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Updated Upcoming Warclaw bug fixes/changes


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@Anput.4620 said:

@"Clownmug.8357" said:I still don't understand the necessity of the dismount skill. Is it that problematic for players to have to fight an opponent that can only run away or jump around in circles?

If that circle is a capture circle then yes.

There are still three dodges. And if someone can’t use those judiciously, on their way back to a Zerg, then that’s on them.

So you're saying the dismount skill can be dodged? Because I've seen nothing from ANET to indicate this. Please point me to that information.

I would not know if it can be dodged. But let me ask you how many skills are there that are un-dodge-able?

TLDR: only three CC effects can prevent dodges. But the skills that apply them are dodgable.

Considering this, I would have no reason to suspect that the mount wouldn’t be able to dodge said dismount skill.

And for now, the mount cannot be CC’d.

That's very interesting. I hope that is what ANET is planning, as I think if they want to introduce counterplay to mounts (dismount ability) then that too should have counterplay via dodging.

Agreed. Those that are upset about the mount being ‘nerfed’ need to remember that the mount introduction itself was a huge hit to a particular play style and while most people would agree that play style could be considered, let’s just say ‘toxic’, it was a play style that people enjoyed.

The mounts abilities led to some likely unintended consequences (as it’s abilities have been adjusted) which is being brought back into what is considered to be a somewhat tenable compromise.

The mount will still give speed and dodges allowing people to get back to the Zerg faster and safer than before the mount, but it won’t be a ‘free pass’,

Not enjoyed by the poor soul on the receiving end of it!

Give me a PvP game where it is a very enjoyable experience to die.

I tought there might be a WoD Vampire MMO once upon a time...

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@Redponey.8352 said:

@"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:Only a quick update on mount stuff this week: We're adding a 5 second cool down on the Warclaw Mount skill if you dismount/are dismounted for any reason.

WvW only I assume? I noticed the jump off dismount change affected pve too.

Well.... it is a WvW Mount. That’s likely why the coding carries over to keep it different and thus, easier to code changes.

And... it’s a WvW Mount. Honestly, it offers nothing to PvE minus a skin.

All the mounts are fundamentally the same. Warclaw can't be CC'd because the pve mounts it's cloned from have their own special "freedom of movement" ruleset

ho wait they didnt plan to put mount in WvW at the start of developping PoF? LUL

I don't think most of Anet thinks about WvW at all. We're a sideshow and I'm glad anyone on staff cares or notices us. Doing so likely takes them far from the company spotlight.

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@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:Hey folks!

I wanted to make an updated version of this post, given the recent release and a few bits of extra info on the progress of some items.

Short-term

  • We're working on a fix for the issue where people can get stuck on their mount, and still have their 3 evades and such. There may be more than one bug that causes this, but we think we're getting the most egregious one. - Done 3/26
  • We're going to remove the jump on dismount. It's one of the biggest things used to bypass walls/gates and it was faster to remove the jump rather than try to fix each of those individually. - Partially Done 3/26 - We know there are several other bugs that allow people to get a similar effect to the automatic jump on dismount. It's so far been a hard bug to crack, but we're working on it.
  • ~~ Fix to the sitting in box achievement areas so you can mount up in them.~~ - Done 3/26
  • Mounts will no longer be able to be stealthed. We felt mounts provide enough value without stealth and, as many have noticed, there were several visual bugs with stealth involved. - Done 3/26
  • We know there are still several areas people can break in to keeps/towers or otherwise get to places you shouldn't be able to. If you find one, please don't post them on the forums. You are welcome to send them to me in a PM here or discord. We'll be fixing these as we find them. Many will probably be able to be fixed whenever we find a fix for the other ways to jump upon dismount.
  • Adding a 5 second recharge on the Warclaw Mount skill if you're dismounted for any reason. This includes damage, using the engage skill or using the dismount skill.

