If we want balance for WvW we're going to have to force the issue.

[Aeolus.3615]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Justine.6351 said:A little dishonest since scourge has been gutted by patches.

Back when deathly chill trailblazer reapers were trashing WvW I made a joke about making marks pulse. Enter left stage, Shades. I apologise.

Necro staff and the shade mechanic need to be rewritten to not be on-point ranged lingering-aoe spamming bots.

Scourge may not be OP everywhere else but they are obsurd in wvw and need toned down aoe spam wise very badly.

Imo i think the issue is how the game is overloaded with aoe spambility, not scourge alone, scourge is more noticeable due the amount or bnlinking circles we have.

Its an overall design issue, not scourge alone.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Aeolus.3615 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Justine.6351 said:A little dishonest since scourge has been gutted by patches.

Back when deathly chill trailblazer reapers were trashing WvW I made a joke about making marks pulse. Enter left stage, Shades. I apologise.

Necro staff and the shade mechanic need to be rewritten to not be on-point ranged lingering-aoe spamming bots.

Scourge may not be OP everywhere else but they are obsurd in wvw and need toned down aoe spam wise very badly.

Imo i think the issue is how the game is overloaded with aoe spambility, not scourge alone, scourge is more noticeable due the amount or bnlinking circles we have.

Its an overall design issue, not scourge alone.

I agree for sure. I dont think scourge in itself is really OP it's just they way scourges mechanics work in wvw make it very oppressive in the mode as know class alone should impact and or influence the playstyle of a whole pvp mode the way scourge does in wvw. I'm only speaking of wvw as scourge isn't really an issue in other modes.

[Safandula.8723]

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"Justine.6351" said:A little dishonest since scourge has been gutted by patches.

Back when deathly chill trailblazer reapers were trashing WvW I made a joke about making marks pulse. Enter left stage, Shades. I apologise.

Necro staff and the shade mechanic need to be rewritten to not be on-point ranged lingering-aoe spamming bots.

Scourge may not be OP everywhere else but they are obsurd in wvw and need toned down aoe spam wise very badly.

Hmmm. "toned down badly". What would you suggest?

Remove big shade, or change traits so that big shades will be useless in zergs(somehow).Also imo good step to start would be to reduce radius of aoe around scourge to a little shade, even if sand savant is traited.

[Aeolus.3615]

@Safandula.8723 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"Justine.6351" said:A little dishonest since scourge has been gutted by patches.

Back when deathly chill trailblazer reapers were trashing WvW I made a joke about making marks pulse. Enter left stage, Shades. I apologise.

Necro staff and the shade mechanic need to be rewritten to not be on-point ranged lingering-aoe spamming bots.

Scourge may not be OP everywhere else but they are obsurd in wvw and need toned down aoe spam wise very badly.

Hmmm. "toned down badly". What would you suggest?

Remove big shade, or change traits so that big shades will be useless in zergs(somehow).Also imo good step to start would be to reduce radius of aoe around scourge to a little shade, even if sand savant is traited.

That would help actually, players would have to put more effort rather than cast big red circles everywhere....anywhere...

[Kylden Ar.3724]

@Safandula.8723 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"Justine.6351" said:A little dishonest since scourge has been gutted by patches.

Back when deathly chill trailblazer reapers were trashing WvW I made a joke about making marks pulse. Enter left stage, Shades. I apologise.

Necro staff and the shade mechanic need to be rewritten to not be on-point ranged lingering-aoe spamming bots.

Scourge may not be OP everywhere else but they are obsurd in wvw and need toned down aoe spam wise very badly.

Hmmm. "toned down badly". What would you suggest?

Remove big shade, or change traits so that big shades will be useless in zergs(somehow).Also imo good step to start would be to reduce radius of aoe around scourge to a little shade, even if sand savant is traited.

I'm of the mind that instead of Big Shade that should instead increase max count of little shades by 2, similar to how the FB trait increases pages.

Still allows to cover a lot of areas, but requires a bit more precision than being a mobile meteor shower.

