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put more loot inside Towers and castles


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@Gop.8713 said:This isn't a terrible idea, but I would argue that wvw should do more to attract ppl who like to fight bc fights and less to attract ppl who like loot. We all have pve for that . . .

true but like to fight should not be a punishment or an disadvantage. For example Raids are for people who like challange but its still extremly rewarding.

also it would be closer to real battles where after u take over a castle u start looting the treasures of ur enemies

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Then they have to code in some kind of participation system. Otherwise people will flood the map to get into the structure for their loot. The Warclaw queues were nothing compared to the kittenstorm that would bring.

They could up the rewards from the lords, if anything. But I don't like the idea of lootable chests. Then we get Istan v2.0.

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@Etterwyn.5263 said:Then they have to code in some kind of participation system. Otherwise people will flood the map to get into the structure for their loot. The Warclaw queues were nothing compared to the kittenstorm that would bring.

They could up the rewards from the lords, if anything. But I don't like the idea of lootable chests. Then we get Istan v2.0.

Flipping high tier objectives with a lot of defenders is not something you can do that easily, you still need some coordination and balance of healing, boons and damage. Not something your everyday Istan/SW farmer can do considering that their build involves pressing 2 buttons and autoattack spam.

Besides, if every map has queues then all objrctives will be t0 (like they were during warclaw launch) which means no rewards.

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@steki.1478 said:

@Etterwyn.5263 said:Then they have to code in some kind of participation system. Otherwise people will flood the map to get into the structure for their loot. The Warclaw queues were nothing compared to the kittenstorm that would bring.

They could up the rewards from the lords, if anything. But I don't like the idea of lootable chests. Then we get Istan v2.0.

Flipping high tier objectives with a lot of defenders is not something you can do that easily, you still need some coordination and balance of healing, boons and damage. Not something your everyday Istan/SW farmer can do considering that their build involves pressing 2 buttons and autoattack spam.

Besides, if every map has queues then all objrctives will be t0 (like they were during warclaw launch) which means no rewards.

high tier objective flipping cannot be too rewarding compared to t0.if it is too rewarding, people will still farm it on each side and complain about people trying to keep hostile objectives at t0 for 'griefing'. just like in some old day event trains people were insulted for finishing an event. i dont think it is good to reward playing bad, already people do not play with a focus on the keeping enemy objectives low tier while upgrading their own (or at least most suck at it if they are trying).however increasing overall reward in WvW would be awesome. the problem is that there is hardly a metric to measure contribution, in pve it might be ok to reward participation but in competitive modes one would need to reward contribution. i would like rewards based on players involved (like more loot on a solo kill than a zerg kill or more loot from solo/few people flipping towers/keeps than doing it with a zerg) but that also does have some issues like 'toxicity' against people who do participate and not contribute while diminishing the loot.

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@Balsa.3951 said:

@Gop.8713 said:This isn't a terrible idea, but I would argue that wvw should do more to attract ppl who like to fight bc fights and less to attract ppl who like loot. We all have pve for that . . .

true but like to fight should not be a punishment or an disadvantage. For example Raids are for people who like challange but its still extremly rewarding.

also it would be closer to real battles where after u take over a castle u start looting the treasures of ur enemies

Any time you introduce more loots into a competitive game mode you encourage ppl to game the system to receive the loots. Bandwagoning for easy wins is arguably one of wvw's primary problems right now despite its not even being a rewarded behavior under the current system. Increasing rewards for 'winning' is something anet should consider only when/if they can develop a system that guarantees even matchups . . .

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@Gop.8713 said:This isn't a terrible idea, but I would argue that wvw should do more to attract ppl who like to fight bc fights and less to attract ppl who like loot. We all have pve for that . . .

Wvw needs more rewarding. Got friend with 2k lvl, that simply plays only wvw, got shiton of tickets and 2 pieces of leg armor, cuz he can't afford it.

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@Safandula.8723 said:

@Gop.8713 said:This isn't a terrible idea, but I would argue that wvw should do more to attract ppl who like to fight bc fights and less to attract ppl who like loot. We all have pve for that . . .

