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Updated Upcoming Warclaw bug fixes/changes


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WvW isnt a place to PvP anymore?your comment makes me sad.

@Cal Cohen.3527 @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065"Guys, is this how you want WvW to be?

If people want to duel, they dismount and duel. If they would rather get into bigger fights they ignore you (unless you have "sic em").win win win imho, I've always viewed the permastealth, clone fest, one-shot people as a problem.I have been on servers in the past where seperation from a group on most builds meant sitting in camp and waiting for 4 or 5 to travel with because of the number of gankers haunting the spawns. I personally find the current setup much more enjoyable than _surprise- burst burst burst- oh chit he's alive- stealth run run evade evade evade stealth hide in camp-

That's apart of open world pvp.There should be dangers like that. There should be incentive to pvp above all else.

I love Battlefield for the same reasons, at any moment I can die.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying anyone's opinion is better, I definitely see your point, but, stand by my own as well. Perhaps the "dismount trap" will be a happy middle ground making the "gank" cost something more than time.The added load to supplies may be interesting too as it will make the gankers need supply for their traps, which will add a whole new element to them of having to take the occasional camp for resuppy or risk generating salt by leeching off the garri.

What does ganking have to do with dismounting?Dismount mechanics would heavily favor zergers than anything.. then small man roaming teams.. Gankers would be at the bottom of the food chain.

The main reason we need dismounting abilities is simply due to balance.

Balance between what?

Take Celestial gear as an example, extremely time gated to make, has no real use for PvE which means the gear is probably best suited for WvW and yet due to the CC immunity, 3 dodges and extra movement available its literally impossible for a person in Celestial gear to dismount someone.Now what if that person had 30 odd characters and several sets of Celestial gear dedicated to WvW AND missed out on the gear reset due to celestial being a core stat?Theres not even a chance to adapt.Its like 6 years worth of building up characters was just rendered moot and a huuuuuuuuuuuuuge waste of time.

I understand we can both like different things too.

Wut? Because you specced for celestial (and yes, I hate timegates) you are then entitled to dismount people because you can't do enough damage to the mount? Or did I read this wrong? Also there are more avenues to get celestial through stat selection ascended gear in WvW. While it doesn't abolish all of the timegates it still greatly increased the pace to which you can gain them.
And there is a chance to adapt: run something more burst heavy (condi or power) than the celestial stat
. It's not like the mount can cleanse condis...

Or is that not balanced?

D:

Yes, you read this wrong. Way off in fact.

Running full berserker only on an 11k hp elementalist isnt a logical response either.

Celestial is an example, crusader would be another good one.

Wut? Celestial is a bad example, since it is literally trying to be a middle ground with a splatter of stats. Why would it be recommended for
bursting
down a mount? Full crusader is a good example for...? Zerker elementalist? I never even responded with that, so why bring it up? Maybe if you did a swift air scepter ele and got in range, but I'm not even making that point. In my experience mesmer and ranger have the range plus burst to accomplish dismounting, alongside some niche condi builds (since the mount can't cleanse).

Look.
ANET is throwing everyone a bone for dismounting making this entire string moot.
Now you can use minstrel and dismount people! Cheers for build diversity? Someone using celestial can do it too if this change makes it through, so this must be proof ANET listens amiright?

D:

Exactly why you're way off.Twice now you have missed the point. Perhaps try reading what I originally said again?

I did. Actually. Your original response was to someone making a hyperbolic comment on a potential situation, then they made a short snide remark to which you quoted. It wasn't very hard to read from there. Ultimately, I took issue of you thrusting a fringe example (30 characters with celestial gear...) as a way to support yourself and before that you also stated "the main reason we need dismounting abilities is simply due to balance." Then I asked "balance between what?" Which hasn't gone answered yet it is the more important question. People throw the word "balance" without being specific. Which two or more things were you actually balancing for? No need to answer, of course, given ANET's response.

Now that is all irrelevant, because ANET is giving everyone a chance to dismount without needing to worry about builds. The blanket insertion of this potential new skill would bring everything to balance technically by universal availability (unless you are a new player without masteries...hue hue hue).

D:

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WvW isnt a place to PvP anymore?your comment makes me sad.

@Cal Cohen.3527 @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065"Guys, is this how you want WvW to be?