[Voltekka.2375]

@Safandula.8723 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"Justine.6351" said:A little dishonest since scourge has been gutted by patches.

Back when deathly chill trailblazer reapers were trashing WvW I made a joke about making marks pulse. Enter left stage, Shades. I apologise.

Necro staff and the shade mechanic need to be rewritten to not be on-point ranged lingering-aoe spamming bots.

Scourge may not be OP everywhere else but they are obsurd in wvw and need toned down aoe spam wise very badly.

Hmmm. "toned down badly". What would you suggest?

Remove big shade, or change traits so that big shades will be useless in zergs(somehow).Also imo good step to start would be to reduce radius of aoe around scourge to a little shade, even if sand savant is traited.

Make a gramdmaster trait useless in zergs, cause in pve noone uses it anyway. Awesome idea.

[Safandula.8723]

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"Justine.6351" said:A little dishonest since scourge has been gutted by patches.

Back when deathly chill trailblazer reapers were trashing WvW I made a joke about making marks pulse. Enter left stage, Shades. I apologise.

Necro staff and the shade mechanic need to be rewritten to not be on-point ranged lingering-aoe spamming bots.

Scourge may not be OP everywhere else but they are obsurd in wvw and need toned down aoe spam wise very badly.

Hmmm. "toned down badly". What would you suggest?

Remove big shade, or change traits so that big shades will be useless in zergs(somehow).Also imo good step to start would be to reduce radius of aoe around scourge to a little shade, even if sand savant is traited.

Make a gramdmaster trait useless in zergs, cause in pve noone uses it anyway. Awesome idea.

cuz zerging is only thing u can do in wvw. and big shade is usefull as heal scourge, i think scourge was intended to be support

[Slanderman.9532]

simple fix would be redesign shades. Here is one idea: Make the shades only target 3ppl but with lingering effect, so when you hit someone with shade they get debuff which is not cleansable but on its own it doesnt do dmg, getting hit by another shade by same scourge could trigger some dmg effect. f5 would have small detonation time which the player who was hit by shade can see, so he can dodge the effect possibly. So basically delete the aoe field and replace it with more single target oriented shades.

[Kaiser.9873]

Hmmm, Scourge this, Scourge that, but no mention of the fact that without strong support a Scourge is meat for the grinder. No toning down 12K Drop the Hammer? 10K CoR? Scourge been hammered every patch, and yet let's go ahead and keep cutting.

You really want to nuke Scourge? Make them choose whether they want ranged shades, or self-centered shades.

[Swagger.1459]

@Kylden Ar.3724 said:@"Kaiser.9873" I actually don't play Mesmer much in WvW the last 6 months, been experimenting more and playing more Ranger as it doesn't cost a kitten-ton to regear after every patch, but you go right on with your biases.

The simple fact of the matter is the meta is virtually unchanged with each balance patch since PoF hit. If you don't see how that's a problem for the mode well... ANet's eSports dreams would like a word with you.

Aight buddy, let's nerf those AoEs and balance Necro better! https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/58958/eye-on-necromancer-for-2019

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Kaiser.9873 said:Hmmm, Scourge this, Scourge that, but no mention of the fact that without strong support a Scourge is meat for the grinder. No toning down 12K Drop the Hammer? 10K CoR? Scourge been hammered every patch, and yet let's go ahead and keep cutting.

You really want to nuke Scourge? Make them choose whether they want ranged shades, or self-centered shades.

Lmao a rev hammer is trivial compared to a scourges impact in a zerg.sure its effective in a zerg but not even close to the same level as scourge.no zerg lives or dies by rev hammers and rev hammers aren't responsible for the whole playstyles that zergs follow now,as a matter of fact rev hammer is widely used and effective as a way to try and combat the scourge spamming as it allows u to hit from ranged and not get instant dead by the condi aoe puke. I wonder how popular rev hammer would be if scourges didnt oppress zergs into ranged battles? I certainly wouldn't be using hammer if zergs were melee oriented.Also them needing support doesnt change anything.scourge isn't OP in other modes but its mechanic is obsurd OP because the way wvw is and the fact there will always be supports within the zergs.

