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TFW Power Reaper is worse than Power Scourge....


Refia Montes.3205

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@Obtena.7952 said:

@"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said:Ignore Obtena. He's a troll that thinks he works for ANet.

No, I'm just someone that actually makes relevant observations on how the game actually works; a stark contrast to the way people invent how they think the game is and impose those ideas onto Anet like it's relevant to them.

I mean, if you have examples where Anet maintained a status quo for DPS rank because they labeled something "power spec", feel free to show them ... otherwise, just keep thinking wrong I guess. I suppose I'm so bad at observing how the game works that I should still be expecting a condition to be added to dagger to fix LF regen in Scourge too, AMIRITE?

See, if you were correct, then I can get money from ANet for false advertising. Why? Because ANet actually described the spec as a Power brawler spec with Deathly Chill thrown in for a reason for condition builds to consider using it. Don't believe me? Look up the introduction videos and streams from when Reaper was first announced. ANet was incredibly clear that Reaper was designed as a Power-based bruiser specialization. They haven't said anything contrary to that.

So, seriously, quit pretending to know what ANet wants. You'll be taken more seriously if you do.

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Yes, if you ever get money from Anet for false advertising, let me know. :s

IF Anet did describe it that way, then 1) it was before PoF was released when that was probably a more accurate description and 2) that description says nothing about maintaining some DPS rank reaper has with any other spec, past or future. I'm not here to talk about whatever label or description Reaper has; it's quite irrelevant. The question is if it's unreasonable that the DPS rank of a build has changed; it's not if you understand how MMO's work and evolve over time.

I'm not pretending anything. If Anet WANTED to maintain DPS rankings for various builds/specs/classes, then they WOULD maintain those DPS rankings. I don't need to pretend, it's an obvious observation that they don't do this. These ranking simply ebb and flow however the game changes affect them. There is no care taken to maintain them. It's ironic that you don't think I'm taken seriously because I make relevant observations on how the game works and it's history ... but you imply others are taken seriously when they invent how they think the game should work and conclude there is something wrong with the game because it doesn't match the mental fantasy? That's just WOW. I guess that's how condi on dagger auto makes sense to you as a solution for LF regen on Scourge? I can see that.

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I know I complain about the DPS Power Reaper bench marks at but then I'm very self sufficient in Open World, I'm not completely shunned in Fractals, and lets face it I haven't been a raider since 2010 in WoW.

Yeah I don't have a set of Air Jordans how ever I've got a broken comfortable pair of hiking boots with durable steel toes (that's an analogy by the way).

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@Kam.4092 said:

@Substatic.6958 said:whats power scourge build please

I used this

I sustained 32k DPS on the 4 million HP Golem, and did 40k+ bursts on the 1 million HP Golem.

It's pretty much just spamming Mainhand Dagger auto, and using Warhorn 5. It allows you to spam F2, F3 and F5.

The 3 Shade burst at the start spam hits 40k-80k with Desert Shroud, and it's the same for Ghastly Breach. The Power scaling of these 2 skills is absurd for a Condition focused Elite like Scourge is.

Well of Suffering is used because Well of Corruption has too long of a CD, and you don't run Blood Magic, so Wells are weaker anyway. I use Blood Fiend because it's just a great heal with DPS, I also don't use Sadistic Searing as Power Scourge. Shadow Fiend is amazing for both Condition and Power Scourge, because of the 10% Life Force on its skill, and the fact that Shadow Fiend Damage got buffed by 50% a while back.

The build is fun, but I don't really see the point outside of just wanting to mess around. I mean the build has a ton more CC than Condition Scourge, which may be helpful in Fractal and Dungeon pugs, but losing out on the amazing Condition DPS of Scourge with Epidemic is something you'd want to avoid.

Also Power Scourge is just harder to maintain if a target moves. It's honestly just a fun and silly build that I wouldn't run outside of Open World, and low Fractal scales. It may be better for Scale 40 Farm though since Condition Scourge does so much Burning, and the Effigy is immune to Burning.

Takes Fel Beacon.... has no condi damage or torch.... what?

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Anyone arguing that Reaper wasn't intended to be a Power spec is being silly. Behold, the Superior Rune of the Reaper.

(1): +25 Power(2): +35 Toughness(3): +50 Power(4): +65 Toughness(5): +100 Power(6): When executing a shout skill, chill nearby enemies for 1 second (360 radius).

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Reaper's thematic was based around chill. Neither condition damage nor power damage, just chill. Thought after the few first weeks, chill took the hard nerf bat in it's teeth. Also, if power reaper is disappointing it's mostly because core necromancer doesn't have what's needed to make it shine.

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@pah.4931 said:Anyone arguing that Reaper wasn't intended to be a Power spec is being silly. Behold, the Superior Rune of the Reaper.

(1): +25 Power(2): +35 Toughness(3): +50 Power(4): +65 Toughness(5): +100 Power(6): When executing a shout skill, chill nearby enemies for 1 second (360 radius).

You can't tell people that who are purposely trying to be obtuse that. It's ironic he point out the contradictions in the thinking of others, but forgets to point out the gaping flaws in his own logic.

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@Obtena.7952 said:You can say it all you want, but the label 'power spec' doesn't actually mean anything; it's a player-made concept. I have never heard Anet label any build or specifically use that term. The issues you think exist with core or reaper have nothing to do with Scourge so the idea that there is something wrong with Scourge having 'the power DPS' build on this class is nonsense to begin with.

