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Upcoming Warclaw bug fixes/changes


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@Beanna.6712 said:I would prefer if they don't waste any time on another trap and work on the breakbar idea right away because this is the best way to make players skills interact against mounts and prevent said mounts to triple dodge/leap over millions of CC unscathed. This mount should have been affected by CC from the get go, this is a big oversight.

I agree a dismount trap is mostly pointless. I also believe the breakbar is mostly a waste as well. Lets say it takes two or three hard CC shots to hit the breakbar. How many builds have a hard cc that can fire 2-3 hard CC shots in a second or two against a target moving much faster than them? It will still be easier to DPS the mount than land multiple hard CC shots on a mount.

Both these changes are essentially wasted developer effort. Any hard CC should dismount a player. No fancy UI development and doesn't unbalance the mount since hard CC had the same impact before mounts.

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@Cronos.6532 said:Could you also add a net throw Trick (AoE targetted throw like Target Painter) that prevents a large number of players from mounting up without putting them in combat?

Yes, this is something we've thought about. The main thing I don't like about it is the user experience of trying to use inventory items. Especially during conflict.

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@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@Cronos.6532 said:Could you also add a net throw Trick (AoE targetted throw like Target Painter) that prevents a large number of players from mounting up without putting them in combat?

Yes, this is something we've thought about. The main thing I don't like about it is the user experience of trying to use inventory items. Especially during conflict.

Could be a tactic too, like enemy mounts not allowed when you pull it.

I would also like to point out that PvE enemies have really good dismount skills, specially in PoF where the forged throw some bolas skill and instantly dismount players. You could add those to sentries and most npc guards too.

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@liurencija.2684 said:Making mounts cc'able would honestly be a very welcomed change in wvw, considering how currently it's possible to dodge all the initial spike from enemy groups without any tactical efforts and just one push them with full cd's.Also, could you change the leap on spacebar to a separate (dodge key) keybind instead? Some people would like to have a possibility to jump around while running mounted.

There's already an option to do just that, disable conditional mount movement I think it's called in the option menu. Let's you jump when you hit jump instead of either jumping or mount dodging depending on movement.

@Lonami.2987 said:

@"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:Hey all, just wanted to put out a quick note about some upcoming Warclaw changes.

Short-term
  • We're working on a fix for the issue where people can get stuck on their mount, and still have their 3 evades and such. There may be more than one bug that causes this, but we think we're getting the most egregious one.
  • We're going to remove the jump on dismount. It's one of the biggest things used to bypass walls/gates and it was faster to remove the jump rather than try to fix each of those individually.
  • Fix to the sitting in box achievement areas so you can mount up in them.

Medium to Long-term
  • Working on a dismount trap
  • Working on a new mounted skill to dismount other mounted players. This may also dismount yourself. We're still debating that. Feedback welcome.

Even Longer term
  • We're considering adding break-bars to the WvW Mount. It's still a big if, as this will also require UI considerations.

Edit: Added cat box achievement fix.

And yeah, that "dismount skill" should be some sort of grappling hook, where you pull enemies while launching yourself.I just had an image of two players being pulled off their mounts and colliding into each other, causing them both to be knocked down. Perfect.

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@Ahratan.1098 said:I don’t like the sound of the dismount trap or skill. The mount finally gave us a way to avoid pesky, cancer-spec gankers (perma stealthers and one shotters), and this change would undo it. Ofc gankers will just lay traps all over an area and wait for victims to troll - probably great fun for them, but super tedious for others.

One bug that actually needs fixing is stealth not being instantly removed when mounting.

I'll be honest I dont get this response.

It is an open world PvP zone. Engaging in PvP is the point, roamers, gankers, havoc groups all play their part, stopping those running back to the zerg is a valid tactic. Wait and group up with others before running back.

Sure it is frustrating to be ganked by the cheese builds when you have limited or no option to counter play, but the answer to that is asking ANet to actually balance the classes that are all cheese currently. Not make it so you cant be engage in actual PvP. That loses the sense of danger and risk around the corner to cater to carebears who only want to follow the zerg and arent really looking to PvP or improve themselves.

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Be careful what you chose to do with the mounts Ben. The forum is like a lobbying stage for various groups of players. Gankers and those playing cheese builds that 1 round players are lobbying very hard for multiple ways to dismount players. For the most part mounts as mobility enhancement to get to fights and join up with your groups/zergs is a good thing. It has given us more actions, less downtime.

You need to first and foremost fix any bugs and glitches associated with mounts. Players with triple dodges, warping on the mounts, etc.. are bad and need fixed asap. You should also consider revealing players when mounting, much like when you glide. This will scale back the impact of invis blob of fast moving, triple dodging mounts having an impact on fights. Things that negatively affect fights should be fixed.

