If we want balance for WvW we're going to have to force the issue.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Kaiser.9873 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Kaiser.9873 said:Hmmm, Scourge this, Scourge that, but no mention of the fact that without strong support a Scourge is meat for the grinder. No toning down 12K Drop the Hammer? 10K CoR? Scourge been hammered every patch, and yet let's go ahead and keep cutting.

You really want to nuke Scourge? Make them choose whether they want ranged shades, or self-centered shades.

Lmao a rev hammer is trivial compared to a scourges impact in a zerg.sure its effective in a zerg but not even close to the same level as scourge.no zerg lives or dies by rev hammers and rev hammers aren't responsible for the whole playstyles that zergs follow now,as a matter of fact rev hammer is widely used and effective as a way to try and combat the scourge spamming as it allows u to hit from ranged and not get instant dead by the condi aoe puke. I wonder how popular rev hammer would be if scourges didnt oppress zergs into ranged battles? I certainly wouldn't be using hammer if zergs were melee oriented.Also them needing support doesnt change anything.scourge isn't OP in other modes but its mechanic is obsurd OP because the way wvw is and the fact there will always be supports within the zergs.

You have 0 idea about zerging. It is pretty obvious from the "rev hammer is trivial compared to scourge in zergs".

No I zerg all the time and I've zerged on both many many times I'm just not biased. A group of scourges are far more effective than revs and I dont see revs dictating how zergs fight nor cutting off whole sides of structures so defenders cant attack the attackers nor filling a downed entrance into a structure with endless death carpets. I stated revs are definitely very effective but trivial in comparison and I stand by that

This statement is ridiculous. 2, just 2, Drop the Hammers in an area, and the opfor in that area are dead. You can survive 2 shades in an area pretty easily. Scourge excel in area denial, moving the fight around, and doing steady damage, but nothing beats a concentrated rev spike. Top damage? Yeah that's likely going to go to a Scourge simply due to the fact that they are hitting more players. Top spike, which is what kills players, is going to hammer revs.

Lol yeah u saying anything's ridiculous than saying a hammer drop means instant downs, I'm on zerker everything built for dps and my hammer doesnt one shot anyone but already half dead enemies lmao i hit people with it and hammer 2 and their usually still kicking with today's sustain and 2 hammers? Who stands in the way of one let alone two hammers lmao u can argue all u want yeah hammers are effective sure and deadly- no where close to groups of scourge stacking aoe's everywhere. Funny how when people discuss things regarding wvw balance hammer rev barely comes up,u kno what always does? Scourge/fb and ofcourse rev outspikes scourge that's not even a question but revs burst doesnt effect wvw anywhere close to how scourge condi aoe stacking does.

"condi aoe stacking"? You honestly think its the condies that make the difference? Maaaaan, this is so wrong, so ignorant, I dont even know where to begin...

Lmao not ignorant at all lmao this mode will never change.every zerg is literally 90% scourge spam circles everywhere,I've seen half of whole zergs just deleted and all spewing at the respawn,I'm talking literally 15 or so players deleted from groups of scourges just walking forward spamming. Real skilled gameplay lmao u can keep ur garbage mode itl never change and people actually thinking the way scourge works in wvw being ok lmao that's ignorant and at best a joke. People complaining about gankers killing few here and there and comparing revs to scourge/fb spam who single handedly are the reason that wvw zergs battle the way they do(pirsteship bs) wow I'm ignorant lol

[coro.3176]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Kaiser.9873 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Kaiser.9873 said:Hmmm, Scourge this, Scourge that, but no mention of the fact that without strong support a Scourge is meat for the grinder. No toning down 12K Drop the Hammer? 10K CoR? Scourge been hammered every patch, and yet let's go ahead and keep cutting.

You really want to nuke Scourge? Make them choose whether they want ranged shades, or self-centered shades.

Lmao a rev hammer is trivial compared to a scourges impact in a zerg.sure its effective in a zerg but not even close to the same level as scourge.no zerg lives or dies by rev hammers and rev hammers aren't responsible for the whole playstyles that zergs follow now,as a matter of fact rev hammer is widely used and effective as a way to try and combat the scourge spamming as it allows u to hit from ranged and not get instant dead by the condi aoe puke. I wonder how popular rev hammer would be if scourges didnt oppress zergs into ranged battles? I certainly wouldn't be using hammer if zergs were melee oriented.Also them needing support doesnt change anything.scourge isn't OP in other modes but its mechanic is obsurd OP because the way wvw is and the fact there will always be supports within the zergs.

