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Updated Upcoming Warclaw bug fixes/changes


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@Karnasis.6892 said:

@"Kylden Ar.3724" said:

Sadly, the gankers and Locust Alliance are most vocal here (you're new so don't know the hidden politics). So they will whine till they win.

And who the hell is the Locust Alliance.... and why have I never heard of them before? And how do they have "so much power"? XD

They have another name that I can't use here.

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@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:Hey folks!

Medium to Long-term

  • Working on a new mounted skill to dismount other mounted players. This will also dismount yourself and put both players into combat briefly. - Rough prototype is done internally. Going to need fx and we're determining how to unlock it. Currently leaning towards a new mastery. Determining if it should have a cost, outside of burning the cooldown on use.

Thx BenP you are my only HOPE!!!

Btw this is IMO the critical change, i wanted to ask what do you mean with cost? what ideas of cost do you have in mind? or experimenting with it?

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@"Mechanix.9315" said:

Thx BenP you are my only HOPE!!!

Btw this is IMO the critical change, i wanted to ask what do you mean with cost? what ideas of cost do you have in mind? or experimenting with it?

I suspect they are working on a cost for it so you can't just constantly dismount people with no drawback. Either a very long cool down or maybe a supply cost, or something even heavier costed like gold/skirmish tickets. Though I think supply is what they will go for, which will force the loudest folks demanding the change to actually play the objectives (or I at least hope that's the idea)

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@"Randulf.7614" said:I assume the removal of jump on dismount had to be universal for pve and wvw? Shame to lose it from pve due to how unnatural it feels, but it's no biggie I guess

On a related note, since it's the Warclaw thread. Sorry if that looks picky, but the current dismount animation on Warclaw makes me physically uncomfortable - akin to the motion sickness effects of Camera Shake that I disabled soon into the game. The current jump is abrupt and "heavy", as if the character is affected by high values of gravity during the same regular dismount; but while the regular dismount follows the character smoothly, in the case of Warclaw, it sort of - jerks up and then drops down? The effect is either more or less jarring depending on how far you are zoomed in/out and at what angle to the ground the camera is.

Am I in the minority to feel that way, and that can be disregarded? Can something be done to make the transition smoother, like a literal fall-off downward curve towards the ground without the initial jump-ish movement?

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@Lishtenbird.2814 said:

@"Randulf.7614" said:I assume the removal of jump on dismount had to be universal for pve and wvw? Shame to lose it from pve due to how unnatural it feels, but it's no biggie I guess

On a related note, since it's the Warclaw thread. Sorry if that looks picky, but the current dismount animation on Warclaw makes me physically uncomfortable - akin to the motion sickness effects of Camera Shake that I disabled soon into the game. The current jump is abrupt and "heavy", as if the character is affected by high values of gravity during the same regular dismount; but while the regular dismount follows the character smoothly, in the case of Warclaw, it sort of - jerks up and then drops down? The effect is either more or less jarring depending on how far you are zoomed in/out and at what angle to the ground the camera is.

Am I in the minority to feel that way, and that can be disregarded? Can something be done to make the transition smoother, like a literal fall-off downward curve towards the ground without the initial jump-ish movement?

I don't feel that way as in game stuff doesn't trigger for me, but I can agree with the "abrupt and heavy". It doesn't feel very natural at all.

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@"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:Hey folks!

I wanted to make an updated version of this post, given the recent release and a few bits of extra info on the progress of some items.

Short-term

  • We're working on a fix for the issue where people can get stuck on their mount, and still have their 3 evades and such. There may be more than one bug that causes this, but we think we're getting the most egregious one. - Done 3/26
  • We're going to remove the jump on dismount. It's one of the biggest things used to bypass walls/gates and it was faster to remove the jump rather than try to fix each of those individually. - Partially Done 3/26 - We know there are several other bugs that allow people to get a similar effect to the automatic jump on dismount. It's so far been a hard bug to crack, but we're working on it.
  • ~~ Fix to the sitting in box achievement areas so you can mount up in them.~~ - Done 3/26
  • Mounts will no longer be able to be stealthed. We felt mounts provide enough value without stealth and, as many have noticed, there were several visual bugs with stealth involved. - Done 3/26
  • We know there are still several areas people can break in to keeps/towers or otherwise get to places you shouldn't be able to. If you find one, please don't post them on the forums. You are welcome to send them to me in a PM here or discord. We'll be fixing these as we find them. Many will probably be able to be fixed whenever we find a fix for the other ways to jump upon dismount.