If people want to duel, they dismount and duel. If they would rather get into bigger fights they ignore you (unless you have "sic em").win win win imho, I've always viewed the permastealth, clone fest, one-shot people as a problem.I have been on servers in the past where seperation from a group on most builds meant sitting in camp and waiting for 4 or 5 to travel with because of the number of gankers haunting the spawns. I personally find the current setup much more enjoyable than _surprise- burst burst burst- oh chit he's alive- stealth run run evade evade evade stealth hide in camp-

That's apart of open world pvp.There should be dangers like that. There should be incentive to pvp above all else.

I love Battlefield for the same reasons, at any moment I can die.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying anyone's opinion is better, I definitely see your point, but, stand by my own as well. Perhaps the "dismount trap" will be a happy middle ground making the "gank" cost something more than time.The added load to supplies may be interesting too as it will make the gankers need supply for their traps, which will add a whole new element to them of having to take the occasional camp for resuppy or risk generating salt by leeching off the garri.

What does ganking have to do with dismounting?Dismount mechanics would heavily favor zergers than anything.. then small man roaming teams.. Gankers would be at the bottom of the food chain.

The main reason we need dismounting abilities is simply due to balance.

Balance between what?

Take Celestial gear as an example, extremely time gated to make, has no real use for PvE which means the gear is probably best suited for WvW and yet due to the CC immunity, 3 dodges and extra movement available its literally impossible for a person in Celestial gear to dismount someone.Now what if that person had 30 odd characters and several sets of Celestial gear dedicated to WvW AND missed out on the gear reset due to celestial being a core stat?Theres not even a chance to adapt.Its like 6 years worth of building up characters was just rendered moot and a huuuuuuuuuuuuuge waste of time.

I understand we can both like different things too.

Wut? Because you specced for celestial (and yes, I hate timegates) you are then entitled to dismount people because you can't do enough damage to the mount? Or did I read this wrong? Also there are more avenues to get celestial through stat selection ascended gear in WvW. While it doesn't abolish all of the timegates it still greatly increased the pace to which you can gain them.
And there is a chance to adapt: run something more burst heavy (condi or power) than the celestial stat
. It's not like the mount can cleanse condis...

Or is that not balanced?

D:

Yes, you read this wrong. Way off in fact.

Running full berserker only on an 11k hp elementalist isnt a logical response either.

Celestial is an example, crusader would be another good one.

Wut? Celestial is a bad example, since it is literally trying to be a middle ground with a splatter of stats. Why would it be recommended for
bursting
down a mount? Full crusader is a good example for...? Zerker elementalist? I never even responded with that, so why bring it up? Maybe if you did a swift air scepter ele and got in range, but I'm not even making that point. In my experience mesmer and ranger have the range plus burst to accomplish dismounting, alongside some niche condi builds (since the mount can't cleanse).

Look.
ANET is throwing everyone a bone for dismounting making this entire string moot.
Now you can use minstrel and dismount people! Cheers for build diversity? Someone using celestial can do it too if this change makes it through, so this must be proof ANET listens amiright?

D:

Exactly why you're way off.Twice now you have missed the point. Perhaps try reading what I originally said again?

I did. Actually. Your original response was to someone making a hyperbolic comment on a potential situation, then they made a short snide remark to which you quoted. It wasn't very hard to read from there. Ultimately, I took issue of you thrusting a fringe example (30 characters with celestial gear...) as a way to support yourself and before that you also stated "the main reason we need dismounting abilities is simply due to
balance
." Then I asked "balance between what?"
Which hasn't gone answered
yet it is the more important question. People throw the word "
balance
" without being specific. Which two or more things were you actually balancing for? No need to answer, of course, given ANET's response.

Now that is all irrelevant, because ANET is giving everyone a chance to dismount without needing to worry about builds. The blanket insertion of this potential new skill would bring everything to balance technically by universal availability (unless you are a new player without masteries...hue hue hue).

D:

The balance is simply about the playstyles.. Not builds or classes themselves.

I main Tempest and theres no way my gear that is suited to my class can dismount people, people suggest to play berserker stats instead but I dont think those people have ever played Elementalist outside of a zerg or pve... So Warclaw has essentially deleted an entire spec from the mode (not even class mechanics work). The balance I ask for is to allow me to keep playing my main character in WvW outside of zergs only.Im aware I can load up some conditions but the mount will just dismount near the last tick and keep on running.. too far to catch up.

Its also hard because DD Tempest was built around mediocre damage and a tonne of soft CC like chill and cripple of which the mount is immune too..So I ask for balance here too, a dismount skill provides that.

I dont limit my thinking when it comes to balance, I take in all factors and how it effects each other.