[Voltekka.2375]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"Kaiser.9873" said:Hmmm, Scourge this, Scourge that, but no mention of the fact that without strong support a Scourge is meat for the grinder. No toning down 12K Drop the Hammer? 10K CoR? Scourge been hammered every patch, and yet let's go ahead and keep cutting.

You really want to nuke Scourge? Make them choose whether they want ranged shades, or self-centered shades.

Lmao a rev hammer is trivial compared to a scourges impact in a zerg.sure its effective in a zerg but not even close to the same level as scourge.no zerg lives or dies by rev hammers and rev hammers aren't responsible for the whole playstyles that zergs follow now,as a matter of fact rev hammer is widely used and effective as a way to try and combat the scourge spamming as it allows u to hit from ranged and not get instant dead by the condi aoe puke. I wonder how popular rev hammer would be if scourges didnt oppress zergs into ranged battles? I certainly wouldn't be using hammer if zergs were melee oriented.Also them needing support doesnt change anything.scourge isn't OP in other modes but its mechanic is obsurd OP because the way wvw is and the fact there will always be supports within the zergs.

You have 0 idea about zerging. It is pretty obvious from the "rev hammer is trivial compared to scourge in zergs".

[Safandula.8723]

@Kaiser.9873 said:Hmmm, Scourge this, Scourge that, but no mention of the fact that without strong support a Scourge is meat for the grinder. No toning down 12K Drop the Hammer? 10K CoR? Scourge been hammered every patch, and yet let's go ahead and keep cutting.

You really want to nuke Scourge? Make them choose whether they want ranged shades, or self-centered shades.

Ofc rev need nerfs as well. But it only needs nerfs, while scourge need mechanic redesign

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Safandula.8723 said:

@Kaiser.9873 said:Hmmm, Scourge this, Scourge that, but no mention of the fact that without strong support a Scourge is meat for the grinder. No toning down 12K Drop the Hammer? 10K CoR? Scourge been hammered every patch, and yet let's go ahead and keep cutting.

You really want to nuke Scourge? Make them choose whether they want ranged shades, or self-centered shades.

Ofc rev need nerfs as well. But it only needs nerfs, while scourge need mechanic redesign

Yes lmao rev needs nerfs.its core is the most unfinished class and needs its first espec to be considered complete,as when someone says rev herald is implied and its 2nd espec is widely considered worst in the game but herald has high burst like alot of classes so it needs nerfed and nothing else. Somtimes I hate that arenet doesnt seem like the listen to players and other times I'm so glad lol

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"Kaiser.9873" said:Hmmm, Scourge this, Scourge that, but no mention of the fact that without strong support a Scourge is meat for the grinder. No toning down 12K Drop the Hammer? 10K CoR? Scourge been hammered every patch, and yet let's go ahead and keep cutting.

You really want to nuke Scourge? Make them choose whether they want ranged shades, or self-centered shades.

Lmao a rev hammer is trivial compared to a scourges impact in a zerg.sure its effective in a zerg but not even close to the same level as scourge.no zerg lives or dies by rev hammers and rev hammers aren't responsible for the whole playstyles that zergs follow now,as a matter of fact rev hammer is widely used and effective as a way to try and combat the scourge spamming as it allows u to hit from ranged and not get instant dead by the condi aoe puke. I wonder how popular rev hammer would be if scourges didnt oppress zergs into ranged battles? I certainly wouldn't be using hammer if zergs were melee oriented.Also them needing support doesnt change anything.scourge isn't OP in other modes but its mechanic is obsurd OP because the way wvw is and the fact there will always be supports within the zergs.

You have 0 idea about zerging. It is pretty obvious from the "rev hammer is trivial compared to scourge in zergs".

