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Updated Upcoming Warclaw bug fixes/changes


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Dodge should work to avoid the projectile... that's the point of dodge. If you don't like it, now you know how everyone feels playing against high dodge professions.

That being said... I think the Rider should be the missile :D -- plays nicely with the dismount mechanic.

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@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:Hey folks. 1 quick update here. The thing we're furthest along with is the new skill. Outside of a bit more testing, we're in line for some art requests.

Current design is that the 4 skill will require unlocking a new mount mastery. After that, it's a just a missile attack that if hits, dismounts your target and yourself. I can't give you a time frame yet, unfortunately.

Sounds good, but it will just be dodged if you have no way to bait any dodges so it should be unnavoidable, also, it won't solve the problem of not being able to catch up to poeple to use it in the first place.

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I suggest the following:

Projectile is highly visible, ideally slow enough to realistically dodge.

Costs 5 supply to fire.

EditAfter reading through some of the comments I'd also like to add a few things. A dismount skill, regardless of whether it dismounts both players, still heavily favors those with greater numbers. Although Mounts have 3 dodges and move fairly quickly, I think the skill should have enough visibility to be avoidable and potentially with a cost other than a cooldown. If the cooldown is low enough, I believe it should cost supply both to promote players to carry it and to prevent a spam of attempts at dismounting someone in the event there are multiple players chasing a single player.

WvW isn't meant for 1v1's so you should expect to be outnumbered. However, with Mounts now a thing, I think we should consider how they benefit solo players and how to maintain those benefits without giving them free reign like they currently have. Many things cannot dismount a player if they don't want to be unless it's an entire zerg chasing them. While it's good that Mounts allow solo players to travel with less fear for being "ganked" as they can better choose what fights to engage in, it also promotes combat avoidance because players know how difficult it is to be dismounted.

That's why I believe this new dismount skill should be realistically avoidable, but also reliable enough to hit people with. Something that cannot be dodged or something that's so fast it's nearly instant would just make playing solo/small scale even worse than it already is. Even if it has a moderate cooldown, I still believe making it cost supply would be best.

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@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:I suggest the following:

Projectile is highly visible, ideally slow enough to realistically dodge.

Costs 5 supply to fire.

Projectile should be basically hitscan and cost no supply to fire as engaging in combat doesn't give you any inherent advantage on its own.

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@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:Hey folks. 1 quick update here. The thing we're furthest along with is the new skill. Outside of a bit more testing, we're in line for some art requests.

Current design is that the 4 skill will require unlocking a new mount mastery. After that, it's a just a missile attack that if hits, dismounts your target and yourself. I can't give you a time frame yet, unfortunately.

Cool, I appreciate that.Could you also fix Weaver mount bug please? Its really annoying and often confuses lots of eles. Thank you in advance :)

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@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:Hey folks. 1 quick update here. The thing we're furthest along with is the new skill. Outside of a bit more testing, we're in line for some art requests.

Current design is that the 4 skill will require unlocking a new mount mastery. After that, it's a just a missile attack that if hits, dismounts your target and yourself. I can't give you a time frame yet, unfortunately.

Please don't do this. The hole dug on this feature is already deep enough. Rollback mounts entirely to just only speed adjustments. Take away the mount HP and make them dismount on a connected CC.

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@Anput.4620 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:Hey folks. 1 quick update here. The thing we're furthest along with is the new skill. Outside of a bit more testing, we're in line for some art requests.

Current design is that the 4 skill will require unlocking a new mount mastery. After that, it's a just a missile attack that if hits, dismounts your target and yourself. I can't give you a time frame yet, unfortunately.

Sounds good, but it will just be dodged if you have no way to bait any dodges so it should be unnavoidable, also, it won't solve the problem of not being able to catch up to poeple to use it in the first place.

If you're being attacked by multiple mounted gankers, you can only dodge so many missiles, unless they're all dumb enough to fire at you at the same time.

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@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

@Kilamanjaro.2705 said:Maybe they'll go to pvP where they belong :)

WvW isnt a place to PvP anymore?your comment makes me sad.

@Cal Cohen.3527 @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065"Guys, is this how you want WvW to be?