Its really important to remember that the game hasnt been balanced around mounted plays for the last 6 years. A dismount skill is an easier solution than rebalancing 27 specs, traits and skills to balance around mounts.

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Definitely don't want a dismount skill, but I'd be in the minority on that. One thing I like about the mount, as it is, is to not have to deal with every thirsty roamer I come by. I tend to just want to do some quick objective and not be bothered. Especially when it's some ridiculously tanky build who can't kill you but insists on keeping you in combat for an hour until his band of Deadeyes show up.

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@Karnasis.6892 said:

@Karnasis.6892 said:Add the dismount, but leave it as implemented. Don't change the skill after the fact, and don't change the mount further. Anyone that's having trouble getting fights has been doing it wrong lol.

Right because ONE camp proves your point. You only have your own "proof" to try to back up your claims. I also say your doing it wrong becuase I've been getting a ton of fights as a mes, I just stay dismounted, or dismount first. If they wanna fight they fight, if they don't, they run away. You just expect all fights all the time. You didn't adapt, you just took an awful video and tried to make it sound like that's your experience all the time. I bet it isn't, or you only log on, find out you aren't getting constant fights and log off.

This is my experience most of the time, also why would i play low quality gameplay in low quantities if i can just play a good game?

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@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"Alukah.2063" said:You should make dismount cost 1 supply or something, so it gives people 10-15 charges before they have to capture or visit a camp to recharge.That makes absolutely no sense. Since the dismount is for your target
and you
, you will always be put in combat. Thats the "recharge". Its not like you will be able to go around on your mount going "
you
get a dismount!" every second while riding away laughing. There no need for any restriction.

As another said, I am more interested in projectile speed, animation, cooldown etc because this is critical to whether its even usable. A dismount with 30s cd and the behavior of engie pistol 5 for example wouldnt dismount anyone. Not even what I presume would be the archetype for a "netshot" (ballista, engie rifle or harpoon shots) would be anywhere
near
good enough vs the dodges of the mount. It would have to have like... 3s cd or something so you get tons of tries. Especially if it has a blatantly obvious projectile.

Warclaw serves a purpose to avoid matches with some solo gank specs, might as well remove the mount if anyone can dismount you anytime they want on a short cooldown. Right now it takes the entire burst combo of certain specs to be able to unmount someone, everyone having access to an easier unmount should have a big and harsh cost. Honestly 15 shots per camp visited isn't even that low, most roamers already hop from camp to camp.

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@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:Hey folks. 1 quick update here. The thing we're furthest along with is the new skill. Outside of a bit more testing, we're in line for some art requests.

Current design is that the 4 skill will require unlocking a new mount mastery. After that, it's a just a missile attack that if hits, dismounts your target and yourself. I can't give you a time frame yet, unfortunately.

If you question is about the art of the skill ^^, then I would not choose a rocket. A Rocket does not fit any class (Maybe only engineer), and certainly not the Warclaw. Siege weapons are also more ancient nature.My suggestion would be a lasso or something similar, a chain? Maybe with different skins and effects (definitly only playable in WvW), maybe defending on the server color. If there must/should be a mastery, then a quest on Borderlands not often used places (Scrits on NW Alpine Borders and so on).

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@"Anput.4620" said:

This is my experience most of the time, also why would i play low quality gameplay in low quantities if i can just play a good game?

Have you considered switching servers? Have you considered that maybe you play in a low pop time zone? That the person in your "proof" is hard countered by soulbeast. Also, a well made warrior build I fought recently deals with mounts just fine (Gunflame build).

I've gotten a lot more fights with the warclaw than without. You just have to find the right people. But hey, if you aren't playing GW2 anymore.... why does it matter to you?

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@Karnasis.6892 said:

@"Anput.4620" said:

This is my experience most of the time, also why would i play low quality gameplay in low quantities if i can just play a good game?

Have you considered switching servers? Have you considered that maybe you play in a low pop time zone? That the person in your "proof" is hard countered by soulbeast. Also, a well made warrior build I fought recently deals with mounts just fine (Gunflame build).

I've gotten a lot more fights with the warclaw than without. You just have to find the right people. But hey, if you aren't playing GW2 anymore.... why does it matter to you?

I have considered that i myself have never tpd out of any fight ever and even try to flee but never tp.

@Alukah.2063 said:

@Alukah.2063 said:You should make dismount cost 1 supply or something, so it gives people 10-15 charges before they have to capture or visit a camp to recharge.That makes absolutely no sense. Since the dismount is for your target
and you
, you will always be put in combat. Thats the "recharge". Its not like you will be able to go around on your mount going "
you
get a dismount!" every second while riding away laughing. There no need for any restriction.