No I zerg all the time and I've zerged on both many many times I'm just not biased. A group of scourges are far more effective than revs and I dont see revs dictating how zergs fight nor cutting off whole sides of structures so defenders cant attack the attackers nor filling a downed entrance into a structure with endless death carpets. I stated revs are definitely very effective but trivial in comparison and I stand by that

[Safandula.8723]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:

@"Kaiser.9873" said:Hmmm, Scourge this, Scourge that, but no mention of the fact that without strong support a Scourge is meat for the grinder. No toning down 12K Drop the Hammer? 10K CoR? Scourge been hammered every patch, and yet let's go ahead and keep cutting.

You really want to nuke Scourge? Make them choose whether they want ranged shades, or self-centered shades.

Ofc rev need nerfs as well. But it only needs nerfs, while scourge need mechanic redesign

Yes lmao rev needs nerfs.its core is the most unfinished class and needs its first espec to be considered complete,as when someone says rev herald is implied and its 2nd espec is widely considered worst in the game but herald has high burst like alot of classes so it needs nerfed and nothing else. Somtimes I hate that arenet doesnt seem like the listen to players and other times I'm so glad lol

i think u dont understand what i was talking about. rev has high melee burst, its fine cuz its squishy, and will die fast if played poorly - high risk high reward. problem is with 5k autoattacks from hammer aa, 15k hammer 2 every 4 s, and just the same numbers from other hammer skills that has pretty dumb range. can u see a diffrence? i love rev, but hammer backline is one of dumbest things in this game, so plz stop crying that "rev is so bad, plz no nerf"

[Voltekka.2375]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"Kaiser.9873" said:Hmmm, Scourge this, Scourge that, but no mention of the fact that without strong support a Scourge is meat for the grinder. No toning down 12K Drop the Hammer? 10K CoR? Scourge been hammered every patch, and yet let's go ahead and keep cutting.

You really want to nuke Scourge? Make them choose whether they want ranged shades, or self-centered shades.

Lmao a rev hammer is trivial compared to a scourges impact in a zerg.sure its effective in a zerg but not even close to the same level as scourge.no zerg lives or dies by rev hammers and rev hammers aren't responsible for the whole playstyles that zergs follow now,as a matter of fact rev hammer is widely used and effective as a way to try and combat the scourge spamming as it allows u to hit from ranged and not get instant dead by the condi aoe puke. I wonder how popular rev hammer would be if scourges didnt oppress zergs into ranged battles? I certainly wouldn't be using hammer if zergs were melee oriented.Also them needing support doesnt change anything.scourge isn't OP in other modes but its mechanic is obsurd OP because the way wvw is and the fact there will always be supports within the zergs.

You have 0 idea about zerging. It is pretty obvious from the "rev hammer is trivial compared to scourge in zergs".

No I zerg all the time and I've zerged on both many many times I'm just not biased. A group of scourges are far more effective than revs and I dont see revs dictating how zergs fight nor cutting off whole sides of structures so defenders cant attack the attackers nor filling a downed entrance into a structure with endless death carpets. I stated revs are definitely very effective but trivial in comparison and I stand by that

Revs counter scourges. I dont know how revs in YOUR servers play, but they certainly do a lot of somethings wrong if they dont pressure scourges constantly. Youre biased as far as scourges are concerned.

[aspirine.5839]

To balance you first need to see why the blob is so strong. Is it the constant boon spamming, the constant healing or is it just a numbers game.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"Kaiser.9873" said:Hmmm, Scourge this, Scourge that, but no mention of the fact that without strong support a Scourge is meat for the grinder. No toning down 12K Drop the Hammer? 10K CoR? Scourge been hammered every patch, and yet let's go ahead and keep cutting.

You really want to nuke Scourge? Make them choose whether they want ranged shades, or self-centered shades.

Lmao a rev hammer is trivial compared to a scourges impact in a zerg.sure its effective in a zerg but not even close to the same level as scourge.no zerg lives or dies by rev hammers and rev hammers aren't responsible for the whole playstyles that zergs follow now,as a matter of fact rev hammer is widely used and effective as a way to try and combat the scourge spamming as it allows u to hit from ranged and not get instant dead by the condi aoe puke. I wonder how popular rev hammer would be if scourges didnt oppress zergs into ranged battles? I certainly wouldn't be using hammer if zergs were melee oriented.Also them needing support doesnt change anything.scourge isn't OP in other modes but its mechanic is obsurd OP because the way wvw is and the fact there will always be supports within the zergs.