If people want to duel, they dismount and duel. If they would rather get into bigger fights they ignore you (unless you have "sic em").win win win imho, I've always viewed the permastealth, clone fest, one-shot people as a problem.I have been on servers in the past where seperation from a group on most builds meant sitting in camp and waiting for 4 or 5 to travel with because of the number of gankers haunting the spawns. I personally find the current setup much more enjoyable than _surprise- burst burst burst- oh chit he's alive- stealth run run evade evade evade stealth hide in camp-

That's apart of open world pvp.There should be dangers like that. There should be incentive to pvp above all else.

I love Battlefield for the same reasons, at any moment I can die.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying anyone's opinion is better, I definitely see your point, but, stand by my own as well. Perhaps the "dismount trap" will be a happy middle ground making the "gank" cost something more than time.The added load to supplies may be interesting too as it will make the gankers need supply for their traps, which will add a whole new element to them of having to take the occasional camp for resuppy or risk generating salt by leeching off the garri.

What does ganking have to do with dismounting?Dismount mechanics would heavily favor zergers than anything.. then small man roaming teams.. Gankers would be at the bottom of the food chain.

The main reason we need dismounting abilities is simply due to balance.

Balance between what?

Take Celestial gear as an example, extremely time gated to make, has no real use for PvE which means the gear is probably best suited for WvW and yet due to the CC immunity, 3 dodges and extra movement available its literally impossible for a person in Celestial gear to dismount someone.Now what if that person had 30 odd characters and several sets of Celestial gear dedicated to WvW AND missed out on the gear reset due to celestial being a core stat?Theres not even a chance to adapt.Its like 6 years worth of building up characters was just rendered moot and a huuuuuuuuuuuuuge waste of time.

I understand we can both like different things too.

Wut? Because you specced for celestial (and yes, I hate timegates) you are then entitled to dismount people because you can't do enough damage to the mount? Or did I read this wrong? Also there are more avenues to get celestial through stat selection ascended gear in WvW. While it doesn't abolish all of the timegates it still greatly increased the pace to which you can gain them.
And there is a chance to adapt: run something more burst heavy (condi or power) than the celestial stat
. It's not like the mount can cleanse condis...

Or is that not balanced?

D:

Yes, you read this wrong. Way off in fact.

Running full berserker only on an 11k hp elementalist isnt a logical response either.

Celestial is an example, crusader would be another good one.

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@Anput.4620 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:Hey folks. 1 quick update here. The thing we're furthest along with is the new skill. Outside of a bit more testing, we're in line for some art requests.

Current design is that the 4 skill will require unlocking a new mount mastery. After that, it's a just a missile attack that if hits, dismounts your target and yourself. I can't give you a time frame yet, unfortunately.

it will just be dodged if you have no way to bait any dodges so it should be unnavoidable, also, it won't solve the problem of not being able to catch up to poeple to use it in the first place.

I agree but cringe at the idea of undodgable attacks

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What are all these people talking about that want to nerf Warclaw? If anything, I think it should be buffed. 20% more hp, 50% stronger engage with bleed, and like 15% faster. This new change, frankly, will probably drive me back away from WvW. Which is a pity because it became fun again with the Warclaw negating all the stupid ganking going on.

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@ponYthink.9872 said:What are all these people talking about that want to nerf Warclaw? If anything, I think it should be buffed. 20% more hp, 50% stronger engage with bleed, and like 15% faster. This new change, frankly, will probably drive me back away from WvW. Which is a pity because it became fun again with the Warclaw negating all the stupid ganking going on.

Define “stupid ganking” please. You can’t ask for buffs or nerfs without giving explicit reasons.

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@ponYthink.9872 said:What are all these people talking about that want to nerf Warclaw? If anything, I think it should be buffed. 20% more hp, 50% stronger engage with bleed, and like 15% faster. This new change, frankly, will probably drive me back away from WvW. Which is a pity because it became fun again with the Warclaw negating all the stupid ganking going on.

Ganking is only worse since Warclaw cameYou didint notice cuz you were too busy chasing towers.

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@ponYthink.9872 said:What are all these people talking about that want to nerf Warclaw? If anything, I think it should be buffed. 20% more hp, 50% stronger engage with bleed, and like 15% faster. This new change, frankly, will probably drive me back away from WvW. Which is a pity because it became fun again with the Warclaw negating all the stupid ganking going on.

Why buff warclaw? If things continue the way they are your going to be ganked even more. 1 player dismounts you, the others leap ontop of you already doing up to 5k per leap. Youl have to blow your dodges on evading the leaps, your completely open and defenseless to what comes after.