Medium to Long-term

  • Working on a dismount trap - Rough prototype is done internally. Still experimenting with costs, area size, fx, etc.
  • Considering a dismount trick. Something that can be used with less planning and by players who don't have the mount. The user experience of using consumables during conflict is not the greatest, but it still may be useful for players to have.
  • Working on a new mounted skill to dismount other mounted players. This will also dismount yourself and put both players into combat briefly. - Rough prototype is done internally. Going to need fx and we're determining how to unlock it. Currently leaning towards a new mastery. Determining if it should have a cost, outside of burning the cooldown on use.

Even Longer term

  • We're considering adding break-bars to the WvW Mount. It's still a big if, as this requires UI considerations. - We have break-bars working internally with no UI. There is some debate about whether we'll still need this if we do some of the features from above. All this being said, there is a chance that UI considerations stop us from doing this. We could try some other solutions to make CC's usable against mounts.

Between a skill on the mount itself, a trap, and a trick to dismount players I think that should be fairly sufficient without adding a breakbar into the mix. Don't really have much else to add. I suggested a trap and a kind of "lasso" dismount skill prior. I think you guys are on top of it! Thank you.

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@Karnasis.6892 said:My god, we have had nothing but nerfs to the mount since day 1, for either because of bugs, or because of a majority of vocal feedback only taken from the forums.Yeah that's sort of how balancing happen. Or you do you want day 1 HoT specs and day 1 PoF specs back?

Anyway, I really, really wish that the dismount on skill 1 would happen. Because it's such simple improvement that can probably be implemented in less than a day. I dont like the stomp and think it should be replaced by this, but it's not a dealbreaker as such. I can live with a dismount being added on top and just grin through the obvious griefing issues of the stomp.

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Thank you Ben. This kind of update/communication is very appreciated.

When the warclaw will be fully fixed, maybe Arenanet can work on restoring its second ability (dash/jump forward) like it was before (in the beginning). In my opinion, it's pretty ridiculous/useless in its current state and kind of frustrating.

I understand the concern of not creating an overpowered mount, but be careful with player's frustration. Some of them will ask you the point of introducing a mount if it's permanently downgraded; and I'm not talking about adjustments. This is what a mount is: a clear advantage in military forces/strategy.

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@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@"Clownmug.8357" said:I still don't understand the necessity of the dismount skill. Is it that problematic for players to have to fight an opponent that can only run away or jump around in circles?

If that circle is a capture circle then yes.

There are still three dodges. And if someone can’t use those judiciously, on their way back to a Zerg, then that’s on them.

So you're saying the dismount skill can be dodged? Because I've seen nothing from ANET to indicate this. Please point me to that information.

I would not know if it can be dodged. But let me ask you how many skills are there that are un-dodge-able?

TLDR: only three CC effects can prevent dodges. But the skills that apply them are dodgable.

Considering this, I would have no reason to suspect that the mount wouldn’t be able to dodge said dismount skill.

And for now, the mount cannot be CC’d.

That's very interesting. I hope that is what ANET is planning, as I think if they want to introduce counterplay to mounts (dismount ability) then that too should have counterplay via dodging.

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@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@"Clownmug.8357" said:I still don't understand the necessity of the dismount skill. Is it that problematic for players to have to fight an opponent that can only run away or jump around in circles?

If that circle is a capture circle then yes.

There are still three dodges. And if someone can’t use those judiciously, on their way back to a Zerg, then that’s on them.

So you're saying the dismount skill can be dodged? Because I've seen nothing from ANET to indicate this. Please point me to that information.

I would not know if it can be dodged. But let me ask you how many skills are there that are un-dodge-able?

TLDR: only three CC effects can prevent dodges. But the skills that apply them are dodgable.