As another said, I am more interested in projectile speed, animation, cooldown etc because this is critical to whether its even usable. A dismount with 30s cd and the behavior of engie pistol 5 for example wouldnt dismount anyone. Not even what I presume would be the archetype for a "netshot" (ballista, engie rifle or harpoon shots) would be anywhere
near
good enough vs the dodges of the mount. It would have to have like... 3s cd or something so you get tons of tries. Especially if it has a blatantly obvious projectile.

Warclaw serves a purpose to avoid matches with some solo gank specs, might as well remove the mount if anyone can dismount you anytime they want on a short cooldown. Right now it takes the entire burst combo of certain specs to be able to unmount someone, everyone having access to an easier unmount should have a big and harsh cost. Honestly 15 shots per camp visited isn't even that low, most roamers already hop from camp to camp.

Engaging in combat should be encouraged to avoid passive and uninteractive gameplay so it should have no downsides as engaging in combat itself provides no inherent advantage.

Lol @ supporting broken combat avoidance tools in world pvp.

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WvW isnt a place to PvP anymore?your comment makes me sad.

@Cal Cohen.3527 @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065"Guys, is this how you want WvW to be?

If people want to duel, they dismount and duel. If they would rather get into bigger fights they ignore you (unless you have "sic em").win win win imho, I've always viewed the permastealth, clone fest, one-shot people as a problem.I have been on servers in the past where seperation from a group on most builds meant sitting in camp and waiting for 4 or 5 to travel with because of the number of gankers haunting the spawns. I personally find the current setup much more enjoyable than _surprise- burst burst burst- oh chit he's alive- stealth run run evade evade evade stealth hide in camp-

That's apart of open world pvp.There should be dangers like that. There should be incentive to pvp above all else.

I love Battlefield for the same reasons, at any moment I can die.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying anyone's opinion is better, I definitely see your point, but, stand by my own as well. Perhaps the "dismount trap" will be a happy middle ground making the "gank" cost something more than time.The added load to supplies may be interesting too as it will make the gankers need supply for their traps, which will add a whole new element to them of having to take the occasional camp for resuppy or risk generating salt by leeching off the garri.

What does ganking have to do with dismounting?Dismount mechanics would heavily favor zergers than anything.. then small man roaming teams.. Gankers would be at the bottom of the food chain.

The main reason we need dismounting abilities is simply due to balance.

Balance between what?

Take Celestial gear as an example, extremely time gated to make, has no real use for PvE which means the gear is probably best suited for WvW and yet due to the CC immunity, 3 dodges and extra movement available its literally impossible for a person in Celestial gear to dismount someone.Now what if that person had 30 odd characters and several sets of Celestial gear dedicated to WvW AND missed out on the gear reset due to celestial being a core stat?Theres not even a chance to adapt.Its like 6 years worth of building up characters was just rendered moot and a huuuuuuuuuuuuuge waste of time.

I understand we can both like different things too.

Wut? Because you specced for celestial (and yes, I hate timegates) you are then entitled to dismount people because you can't do enough damage to the mount? Or did I read this wrong? Also there are more avenues to get celestial through stat selection ascended gear in WvW. While it doesn't abolish all of the timegates it still greatly increased the pace to which you can gain them.
And there is a chance to adapt: run something more burst heavy (condi or power) than the celestial stat
. It's not like the mount can cleanse condis...

Or is that not balanced?

D:

Yes, you read this wrong. Way off in fact.

Running full berserker only on an 11k hp elementalist isnt a logical response either.

Celestial is an example, crusader would be another good one.

Wut? Celestial is a bad example, since it is literally trying to be a middle ground with a splatter of stats. Why would it be recommended for
bursting
down a mount? Full crusader is a good example for...? Zerker elementalist? I never even responded with that, so why bring it up? Maybe if you did a swift air scepter ele and got in range, but I'm not even making that point. In my experience mesmer and ranger have the range plus burst to accomplish dismounting, alongside some niche condi builds (since the mount can't cleanse).

Look.
ANET is throwing everyone a bone for dismounting making this entire string moot.
Now you can use minstrel and dismount people! Cheers for build diversity? Someone using celestial can do it too if this change makes it through, so this must be proof ANET listens amiright?

D:

Exactly why you're way off.Twice now you have missed the point. Perhaps try reading what I originally said again?

