Spellbreaker Feedback

[Daharahj.1325]

Did it get nuked? how come? It had a lot of useful information and justified complaints.

Some proposed solutions gathered from said thread:

• Reduce Signet of Rage's adrenaline generation
• Reduce Burst Mastery's Adrenaline regen.
• Increase Featherfoot's Grace cooldown.
• Remove Stability from Full Counter or the Resistance component from Revenge Counter.
• Tone down Healing Signet healing.
• Reduce the power coefficient of Full Counter and/or remove the unblockable component.
• Increase Full Counter's cooldown.

Ideally you'd look into toning down Spellbreaker without affecting Berserker or core Warrior too much. It goes without saying that we're not asking all these changes to be done simultaneously, only 2-3 should suffice.

[Ario.8964]

The problem with the list you put forward: Only a bit more than half of those are directed at spellbreaker while the rest hits the core class too. Most of these aren't necessary as it's just people who need to adapt to a new mechanic. There's so much complaining about the counter when the only justified nerf to it would be to remove the unblockable and maybe a 10% dmg nerf. The stability and resistance is needed to allow the skill to actually hit people and the windup is long enough to dodge if you're paying attention to what the war is doing. Removing the unblockable is something I'd advocate so people who rely more on blocks (I.E. guard) have more of a chance to be able to consistently counter the skill. If you do more than that you make the mechanic useless and it'll be back to core war for anyone who wants to be able to play the class. Just remember that spellbreaker sacrifices access to 3 stacks of adrenal health (it's possible but honestly difficult to get to and maintain unless the enemy never dodges) in order to get those extra defenses like featherfoot and full counter so those need to be strong enough to justify the drop in sustain.

[Oglaf.1074]

@Daharahj.1325 said:Did it get nuked? how come? It had a lot of useful information and justified complaints.

Some proposed solutions gathered from said thread:

• Reduce Signet of Rage's adrenaline generation
• Reduce Burst Mastery's Adrenaline regen.
• Increase Featherfoot's Grace cooldown.
• Remove Stability from Full Counter or the Resistance component from Revenge Counter.
• Tone down Healing Signet healing.
• Reduce the power coefficient of Full Counter and/or remove the unblockable component.
• Increase Full Counter's cooldown.

Ideally you'd look into toning down Spellbreaker without affecting Berserker or core Warrior too much. It goes without saying that we're not asking all these changes to be done simultaneously, only 2-3 should suffice.

Bahahaha.

Yeah instead of that how about we just... delete Warriors? Because that's pretty much what you're suggesting.

[Daharahj.1325]

@Ario.8964 said:The stability and resistance is needed to allow the skill to actually hit people and the windup is long enough to dodge if you're paying attention to what the war is doing.

Full counter has shorter CD than a dodge roll, not to mention there are other important things to be dodged as well.

[Ario.8964]

@Daharahj.1325 said:

@Ario.8964 said:The stability and resistance is needed to allow the skill to actually hit people and the windup is long enough to dodge if you're paying attention to what the war is doing.

Full counter has shorter CD than a dodge roll, not to mention there are other important things to be dodged as well.

Which was the reason for removing the unblockable aspect, it allows more ways to counter defensively but it still requires a reaction from people. And it doesn't matter if it has a shorter cd than a dodge because the main idea is to not hit it at all. The dodge being a counter is if you mess up and hit it you can blow a dodge to avoid the bomb coming after it but ideally you'll be predicting when a full counter will be used and won't hit it and that's where the skill aspect comes into this game (more of which we need).And side note: You also shouldn't always be able to dodge or mitigate everything, that's how immortal builds come around so if you keep hitting a full counter you should be running out of cd's and other mitigation causing you to get hit by it. I know it's not a fun thing to hear but it's a brutal truth about the defenses of this game, they run out eventually.

[Daharahj.1325]

@Ario.8964 said:

@Daharahj.1325 said:

@Ario.8964 said:The stability and resistance is needed to allow the skill to actually hit people and the windup is long enough to dodge if you're paying attention to what the war is doing.

Full counter has shorter CD than a dodge roll, not to mention there are other important things to be dodged as well.

Which was the reason for removing the unblockable aspect, it allows more ways to counter defensively but it still requires a reaction from people. And it doesn't matter if it has a shorter cd than a dodge because the main idea is to not hit it at all. The dodge being a counter is if you mess up and hit it you can blow a dodge to avoid the bomb coming after it but ideally you'll be predicting when a full counter will be used and won't hit it and that's where the skill aspect comes into this game (more of which we need).And side note: You also shouldn't always be able to dodge or mitigate everything, that's how immortal builds come around so if you keep hitting a full counter you should be running out of cd's and other mitigation causing you to get hit by it. I know it's not a fun thing to hear but it's a brutal truth about the defenses of this game, they run out eventually.