Medium to Long-term

  • Working on a dismount trap - Rough prototype is done internally. Still experimenting with costs, area size, fx, etc.
  • Considering a dismount trick. Something that can be used with less planning and by players who don't have the mount. The user experience of using consumables during conflict is not the greatest, but it still may be useful for players to have.
  • Working on a new mounted skill to dismount other mounted players. This will also dismount yourself and put both players into combat briefly. - Rough prototype is done internally. Going to need fx and we're determining how to unlock it. Currently leaning towards a new mastery. Determining if it should have a cost, outside of burning the cooldown on use.

Even Longer term

  • We're considering adding break-bars to the WvW Mount. It's still a big if, as this requires UI considerations. - We have break-bars working internally with no UI. There is some debate about whether we'll still need this if we do some of the features from above. All this being said, there is a chance that UI considerations stop us from doing this. We could try some other solutions to make CC's usable against mounts.

Edit: Added info about the dismount recharge

Really feel like if you made an update, to add it to the general weekly update.

I had half a mind to contact the manufacturer of a mouse I use because the button for warclaw was being unresponsive. Only to find out that there was a stealth update for Warclaw mount/remount ICD.

Is it too much to ask for detailed patch notes?

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@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:Hey folks!

I wanted to make an updated version of this post, given the recent release and a few bits of extra info on the progress of some items.

There is something in program in order to fix the bug that that afflicts daredevils and thieves?When Daredevil dismount, his third endurance bar is empty (so basically he have same dodges as a normal thief) and all thieves (core/daredevil) lose the 3 initiative points from Preparedness.This leads to prefer to move around the map without mount.

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@Loosmaster.8263 said:When did they sneak in the 5 sec CD on dismount? I don't see it in any patch notes.

Adding a 5 second recharge on the Warclaw Mount skill if you're dismounted for any reason. This includes damage, using the engage skill or using the dismount skill.

Also, I am getting some random bug where I cannot dismount sometimes or where 1 goes on cooldown but I do not dismount.

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@DemonSeed.3528 said:

@Loosmaster.8263 said:When did they sneak in the 5 sec CD on dismount? I don't see it in any patch notes.

Adding a 5 second recharge on the Warclaw Mount skill if you're dismounted for any reason. This includes damage, using the engage skill or using the dismount skill.

Also, I am getting some random bug where I cannot dismount sometimes or where 1 goes on cooldown but I do not dismount.

I see it here but it didn't make it to the patch notes...

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The break bar option would be interesting if applied to siege in general. I've often questioned how easy it is to pull users off siege. However, that would likely go awry with something as mobile as a mount. If you think about it, it flies in the face of physics as well to some degree. It's always easier to dismount a moving target versus a static one.

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OK, so on the 'we know there are places you can jump into towers etc.' one... How do we report players that are abusing this, or do we just take the hit and not bother trying to defend/upgrade certain objectives? I had an entertaining conversation with someone that I watched do this today and as far as they're concerned, it's fine until Anet fix it so we just have to put up with it.Is this really the case?

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Just reposting this here to readd points:There are inherent problems with the mount.

  1. Immune to CC (by far one of the biggest problems)
  2. 10k Hp Buffer (there is no need for an hp buffer, if anything allow to buffer/absorb only 1 hit from anything before getting dismounted) When this is changed, mounts can be reverted to contest points as they will not really present a problem any longer)
  3. 3 dodges (this needs to be set to 1 by default, and with a max of 2 when traited in mastery. Not 3)
  4. Able to get into towers/keeps via terrain (this will be a constant problem with no fix until they patch the way dismount works - I rather they don't mutilate terrain visually)
  5. Able to easily perma contest keeps, no need for stealth (just run up to a keep and laugh as the guards do nothing to you while you contest. Quickly make your exit and return in 2-3m to rinse and repeat).
  6. Skill 1 is still very buggy, sometimes it will go off cooldown and you cannot dismount due to anything like small bumps etc that put the skill on cooldown and you have to use your mount/dismount key that you set in hotkeys
  7. One of the other bigger problems NO ONE ever brings up about mounts are one shots using mounts. Yes, one shots using mounts. Many classes can do this, here is one example, you will see it being used a few times in this video:

