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Scepter nerfs


Magolith.9412

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@"viquing.8254" said:Increase the channel duration were a better fix IMO but whatever.And don't start saying scepter 3 is OP when many other class dps spec with same gear aren't really far away from this output.

Scepter 3 is incredibly clunky to use. It's difficult to use it effectively, but not in a "high skill cap" way, simply a "I have to fight game mechanics to make this work" way.

However.

The raw strength of the skill is off the charts. It's incredibly out of line when compared to any other ability in the game, no exceptions. Nothing else has such an obscene damage capability with minimal drawbacks. In the proper setup, you can easily crack 20k damage from a single cast of this skill into a semi-defensive build, it's absurd.

What scepter 3 needs is mechanical changes to make it actually usable, not damage buffs that make it overpowered with zero counterplay the occasional time you manage to land it.

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@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@"viquing.8254" said:Increase the channel duration were a better fix IMO but whatever.And don't start saying scepter 3 is OP when many other class dps spec with same gear aren't really far away from this output.

Scepter 3 is incredibly clunky to use. It's difficult to use it effectively, but not in a "high skill cap" way, simply a "I have to fight game mechanics to make this work" way.

However.

The raw strength of the skill is off the charts. It's incredibly out of line when compared to any other ability in the game, no exceptions. Nothing else has such an obscene damage capability with minimal drawbacks. In the proper setup, you can easily crack 20k damage from a single cast of this skill into a semi-defensive build, it's absurd.

What scepter 3 needs is mechanical changes to make it actually usable, not damage buffs that make it overpowered with zero counterplay the occasional time you manage to land it.

20k in WvW with food on a target with 25 vuln with a mesmer with 25 power, 75 % crit chance, 215% crit damage ?Sorry but when you see other dps/burst class who can output 10k in 2 instant cast I maintain that even if yes scepter 3 has the best coef + base damage in the game, in practise, you are not 10 km ahead them in term of global output considering instant damage are way more harder to mitigate than a scepter burst.Did a scepter burst mesmer put on you way more pressure than a dps/burst soulbeast, rev, war, ele, thief, gard, reaper ? For me the pressure is relatively the same for all of theses, taking the gameplay difference apart.It's strong and the concept of buffing damage instead of reworking scepter skills isn't the best, but it's certainly not OP in the sense of putting mesmer far ahead other.

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So, I solo/duo roam on a hybrid mirage (about 80% power/20% condi) for about a year. Yes, scepter 3 is/was strong. It's the only thing scepter really has/had going for it. I do ~10-12k against glassier builds if the full channel lands. Even WITH the damage it has, it's incredibly difficult to bring down or even survive certain other classes/builds that aren't getting nerfed, and I think I'm near the skill ceiling with the build. It's gotta really suck as a newer player. I guess that's what pushes many toward condi tank.

ANYWAY,With & without Malicious Sorcery, the AA chain sucks. (Oh, and the ambush sucks too.)Without MS, Illusionary Counter is clunky. With, it's acceptable.. still slightly clunky.Without MS, #3 is clunky. With, it's good.

@Pyroatheist.9031 you say it's incredible clunky to use. It's the least clunky thing on scepter.

This nerf, imo, is going to kill hybrid/duelist style for me. Will be nearly impossible to take down invinci-scrapper. Will never bring down a really good sw/d duelist weaver. Will take FOREVER to bring down a good spellbreaker. Will be near impossible to win vs a really good DH. Killing a really good thief was already really difficult. Memebeast will still 100-0 in 1s from 1500 if I'm unlucky enough to be engaged with somebody and don't have full CDs.

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I assume they are reducing the direct damage of it by 50%?

Didn't they make the cast time longer and increased its damage not sure at which patch?they are going to reduce the cast time again now?

Just kidding forget about any cast time reduction =p

AND be prepared for the patch that is coming after the coming patch! they will probably nerf IH so we don't have any grandmaster trait in mirage to pick, by nerf i mean kill, they seem good at killing traits.

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@Magolith.9412 said:@Pyroatheist.9031 you say it's incredible clunky to use. It's the least clunky thing on scepter.

Well you're not entirely wrong at that, though imo the block is fine. Regardless though, clunky mechanics should not be balanced with overpowered effects just like a long cooldown does not balance an overpowered effect. A skill that is overpowered once in a while is still overpowered and should be fixed.

This game has a fairly large variety of solid targeting/damage output mechanics, any of which could be used to make this skill actually functional. It needs a rework like that in conjunction with a rebalancing of the damage/condition pressure that it applies.

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@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@Magolith.9412 said:@Pyroatheist.9031 you say it's incredible clunky to use. It's the
least
clunky thing on scepter.

Well you're not entirely wrong ahttps://en-forum.guildwars2.com/profile/Magolith.9412t that, though imo the block is fine. Regardless though, clunky mechanics should not be balanced with overpowered effects just like a long cooldown does not balance an overpowered effect. A skill that is overpowered once in a while is still overpowered and should be fixed.