I did. Actually. Your original response was to someone making a hyperbolic comment on a potential situation, then they made a short snide remark to which you quoted. It wasn't very hard to read from there. Ultimately, I took issue of you thrusting a fringe example (30 characters with celestial gear...) as a way to support yourself and before that you also stated "the main reason we need dismounting abilities is simply due to
balance
." Then I asked "balance between what?"
Which hasn't gone answered
yet it is the more important question. People throw the word "
balance
" without being specific. Which two or more things were you actually balancing for? No need to answer, of course, given ANET's response.

Now that is all irrelevant, because ANET is giving everyone a chance to dismount without needing to worry about builds. The blanket insertion of this potential new skill would bring everything to balance technically by universal availability (unless you are a new player without masteries...hue hue hue).

D:

The balance is simply about the playstyles.. Not builds or classes themselves.

I main Tempest and theres no way my gear that is suited to my class can dismount people, people suggest to play berserker stats instead but I dont think those people have ever played Elementalist outside of a zerg or pve... So Warclaw has essentially deleted an entire spec from the mode (not even class mechanics work). The balance I ask for is to allow me to keep playing my main character in WvW outside of zergs only.Im aware I can load up some conditions but the mount will just dismount near the last tick and keep on running.. too far to catch up.

Its also hard because DD Tempest was built around mediocre damage and a tonne of soft CC like chill and cripple of which the mount is immune too..So I ask for balance here too, a dismount skill provides that.

I dont limit my thinking when it comes to balance, I take in all factors and how it effects each other.

No. Warclaw didn't delete your melee-range ele spec. Stop blowing it out of proportion. You can still play your "main" outside of zergs. Even more so with their theoretical change. I'm not going to bother with this anymore considering this portion contradicts itself by narrowing your perspective on that class, weapons, and "playstyle" then claiming you "take in all factors and how it effects each other." If we pretended to allow CC's to affect mounts, then you drastically alter the "playerstyle" you wish to be "outside of." Using the mount to push/get by choke fights would be even more of a joke than it already is. ANET is probably making the correct choice for those that wish to be more melee heavy in their setup.

Its really important to remember that the game hasnt been balanced around mounted plays for the last 6 years. A dismount skill is an easier solution than rebalancing 27 specs, traits and skills to balance around mounts.

This is the only thing that actually makes sense, and I can agree upon. I'm even aware the game wasn't even balanced around gliders, and guild buffs/tactics. I'm also quite aware of the pragmatic approach to changing the mount as opposed to skills/traits (I never suggested they should do that tedious task either).

D:

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@Anput.4620 said:

I have considered that i myself have never tpd out of any fight ever and even try to flee but never tp.

So because you've never done it no one should? Wow.... some people don't want to waste their own time, and if it bothers you that they just tp away from you before a fight then I guess they win? That also didn't answer what I mentioned before, that you might be trying to get fights during a low pop time of play. For example, on many servers OCX has WAY less players on some servers, so finding a fight during that time is a lot tougher than say NA time. You could also just be playing against lower pop server. Which is a pretty good chance why you aren't getting fights all the time.

In addition, if you log in once a day, play for 15 minutes without doing anything but looking for fights than your doing it wrong, especially at the south camps. Try the north camps, look at any that might be tiered up or look at some that have tactics. As long as those camps are being used to tier a larger objective up you might have a better chance at getting defenders to fight. But hey this is all basic roaming stuff that I doubt you tried.

Engaging in combat should be encouraged to avoid passive and uninteractive gameplay so it should have no downsides as engaging in combat itself provides no inherent advantage.

There are a lot of people that disagree with you that there is no interaction since the warclaw. My experience is the opposite (for the most part), and many people I play with on a regular basis are saying the same things.

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@Karnasis.6892 said:

I have considered that i myself have never tpd out of any fight ever and even try to flee but never tp.

So because you've never done it no one should? Wow.... some people don't want to waste their own time, and if it bothers you that they just tp away from you before a fight then I guess they win? That also didn't answer what I mentioned before, that you might be trying to get fights during a low pop time of play. For example, on many servers OCX has WAY less players on some servers, so finding a fight during that time is a lot tougher than say NA time. You could also just be playing against lower pop server. Which is a pretty good chance why you aren't getting fights all the time.

In addition, if you log in once a day, play for 15 minutes without doing anything but looking for fights than your doing it wrong, especially at the south camps. Try the north camps, look at any that might be tiered up or look at some that have tactics. As long as those camps are being used to tier a larger objective up you might have a better chance at getting defenders to fight. But hey this is all basic roaming stuff that I doubt you tried.