You have 0 idea about zerging. It is pretty obvious from the "rev hammer is trivial compared to scourge in zergs".

No I zerg all the time and I've zerged on both many many times I'm just not biased. A group of scourges are far more effective than revs and I dont see revs dictating how zergs fight nor cutting off whole sides of structures so defenders cant attack the attackers nor filling a downed entrance into a structure with endless death carpets. I stated revs are definitely very effective but trivial in comparison and I stand by that

Revs counter scourges. I dont know how revs in YOUR servers play, but they certainly do a lot of somethings wrong if they dont pressure scourges constantly. Youre biased as far as scourges are concerned.

Was in no way inferring anything regarding how well revs fight against scourges.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Safandula.8723 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:

@"Kaiser.9873" said:Hmmm, Scourge this, Scourge that, but no mention of the fact that without strong support a Scourge is meat for the grinder. No toning down 12K Drop the Hammer? 10K CoR? Scourge been hammered every patch, and yet let's go ahead and keep cutting.

You really want to nuke Scourge? Make them choose whether they want ranged shades, or self-centered shades.

Ofc rev need nerfs as well. But it only needs nerfs, while scourge need mechanic redesign

Yes lmao rev needs nerfs.its core is the most unfinished class and needs its first espec to be considered complete,as when someone says rev herald is implied and its 2nd espec is widely considered worst in the game but herald has high burst like alot of classes so it needs nerfed and nothing else. Somtimes I hate that arenet doesnt seem like the listen to players and other times I'm so glad lol

i think u dont understand what i was talking about. rev has high melee burst, its fine cuz its squishy, and will die fast if played poorly - high risk high reward. problem is with 5k autoattacks from hammer aa, 15k hammer 2 every 4 s, and just the same numbers from other hammer skills that has pretty dumb range. can u see a diffrence? i love rev, but hammer backline is one of dumbest things in this game, so plz stop crying that "rev is so bad, plz no nerf"

I love rev as well and never said they are bad. I implied that burst including hammer is all the class has which isn't alot considering where the games at right now. I'm for burst nerfs across all classes including rev, but rev needs work to bring it up in other areas whether burst nerf happenes or not. There should be more to a class than burst especially considering the 2 especs

[gavyne.6847]

People hate scourges because they corrupt people's precious boons. Many classes live and die by their boons. With their boons up, their sustain is insane, dps is high, and they're nearly unstoppable during pushes. Ever tried to fight a good guild group without enough corrupts? You aren't going to win against them too often as they'll just w key into you and grind on you while sustaining whatever you throw at them. Hence the scourge hate. There's a reason why scourge's current meta is to maximize on corrupt boons rather than pure power. I'm willing to bet if you watch your combat logs, you die less to scourges than you do to heralds and weavers.

To call for scourge nerfs without calling to nerf other obvious over-tuned classes like firebrands, scrappers, heralds, etc.. is disingenuous and biased. As-is heralds and weavers top the dps charts in any engagement longer than 5 seconds (by a large margin), while firebrands and scrappers have perm spots in raid groups. In fact in a guild group of 20'ish, if you have too many scourges and not enough firebrands & scrappers, you're going to have a hard time going up against a more well-rounded guild group with less scourges.

So sure, nerf scourges. I don't think anybody asked for 10 target aoe's, that's on Anet. But if you want to nerf scourges, be sure to nerf the other meta classes as well.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@gavyne.6847 said:People hate scourges because they corrupt people's precious boons. Many classes live and die by their boons. With their boons up, their sustain is insane, dps is high, and they're nearly unstoppable during pushes. Ever tried to fight a good guild group without enough corrupts? You aren't going to win against them too often as they'll just w key into you and grind on you while sustaining whatever you throw at them. Hence the scourge hate. There's a reason why scourge's current meta is to maximize on corrupt boons rather than pure power. I'm willing to bet if you watch your combat logs, you die less to scourges than you do to heralds and weavers.