I recommend giving mount skill 1 the ability to dismount players and take away stomping. Again, things that negatively affect fights should be discouraged. Allowing mount vs mount is a good thing, giving mounts the ability to dismount makes more sense than dismount traps. Think about who would want dismount traps, and how quickly it would make new players run away from WvW if the one thing that could get them back to their groups is nerfed to uselessness.

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@"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:Medium to Long-term

  • Working on a dismount trap
  • Working on a new mounted skill to dismount other mounted players. This may also dismount yourself. We're still debating that. Feedback welcome.

No need for a "new" skill, just use the chain-skill to fire a chain on a mounted player. If you activate pull chain once, you pull the player off the mount and dismount yourself too if successfull. Also put the other player and yourself infight - so none of them can mount again until getting OOC. Ez fix.

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I am coming at this from a havoc/roamer/scout perspective. Right now we have some pretty good balance between small group and zerg. Please consider this if the dismount is to be a ranged attack, wouldn't look at range being more than it is now with the #1 skill or keep close in sync. Would not like zerg play to get extra benefit from it. Also when we are talking about dismounting both that's if the attacker lands, a dodged dismount should dismount the attacker but leave the evaded player mounted, if they dodged.

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@borgs.6103 said:

@Hadi.6025 said:Reduce the mount health from 10k to 5000-4000

Mount hp is 12,096.

mine is 10.8k?

Full masteries?

Mount HP is affected by HP-increasing runes. I don't know if that's intended, bugged, or an oversight.

Even if that was intended, which I hope isn't, it should be changed so it no longer happens.At most only only the guild objective aura and effects from other player's skills should affect the Warclaw.Never food, enhancements or player gear.

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I took a semi-quick look through the thread just now. Along with my occasional looks through the forum and our subreddit, there's a question that hasn't been asked, or answered, that I'm itching to see a Dev response on. And I just can't find one.

Has anyone passed around the idea of making Warclaw a Raptor side-grade in Open World content?I play a fair bit of WvW myself. I have since launch. The work towards Warclaw wasn't too bad, and it changed how WvW works in a few ways that some may like and some dislike, but that's not really in the scope of this thread. Nonetheless, it's good to see it's still being tweaked.But Open World? I haven't seen anything on it. There, the mount is dreadfully slow, its movement ability is basically a dud and is barely able to cross a gap the player can. It also has no benefits from the WvW Warclaw Trait line, gaining neither extra speed nor its reduced movement ability stamina consumption. Its Dismount skill seems to be average from everything I can tell.

I understand it wasn't really built with Open World in mind. That was said from the start, so no surprises there. It would still be nice if it had the same movement skill distance as a Raptor, and increased that distance when Raptor Mastery 3 is learned, just to keep it from being able to get around those "gates" that it's needed to circumvent. Increased movement speed would also be nice, but one thing at a time.Now seemed like a good time to ask about it, and I want to see what people think. Personally, it seems like a harmless change, and now that the bulk of PvE players have gotten it, it's very unlikely to cause a spike in Queues. So I can't see much reason to keep its Open World state as it is other than "just because."

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@"Kayobi.5608" said:I took a semi-quick look through the thread just now. Along with my occasional looks through the forum and our subreddit, there's a question that hasn't been asked, or answered, that I'm itching to see a Dev response on. And I just can't find one.

Has anyone passed around the idea of making Warclaw a Raptor side-grade in Open World content?I play a fair bit of WvW myself. I have since launch. The work towards Warclaw wasn't too bad, and it changed how WvW works in a few ways that some may like and some dislike, but that's not really in the scope of this thread. Nonetheless, it's good to see it's still being tweaked.But Open World? I haven't seen anything on it. There, the mount is dreadfully slow, its movement ability is basically a dud and is barely able to cross a gap the player can. It also has no benefits from the WvW Warclaw Trait line, gaining neither extra speed nor its reduced movement ability stamina consumption. Its Dismount skill seems to be average from everything I can tell.

I understand it wasn't really built with Open World in mind. That was said from the start, so no surprises there. It would still be nice if it had the same movement skill distance as a Raptor, and increased that distance when Raptor Mastery 3 is learned, just to keep it from being able to get around those "gates" that it's needed to circumvent. Increased movement speed would also be nice, but one thing at a time.Now seemed like a good time to ask about it, and I want to see what people think. Personally, it seems like a harmless change, and now that the bulk of PvE players have gotten it, it's very unlikely to cause a spike in Queues. So I can't see much reason to keep its Open World state as it is other than "just because."

I think there's really no point in spending development time on replicating Raptor for Open World PvE. It would take away the uniqueness of Raptor.