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@LetoII.3782 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:Hey folks. 1 quick update here. The thing we're furthest along with is the new skill. Outside of a bit more testing, we're in line for some art requests.

Current design is that the 4 skill will require unlocking a new mount mastery. After that, it's a just a missile attack that if hits, dismounts your target and yourself. I can't give you a time frame yet, unfortunately.

it will just be dodged if you have no way to bait any dodges so it should be unnavoidable, also, it won't solve the problem of not being able to catch up to poeple to use it in the first place.

I agree but cringe at the idea of undodgable attacks

That's why i said basically hitscan, doesn't need to be undodgable if it takes 0.2s to get to the enemy from any range lol, like many pistols/revolvers in FPS. Or just make it undodgable, or just remove dodges from the thing.

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@"ponYthink.9872" said:What are all these people talking about that want to nerf Warclaw? If anything, I think it should be buffed. 20% more hp, 50% stronger engage with bleed, and like 15% faster. This new change, frankly, will probably drive me back away from WvW. Which is a pity because it became fun again with the Warclaw negating all the stupid ganking going on.

If you need buffs to Warclaw, there may be other problems on your end that need to be addressed.

Maybe it's just better to remove Warclaw at this stage and implement "tp to Commander" which will tp player randomly within 15-20k radius of comm. This will eradicate encounters and swiftness can maintain importance in builds.

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@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Kilamanjaro.2705 said:Maybe they'll go to pvP where they belong :)

WvW isnt a place to PvP anymore?your comment makes me sad.

@Cal Cohen.3527 @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065"Guys, is this how you want WvW to be?

If people want to duel, they dismount and duel. If they would rather get into bigger fights they ignore you (unless you have "sic em").win win win imho, I've always viewed the permastealth, clone fest, one-shot people as a problem.I have been on servers in the past where seperation from a group on most builds meant sitting in camp and waiting for 4 or 5 to travel with because of the number of gankers haunting the spawns. I personally find the current setup much more enjoyable than _surprise- burst burst burst- oh chit he's alive- stealth run run evade evade evade stealth hide in camp-

That's apart of open world pvp.There should be dangers like that. There should be incentive to pvp above all else.

I love Battlefield for the same reasons, at any moment I can die.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying anyone's opinion is better, I definitely see your point, but, stand by my own as well. Perhaps the "dismount trap" will be a happy middle ground making the "gank" cost something more than time.The added load to supplies may be interesting too as it will make the gankers need supply for their traps, which will add a whole new element to them of having to take the occasional camp for resuppy or risk generating salt by leeching off the garri.

What does ganking have to do with dismounting?Dismount mechanics would heavily favor zergers than anything.. then small man roaming teams.. Gankers would be at the bottom of the food chain.

The main reason we need dismounting abilities is simply due to balance.

Balance between what?

Take Celestial gear as an example, extremely time gated to make, has no real use for PvE which means the gear is probably best suited for WvW and yet due to the CC immunity, 3 dodges and extra movement available its literally impossible for a person in Celestial gear to dismount someone.Now what if that person had 30 odd characters and several sets of Celestial gear dedicated to WvW AND missed out on the gear reset due to celestial being a core stat?Theres not even a chance to adapt.Its like 6 years worth of building up characters was just rendered moot and a huuuuuuuuuuuuuge waste of time.

I understand we can both like different things too.

Wut? Because you specced for celestial (and yes, I hate timegates) you are then entitled to dismount people because you can't do enough damage to the mount? Or did I read this wrong? Also there are more avenues to get celestial through stat selection ascended gear in WvW. While it doesn't abolish all of the timegates it still greatly increased the pace to which you can gain them.
And there is a chance to adapt: run something more burst heavy (condi or power) than the celestial stat
. It's not like the mount can cleanse condis...

Or is that not balanced?

D:

Yes, you read this wrong. Way off in fact.

Running full berserker only on an 11k hp elementalist isnt a logical response either.

Celestial is an example, crusader would be another good one.

Wut? Celestial is a bad example, since it is literally trying to be a middle ground with a splatter of stats. Why would it be recommended for bursting down a mount? Full crusader is a good example for...? Zerker elementalist? I never even responded with that, so why bring it up? Maybe if you did a swift air scepter ele and got in range, but I'm not even making that point. In my experience mesmer and ranger have the range plus burst to accomplish dismounting, alongside some niche condi builds (since the mount can't cleanse).