Considering this, I would have no reason to suspect that the mount wouldn’t be able to dodge said dismount skill.

And for now, the mount cannot be CC’d.

That's very interesting. I hope that is what ANET is planning, as I think if they want to introduce counterplay to mounts (dismount ability) then that too should have counterplay via dodging.

Agreed. Those that are upset about the mount being ‘nerfed’ need to remember that the mount introduction itself was a huge hit to a particular play style and while most people would agree that play style could be considered, let’s just say ‘toxic’, it was a play style that people enjoyed.

The mounts abilities led to some likely unintended consequences (as it’s abilities have been adjusted) which is being brought back into what is considered to be a somewhat tenable compromise.

The mount will still give speed and dodges allowing people to get back to the Zerg faster and safer than before the mount, but it won’t be a ‘free pass’,

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@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@"Clownmug.8357" said:I still don't understand the necessity of the dismount skill. Is it that problematic for players to have to fight an opponent that can only run away or jump around in circles?

If that circle is a capture circle then yes.

There are still three dodges. And if someone can’t use those judiciously, on their way back to a Zerg, then that’s on them.

So you're saying the dismount skill can be dodged? Because I've seen nothing from ANET to indicate this. Please point me to that information.

I would not know if it can be dodged. But let me ask you how many skills are there that are un-dodge-able?

TLDR: only three CC effects can prevent dodges. But the skills that apply them are dodgable.

Considering this, I would have no reason to suspect that the mount wouldn’t be able to dodge said dismount skill.

And for now, the mount cannot be CC’d.

That's very interesting. I hope that is what ANET is planning, as I think if they want to introduce counterplay to mounts (dismount ability) then that too should have counterplay via dodging.

Agreed. Those that are upset about the mount being ‘nerfed’ need to remember that the mount introduction itself was a huge hit to a particular play style and while most people would agree that play style could be considered, let’s just say ‘toxic’, it was a play style that people enjoyed.

The mounts abilities led to some likely unintended consequences (as it’s abilities have been adjusted) which is being brought back into what is considered to be a somewhat tenable compromise.

The mount will still give speed and dodges allowing people to get back to the Zerg faster and safer than before the mount, but it won’t be a ‘free pass’,

Not enjoyed by the poor soul on the receiving end of it!

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@yorick.1305 said:

@"Clownmug.8357" said:I still don't understand the necessity of the dismount skill. Is it that problematic for players to have to fight an opponent that can only run away or jump around in circles?

If that circle is a capture circle then yes.

There are still three dodges. And if someone can’t use those judiciously, on their way back to a Zerg, then that’s on them.

So you're saying the dismount skill can be dodged? Because I've seen nothing from ANET to indicate this. Please point me to that information.

I would not know if it can be dodged. But let me ask you how many skills are there that are un-dodge-able?

TLDR: only three CC effects can prevent dodges. But the skills that apply them are dodgable.

Considering this, I would have no reason to suspect that the mount wouldn’t be able to dodge said dismount skill.

And for now, the mount cannot be CC’d.

That's very interesting. I hope that is what ANET is planning, as I think if they want to introduce counterplay to mounts (dismount ability) then that too should have counterplay via dodging.

Agreed. Those that are upset about the mount being ‘nerfed’ need to remember that the mount introduction itself was a huge hit to a particular play style and while most people would agree that play style could be considered, let’s just say ‘toxic’, it was a play style that people enjoyed.

The mounts abilities led to some likely unintended consequences (as it’s abilities have been adjusted) which is being brought back into what is considered to be a somewhat tenable compromise.

The mount will still give speed and dodges allowing people to get back to the Zerg faster and safer than before the mount, but it won’t be a ‘free pass’,

Not enjoyed by the poor soul on the receiving end of it!

?

Can’t argue that.

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@"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:Thank you for always doing such a good job at communicating, Ben. Overall I find the Warclaw to be pretty decently balanced, but I would like to pass on three personal wishes for changes. Just my opinions, of course.