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@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@Cronos.6532 said:Could you also add a net throw Trick (AoE targetted throw like Target Painter) that prevents a large number of players from mounting up without putting them in combat?

Yes, this is something we've thought about. The main thing I don't like about it is the user experience of trying to use inventory items. Especially during conflict.Item that lets you trigger special button skill with cooldown and stacks like the branded blood spears would do the trick.

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@Lonami.2987 said:

@"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:Hey all, just wanted to put out a quick note about some upcoming Warclaw changes.

Short-term
  • We're working on a fix for the issue where people can get stuck on their mount, and still have their 3 evades and such. There may be more than one bug that causes this, but we think we're getting the most egregious one.
  • We're going to remove the jump on dismount. It's one of the biggest things used to bypass walls/gates and it was faster to remove the jump rather than try to fix each of those individually.
  • Fix to the sitting in box achievement areas so you can mount up in them.

Medium to Long-term
  • Working on a dismount trap
  • Working on a new mounted skill to dismount other mounted players. This may also dismount yourself. We're still debating that. Feedback welcome.

Even Longer term
  • We're considering adding break-bars to the WvW Mount. It's still a big if, as this will also require UI considerations.

Edit: Added cat box achievement fix.

Nerfing mount movement is a short-term solution, but you will have to handle those terrain problems sooner or later, since multiple professions have been able to abuse them across the years (and some still do).

And yeah, that "dismount skill" should be some sort of grappling hook, where you pull enemies while launching yourself.

Anyway, I posted this at reddit a few days ago. It's a warclaw redesign (now called panther) plus two additional mount ideas. Might serve as an inspiration for where to go next:

Panther
  • Medium speed, medium health.
  • Skill 1: Leap at enemies. Finishes downed enemies. Dismounts the player.
  • Skill 2: Grappling Hook, pulls enemies on foot. Can be used to dismount enemy players, but you get dismounted as well. Telegraphed, and can be dodged. Consumes supply with every use.
  • Skill 3: Turn Disabling Hook on/off. Disables siege weapons, but locks you to them, forcing you to stick nearby. Dismounting or moving too far disables the hook. Consumes supply while it's active.
  • Dodge: Leap forward. Three endurance bars.
  • Special: Your mount can swim.

Dolyak
  • Slow speed, high health.
  • Skill 1: Charge forward moving the horns, launching enemies in your path. Finishes downed enemies. Dismounts the player.
  • Skill 2: Headbutt a nearby gate. Consumes supply with every use.
  • Skill 3: Turn Shield Bubble on/off. Can be used while moving. Consumes supply while it's active.
  • Dodge: Gain stability, and become invulnerable to dismounts. Two endurance bars.
  • Special: You can load supply pack into your dolyak, letting you deliver it wherever you want, just as a supply dolyak. The supply pack will be lost if you dismount.

Moa
  • Fast speed, low health.
  • Skill 1: Slash at a single target repeatedly. Finishes downed enemies. Dismounts the player.
  • Skill 2: Applies reveal and marks nearby enemies on the world map. Consumes supply with every use.
  • Skill 3: Turn stealth on/off. Consumes supply while it's active.
  • Dodge: Greatly increases your movement speed, roller beetle levels. One endurance bar.
  • Special: Your mount detects WvW traps.

Additional notes:
  • You can only equip one mount at once. To swap mounts, you need to go back to the respawn.
  • Dismounts in combat put the mount on cooldown for 30 seconds.
  • Trap redesign, now they have 20 charges each, consuming 1 every time an enemy steps inside. New trap, dismounts enemy players. Siege Disablers affect traps now. New trick lets you destroy traps.

I think mounts have a lot of potential for WvW, but they must become a significant part of combat, or they will never become a real part of WvW.

I like your idea for mount diversity but think they're too op for WvW. Mounts are just speed boost not an actual aspect to the experience. Kinda like gliding.. Its there but not needed. Plus you need POF expansion for mounts and Gw2 never really been a P2W kind of game. If anything they should allow you to trait mounts instead of having complete mastery. Like allowing your mount to run faster in ENEMY territory but at a sacrifice of health. Allowing different mount builds would be cool. So one mount is fast but only 2 dodges. Another has 3 dodges but is slow with low health and the last one more beefy with health but 1 dodge and medium speed.

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@Beanna.6712 said:I would prefer if they don't waste any time on another trap and work on the breakbar idea right away because this is the best way to make players skills interact against mounts and prevent said mounts to triple dodge/leap over millions of CC unscathed. This mount should have been affected by CC from the get go, this is a big oversight.

An no one would have touched it with a bargepole. Prime target or easy kill, more accurately...a sittin' duck.

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