TFW Power Reaper is worse than Power Scourge....

[Refia Montes.3205]

Title... why Anet.

[Davi.4920]

How does a power scourge work may I ask? I thought it was heavily condi.

[Dadnir.5038]

@Davi.4920 said:How does a power scourge work may I ask? I thought it was heavily condi.

That's extremly simple. You take a basic power necro and put desert shroud damage on top of it without ever being bothered with a transform skill that put you away from your utilities. It's not because you see a lot of condition on the scourge that it can't do power damage, the spec is totall hybrid like reaper's.

[Murdock.6547]

I think with unrealistic buffs reaper hits 35k dps? realistic I think it's like 29k maybe 30k? I could be giving it too much/not enough credit of course. Nobody bothers to benchmark power reaper these days.But uh, it's not exactly hard to beat it lol.

[Refia Montes.3205]

@Murdock.6547 said:I think with unrealistic buffs reaper hits 35k dps? realistic I think it's like 29k maybe 30k? I could be giving it too much/not enough credit of course. Nobody bothers to benchmark power reaper these days.But uh, it's not exactly hard to beat it lol.

Wait best benchmark I can do is 26k dps on Power Reaper. Build and Rotation?

[Oldirtbeard.9834]

I've got 2 ascended Daggers and an Ascended Axe, can I make this work for a Power Scourge build, what traits are we talking Soul Reaping, Spite, Scourge, or Blood thrown in some where? Do you basically just spam weapon skills to fill the life force bar and then rely solely on the F abilities? I'm assuming you equip wells to fill life force faster?

All these people brag but no ones willing to help.

[Kam.4092]

What's the build?

[KrHome.1920]

PvE:Power Reaper DPS = Power Scourge (no shades) DPSThe moment when you cast shades, the current mechanic of multiple strikes on F-skill usage boosts the Power Scourge DPS by 50% and outclasses Power Reaper. We don't need to talk about sustain at this point. It's hard to die as a Scourge in PvE.

PvP:Since no one stands in your shades the damage is pretty much the same while Reaper has a lot more sustain. The power burst capability of both specs is also the same. Besides that Scourge is much more difficult to play as it is overloaded with low cooldown skills that have litte impact (e.g. cast three barriers in a row (F3, F5, Heal) to sustain one single burst attack). Other classes just press the Block button (or even autoproc) That's what I call bad class design (e.g. one skill that grants a huge +50% HP barrier but has a longer CD, would be much better).

So currently there is no reason to run Power Scourge over Power Reaper in PvP except you want to stay at range at any cost in a WvW zerg fight.

In PvE, Power Scourge is much better when mobs stand in your shades.

[Obtena.7952]

@Refia Montes.3205 said:Title... why Anet.

Why not? Why does any particular spec need to keep it's DPS rank with respect to any other?

[Oldirtbeard.9834]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Refia Montes.3205 said:Title... why Anet.

Why not? Why does any particular spec need to keep it's DPS rank with respect to any other?

Because that's a standard of quality we expect from games such as WoW or even Diablo 3s class balance which has a smaller balance team than GW2 (while not an MMO they still need to be competitive in high lvl instances so that they can compete on leader boards).

Implying that lack luster balance with such a wide range of DPS is acceptable in an MMO either suggests ignorance playing this genre or people suffering from Stockholm Syndrome accepting ANets lackadaisical approach to investing in proper staffing for class balance.

These are not solely my views, as long as you have a passing familiarity with youtubers such as Mighty Teapot, Nike, and the Bad Builds Guy they frequently discuss the balance teams limitations on Tea Time.

[Substatic.6958]

whats power scourge build please

[Dadnir.5038]

@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:Because that's a standard of quality we expect from games such as WoW or even Diablo 3s class balance which has a smaller balance team than GW2 (while not an MMO they still need to be competitive in high lvl instances so that they can compete on leader boards).

Really? I didn't think that gw2 had a balance team. Isn't it a side job that they ask there content developper to do on their free time?

[Obtena.7952]

@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Refia Montes.3205 said:Title... why Anet.

Why not? Why does any particular spec need to keep it's DPS rank with respect to any other?

Because that's a standard of quality we expect from games such as WoW or even Diablo 3s class balance which has a smaller balance team than GW2 (while not an MMO they still need to be competitive in high lvl instances so that they can compete on leader boards).

Implying that lack luster balance with such a wide range of DPS is acceptable in an MMO either suggests ignorance playing this genre or people suffering from Stockholm Syndrome accepting ANets lackadaisical approach to investing in proper staffing for class balance.