You have 0 idea about zerging. It is pretty obvious from the "rev hammer is trivial compared to scourge in zergs".

No I zerg all the time and I've zerged on both many many times I'm just not biased. A group of scourges are far more effective than revs and I dont see revs dictating how zergs fight nor cutting off whole sides of structures so defenders cant attack the attackers nor filling a downed entrance into a structure with endless death carpets. I stated revs are definitely very effective but trivial in comparison and I stand by that

This statement is ridiculous. 2, just 2, Drop the Hammers in an area, and the opfor in that area are dead. You can survive 2 shades in an area pretty easily. Scourge excel in area denial, moving the fight around, and doing steady damage, but nothing beats a concentrated rev spike. Top damage? Yeah that's likely going to go to a Scourge simply due to the fact that they are hitting more players. Top spike, which is what kills players, is going to hammer revs.

Lol yeah u saying anything's ridiculous than saying a hammer drop means instant downs, I'm on zerker everything built for dps and my hammer doesnt one shot anyone but already half dead enemies lmao i hit people with it and hammer 2 and their usually still kicking with today's sustain and 2 hammers? Who stands in the way of one let alone two hammers lmao u can argue all u want yeah hammers are effective sure and deadly- no where close to groups of scourge stacking aoe's everywhere. Funny how when people discuss things regarding wvw balance hammer rev barely comes up,u kno what always does? Scourge/fb and ofcourse rev outspikes scourge that's not even a question but revs burst doesnt effect wvw anywhere close to how scourge condi aoe stacking does.

"condi aoe stacking"? You honestly think its the condies that make the difference? Maaaaan, this is so wrong, so ignorant, I dont even know where to begin...

Lmao not ignorant at all lmao this mode will never change.every zerg is literally 90% scourge spam circles everywhere,I've seen half of whole zergs just deleted and all spewing at the respawn,I'm talking literally 15 or so players deleted from groups of scourges just walking forward spamming. Real skilled gameplay lmao u can keep ur garbage mode itl never change and people actually thinking the way scourge works in wvw being ok lmao that's ignorant and at best a joke. People complaining about gankers killing few here and there and comparing revs to scourge/fb spam who single handedly are the reason that wvw zergs battle the way they do(pirsteship bs) wow I'm ignorant lol

It is scourge.It's not condi.

They're playing power scourge. Condi wouldn't work as there is too much cleanse available. The condi you see is just leftover from the aoe boon corrupt and incidental with the other scourge aoe attacks. Check your combat log and you'll see it's the power portion of the skills doing the majority of the damage along with CoR and Hammer from backline rev.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@coro.3176 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Kaiser.9873 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Kaiser.9873 said:Hmmm, Scourge this, Scourge that, but no mention of the fact that without strong support a Scourge is meat for the grinder. No toning down 12K Drop the Hammer? 10K CoR? Scourge been hammered every patch, and yet let's go ahead and keep cutting.

You really want to nuke Scourge? Make them choose whether they want ranged shades, or self-centered shades.

Lmao a rev hammer is trivial compared to a scourges impact in a zerg.sure its effective in a zerg but not even close to the same level as scourge.no zerg lives or dies by rev hammers and rev hammers aren't responsible for the whole playstyles that zergs follow now,as a matter of fact rev hammer is widely used and effective as a way to try and combat the scourge spamming as it allows u to hit from ranged and not get instant dead by the condi aoe puke. I wonder how popular rev hammer would be if scourges didnt oppress zergs into ranged battles? I certainly wouldn't be using hammer if zergs were melee oriented.Also them needing support doesnt change anything.scourge isn't OP in other modes but its mechanic is obsurd OP because the way wvw is and the fact there will always be supports within the zergs.

You have 0 idea about zerging. It is pretty obvious from the "rev hammer is trivial compared to scourge in zergs".

No I zerg all the time and I've zerged on both many many times I'm just not biased. A group of scourges are far more effective than revs and I dont see revs dictating how zergs fight nor cutting off whole sides of structures so defenders cant attack the attackers nor filling a downed entrance into a structure with endless death carpets. I stated revs are definitely very effective but trivial in comparison and I stand by that

This statement is ridiculous. 2, just 2, Drop the Hammers in an area, and the opfor in that area are dead. You can survive 2 shades in an area pretty easily. Scourge excel in area denial, moving the fight around, and doing steady damage, but nothing beats a concentrated rev spike. Top damage? Yeah that's likely going to go to a Scourge simply due to the fact that they are hitting more players. Top spike, which is what kills players, is going to hammer revs.

