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Full Minstrels meta on Chrono needs to stop.


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It's funny how ppl want dps to run berserker/viper for the best dps, but they dont mind chronos running garbage builds. Anyway, minstrel is a safe choice, but if you run it for every boss, you are just bad. For example, bosses like MO or Sab have nothing to tank. Deimos(if group has low dps), Desmina and some other high pressure bosses can require higher toughness. Even then, they are possible with 1005 or similar. People care about boons and tend to ignore the fact that some chronos have 0 idea or abilities to use best gear or build for every boss. But if you kick a chrono, you will waste much more time searching for a new one than killing a boss and carrying 0 dps chrono. And it's easily possible to keep boon 100% on a squad with sub 50 BD, but your both chronos need to have hands and press buttons.

P.s. I saw some people said that dps'es expect aegis all the time. It is true in some cases like Gorseval. Chronos should be able to provide aegis for at least 95% of slams and dps players should not dodge that attack most of the times.

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I run 1096 as too many runs had 1 or too people on 1050ish, the other setups are for soulbeasts/FBs. Am also pretty sure i clarified my understanding of toughness by stating how it's not needed if the chrono is hitting 2 and 4 moderately ok. But whatever, will do on the retreating away from lfg front. cheers for the tips on minstrels -1 piece support chrono.

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@Compleo.3182 said:It's funny how ppl want dps to run berserker/viper for the best dps, but they dont mind chronos running garbage builds. Anyway, minstrel is a safe choice, but if you run it for every boss, you are just bad. For example, bosses like MO or Sab have nothing to tank. Deimos(if group has low dps), Desmina and some other high pressure bosses can require higher toughness. Even then, they are possible with 1005 or similar. People care about boons and tend to ignore the fact that some chronos have 0 idea or abilities to use best gear or build for every boss. But if you kick a chrono, you will waste much more time searching for a new one than killing a boss and carrying 0 dps chrono. And it's easily possible to keep boon 100% on a squad with sub 50 BD, but your both chronos need to have hands and press buttons.

P.s. I saw some people said that dps'es expect aegis all the time. It is true in some cases like Gorseval. Chronos should be able to provide aegis for at least 95% of slams and dps players should not dodge that attack most of the times.

Sure, but you are now throwing in a ton of things which have not been covered in this thread.

1.) where is the quantification for minstrel on certain bosses from TC? People responding are the ones who brought this up. So far TC has simply been bashing minstrel across the board. No experienced chrono would advocate for running minstrel on all bosses, I think many regulars have made that clear already. Yet it would be possible (and as mentioned, if we are min-maxing then there is a ton of things which a group could do BEFORE replacing the minstrel chrono)2.) running minstrel on all bosses is safe. Most PUGs are bad. Enough said.3.) Gearing a chrono is expensive. Not all players have 40 ascended sets and multiple thousand gold at their disposal. Chronos are rare.4.) the skill level of a chrono can vary gear independent. There is nothing wrong with making the first set full minstrel and working from there. I personally would take an inexperienced minstrel chrono over an inexperienced berserker chrono any day (when running training or helping my guild, I usually FC on mondays with experienced groups so not really an issue personally)5.) Bosses I would expect people to use minstrel on in a PUG setting: Potentially Xera if running solo druid, Deimos, Desmina and Dhuum. The trade off for personal survivability is just to useful for low and mid tier PUG groups. Throw in Matthias for added safety since some people just can't deal with that boss.

Yes, there is terrible chronos. There is terrible dps. There terrible healers.

I don't see how taking minstrel as a first set on a tank chrono is in any way a bad idea though. Not everyone has been running this class for 3.5 years in raids or gets the chance to train 6 days a week. I've even tanked all wings in full minstrel when not needed. Why? Because it's just that much more fun to 1shot every boss and carry a PUG team.

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@"Cyninja.2954" said:Yes, there is terrible chronos. There is terrible dps. There terrible healers.

I don't see how taking minstrel as a first set on a tank chrono is in any way a bad idea though. Not everyone has been running this class for 3.5 years in raids or gets the chance to train 6 days a week. I've even tanked all wings in full minstrel when not needed. Why? Because it's just that much more fun to 1shot every boss and carry a PUG team.

Again, excellent posts!

The last passage is one of the most important one for me. If I'm raiding for the first time of the week I want to have my full clear (at least in the past when I was playing this game more regularly). Nothing is easier to have a full minstrel chrono for tanking so everyone else (2nd chrono, some other support builds besides strict meta) do not need to care about toughness and the risk of wiping. It's the same in the lfg (at least in the past), the majority want to kill bosses not speed clearing or running funny/interesting/special tactics. For that, having a full minstrel chrono - of course knowing how to tank and play his role - is the best you can take because it assures that at first you'll have a quite safe perfect boon duration and if anything goes different than expected your chrono won't get oneshotted. I've seen Dhuum runs with overconfident 1100 toughness chronos (Voice of the Void, gazillion of kps) where we wiped several times due to them and not to greens, shackles and other stuff. No need to mentioned we easily killed him later on with a far more tankier chrono.

The damage you need to deal for every boss is so "low" that you can easily run double minstrel chrono + double druid or druid + another healer and the rest 1 warrior + non-super-duper-dps and you don't get into trouble due to the timer. Fact is, even with that comp you have a couple of minutes left on several bosses before you hit the enrage timer.

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I don't see how taking minstrel as a first set on a tank chrono is in any way a bad idea though. Not everyone has been running this class for 3.5 years in raids or gets the chance to train 6 days a week. I've even tanked all wings in full minstrel when not needed. Why? Because it's just that much more fun to 1shot every boss and carry a PUG team.