The problem with your suggestion is that it only works in a 1v1 scenario (and barely), in conquest mode there are often 3 or more people involved in a fight and Full Counter is guaranteed to trigger and bomb everyone within the node for 4k~ damage, interrupt them and copy god only knows how many conditions.

[KryTiKaL.3125]

@Daharahj.1325 said:Did it get nuked? how come? It had a lot of useful information and justified complaints.

Some proposed solutions gathered from said thread:

• Reduce Signet of Rage's adrenaline generation
• Reduce Burst Mastery's Adrenaline regen.
• Increase Featherfoot's Grace cooldown.
• Remove Stability from Full Counter or the Resistance component from Revenge Counter.
• Tone down Healing Signet healing.
• Reduce the power coefficient of Full Counter and/or remove the unblockable component.
• Increase Full Counter's cooldown.

Ideally you'd look into toning down Spellbreaker without affecting Berserker or core Warrior too much. It goes without saying that we're not asking all these changes to be done simultaneously, only 2-3 should suffice.

• Reduce Signet of Rage's adrenaline generation This apparently wasn't an issue with Berserker or Core Warrior. Strange.
• Reduce Burst Mastery's Adrenaline regen. Also has not previously been an issue with Berserker or Core Warrior
• Increase Featherfoot's Grace cooldown. You mean as opposed to having Berserker Stance already? Warrior did not have good Condi Clear, resistance uptime is their only saving grace
• Remove Stability from Full Counter or the Resistance component from Revenge Counter. That would make the skill completely counter to its intent
• Tone down Healing Signet healing. This had already been nerfed twice, it does not need to get hit again.
• Reduce the power coefficient of Full Counter and/or remove the unblockable component. Would also play counter to the skills intent
• Increase Full Counter's cooldown. A slight increase I can see as reasonable, but people want it to be 15 seconds which is just...no, that would kill Warrior sustain harder than they killed it with the Adrenal Health nerfs with the pre-PoF patch

A lot of these issues people bring up with Spellbreaker have mostly stemmed from not adjusting to it yet. Ability spam has been a constant in PvP and as such it means people are going to get hard nuked by this skill because they aren't paying enough attention. I'm Gold ranked with Spellbreaker and I've fought Plat ranked players that notice the Full Counter and just don't hit me, thus removing my ability to damage them, build an Adrenal Health stack, or interrupt them. Also seen people just outright dodge the damage from it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of Anet having had the PvP season run with PoF releasing right in the middle of it. Its pretty chaotic and hurts the PvP, especially ranked, because you get everyone and their mother either building some cheese burn build with the pre-nerf Firebrand burn stacks, Scourges with their (seemingly) still bugged Shades, and a number of other things along with people also testing out potentially nonsensical doo-doo builds that have no place in ranked play and as such makes them pretty much dead weight in a team fight.

[devastoscz.9851]

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:

@Daharahj.1325 said:Did it get nuked? how come? It had a lot of useful information and justified complaints.

Some proposed solutions gathered from said thread:

• Reduce Signet of Rage's adrenaline generation
• Reduce Burst Mastery's Adrenaline regen.
• Increase Featherfoot's Grace cooldown.
• Remove Stability from Full Counter or the Resistance component from Revenge Counter.
• Tone down Healing Signet healing.
• Reduce the power coefficient of Full Counter and/or remove the unblockable component.
• Increase Full Counter's cooldown.

Ideally you'd look into toning down Spellbreaker without affecting Berserker or core Warrior too much. It goes without saying that we're not asking all these changes to be done simultaneously, only 2-3 should suffice.

• Reduce Signet of Rage's adrenaline generation
  This apparently wasn't an issue with Berserker or Core Warrior. Strange.
• Reduce Burst Mastery's Adrenaline regen.
  Also has not previously been an issue with Berserker or Core Warrior
• Increase Featherfoot's Grace cooldown.
  You mean as opposed to having Berserker Stance already? Warrior did not have good Condi Clear, resistance uptime is their only saving grace
• Remove Stability from Full Counter or the Resistance component from Revenge Counter.
  That would make the skill completely counter to its intent
• Tone down Healing Signet healing.
  This had already been nerfed twice, it does not need to get hit again.
• Reduce the power coefficient of Full Counter and/or remove the unblockable component.
  Would also play counter to the skills intent
• Increase Full Counter's cooldown.
  A slight increase I can see as reasonable, but people want it to be 15 seconds which is just...no, that would kill Warrior sustain harder than they killed it with the Adrenal Health nerfs with the pre-PoF patch