Look. ANET is throwing everyone a bone for dismounting making this entire string moot. Now you can use minstrel and dismount people! Cheers for build diversity? Someone using celestial can do it too if this change makes it through, so this must be proof ANET listens amiright?

D:

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There still needs to be ways for non-poffers to dismount which is why removing or sharing hp with char/allowing cc/removing dodges is better imo. It just needs perma swiftness speed that a player can achieve. Do not touch sniff at all, this is a great and balanced utility.

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@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

@Kilamanjaro.2705 said:Maybe they'll go to pvP where they belong :)

WvW isnt a place to PvP anymore?your comment makes me sad.

@Cal Cohen.3527 @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065"Guys, is this how you want WvW to be?

If people want to duel, they dismount and duel. If they would rather get into bigger fights they ignore you (unless you have "sic em").win win win imho, I've always viewed the permastealth, clone fest, one-shot people as a problem.I have been on servers in the past where seperation from a group on most builds meant sitting in camp and waiting for 4 or 5 to travel with because of the number of gankers haunting the spawns. I personally find the current setup much more enjoyable than _surprise- burst burst burst- oh chit he's alive- stealth run run evade evade evade stealth hide in camp-

That's apart of open world pvp.There should be dangers like that. There should be incentive to pvp above all else.

I love Battlefield for the same reasons, at any moment I can die.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying anyone's opinion is better, I definitely see your point, but, stand by my own as well. Perhaps the "dismount trap" will be a happy middle ground making the "gank" cost something more than time.The added load to supplies may be interesting too as it will make the gankers need supply for their traps, which will add a whole new element to them of having to take the occasional camp for resuppy or risk generating salt by leeching off the garri.

What does ganking have to do with dismounting?Dismount mechanics would heavily favor zergers than anything.. then small man roaming teams.. Gankers would be at the bottom of the food chain.

The main reason we need dismounting abilities is simply due to balance.

Balance between what?

Take Celestial gear as an example, extremely time gated to make, has no real use for PvE which means the gear is probably best suited for WvW and yet due to the CC immunity, 3 dodges and extra movement available its literally impossible for a person in Celestial gear to dismount someone.Now what if that person had 30 odd characters and several sets of Celestial gear dedicated to WvW AND missed out on the gear reset due to celestial being a core stat?Theres not even a chance to adapt.Its like 6 years worth of building up characters was just rendered moot and a huuuuuuuuuuuuuge waste of time.

I understand we can both like different things too.

Wut? Because you specced for celestial (and yes, I hate timegates) you are then entitled to dismount people because you can't do enough damage to the mount? Or did I read this wrong? Also there are more avenues to get celestial through stat selection ascended gear in WvW. While it doesn't abolish all of the timegates it still greatly increased the pace to which you can gain them.
And there is a chance to adapt: run something more burst heavy (condi or power) than the celestial stat
. It's not like the mount can cleanse condis...

Or is that not balanced?

D:

Yes, you read this wrong. Way off in fact.

Running full berserker only on an 11k hp elementalist isnt a logical response either.

Celestial is an example, crusader would be another good one.

Wut? Celestial is a bad example, since it is literally trying to be a middle ground with a splatter of stats. Why would it be recommended for
bursting
down a mount? Full crusader is a good example for...? Zerker elementalist? I never even responded with that, so why bring it up? Maybe if you did a swift air scepter ele and got in range, but I'm not even making that point. In my experience mesmer and ranger have the range plus burst to accomplish dismounting, alongside some niche condi builds (since the mount can't cleanse).

Look.
ANET is throwing everyone a bone for dismounting making this entire string moot.
Now you can use minstrel and dismount people! Cheers for build diversity? Someone using celestial can do it too if this change makes it through, so this must be proof ANET listens amiright?

D:

Exactly why you're way off.Twice now you have missed the point. Perhaps try reading what I originally said again?

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@Anput.4620 said:

@"Karnasis.6892" said:Add the dismount, but leave it as implemented. Don't change the skill after the fact, and don't change the mount further. Anyone that's having trouble getting fights has been doing it wrong lol.

Right because ONE camp proves your point. You only have your own "proof" to try to back up your claims. I also say your doing it wrong becuase I've been getting a ton of fights as a mes, I just stay dismounted, or dismount first. If they wanna fight they fight, if they don't, they run away. You just expect all fights all the time. You didn't adapt, you just took an awful video and tried to make it sound like that's your experience all the time. I bet it isn't, or you only log on, find out you aren't getting constant fights and log off.

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