Engaging in combat should be encouraged to avoid passive and uninteractive gameplay so it should have no downsides as engaging in combat itself provides no inherent advantage.

There are a lot of people that disagree with you that there is no interaction since the warclaw. My experience is the opposite (for the most part), and many people I play with on a regular basis are saying the same things.

This is simply not true because any player running past you with a warclaw would have been a possible fight before so there must have been more fights before, i see more poeple run past me than i have actual fights which means my total amount has been lowered by over half, just not worth playing this garbage when there is better games.

A game that allows poeple to not fight when they join a open PvP mode simply is bad, look at all popular PvP games, none offer that, now look how popular WvW/Gw2 is in comparison.

Why do you think a well-made competitive fun and interactice PvP game requires heavy handholding and carebearing when reality shows otherwise? 99% of poeple who play MMO's for world PvP play for the exact same reason as me, they want to run around and kill random poeple.

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@Anput.4620 said:

This is simply not true because any player running past you with a warclaw would have been a possible fight before so there must have been more fights before, i see more poeple run past me than i have actual fights which means my total amount has been lowered by over half, just not worth playing this garbage when there is better games.

Lol, so you don't have people running back to try to stop you from doing things? Before you'd kill someone and then they wouldn't get back to you quickly. And now they can, which increases the amount of fights you have. If people are running past you and you don't even try to stop them or grab their attention that's on you. Also, I never understand why people who don't play games they used to play still post on forums of a game they don't care about anymore.

A game that allows poeple to not fight when they join a open PvP mode simply is bad, look at all popular PvP games, none offer that, now look how popular WvW/Gw2 is in comparison.

You know GW2 isn't a pvp game right. Comparing a strictly pvp game vs a singular game mode in an MMO isn't a good comparison.

Why do you think a well-made competitive fun and interactice PvP game requires heavy handholding and carebearing when reality shows otherwise? 99% of poeple who play MMO's for world PvP play for the exact same reason as me, they want to run around and kill random poeple.

Again, GW2 isn't an open world pvp game. WvW HAS pvp, but isn't ONLY pvp. If you want that pvp game style, play sPvP.

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One more time, it is WORLD vs WORLD not PvP, although it encompasses PvP by nature, there is a mode designed specifically for PvP (It's called PvP LOL). It's my opinion that complaining that your PvP is suffering in WvW is outright selfish.It's been said over and over, some builds are designed for zergs (WORLD fights), so the PvP player hiding in the shadows or in a tower to drop off and burst kill stragglers isn't PvP or WvW, it's a bottom-feeding opportunist.People who want to 1v1 have set areas for that and certain "codes" they abide by, most groups who have been around awhile leave them alone. If thats not fitting your needs, and standard PvP isn't either then perhaps PvP isn't your thing, perhaps bottomfeeding is and that should not be encouraged in any game (Last paragraph not directed toward anyone specificMy experience since warclaw has been longer, more frequent fights as groups getting separated isn't as devastating. Full dead players are more likely to waypoint nad run back rather than lay around hoping for a rez, because they can get back to their group rather quickly regardless of how many daredevils, deadeyes and mirages are hiding in the bushes unless they team up to dismount players (team play? sounds like wvw to me). Sic em is a different story but not the subject of this thread.I still think the dismount trap/skill is a great middle ground but the CD needs to be long and/or require supply (like the door pull does, long cd plus 1 supply or shorter CD with more supply). I like the supply idea because deep running gankers would need to resupply occasionally, forcing them to contribute to the team by flipping a camp.

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WvW isnt a place to PvP anymore?your comment makes me sad.

@Cal Cohen.3527 @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065"Guys, is this how you want WvW to be?

If people want to duel, they dismount and duel. If they would rather get into bigger fights they ignore you (unless you have "sic em").win win win imho, I've always viewed the permastealth, clone fest, one-shot people as a problem.I have been on servers in the past where seperation from a group on most builds meant sitting in camp and waiting for 4 or 5 to travel with because of the number of gankers haunting the spawns. I personally find the current setup much more enjoyable than _surprise- burst burst burst- oh chit he's alive- stealth run run evade evade evade stealth hide in camp-

That's apart of open world pvp.There should be dangers like that. There should be incentive to pvp above all else.

I love Battlefield for the same reasons, at any moment I can die.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying anyone's opinion is better, I definitely see your point, but, stand by my own as well. Perhaps the "dismount trap" will be a happy middle ground making the "gank" cost something more than time.The added load to supplies may be interesting too as it will make the gankers need supply for their traps, which will add a whole new element to them of having to take the occasional camp for resuppy or risk generating salt by leeching off the garri.