I agree. But they are nerfing the shit out of #3 without touching the other skills. And that (imo) will make it a sub-par weapon.

Edit: (I left out the part that makes me the most bitter..) I've already struggled with having the desire to play since Warclaw was released, but they're essentially killing the only build I really have fun with and leaving other class's broken shit in place for even more months.

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@viquing.8254 said:

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:This game has a fairly large variety of solid targeting/damage output mechanics, any of which could be used to make this skill actually functional. It needs a rework like that in conjunction with a rebalancing of the damage/condition pressure that it applies.What do you think for example?

Well, it depends on what they want the identify of the skill to be.

If they're going for high impact, more similar to how it is now (pre-nerf), they could use a similar mechanic to rev hammer 5: gtaoe channel delayed hit.

If they want something that maintains the current pulse-based output but has usable aoe, they could make it a single gtaoe pulsing skill similar to a well.

If they're really committed to the beam attack method, they can remove the windup and increase the execution speed to <1s, to make it feel more similar to GS1 in terms of use.

If they're committed to the long channel method, then they could make it a large cone aoe, similar to guardian torch 5.

Lots of options for what they could do, and specifically what I mentioned are not the only ones.

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@"viquing.8254" said:I see thanks for explanations.But I maintain that actually scepter 3 is not that far from https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ghastly_Claws to name a spell which is very close to it. And there are other skills on other class who did nice damage too.With the 50% nerf it will be far below.

Ghastly claws is single target and has no condition damage component.

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@"Pyroatheist.9031" said:Ghastly claws is single target and has no condition damage component.It gives life force and can have a boost damage from 1 to 25%. (wiki say more.)You really consider scepter 3 as an afficient multi target skill ? (Usually the multi target is only efficient when someone is trying to rez a downed.)Moreover Ghastly claws has only animation on necro for visual whereas you know from where came the pink laser.

I'm all for a rework or something based on your suggestion but I'm just pointing out that today scepter 3 ins't OP and post update it will be a "do two times clic" than team fight class to have the same damage output if they also nerf the coef by 50%...

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the nerf to scepter is justified. that damage on 3 was just too much from a 12 sec skill/9 traited. i mean i cant even hit for more than 7k on holo elite laser on 75 sec cd but its okay to have scepter hitting for the same or more on 5 times shorter cd? i do know laser is cc/unblockable. im only talking about the damage here.altho i also can see chrono getting dropped in pvp with this nerf. only thing its good for after this is being scrapper clone.but as someone also said, dont overbuff the shit outta it if its clunky to use. rework the skill to something usefull instead. like add more confusion as someone suggested.and make it less clunky.. the overbuffing of dmg was the wrong way to make it viable to begin with

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@toxic.3648 said:the nerf to scepter is justified. that damage on 3 was just too much from a 12 sec skill/9 traited. i mean i cant even hit for more than 7k on holo elite laser on 75 sec cd but its okay to have scepter hitting for the same or more on 5 times shorter cd? i do know laser is cc/unblockable. im only talking about the damage here.How it was too much ? You can 3k+ auto with your holo , your ulti who unblocable CC and do 5k + is more usefull to prepare a burst than to damage. When scepter auto hit for more than 1k on zerk stuff I'm happy.No even talking that scepter is single target while holo is near 100% aoe ? (btw holo is far than 3 seasons ago.) New engi burst seems grenade scrapper or something like that.altho i also can see chrono getting dropped in pvp with this nerf. only thing its good for after this is being scrapper clone.The chrono problem was not at all the damage, comparatively to other demolisher class output.but as someone also said, dont overbuff the kitten outta it if its clunky to use. rework the skill to something usefull instead. like add more confusion as someone suggested.and make it less clunky.. the overbuffing of dmg was the wrong way to make it viable to begin withWe are ok about this.

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So we end up with a 12 sec CD, 2,25 sec channelling skill who does 3-4k average with zerker gear on a burst build.While Ghastly claws do 2 times more in 1,75 sec on 8 sec CD.And I didn't even mention other burst class with same gear instant output like rev who can instant 6-8k aoe with way more skills.But it's ok we are mesmer and shouldn't output something with our weapon because it's "normal" we have strong illusions to confuse the poor casual who face us ...Fucking teamfight class whiners ...

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@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@viquing.8254 said:20k in WvW with food on a target with 25 vuln with a mesmer with 25 power, 75 % crit chance, 215% crit damage ?its relatively easy to get 20k+ in pvp with no might or vuln. maybe with 12 stacks from mantra I cant remember.

anyway I think a cast time decrease would do wonders for scepter # 3.

No it wasnt' easy, average full channel pre-pacth did around 8k which seem imo really fair considered the gear and animation. And I play burst spec since 3 seasons now. I never reach 20k with scepter 3 in ranked, best I hit in was around12k and it was far to the average.We are after 50% nerf now and even with traits damage boost it hit like a wet noodle while aoe class did more instantly. Why a single target burst mesmer should does less damage than multi target aoe class with his weapon ???

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