Lol yeah u saying anything's ridiculous than saying a hammer drop means instant downs, I'm on zerker everything built for dps and my hammer doesnt one shot anyone but already half dead enemies lmao i hit people with it and hammer 2 and their usually still kicking with today's sustain and 2 hammers? Who stands in the way of one let alone two hammers lmao u can argue all u want yeah hammers are effective sure and deadly- no where close to groups of scourge stacking aoe's everywhere. Funny how when people discuss things regarding wvw balance hammer rev barely comes up,u kno what always does? Scourge/fb and ofcourse rev outspikes scourge that's not even a question but revs burst doesnt effect wvw anywhere close to how scourge condi aoe stacking does.

"condi aoe stacking"? You honestly think its the condies that make the difference? Maaaaan, this is so wrong, so ignorant, I dont even know where to begin...

Lmao not ignorant at all lmao this mode will never change.every zerg is literally 90% scourge spam circles everywhere,I've seen half of whole zergs just deleted and all spewing at the respawn,I'm talking literally 15 or so players deleted from groups of scourges just walking forward spamming. Real skilled gameplay lmao u can keep ur garbage mode itl never change and people actually thinking the way scourge works in wvw being ok lmao that's ignorant and at best a joke. People complaining about gankers killing few here and there and comparing revs to scourge/fb spam who single handedly are the reason that wvw zergs battle the way they do(pirsteship bs) wow I'm ignorant lol

It is scourge.It's not condi.

They're playing

power scourge

. Condi wouldn't work as there is too much cleanse available. The condi you see is just leftover from the aoe boon corrupt and incidental with the other scourge aoe attacks. Check your combat log and you'll see it's the power portion of the skills doing the majority of the damage along with CoR and Hammer from backline rev.

I know that the scourges are built for power these days that's common knowledge but their condi skills at base and was i just typed condi in there while typing fast lol my apologies

[displayname.8315]

1v1s are still possible. Fighting outnumbered is still possible.

Severe number imbalances can be a problem but mostly it's just bad PvP skills and not being able to count. Can't force people to become competent though sadly.

[Kaiser.9873]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Kaiser.9873 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Kaiser.9873 said:Hmmm, Scourge this, Scourge that, but no mention of the fact that without strong support a Scourge is meat for the grinder. No toning down 12K Drop the Hammer? 10K CoR? Scourge been hammered every patch, and yet let's go ahead and keep cutting.

You really want to nuke Scourge? Make them choose whether they want ranged shades, or self-centered shades.

Lmao a rev hammer is trivial compared to a scourges impact in a zerg.sure its effective in a zerg but not even close to the same level as scourge.no zerg lives or dies by rev hammers and rev hammers aren't responsible for the whole playstyles that zergs follow now,as a matter of fact rev hammer is widely used and effective as a way to try and combat the scourge spamming as it allows u to hit from ranged and not get instant dead by the condi aoe puke. I wonder how popular rev hammer would be if scourges didnt oppress zergs into ranged battles? I certainly wouldn't be using hammer if zergs were melee oriented.Also them needing support doesnt change anything.scourge isn't OP in other modes but its mechanic is obsurd OP because the way wvw is and the fact there will always be supports within the zergs.

You have 0 idea about zerging. It is pretty obvious from the "rev hammer is trivial compared to scourge in zergs".

No I zerg all the time and I've zerged on both many many times I'm just not biased. A group of scourges are far more effective than revs and I dont see revs dictating how zergs fight nor cutting off whole sides of structures so defenders cant attack the attackers nor filling a downed entrance into a structure with endless death carpets. I stated revs are definitely very effective but trivial in comparison and I stand by that

This statement is ridiculous. 2, just 2, Drop the Hammers in an area, and the opfor in that area are dead. You can survive 2 shades in an area pretty easily. Scourge excel in area denial, moving the fight around, and doing steady damage, but nothing beats a concentrated rev spike. Top damage? Yeah that's likely going to go to a Scourge simply due to the fact that they are hitting more players. Top spike, which is what kills players, is going to hammer revs.

Lol yeah u saying anything's ridiculous than saying a hammer drop means instant downs, I'm on zerker everything built for dps and my hammer doesnt one shot anyone but already half dead enemies lmao i hit people with it and hammer 2 and their usually still kicking with today's sustain and 2 hammers? Who stands in the way of one let alone two hammers lmao u can argue all u want yeah hammers are effective sure and deadly- no where close to groups of scourge stacking aoe's everywhere. Funny how when people discuss things regarding wvw balance hammer rev barely comes up,u kno what always does? Scourge/fb and ofcourse rev outspikes scourge that's not even a question but revs burst doesnt effect wvw anywhere close to how scourge condi aoe stacking does.