Wvw needs more rewarding. Got friend with 2k lvl, that simply plays only wvw, got shiton of tickets and 2 pieces of leg armor, cuz he can't afford it.

He needs to look at his bank. Most of the mats needed for the legendary armor can be acquired through daily play. He has laurels, mats in his bank, etc.

I have two sets of armor, have only map completed in PvE during the same timeframe and have the need for only tickets in the third set. (Took a break from the game)

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@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Gop.8713 said:This isn't a terrible idea, but I would argue that wvw should do more to attract ppl who like to fight bc fights and less to attract ppl who like loot. We all have pve for that . . .

Wvw needs more rewarding. Got friend with 2k lvl, that simply plays only wvw, got shiton of tickets and 2 pieces of leg armor, cuz he can't afford it.

He needs to look at his bank. Most of the mats needed for the legendary armor can be acquired through daily play. He has laurels, mats in his bank, etc.

I have two sets of armor, have only map completed in PvE during the same timeframe and have the need for only tickets in the third set. (Took a break from the game)

I agree this sounds like a strange problem. It sounds like he could also possibly benefit from alternate reward track choices. It would be easier to help if we knew exactly what he was missing, but this is veering off the topic of the thread already, which was increasing rewards for capping and holding objectives, which would be nice but would create problems in the current wvw environment . . .

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@Etterwyn.5263 said:Then they have to code in some kind of participation system. Otherwise people will flood the map to get into the structure for their loot. The Warclaw queues were nothing compared to the kittenstorm that would bring.

They could up the rewards from the lords, if anything. But I don't like the idea of lootable chests. Then we get Istan v2.0.

perhaps lords dropping keys

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I like this idea, but it would need to be balanced well.

Have keep lords drop 2 rarestower lords drop 1 rare

+1 rare, +2g if it's a t2 structure+2 rares, +5g if it's a t3 structure

To discourage flipping the structures back and forth, stick a loot chest next to the nodes that spawns when a structure reaches t3. Call it a chest of the mists, lootable once per skirmish.

When opened it grants 5 rares, 10g, and potions of wvw experience.

This makes the rewards for holding a t3 structure better than swapping it back and forth

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The reward for taking high-level structures is denying your enemies a higher score. But yeah, that doesn't matter anymore.I'd rather they focus on making scores worth something again, like granting access to a Darkness Falls-like map. Make it a PVP-enabled PVE map, where raid bosses roam around, mobs drop essential WvW food & oils, node synthesizers give high-level materials. Essentially a map that's ludicrously lucrative worth fighting for access.

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@Gop.8713 said:This isn't a terrible idea, but I would argue that wvw should do more to attract ppl who like to fight bc fights and less to attract ppl who like loot. We all have pve for that . . .

Maybe beter would’be to remove all loot from structures and give treasure chest every 1h of structure holding, eachbstructure would give unique items and mats compared with other structures.

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@Aeolus.3615 said:

@Gop.8713 said:This isn't a terrible idea, but I would argue that wvw should do more to attract ppl who like to fight bc fights and less to attract ppl who like loot. We all have pve for that . . .

Maybe beter would’be to remove all loot from structures and give treasure chest every 1h of structure holding, eachbstructure would give unique items and mats compared with other structures.

That just encourages ppl to siege up their structures and hide inside . . .

I think they've got rewards right as it is: Award participation over time and define participation as pretty much any constructive thing anyone might feel like doing . . .

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Good point..

Well maybe I’m biased, I dont mind to fight heavy sieged structures. Coomanders need to know how to deal with that besides run away ant ktrain something empty....I always condemned anet devs by the poor mechanics they have, maybe SMC or each important keep in each map could have its own mechanic to add to the alliance/server, like new mount, new siege weapon like a charrtank, a lot can be done to make game more rewarding w/o being. 1111 and bag is full every 20minutes, most m8 want this cause they are ktrainning for loot and not for gameplay nor strategy.

As a wvw player since release I feel wvw already has way to much bags and overall loot, imo should me needed kinda hard.