There was also another video of a thief using it but the video was deleted already, as you can guess it was done via assassin signet etc. This is not something exclusive to thief or soulbeast, just use your imagination and you'll know that other classes can do it as well. Even though the video I have shown here is during NDS week, it was always possible to do so since the release of the mount and not once has it ever been brought up. [Please do not bring up OPness of sbeast, that is for another thread that you can post this video to].

There is a lot of work that needs to be done on the warclaw still, no bones about it.The only thing I can agree with the usage of the mount for now, is only speed set to perma swiftness speed of what a player can achieve with their class in any territory. Sniff is actually alright and quite balanced, I use this skill quite often. The chain pull should be repurposed into the dismount skill , and skill 1 should be kept as the stomp. There still needs to be methods for melee users and also non-pof owners to dismount mounts.

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@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:Even Longer term

  • We're considering adding break-bars to the WvW Mount. It's still a big if, as this requires UI considerations. - We have break-bars working internally with no UI. There is some debate about whether we'll still need this if we do some of the features from above. All this being said, there is a chance that UI considerations stop us from doing this. We could try some other solutions to make CC's usable against mounts.

If I remember correctly, the exalted armors from auric basin meta event already give the player a breakbar, with the UI bar located over the 1-5 skills where class F1-F5 skills are usually located. Considering mounts remove all class related skills while mounted, I don't see why it would require special UI considerations, specially when the UI already exists and since you guys already have the breakbar system working internally I don't see why this is classified as a Even Longer term change. :/

The only way I see it becoming a problem is if its a change that somehow also affects mounts in PvE, but then again there is already a split between PvE and WvW, with the warclaw turning into a regular mount with 2 dodges and no WvW skills in PvE.

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@Creaitov.6328 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:Even Longer term
  • We're considering adding break-bars to the WvW Mount. It's still a
    big
    if, as this requires UI considerations. - We have break-bars working internally with no UI. There is some debate about whether we'll still need this if we do some of the features from above. All this being said, there is a chance that UI considerations stop us from doing this. We could try some other solutions to make CC's usable against mounts.

If I remember correctly, the exalted armors from auric basin meta event already give the player a breakbar, with the UI bar located over the 1-5 skills where class F1-F5 skills are usually located. Considering mounts remove all class related skills while mounted, I don't see why it would require special
UI considerations
, specially when the UI already exists and since you guys already have the breakbar system working internally I don't see why this is classified as a Even Longer term change. :/

The only way I see it becoming a problem is if its a change that somehow also affects mounts in PvE, but then again there is already a split between PvE and WvW, with the warclaw turning into a regular mount with 2 dodges and no WvW skills in PvE.Not to mention it wouldnt really need a breakbar. Should be a much simpler way to do this - just let mounts be CCd and apply a special mount stab boon that when depleted (2 or 3 stacks maybe) makes the mount dismount.

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@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:Even Longer term
  • We're considering adding break-bars to the WvW Mount. It's still a
    big
    if, as this requires UI considerations. - We have break-bars working internally with no UI. There is some debate about whether we'll still need this if we do some of the features from above. All this being said, there is a chance that UI considerations stop us from doing this. We could try some other solutions to make CC's usable against mounts.

If I remember correctly, the exalted armors from auric basin meta event already give the player a breakbar, with the UI bar located over the 1-5 skills where class F1-F5 skills are usually located. Considering mounts remove all class related skills while mounted, I don't see why it would require special
UI considerations
, specially when the UI already exists and since you guys already have the breakbar system working internally I don't see why this is classified as a Even Longer term change. :/

The only way I see it becoming a problem is if its a change that somehow also affects mounts in PvE, but then again there is already a split between PvE and WvW, with the warclaw turning into a regular mount with 2 dodges and no WvW skills in PvE.Not to mention it wouldnt really need a breakbar. Should be a much simpler way to do this - just let mounts be CCd and apply a special mount stab boon that when depleted (2 or 3 stacks maybe) makes the mount dismount.