-When using a waypoint, restrict Warclaw access for ~15-30 seconds. Excluding Desert BL, the maps are quite small. Reinforcements are far too easy to send if there is a nearby waypoint, and deaths are trivialized by respawning being less of a punishment now.-Normalize travel speed to the baseline speed when in an enemy territory. When the dismount skill becomes a feature, the increased speed will provide too much of an advantage to those within their own territory.-Prevent Warclaw stomps from rallying allied players. This provides a healthy drawback for a very powerful skill.

I like your second suggestion suggestion, but the first and third suggestion I do not like. Just my opinion.

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@"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:-Normalize travel speed to the baseline speed when in an enemy territory. When the dismount skill becomes a feature, the increased speed will provide too much of an advantage to those within their own territory.

Edit: What do you consider "baseline": speed on foot or speed on warclaw in own territory?

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@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Karnasis.6892 said:My god, we have had nothing but nerfs to the mount since day 1, for either because of bugs, or because of a majority of vocal feedback only taken from the forums.Yeah that's sort of how balancing happen. Or you do you want day 1 HoT specs and day 1 PoF specs back?

Anyway, I really, really wish that the dismount on skill 1 would happen. Because it's such simple improvement that can probably be implemented in less than a day. I dont like the stomp and think it should be replaced by this, but it's not a dealbreaker as such. I can live with a dismount being added on top and just grin through the obvious griefing issues of the stomp.

But why does a mount need balancing to the degree that we have to nerf everything? The jumps/evades I understood because it allowed cheese into large objectives. Fine, go for it. But then there was the 10 person auto stomp (which I agree with because 10 is a bit much). And then nerfs were called because roamers couldn't get fights anymore, hence the dismount skill, and also the stealth changes. Folks are STILL calling for nerfs. It's absurd. The state the mount is in currently is fine, I enjoy it the way it is. But if it gets nerfed to it's run speed like some folks are looking for, or increased cool downs after certain actions are taken (waypointing was a suggestion) or contesting on mounts, why even bother implementing all these changes? It makes the mount pointless overall and a waste of time and we might as well have the devs go back to the drawing board or remove it all together (which I'd rather not see).

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@Karnasis.6892 said:

@Karnasis.6892 said:My god, we have had nothing but nerfs to the mount since day 1, for either because of bugs, or because of a majority of vocal feedback only taken from the forums.Yeah that's sort of how balancing happen. Or you do you want day 1 HoT specs and day 1 PoF specs back?

Anyway, I really, really wish that the dismount on skill 1 would happen. Because it's such simple improvement that can probably be implemented in less than a day. I dont like the stomp and think it should be replaced by this, but it's not a dealbreaker as such. I can live with a dismount being added on top and just grin through the obvious griefing issues of the stomp.

But why does a mount need balancing to the degree that we have to nerf everything? The jumps/evades I understood because it allowed cheese into large objectives. Fine, go for it. But then there was the 10 person auto stomp (which I agree with because 10 is a bit much). And then nerfs were called because roamers couldn't get fights anymore, hence the dismount skill, and also the stealth changes. Folks are STILL calling for nerfs. It's absurd. The state the mount is in currently is fine, I enjoy it the way it is. But if it gets nerfed to it's run speed like some folks are looking for, or increased cool downs after certain actions are taken (waypointing was a suggestion) or contesting on mounts, why even bother implementing all these changes? It makes the mount pointless overall and a waste of time and we might as well have the devs go back to the drawing board or remove it all together (which I'd rather not see).You do realize it's the exact same reason people keep saying delete the mesmer, right? It doesnt matter how much you nerf it.

Also what people are posting is suggestions, ideas and desires - not actual nerfs that Anet has made and implemented or even suggested in the OP. You're nerf raging over nothing.

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@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

  • Considering a dismount trick. Something that can be used with less planning and by players who don't have the mount. The user experience of using consumables during conflict is not the greatest, but it still may be useful for players to have.Have you considered a Special Action button? Usable item which enables it, maybe in a determined period of time like some Sidequest items.

We're very careful with special action button stuff that isn't tied to a specific map area. We don't want to get ourselves into a position where there are special action button conflicts.

Its WvW, there should be conflict.

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