To call for scourge nerfs without calling to nerf other obvious over-tuned classes like firebrands, scrappers, heralds, etc.. is disingenuous and biased. As-is heralds and weavers top the dps charts in any engagement longer than 5 seconds (by a large margin), while firebrands and heralds have perm spots in raid groups. In fact in a guild group of 20'ish, if you have too many scourges and not enough firebrands & scrappers, you're going to have a hard time going up against a more well-rounded guild group with less scourges.

So sure, nerf scourges. I don't think anybody asked for 10 target aoe's, that's on Anet. But if you want to nerf scourges, be sure to nerf the other meta classes as well.

Definitely

[Kaiser.9873]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"Kaiser.9873" said:Hmmm, Scourge this, Scourge that, but no mention of the fact that without strong support a Scourge is meat for the grinder. No toning down 12K Drop the Hammer? 10K CoR? Scourge been hammered every patch, and yet let's go ahead and keep cutting.

You really want to nuke Scourge? Make them choose whether they want ranged shades, or self-centered shades.

Lmao a rev hammer is trivial compared to a scourges impact in a zerg.sure its effective in a zerg but not even close to the same level as scourge.no zerg lives or dies by rev hammers and rev hammers aren't responsible for the whole playstyles that zergs follow now,as a matter of fact rev hammer is widely used and effective as a way to try and combat the scourge spamming as it allows u to hit from ranged and not get instant dead by the condi aoe puke. I wonder how popular rev hammer would be if scourges didnt oppress zergs into ranged battles? I certainly wouldn't be using hammer if zergs were melee oriented.Also them needing support doesnt change anything.scourge isn't OP in other modes but its mechanic is obsurd OP because the way wvw is and the fact there will always be supports within the zergs.

You have 0 idea about zerging. It is pretty obvious from the "rev hammer is trivial compared to scourge in zergs".

No I zerg all the time and I've zerged on both many many times I'm just not biased. A group of scourges are far more effective than revs and I dont see revs dictating how zergs fight nor cutting off whole sides of structures so defenders cant attack the attackers nor filling a downed entrance into a structure with endless death carpets. I stated revs are definitely very effective but trivial in comparison and I stand by that

This statement is ridiculous. 2, just 2, Drop the Hammers in an area, and the opfor in that area are dead. You can survive 2 shades in an area pretty easily. Scourge excel in area denial, moving the fight around, and doing steady damage, but nothing beats a concentrated rev spike. Top damage? Yeah that's likely going to go to a Scourge simply due to the fact that they are hitting more players. Top spike, which is what kills players, is going to hammer revs.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Kaiser.9873 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Kaiser.9873 said:Hmmm, Scourge this, Scourge that, but no mention of the fact that without strong support a Scourge is meat for the grinder. No toning down 12K Drop the Hammer? 10K CoR? Scourge been hammered every patch, and yet let's go ahead and keep cutting.

You really want to nuke Scourge? Make them choose whether they want ranged shades, or self-centered shades.

Lmao a rev hammer is trivial compared to a scourges impact in a zerg.sure its effective in a zerg but not even close to the same level as scourge.no zerg lives or dies by rev hammers and rev hammers aren't responsible for the whole playstyles that zergs follow now,as a matter of fact rev hammer is widely used and effective as a way to try and combat the scourge spamming as it allows u to hit from ranged and not get instant dead by the condi aoe puke. I wonder how popular rev hammer would be if scourges didnt oppress zergs into ranged battles? I certainly wouldn't be using hammer if zergs were melee oriented.Also them needing support doesnt change anything.scourge isn't OP in other modes but its mechanic is obsurd OP because the way wvw is and the fact there will always be supports within the zergs.

You have 0 idea about zerging. It is pretty obvious from the "rev hammer is trivial compared to scourge in zergs".