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I think the participation method is the only way to prevent death screams of all sorts. We all know what happens when given the chance to win for rewards are like. Burnout, bandwagons, steamrolls. What happens to the side that can do nothing but lose continously? It might make a bunch of people leave or turn really sour. If there is a way to balance hourly matchups or even making them shorter, then maybe the rewards thing wouldn't be as bad as the cycling would be really quick. Is that what we want for this mode though? Maybe they should hold a weeklong event to see how ultra short matchups [30m-1hr] are like to test the waters, and see if it interests or bores people. How much time does the average player have to invest in playing wvw? Maybe use that as a reference point and think of a way to reward accordingly.

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@DemonSeed.3528 said:I think the participation method is the only way to prevent death screams of all sorts. We all know what happens when given the chance to win for rewards are like. Burnout, bandwagons, steamrolls. What happens to the side that can do nothing but lose continously? It might make a bunch of people leave or turn really sour. If there is a way to balance hourly matchups or even making them shorter, then maybe the rewards thing wouldn't be as bad as the cycling would be really quick. Is that what we want for this mode though? Maybe they should hold a weeklong event to see how ultra short matchups [30m-1hr] are like to test the waters, and see if it interests or bores people. How much time does the average player have to invest in playing wvw? Maybe use that as a reference point and think of a way to reward accordingly.

The problem with 30 minute to 1 hour ‘matches’ is the resetting of objectives. That is a several minute process. That will get old if it happens every 30 minutes..

And then, there is no purpose to upgrading objectives which, would it just be a ktrain?

8 hour matches might work as a trial.

Or, a trial at some point of what they noted scoring wise that they were looking at.

Of course, making ‘off hours’ count less really will upset some who feel like their time isn’t as ‘valuable’ as others.

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@Gop.8713 said:

@Gop.8713 said:This isn't a terrible idea, but I would argue that wvw should do more to attract ppl who like to fight bc fights and less to attract ppl who like loot. We all have pve for that . . .

true but like to fight should not be a punishment or an disadvantage. For example Raids are for people who like challange but its still extremly rewarding.

also it would be closer to real battles where after u take over a castle u start looting the treasures of ur enemies

Any time you introduce more loots into a competitive game mode you encourage ppl to game the system to receive the loots. Bandwagoning for easy wins is arguably one of wvw's primary problems right now despite its not even being a rewarded behavior under the current system. Increasing rewards for 'winning' is something anet should consider only when/if they can develop a system that guarantees even matchups . . .

This.

Any rewards added to WvW would have to be unrelated to content or game play which goes against the game mode primary intent.

Warhammer Online had better rewards in its RvR. Guess what happened, people found the most efficient ways to farm rewards, ALWAYS. Yes, this included not engaging the enemy or circle retaking objectives while avoiding fights. We are talking about a MMO which primary player base supposedly was RVR focused intentionally not playing RvR for the loots.

So no, towers are fine as is. I'd even go as far and say remove all loot reward from open world WvW and roll them into reward tracks or some kind of out side system. Leave the rewards for killing players.

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I'm coming from the perspective of an open world pve player that's done a decent amount of loot grinding who is starting to get more into wvw.

I personally feel like the mode could really benefit from increased rewards from things but it shouldn't be turned into a loot grind. Only way I can really see that happening is if capping and holding objectives becomes more rewarding in some way, not initially capping the objective. If you make capping rewarding people will just farm it and intentionally let it fall. If you have to defend it to get better rewards, I think that would encourage people to play the mode normally.

But I'm no wvw expert :P

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More loot will lead to musical keeps, Warhammer Online already tried that. Players will always find the path to least resistance. If avoiding enemies and taking keeps will lead to better rewards, then they'll do exact that as WAR showed. There needs to be more rewards for player vs player interaction, and less emphasis on keeps & siege. Taking T3 keeps are such a pain that most just avoid them completely. Currently the "reward" for attacking T3 keeps is to hope to draw enemy groups to you so you can have a fight.

Unfortunately sometimes enemies just decide to stay inside the keeps and you end up wasting a lot of time waiting for them to come out. Whatever rewards they add to WvW, they really need to be more about player engagement.

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