Well that is another way to solve the problem, but a little more favorable to the mount though. If the mount can be CC'd then it gives you a short time window to burst it down, problem is you still have to burst the mount down and depending on the CC duration/the power of your burst it may be not enough. I'm not even considering dismounting by CC alone unless you have multiple people because dealing with 2-3 stacks of pulsing stab can be pretty hard (can be compared to trying to CC a warrior in balanced stance lol good luck).

I'd rather see the breakbar system implemented. Should be easier (everything needed already exists) and is a lot more straightforward. 1 hard CC = no mount. Multiple soft/"condi"-CCs = no mount in a couple seconds.

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@"Creaitov.6328" said:I'd rather see the breakbar system implemented. Should be easier (everything needed already exists) and is a lot more straightforward. 1 hard CC = no mount. Multiple soft/"condi"-CCs = no mount in a couple seconds.Breakbar would have to be scaled way higher than that, given the amount of CC players can throw around.

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@Hyper Cutter.9376 said:

@"Creaitov.6328" said:I'd rather see the breakbar system implemented. Should be easier (everything needed already exists) and is a lot more straightforward. 1 hard CC = no mount. Multiple soft/"condi"-CCs = no mount in a couple seconds.Breakbar would have to be scaled
way
higher than that, given the amount of CC players can throw around.

And how many of those CCs can you land reliably on a warclaw?

If you have to use a teleport in order to land the dismounting CC, that's already 2 cds you burned to get a dismount. I think a fairly weak breakbar is fine. Maybe make it hard enough so it survives the weak .25s dazes (that work more like interrupts anyways) but gets broken by any hard CC that lasts 1.5s and longer.

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No matter what they do to make changes to dismount a player, they will still scream they have to slot CC skills that would otherwise be used to one shot a normal player off/no mount to begin with.

The vocal minority that are against the mount will never be happy until it's rendered uterrly useless in WvW worse than the PvE counterpart or it's removed in it's entirety.

I can go on with more but you're more than welcome to revisit the description of WvW on your own...

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@Hyper Cutter.9376 said:

@"Creaitov.6328" said:I'd rather see the breakbar system implemented. Should be easier (everything needed already exists) and is a lot more straightforward. 1 hard CC = no mount. Multiple soft/"condi"-CCs = no mount in a couple seconds.Breakbar would have to be scaled
way
higher than that, given the amount of CC players can throw around.

-

@Loosmaster.8263 said:No matter what they do to make changes to dismount a player, they will still scream they have to slot CC skills that would otherwise be used to one shot a normal player off/no mount to begin with.

Ok make up your minds people. Is there too much CC available so you need a super strong break bar or is there so little CC that adding a breakbar would make people cry because they have to slot in CC skills?

In any case, remember dismounting a player rewards you with a CC on its own (knockdown) so unless you're using a really long stun like headbutt you end up with pretty much the same result.

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One suggestion I think would make the (imo often annoying) mount cooldown arguably more appropriate is to only have a cooldown if you end up in combat, got dismounted by the trick that was mentioned or if you used your engage skill. I often find myself mounting up, realising there is a banner nearby or that I could use some supply. The interaction dismounts me and then I walk for a couple of seconds that feel like eternity. Just a suggestion.

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@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

  • Working on a new mounted skill to dismount other mounted players. This will also dismount yourself and put both players into combat briefly. - Rough prototype is done internally. Going to need fx and we're determining how to unlock it. Currently leaning towards a new mastery. Determining if it should have a cost, outside of burning the cooldown on use.

Any ETA on this skill, please?

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