These are not solely my views, as long as you have a passing familiarity with youtubers such as Mighty Teapot, Nike, and the Bad Builds Guy they frequently discuss the balance teams limitations on Tea Time.

What happens in other games is irrelevant. Expect whatever you will ... we have 5 years of GW2 experience to know what the expectation for balance is, the dev behaviour and the flavour of THIS GAME is. You're going to continually expect something Anet doesn't deliver and from what I can see, they don't even try to do. Maintaining an expectation from OTHER games for THIS game is unreasonable, regardless of all the youtubers you want to quote. The fact remains that balance, as you understand it, is not a priority or even a thing in this game.

I can't actually see a reason any particular spec must be more or less DPS than any other, regardless of the spec. Forget spec, ... even at the build level, we have optimal DPS. This is how it's been since day 1. It's got zero to do with balance; it's the result of game design. It's a fool's errand to bother making a whole bunch of equivalent meta builds across builds across especs and across classes. If Wow and Diablo deliver balance and it's a huge factor to you, go play them. If this balance is a massive factor in your choice to play games, choice wisely.

[Quells.2498]

@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:I've got 2 ascended Daggers and an Ascended Axe, can I make this work for a Power Scourge build, what traits are we talking Soul Reaping, Spite, Scourge, or Blood thrown in some where? Do you basically just spam weapon skills to fill the life force bar and then rely solely on the F abilities? I'm assuming you equip wells to fill life force faster?

All these people brag but no ones willing to help.

Dagger and Axe tend to create enough life force in addition to the many deaths that will be happening around you. I'd suggest using axe/warhorn and dagger/torch for utility. Warhorn and Torch will give you good cc options to take care of break bars. The traits are really up in the air as the Scourge doesn't really ask you to commit to anything in particular. I personally went with Spite, Curses and Scourge for a hybrid build. So far Shades seem pretty useless to me. As others have said nothing just stands there in the Shade unless you're going toe to toe with it. Because of that I tend to use the trait that makes the Shade larger and just cast it on top of myself while using dagger.

[vicious.5683]

Bravo Anet, I guess you are proud of yourself.

[Oldirtbeard.9834]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Refia Montes.3205 said:Title... why Anet.

Why not? Why does any particular spec need to keep it's DPS rank with respect to any other?

Because that's a standard of quality we expect from games such as WoW or even Diablo 3s class balance which has a smaller balance team than GW2 (while not an MMO they still need to be competitive in high lvl instances so that they can compete on leader boards).

Implying that lack luster balance with such a wide range of DPS is acceptable in an MMO either suggests ignorance playing this genre or people suffering from Stockholm Syndrome accepting ANets lackadaisical approach to investing in proper staffing for class balance.

These are not solely my views, as long as you have a passing familiarity with youtubers such as Mighty Teapot, Nike, and the Bad Builds Guy they frequently discuss the balance teams limitations on Tea Time.

What happens in other games is irrelevant. Expect whatever you will ... we have 5 years of GW2 experience to know what the expectation for balance is, the dev behaviour and the flavour of THIS GAME is. You're going to continually expect something Anet doesn't deliver and from what I can see, they don't even try to do. Maintaining an expectation from OTHER games for THIS game is unreasonable, regardless of all the youtubers you want to quote. The fact remains that balance, as you understand it, is not a priority or even a thing in this game.

I can't actually see a reason any particular spec must be more or less DPS than any other, regardless of the spec. Forget spec, ... even at the build level, we have optimal DPS. This is how it's been since day 1. It's got zero to do with balance; it's the result of game design. It's a fool's errand to bother making a whole bunch of equivalent meta builds across builds across especs and across classes. If Wow and Diablo deliver balance and it's a huge factor to you, go play them. If this balance is a massive factor in your choice to play games, choice wisely.

Of course its relevant, GW2 will always be compared against its peers, if they're really interested in creating a bustling End Game PVE scene that attracts people from other games in the genre then they sure do not want to have a reputation of going halfway like a bunch of amateurs. I can guarantee you that when I'm on MMO enthusiast sites I'm sure not using raids and their stellar balance to try to bring people aboard I tell them that GW2 is about Open World group content and massive 3 way PVP servers in WVWVW and that if they want to come for the raiding don't bother because between the balance and band aid application of tanks and healers that it's amateur hour.

[Kam.4092]

@Substatic.6958 said:whats power scourge build please

I used thishttp://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQRBIhdu1JDNQLNYbNgjNAbvYBXwgGABgWA1ZoNEt0TsN2KLA-jhRBAB4pfAgnAAlq/c1+jyPzUC+wJBIAwBw5Nv5NP48zP/8zPvrP/8zP/8zP/8zPPA-e

I sustained 32k DPS on the 4 million HP Golem, and did 40k+ bursts on the 1 million HP Golem.