They have everything to do with scourge, if it brings up a build that gets the results we have been asking for for almost 5 years now. I never said anything about scourge having a power dps build being a problem. If you had bothered to read at all, I said specifically that the problem was scourges power dps being better than a spec specifically designed with traits for power, while not having a single power modifier, while reaper has them in every slot.

I can't tell if you are being obtuse and dense, or just plain dishonest. Either way, it doesn't matter what I or you say, it's about what one can prove. And I have proven that failing to do something when you intend to do it, and doing it by accident due to an oversight of interactions. Is a problem.

@Obtena.7952 said:There isn't anything disrespectful pointing out the flaws in the thinking that people exhibit, especially if we have 5 years of game experience that contradict that thinking. Anet does not target any build for 'power spec'. Anet does not care for whatever build ranks highest in DPS. That's not how the game is developed or evolves. There is nothing egotistical by observing these things based on the history of the game. If Anet WANTED to make reaper the highest DPS power spec on this class, they would have MADE reaper the highest power DPS spec on this class. I don't need an ego to figure this out.

Firstly you didn't point out a flaw in someones thinking. You made a claim about someone's thinking. One you can't back up, and still haven't. Are we playing internet fortune teller now?

And even if you did prove that about people in general, you would still fall flat when discussing individuals.

Or do i need to explain to you how generalities work? It's funny you point out flaws in the thinking of others, while conveniently forgetting that doing so, in a context in which it can't be applied, is a flaw in your own thinking. No, what is disrespectful is claiming someone thinks something that they haven't stated they do, and then bringing up a false dichotomy to make yourself seem more rational when its actually fallacious, and downright laughable.

Anet doesn't need to care what build ranks what dps. What they do need to care about however, is how certain stat combos perform on their classes in comparison to others. You know, kind of like what i mentioned before. The problem isn't just power scaling. The problem is the weapons themselves. Are you saying Anet shouldn't care about that?

As for your comment about power reaper, and making it THE power dps spec. All you need to do is look at almost every change made to reaper since its release. Almost every single change, and every single trait in geared to make reaper a bruiser power damage dealing spec. And guess what the one outlier is? Deathly chill. So if deathly chill is the outlier, what sane person is gonna base their opinion of what it is supposed to do....based on that outlier? It makes zero sense.

@Obtena.7952 said:If you have interest in doing the highest DPS, you TAKE the highest DPS build available, regardless of what it is. This is not a new concept; this is the way the game has worked for every class since day 1. Again, this is not me being 'out of my depth'. It's simply observing how the game works. If you spent thousands of gold minmaxing power reapers AND expected that no game change would affect the state of it's DPS relative to other things, then YOU have made a fundamental error based on your lack of understanding on how this game, and MMO's in general, work and evolve over time.

My you are a cocky one. I'll bite.

No one said they are interested in the 'highest dps'. Strawman much?What we said, is we are interested in reaper doing COMPARABLE dps, using the spec as it was designed, specifically on a power build. You absolutely refuse to address the argument made.

And firstly i never said I invested that gold expecting anything to change. Liar much? I said i invested that gold because it is my favorite build, due to how it plays. And partially to show that it is not properly balanced. For what? For people like you to tell me i was wrong for doing that which i wanted? Or the fact you yourself just agreed that power reaper is far behind even power scourge? Which was why i invested the gold in the first place? Because people seem to think power reaper is 'fine'.

But thank you for agreeing that it is not, because that's the only point i ever wanted to make.

@Obtena.7952 said:Go ahead and worry about it ... that doesn't make it a relevant worry based on how the game works. If you play a second-rate DPS build and like it and are successful with it, then I don't even get the problem here. You just proved that the DPS that the build does really doesn't matter in the first place; a position I've held since the day I was told I was 'selfish' for playing non-meta builds. There isn't anything wrong with playing a build you like and winning with it; I believe that's how the game should be played and CAN be played.

There also isn't anything wrong with wanting a build you currently play, to have a space in viability, when it doesn't have a reason NOT to be. But its funny how thats ok for you, but not for me.

You haven't stated a single reason for power reaper to remain in its current state of mediocrity. All you have done is say i shouldn't voice a problem with it.

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@Broski.3294 said:

@Kam.4092 said:

@Substatic.6958 said:whats power scourge build please

I used this

I sustained 32k DPS on the 4 million HP Golem, and did 40k+ bursts on the 1 million HP Golem.

It's pretty much just spamming Mainhand Dagger auto, and using Warhorn 5. It allows you to spam F2, F3 and F5.

The 3 Shade burst at the start spam hits 40k-80k with Desert Shroud, and it's the same for Ghastly Breach. The Power scaling of these 2 skills is absurd for a Condition focused Elite like Scourge is.

Well of Suffering is used because Well of Corruption has too long of a CD, and you don't run Blood Magic, so Wells are weaker anyway. I use Blood Fiend because it's just a great heal with DPS, I also don't use Sadistic Searing as Power Scourge. Shadow Fiend is amazing for both Condition and Power Scourge, because of the 10% Life Force on its skill, and the fact that Shadow Fiend Damage got buffed by 50% a while back.

The build is fun, but I don't really see the point outside of just wanting to mess around. I mean the build has a ton more CC than Condition Scourge, which may be helpful in Fractal and Dungeon pugs, but losing out on the amazing Condition DPS of Scourge with Epidemic is something you'd want to avoid.

Also Power Scourge is just harder to maintain if a target moves. It's honestly just a fun and silly build that I wouldn't run outside of Open World, and low Fractal scales. It may be better for Scale 40 Farm though since Condition Scourge does so much Burning, and the Effigy is immune to Burning.

Takes Fel Beacon.... has no condi damage or torch.... what?

And it STILL out dpses power reaper.

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