No I zerg all the time and I've zerged on both many many times I'm just not biased. A group of scourges are far more effective than revs and I dont see revs dictating how zergs fight nor cutting off whole sides of structures so defenders cant attack the attackers nor filling a downed entrance into a structure with endless death carpets. I stated revs are definitely very effective but trivial in comparison and I stand by that

This statement is ridiculous. 2, just 2, Drop the Hammers in an area, and the opfor in that area are dead. You can survive 2 shades in an area pretty easily. Scourge excel in area denial, moving the fight around, and doing steady damage, but nothing beats a concentrated rev spike. Top damage? Yeah that's likely going to go to a Scourge simply due to the fact that they are hitting more players. Top spike, which is what kills players, is going to hammer revs.

Lol yeah u saying anything's ridiculous than saying a hammer drop means instant downs, I'm on zerker everything built for dps and my hammer doesnt one shot anyone but already half dead enemies lmao i hit people with it and hammer 2 and their usually still kicking with today's sustain and 2 hammers? Who stands in the way of one let alone two hammers lmao u can argue all u want yeah hammers are effective sure and deadly- no where close to groups of scourge stacking aoe's everywhere. Funny how when people discuss things regarding wvw balance hammer rev barely comes up,u kno what always does? Scourge/fb and ofcourse rev outspikes scourge that's not even a question but revs burst doesnt effect wvw anywhere close to how scourge condi aoe stacking does.

[Voltekka.2375]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Kaiser.9873 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Kaiser.9873 said:Hmmm, Scourge this, Scourge that, but no mention of the fact that without strong support a Scourge is meat for the grinder. No toning down 12K Drop the Hammer? 10K CoR? Scourge been hammered every patch, and yet let's go ahead and keep cutting.

You really want to nuke Scourge? Make them choose whether they want ranged shades, or self-centered shades.

Lmao a rev hammer is trivial compared to a scourges impact in a zerg.sure its effective in a zerg but not even close to the same level as scourge.no zerg lives or dies by rev hammers and rev hammers aren't responsible for the whole playstyles that zergs follow now,as a matter of fact rev hammer is widely used and effective as a way to try and combat the scourge spamming as it allows u to hit from ranged and not get instant dead by the condi aoe puke. I wonder how popular rev hammer would be if scourges didnt oppress zergs into ranged battles? I certainly wouldn't be using hammer if zergs were melee oriented.Also them needing support doesnt change anything.scourge isn't OP in other modes but its mechanic is obsurd OP because the way wvw is and the fact there will always be supports within the zergs.

You have 0 idea about zerging. It is pretty obvious from the "rev hammer is trivial compared to scourge in zergs".

No I zerg all the time and I've zerged on both many many times I'm just not biased. A group of scourges are far more effective than revs and I dont see revs dictating how zergs fight nor cutting off whole sides of structures so defenders cant attack the attackers nor filling a downed entrance into a structure with endless death carpets. I stated revs are definitely very effective but trivial in comparison and I stand by that

This statement is ridiculous. 2, just 2, Drop the Hammers in an area, and the opfor in that area are dead. You can survive 2 shades in an area pretty easily. Scourge excel in area denial, moving the fight around, and doing steady damage, but nothing beats a concentrated rev spike. Top damage? Yeah that's likely going to go to a Scourge simply due to the fact that they are hitting more players. Top spike, which is what kills players, is going to hammer revs.

Lol yeah u saying anything's ridiculous than saying a hammer drop means instant downs, I'm on zerker everything built for dps and my hammer doesnt one shot anyone but already half dead enemies lmao i hit people with it and hammer 2 and their usually still kicking with today's sustain and 2 hammers? Who stands in the way of one let alone two hammers lmao u can argue all u want yeah hammers are effective sure and deadly- no where close to groups of scourge stacking aoe's everywhere. Funny how when people discuss things regarding wvw balance hammer rev barely comes up,u kno what always does? Scourge/fb and ofcourse rev outspikes scourge that's not even a question but revs burst doesnt effect wvw anywhere close to how scourge condi aoe stacking does.

"condi aoe stacking"? You honestly think its the condies that make the difference? Maaaaan, this is so wrong, so ignorant, I dont even know where to begin...