It's pretty much just spamming Mainhand Dagger auto, and using Warhorn 5. It allows you to spam F2, F3 and F5.

The 3 Shade burst at the start spam hits 40k-80k with Desert Shroud, and it's the same for Ghastly Breach. The Power scaling of these 2 skills is absurd for a Condition focused Elite like Scourge is.

Well of Suffering is used because Well of Corruption has too long of a CD, and you don't run Blood Magic, so Wells are weaker anyway. I use Blood Fiend because it's just a great heal with DPS, I also don't use Sadistic Searing as Power Scourge. Shadow Fiend is amazing for both Condition and Power Scourge, because of the 10% Life Force on its skill, and the fact that Shadow Fiend Damage got buffed by 50% a while back.

The build is fun, but I don't really see the point outside of just wanting to mess around. I mean the build has a ton more CC than Condition Scourge, which may be helpful in Fractal and Dungeon pugs, but losing out on the amazing Condition DPS of Scourge with Epidemic is something you'd want to avoid.

Also Power Scourge is just harder to maintain if a target moves. It's honestly just a fun and silly build that I wouldn't run outside of Open World, and low Fractal scales. It may be better for Scale 40 Farm though since Condition Scourge does so much Burning, and the Effigy is immune to Burning.

[Oldirtbeard.9834]

@Kam.4092 said:

@Substatic.6958 said:whats power scourge build please

I used this

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQRBIhdu1JDNQLNYbNgjNAbvYBXwgGABgWA1ZoNEt0TsN2KLA-jhRBAB4pfAgnAAlq/c1+jyPzUC+wJBIAwBw5Nv5NP48zP/8zPvrP/8zP/8zP/8zPPA-e

I sustained 32k DPS on the 4 million HP Golem, and did 40k+ bursts on the 1 million HP Golem.

It's pretty much just spamming Mainhand Dagger auto, and using Warhorn 5. It allows you to spam F2, F3 and F5.

The 3 Shade burst at the start spam hits 40k-80k with Desert Shroud, and it's the same for Ghastly Breach. The Power scaling of these 2 skills is absurd for a Condition focused Elite like Scourge is.

Well of Suffering is used because Well of Corruption has too long of a CD, and you don't run Blood Magic, so Wells are weaker anyway. I use Blood Fiend because it's just a great heal with DPS, I also don't use Sadistic Searing as Power Scourge. Shadow Fiend is amazing for both Condition and Power Scourge, because of the 10% Life Force on its skill, and the fact that Shadow Fiend Damage got buffed by 50% a while back.

The build is fun, but I don't really see the point outside of just wanting to mess around. I mean the build has a ton more CC than Condition Scourge, which may be helpful in Fractal and Dungeon pugs, but losing out on the amazing Condition DPS of Scourge with Epidemic is something you'd want to avoid.

Also Power Scourge is just harder to maintain if a target moves. It's honestly just a fun and silly build that I wouldn't run outside of Open World, and low Fractal scales. It may be better for Scale 40 Farm though since Condition Scourge does so much Burning, and the Effigy is immune to Burning.

What about Axe/Dagger?

I could throw my Vipers trinkets on to make it a hybrid build perhaps

[Oldirtbeard.9834]

@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:

@Kam.4092 said:

@Substatic.6958 said:whats power scourge build please

I used this

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQRBIhdu1JDNQLNYbNgjNAbvYBXwgGABgWA1ZoNEt0TsN2KLA-jhRBAB4pfAgnAAlq/c1+jyPzUC+wJBIAwBw5Nv5NP48zP/8zPvrP/8zP/8zP/8zPPA-e

I sustained 32k DPS on the 4 million HP Golem, and did 40k+ bursts on the 1 million HP Golem.

It's pretty much just spamming Mainhand Dagger auto, and using Warhorn 5. It allows you to spam F2, F3 and F5.

The 3 Shade burst at the start spam hits 40k-80k with Desert Shroud, and it's the same for Ghastly Breach. The Power scaling of these 2 skills is absurd for a Condition focused Elite like Scourge is.

Well of Suffering is used because Well of Corruption has too long of a CD, and you don't run Blood Magic, so Wells are weaker anyway. I use Blood Fiend because it's just a great heal with DPS, I also don't use Sadistic Searing as Power Scourge. Shadow Fiend is amazing for both Condition and Power Scourge, because of the 10% Life Force on its skill, and the fact that Shadow Fiend Damage got buffed by 50% a while back.