What does ganking have to do with dismounting?Dismount mechanics would heavily favor zergers than anything.. then small man roaming teams.. Gankers would be at the bottom of the food chain.

The main reason we need dismounting abilities is simply due to balance.

Balance between what?

Take Celestial gear as an example, extremely time gated to make, has no real use for PvE which means the gear is probably best suited for WvW and yet due to the CC immunity, 3 dodges and extra movement available its literally impossible for a person in Celestial gear to dismount someone.Now what if that person had 30 odd characters and several sets of Celestial gear dedicated to WvW AND missed out on the gear reset due to celestial being a core stat?Theres not even a chance to adapt.Its like 6 years worth of building up characters was just rendered moot and a huuuuuuuuuuuuuge waste of time.

I understand we can both like different things too.

Wut? Because you specced for celestial (and yes, I hate timegates) you are then entitled to dismount people because you can't do enough damage to the mount? Or did I read this wrong? Also there are more avenues to get celestial through stat selection ascended gear in WvW. While it doesn't abolish all of the timegates it still greatly increased the pace to which you can gain them.
And there is a chance to adapt: run something more burst heavy (condi or power) than the celestial stat
. It's not like the mount can cleanse condis...

Or is that not balanced?

D:

Yes, you read this wrong. Way off in fact.

Running full berserker only on an 11k hp elementalist isnt a logical response either.

Celestial is an example, crusader would be another good one.

Wut? Celestial is a bad example, since it is literally trying to be a middle ground with a splatter of stats. Why would it be recommended for
bursting
down a mount? Full crusader is a good example for...? Zerker elementalist? I never even responded with that, so why bring it up? Maybe if you did a swift air scepter ele and got in range, but I'm not even making that point. In my experience mesmer and ranger have the range plus burst to accomplish dismounting, alongside some niche condi builds (since the mount can't cleanse).

Look.
ANET is throwing everyone a bone for dismounting making this entire string moot.
Now you can use minstrel and dismount people! Cheers for build diversity? Someone using celestial can do it too if this change makes it through, so this must be proof ANET listens amiright?

D:

Exactly why you're way off.Twice now you have missed the point. Perhaps try reading what I originally said again?

I did. Actually. Your original response was to someone making a hyperbolic comment on a potential situation, then they made a short snide remark to which you quoted. It wasn't very hard to read from there. Ultimately, I took issue of you thrusting a fringe example (30 characters with celestial gear...) as a way to support yourself and before that you also stated "the main reason we need dismounting abilities is simply due to
balance
." Then I asked "balance between what?"
Which hasn't gone answered
yet it is the more important question. People throw the word "
balance
" without being specific. Which two or more things were you actually balancing for? No need to answer, of course, given ANET's response.

Now that is all irrelevant, because ANET is giving everyone a chance to dismount without needing to worry about builds. The blanket insertion of this potential new skill would bring everything to balance technically by universal availability (unless you are a new player without masteries...hue hue hue).

D:

The balance is simply about the playstyles.. Not builds or classes themselves.

I main Tempest and theres no way my gear that is suited to my class can dismount people, people suggest to play berserker stats instead but I dont think those people have ever played Elementalist outside of a zerg or pve... So Warclaw has essentially deleted an entire spec from the mode (not even class mechanics work). The balance I ask for is to allow me to keep playing my main character in WvW outside of zergs only.Im aware I can load up some conditions but the mount will just dismount near the last tick and keep on running.. too far to catch up.

Its also hard because DD Tempest was built around mediocre damage and a tonne of soft CC like chill and cripple of which the mount is immune too..So I ask for balance here too, a dismount skill provides that.

I dont limit my thinking when it comes to balance, I take in all factors and how it effects each other.

No. Warclaw didn't delete your melee-range ele spec. Stop blowing it out of proportion. You can still play your "main" outside of zergs.
Even more so with their theoretical change.
I'm not going to bother with this anymore considering this portion contradicts itself by narrowing your perspective on that class, weapons, and "playstyle" then claiming you "take in all factors and how it effects each other." If we pretended to allow CC's to affect mounts, then you drastically alter the "playerstyle" you wish to be "outside of." Using the mount to push/get by choke fights would be even more of a joke than it already is. ANET is probably making the correct choice for those that wish to be more melee heavy in their setup.

Its really important to remember that the game hasnt been balanced around mounted plays for the last 6 years. A dismount skill is an easier solution than rebalancing 27 specs, traits and skills to balance around mounts.

