. Exact range tbd.

Could dismount functionality be added to the current gate-chain skill? Seems like it'd be pretty fitting.

That was the original plan. But that skill turned out so bloated in terms of how it needed to be implemented that I really didn't want to put anything else on it.

Please, remove the evades. It broke every strategy into holding choke points or fighting bigger groups.They can just evade any bomb making so hard to defend those points. It's stupid the OP that those evades are.

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On traps: please consider to make it as "group combat only" -- specifically to have, say, 3+ players in the trap immediate area to trigger it and dismount.Mostly to keep the mount's usability as an anti-ganker tool. Right now mount is the only possible way for non-veteran players to be able to sprint past thieves ganking lower level players and making their life miserable. Or make the new trap extremely short lived and with "suspicious activity" indicator of sort (a non-removable enemy reveal for long range, perhaps? :D) -- there's no counterplay to a trap. You remember condi trap thieves, right?

If we get random "dismount" trap it'll absolutely be used exactly for one purpose -- so players hunting out of stealth could force someone into combat and insta (or two-shot) kill them. This is not fun for anyone on the receiving end and subtracts from the game experience more than it adds (people with cheesy thief build).

Similarly, if we do have "force-unmount other player" that also should both stun the originator (and not even stab should help with that), and apply unremovable reveal with significant amount of time (non-removable even by deadeye elite). So there would be a risk for those who actually try to dismount other players.

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I'm not particularly in favour of a dismount skill option, but if it is going to happen anyway, I think the dismount skill should 1) dismount BOTH players, 2) put BOTH players in combat - so neither player can mount back up immediately, and 3) either cost 5 supply to do so, OR have a 5-10 cooldown after being force-ably dismounted, before either player can mount back up. There should also be traps as an option too:

  • 1 trap that's targeted for groups, specifically, by being placed on the ground (like a supply trap), and the 2nd trap option, being an unblockable, throw-able trap. The ground-placed trap should cost more than the throw-able trap (so maybe something like 10 sups?), and the unblockable, throw-able trap, maybe 5 sups? In line with other throw-able traps.

  • I'd also love to see the original long distance leap of the warclaw mount return. The current short-distance leap, while still handy, isn't long enough in my opinion.

  • I'd also love to see pulling at gates be made easier - so the skill that engages with the gate, automatically makes the player start tugging at the gate if they have supply (rather than having to then press skill #1 countless times each time you want to pull at the gate) - and if you're being attacked whilst tugging at the gate, you can instantly disengage from the gate by moving away with the movement keys. Currently it's a bit tedious having to press multiple skills to both engage and disengage from the gate.

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