The build is fun, but I don't really see the point outside of just wanting to mess around. I mean the build has a ton more CC than Condition Scourge, which may be helpful in Fractal and Dungeon pugs, but losing out on the amazing Condition DPS of Scourge with Epidemic is something you'd want to avoid.

Also Power Scourge is just harder to maintain if a target moves. It's honestly just a fun and silly build that I wouldn't run outside of Open World, and low Fractal scales. It may be better for Scale 40 Farm though since Condition Scourge does so much Burning, and the Effigy is immune to Burning.

What about Axe/Dagger?

I could throw my Vipers trinkets on to make it a hybrid build perhaps

I could turn my weapons to Viper as well I guess

[AlexanderDracul.7492]

Well the idea for scourge is that we traded a second healthbar for damage. So it's fitting that power scourge and condi scourge out dps power reaper and condi reaper.

[Refia Montes.3205]

No the idea of Scourge is to remove the selfish aspect of Shroud to a more supportive barrier which he can share. It also focuses on boon corruption more than Reaper. It shouldn't have more Power Damage than Reaper in that way. Reaper is more of a Powerful heavy hitting juggernaut that relies on Chills so that the foe can't escape.

[Arzurag.7506]

Well, under realistic circumstances a power-reaper with this build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNBhOD7kZToxGscTwbTgeTskLYQBgGwKIuK2FHjUlh1wzC-jBSBABYp8DPdDB8AAoZ/BAuIAUq+ziKBJ4IAAA-e, can maintain round about 16k-17k dps.I haven´t tested scourge that much yet.The only thing I´ve noticed is that half of scourge´s damage comes from conditions, no matter how much power, crit and ferocity I had.However reaper still remains superior for me due shroud and its survivability.

(realistic circumstances means in solo-open-world-pve no external buffs/debuffs except those you can give/maintain yourself, in this case 25 stacks might and 25 stacks vulnerability)

[Zoltreez.6435]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Refia Montes.3205 said:Title... why Anet.

Why not? Why does any particular spec need to keep it's DPS rank with respect to any other?

oh pls tell me your not serious..........someone tell me he is not serious....

with that logic we could esentialy delete all other trait lines and builds and weapons because that particular spec does everything better...

go to Wiki and search for the definition of Balance pls.....

[Kam.4092]

@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:

@Kam.4092 said:

@Substatic.6958 said:whats power scourge build please

I used this

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQRBIhdu1JDNQLNYbNgjNAbvYBXwgGABgWA1ZoNEt0TsN2KLA-jhRBAB4pfAgnAAlq/c1+jyPzUC+wJBIAwBw5Nv5NP48zP/8zPvrP/8zP/8zP/8zPPA-e

I sustained 32k DPS on the 4 million HP Golem, and did 40k+ bursts on the 1 million HP Golem.

It's pretty much just spamming Mainhand Dagger auto, and using Warhorn 5. It allows you to spam F2, F3 and F5.

The 3 Shade burst at the start spam hits 40k-80k with Desert Shroud, and it's the same for Ghastly Breach. The Power scaling of these 2 skills is absurd for a Condition focused Elite like Scourge is.

Well of Suffering is used because Well of Corruption has too long of a CD, and you don't run Blood Magic, so Wells are weaker anyway. I use Blood Fiend because it's just a great heal with DPS, I also don't use Sadistic Searing as Power Scourge. Shadow Fiend is amazing for both Condition and Power Scourge, because of the 10% Life Force on its skill, and the fact that Shadow Fiend Damage got buffed by 50% a while back.

The build is fun, but I don't really see the point outside of just wanting to mess around. I mean the build has a ton more CC than Condition Scourge, which may be helpful in Fractal and Dungeon pugs, but losing out on the amazing Condition DPS of Scourge with Epidemic is something you'd want to avoid.

Also Power Scourge is just harder to maintain if a target moves. It's honestly just a fun and silly build that I wouldn't run outside of Open World, and low Fractal scales. It may be better for Scale 40 Farm though since Condition Scourge does so much Burning, and the Effigy is immune to Burning.

What about Axe/Dagger?

I could throw my Vipers trinkets on to make it a hybrid build perhaps

I don't think a hybrid build would work with Viper's mixed in. Maybe Grieving would be good.

I was going to try Power Scourge with Accuracy over Air Sigils. I forgot it loses Deicmate Defences from Reaper, and another 7% Crit chance may be huge.

[vicious.5683]

@AlexanderDracul.7492 said:Well the idea for scourge is that we traded a second healthbar for damage. So it's fitting that power scourge and condi scourge out dps power reaper and condi reaper.

I never get when people say Shroud is a health bar.scourge has barriers, that's like a second healthbar too?