This is the only thing that actually makes sense, and I can agree upon
. I'm even aware the game wasn't even balanced around gliders, and guild buffs/tactics. I'm also quite aware of the pragmatic approach to changing the mount as opposed to skills/traits (I never suggested they should do that tedious task either).

D:

Mmkay see you're misunderstanding again.

Lets just leave it there.

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@"Kilamanjaro.2705" said:One more time, it is WORLD vs WORLD not PvP, although it encompasses PvP by nature, there is a mode designed specifically for PvP (It's called PvP LOL). It's my opinion that complaining that your PvP is suffering in WvW is outright selfish.It's been said over and over, some builds are designed for zergs (WORLD fights), so the PvP player hiding in the shadows or in a tower to drop off and burst kill stragglers isn't PvP or WvW, it's a bottom-feeding opportunist.The word world doesn't equate to meaning zerging. The word itself "encompasses" broad areas of play types. The important part would be "VS" imo, an "us against them" scenario which pretty much hints that fighting of sorts is involved.

perhaps bottomfeeding is and that should not be encouraged in any game (Last paragraph not directed toward anyone specificBottomfeeding happens everywhere, you've just changed the word ganking. It is also encouraged with the advent of mounts. Just see those 10+ ppl chasing 1 person.

My experience since warclaw has been longer, more frequent fights as groups getting separated isn't as devastating. Full dead players are more likely to waypoint nad run back rather than lay around hoping for a rez, because they can get back to their group rather quicklyYou would be surprised that there is not really a difference sometimes with fully dead not wp'ing - they instead relied on their allies to wp and come back faster to res them lol.

I still think the dismount trap/skill is a great middle ground but the CD needs to be long and/or require supply (like the door pull does, long cd plus 1 supply or shorter CD with more supply). I like the supply idea because deep running gankers would need to resupply occasionally, forcing them to contribute to the team by flipping a camp.If we follow this rule of thought, then superior battle maul should also need supply to trigger the finisher and also have an increased cd.

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@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:Hey folks. 1 quick update here. The thing we're furthest along with is the new skill. Outside of a bit more testing, we're in line for some art requests.

Current design is that the 4 skill will require unlocking a new mount mastery. After that, it's a just a missile attack that if hits, dismounts your target and yourself. I can't give you a time frame yet, unfortunately.

That nice an all but wvw is realty badly balanced atm and mounts are not going to fix this problem. Its more of less a simpleton of it.

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Mounts ruined the already ruined gamemode, nowadays you can't do anything else than following a zerg, since you cannot dismount people if you're not using a full glass build. If you do, your fight will last for less than 10 secondes and both players won't enjoy shit about it. So you can play in zerg, time to spend 1k5€ in a new computer to get oneshotted by a rev hammer 2 with 60 fps in fights, otherwise you won't even see what just happened.Game's ruined. 6 years playing it, I can't even stand playing in this game mode anymore, it's just a nightmare.

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  • 4 weeks later...

By the way, there is a small bug I have noticed when I was doing WvW dailies: Finishing an enemy with the Warcralw's skill 1 (Superior Battle Maul in my case) does not count towards the daily achievemnt "WvW Invasion Defender" while it still count for "Fatal Fangs" achievement. Hoping for a fix Soon™, thanks.

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@oOStaticOo.9467 said:Just stop. It's not as bad as you are saying it is. So tired of all this whining about Mount in WvW and how it's now a dead game. Just learn how to play with it and adjust to it. It's not that hard.

Its actually pretty good.

I can easily spend an hour tapping a keep and forcing people to chase me for fun. No one dies but its still fun dodging trebs and cannons around an enemy keep.

I have a 100% win rate in my fights because I can chose to only attack people that I hard counter or people with a rank below silver. Im ranked 3k plus for wvw via roaming only and im just over 300 ranks in PvP. Its never a fair fight.

I can run with enemy zergs and create chaos as half try to dismount me and the the other half continue running with the tag.

I can find some roamers and put them in combat while I stay mounted then keep them in tether distance until a zerg I called rolled over the 2 of them.

I can safely stomp people who are duelling.

I can run around the inside of an enemy keep without worrying about my death.

I can sit around with 5 mounted players ready to herd a single player into death as if we are cowboys and they are cattle.

If someone is taking my camp, doesnt matter if I die 3 times because each time I made it back before they finished capping.

Some might say this is destroying the game mode, others say this is what anets vision is and to just adapt. It really depends on whos commenting.

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