Reading comprehension....... I said 2 Drop the Hammer, 2X12K = 24K. Scourge shades might tick for 3K. Decent, but not too spiky. Good enough to do damage sure, but that's not ending a fight. You keep talking about massive numbers of Scourges painting the fields red. Okay, but if you stacked that many eles all dropping meteor shower, or that many revs popping CoR, then the spike grows by an order of magnitude.

People complain about Scourge, because ANet made shades these ENORMOUS beacons. Notice when you engage you barely see meteor circles, or Phase Smash/Drop the Hammer circles. That's not because they aren't there. It's because of flashy flashy Scourge shades.

Go ahead and spike my zerg with AoE condi. We'll cleanse it, and turn them into boons. I honestly think you know very little of how the meta works at this point.

[aspirine.5839]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Kaiser.9873 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Kaiser.9873 said:Hmmm, Scourge this, Scourge that, but no mention of the fact that without strong support a Scourge is meat for the grinder. No toning down 12K Drop the Hammer? 10K CoR? Scourge been hammered every patch, and yet let's go ahead and keep cutting.

You really want to nuke Scourge? Make them choose whether they want ranged shades, or self-centered shades.

Lmao a rev hammer is trivial compared to a scourges impact in a zerg.sure its effective in a zerg but not even close to the same level as scourge.no zerg lives or dies by rev hammers and rev hammers aren't responsible for the whole playstyles that zergs follow now,as a matter of fact rev hammer is widely used and effective as a way to try and combat the scourge spamming as it allows u to hit from ranged and not get instant dead by the condi aoe puke. I wonder how popular rev hammer would be if scourges didnt oppress zergs into ranged battles? I certainly wouldn't be using hammer if zergs were melee oriented.Also them needing support doesnt change anything.scourge isn't OP in other modes but its mechanic is obsurd OP because the way wvw is and the fact there will always be supports within the zergs.

You have 0 idea about zerging. It is pretty obvious from the "rev hammer is trivial compared to scourge in zergs".

No I zerg all the time and I've zerged on both many many times I'm just not biased. A group of scourges are far more effective than revs and I dont see revs dictating how zergs fight nor cutting off whole sides of structures so defenders cant attack the attackers nor filling a downed entrance into a structure with endless death carpets. I stated revs are definitely very effective but trivial in comparison and I stand by that

This statement is ridiculous. 2, just 2, Drop the Hammers in an area, and the opfor in that area are dead. You can survive 2 shades in an area pretty easily. Scourge excel in area denial, moving the fight around, and doing steady damage, but nothing beats a concentrated rev spike. Top damage? Yeah that's likely going to go to a Scourge simply due to the fact that they are hitting more players. Top spike, which is what kills players, is going to hammer revs.

Lol yeah u saying anything's ridiculous than saying a hammer drop means instant downs, I'm on zerker everything built for dps and my hammer doesnt one shot anyone but already half dead enemies lmao i hit people with it and hammer 2 and their usually still kicking with today's sustain and 2 hammers? Who stands in the way of one let alone two hammers lmao u can argue all u want yeah hammers are effective sure and deadly- no where close to groups of scourge stacking aoe's everywhere. Funny how when people discuss things regarding wvw balance hammer rev barely comes up,u kno what always does? Scourge/fb and ofcourse rev outspikes scourge that's not even a question but revs burst doesnt effect wvw anywhere close to how scourge condi aoe stacking does.

"condi aoe stacking"? You honestly think its the condies that make the difference? Maaaaan, this is so wrong, so ignorant, I dont even know where to begin...

Lmao not ignorant at all lmao this mode will never change.every zerg is literally 90% scourge spam circles everywhere,I've seen half of whole zergs just deleted and all spewing at the respawn,I'm talking literally 15 or so players deleted from groups of scourges just walking forward spamming. Real skilled gameplay lmao u can keep ur garbage mode itl never change and people actually thinking the way scourge works in wvw being ok lmao that's ignorant and at best a joke. People complaining about gankers killing few here and there and comparing revs to scourge/fb spam who single handedly are the reason that wvw zergs battle the way they do(pirsteship bs) wow I'm ignorant lol

Lots of scourge spam circles, but I doubt many are condi based. Most necro's on my server are power based. And seeing combat log the other servers seem to run power too.