Thanks for the clarification. Do you rate healing power? or do you think that minstrel is never BiS? Could I satisfy the Dhuum requirements for example by subbing berserker pieces for power/tough/feroc and keeping diviners for 50-60% BD?

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@"8235E844-3CC1-4724-8B86-45063AFE57F3.6259" said:Thanks for the clarification. Do you rate healing power? or do you think that minstrel is never BiS? Could I satisfy the Dhuum requirements for example by subbing >berserker pieces for power/tough/feroc and keeping diviners for 50-60% BD?

Its BiS if you wanna be as tanky as possible. You only need 1101 toughness for Dhuum, since your renegade get 100 with the Mallyx Elite. Technically you also dont need more since the tank gets some damage reduction from the encounter anyway and if played correctly you can block/evade every attack anyway. Buuuuuuuut... If you want to go safer, which is something you should probably do if you arent that exp on the class or your group just sucks in general, swap berserker for Knights while keeping your BD. Knights (Power/Prec/Toughness, main stat toughness) is more optimal.

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  • 1 month later...

@"8235E844-3CC1-4724-8B86-45063AFE57F3.6259" said:Why is anyone ever asking a chrono to go over 1551 toughness?

Bad meme. Chrono is currently the lowest dps support class in the game.

-Boon Tempest (power) 25,377-Boon Tempest (condi) 27,010-Power Quickness Firebrand 22,219-Condi Quickness Firebrand 26,411-Alacrity Renegade 22,185-Boon Herald 27,200

At this point I think it's almost relevant to put down Bannerslave so here are the numbers:

-Banner Warrior 25,427-Power Banner Berserker 29,934-Condition Banner Berserker 31,709

Whilst boon chrono is around 13k dps.... nice meme indeed. Also, almost every comp now are running an alacrity renegade, which makes it pretty much irrelevant to say "but Chrono provide both Alacrity and Quickness" Because if you drop Alacrity Wells, you're still short from 26k dps. Unless you start doing some serious change.

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I play chrono, I run toughness cause I'm to lazy to swap for every different situation when I pug.

Lets be real almost no group will start to look for a different chrono. Hence you can pull this off without getting replaced.

Now if the 2nd chrono really wants to play with 1600 toughness or more, he will be tank. I have a reasonable amount of toughness when I tank and I am not gonna increase it.

So yeah nobody in a pug cares about chrono dps and I can not be asked to have multiple gear sets for a class that ultimately no one wants to play.

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So don't worry about dps, think only abut boons. Someone don't like - leave and put on waiting hit all prev party! And open yours lfg. If ppl understand yours gameplay thay add you on friend list, if not like - they block.

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  • 2 weeks later...

It's probably useless now to post anything in this topic but I do it anyway. I mostly bring in my two cents about PUG groups though, since that is what I do mostly anyway.

Quite frankly I don't understand all this drama, no matter if it's about toughness or BD.

If I'm the tank in rather high damage encounters like Deimos (ranged especially), Xera, SH and Largos, I would be stupid NOT to run minstrel actually and stay alive on my own (again talking about PUG). I dont't know how many low toughness tanks I saw by now at those specific encounters, who wiped multiple times or need perma heals in order not to die, especially Deimos and Xera. Why bother with "higher dps" in a game In PUGs, where there are no hard dps checks? Most of those people in LFG just want their kills. Those chronos trying to be "good and meta" sure as hell don't make that easy. I couldn't personally care less if the boss dies 20 seconds faster or not. Some people just try too hard for literally nothing in LFG, like copying all those meta and speedkill strats while sucking badly at it (no matter if it's raids or fractals)... oh well, that's another topic.

Depending on your weapons (like focus for add control) and the duration of the phase of a boss, you have most likely no time to dps much anyway (plenty of stuff to cast and watch out for).

Out of topic:Not going for 100% BD in PUGs isn't smart either. You can't expect the optimal situation in a random group. Better to put out more duration in the case that people run out of your wells during the fight. I wish some people would pay more attention to boon uptime numbers instead of dps numbers when they play instead of just copying SC gear, even though they can't handle the uptime then.

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read the comments here.. see how people approach is to one another particularly in raids.. this is why I quit raids.people just cant enjoy playing in a team with a group of people respect one another.. you are playing with human. someone in real life you would say hi and smile.a lot of people are just so cruel in the game.. I don't know why.when raids first came out. we had a good friend who tank with warrior hammer it was funny and fun. we were patience with the team .. until later when drama broke out, the team disband. good game friends quit. pugging raids is fast to clear.. but people with no consideration of how the other feels .. it is a place where some people there to find target and then abuse and bully. tired of this already.. its time to retire this content.

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@Talindra.4958 said:read the comments here.. see how people approach is to one another particularly in raids.. this is why I quit raids.people just cant enjoy playing in a team with a group of people respect one another.. you are playing with human. someone in real life you would say hi and smile.a lot of people are just so cruel in the game.. I don't know why.when raids first came out. we had a good friend who tank with warrior hammer it was funny and fun. we were patience with the team .. until later when drama broke out, the team disband. good game friends quit. pugging raids is fast to clear.. but people with no consideration of how the other feels .. it is a place where some people there to find target and then abuse and bully. tired of this already.. its time to retire this content.

Find a more tollerant group of people to raid with mate.

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@Linken.6345 tried :) a lot of post LF people, I made team too. but often faster to pug. not the life style I am after in game. but not trying to stop anyone from playing. many prefer this gaming life style so by all means. me.. like many other long time raiders, retire :) unless someone invite, otherwise log in game.. see see look look.. change armor.. take screenshot.. say hello to some friends.. and go afk.

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  • 1 year later...

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