A lot of these issues people bring up with Spellbreaker have mostly stemmed from not adjusting to it yet. Ability spam has been a constant in PvP and as such it means people are going to get hard nuked by this skill because they aren't paying enough attention. I'm Gold ranked with Spellbreaker and I've fought Plat ranked players that notice the Full Counter and just don't hit me, thus removing my ability to damage them, build an Adrenal Health stack, or interrupt them. Also seen people just outright dodge the damage from it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of Anet having had the PvP season run with PoF releasing right in the middle of it. Its pretty chaotic and hurts the PvP, especially ranked, because you get everyone and their mother either building some cheese burn build with the pre-nerf Firebrand burn stacks, Scourges with their (seemingly) still bugged Shades, and a number of other things along with people also testing out potentially nonsensical doo-doo builds that have no place in ranked play and as such makes them pretty much dead weight in a team fight.

100% this. I pay very close attention when I see a spellbreaker on the other team and in team fights tend to target them last, particuarly because attack spamming is counterprodcutive against them and they can build up adrenaline fast in team fights. If you dont fall for the full counter trap, Spellbreaker loses a LOT of its weapons.

[OriOri.8724]

Full counter could use shaving, but nothing like what OP proposed.

Remove AoE daze, make it only daze the person that procced it, or no one if the SB intentionally procs it via wandering into an AoE.Reduce Revenge Counter to only copying 2-3 conditions instead of 5. Seriously, a skill as defensive as full counter shouldn't also be able to be a full on condi bomb as well if it hits, on top of dealing damage, dazing, and also removing boons.Change Slow Counter to apply either cripple or slow, but not both.

[kKagari.6804]

The only change it should have is that it only dazes the enemy that triggered the full counter.

[nicknamenick.2437]

Why nerf all core warrior skills and traits if you want to tone down spellbreaker?

adrenaline nerf on SoR? Haha this i have never ever seen on forum =)

[Master Ketsu.4569]

As I pointed out in my other thread you can completely avoid full counter by hitting it while queuing an evade. FC has a slight lag and startup time so you can actually dodge in between activating it and it will not hit you.

TL;DR it's a good skill but it's not nearly as unbeatable as people are making it out as.

[SkyFurY.6057]

Yea... you dont know how to counter sb so pretty much nerf it until no1 use it and you can have fun spamming skills brainless with your main class .

[Nico.2406]

Can someone delete this thread? I mean this is no feedback this is blubbering^^Just learn to adapt and learn how to play against Spellbreaker.Most changes you mentioned affect core warrior, and as we know core warrior was and is not strong enough for the meta.

[edoera.1985]

how to unlock spell breaker? It said i have112 points unspent for traits. It is greyed out. dagger proficiency.

[Havok.6073]

This is not feedback, it's a whinelist. Please remove it from the boards.

[Jacobin.8509]

You can't dodge every 8s and if you do you are more likely to get hit with the stuns/burst. Not attacking for the duration just lets them passively heal. The point is that the survivability is off the charts compared to any other power build.

[Urejt.5648]

NERF THIS OP SHET!

[KryTiKaL.3125]

@Jacobin.8509 said:You can't dodge every 8s and if you do you are more likely to get hit with the stuns/burst. Not attacking for the duration just lets them passively heal. The point is that the survivability is off the charts compared to any other power build.

Except their passive healing isn't always capped out and if they don't land the Full Counter damage then they don't get an Adrenal health stack, and Healing Signet doesn't heal for all that much on its own so avoiding the damage from it not only denies them burst on you but also denies them their sustain. A warrior can't sustain themselves if they can't hit you with any of their burst skills, as well as Full Counter and Full Counter can be dodged. The damage is not instant when the ability gets proc'd, you can time it.

This is so much less about Spellbreaker being OP and more about how people just spam things like crazy. "Oh, better spam my dodge." "Oh, better spam my attacks." Spellbreaker pretty directly punishes this kind of play which is actually very low tier play in PvP. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I've had Plat players just nope me out of getting Full Counter damage off because they either don't proc it or they avoid the damage.

[Daharahj.1325]

After 10 more games as Spellbreaker in platinum I'm confident enough to share the next PSA: If you're trying to increase your rank and you're not playing a Spellbraker, you're deliberately handicapping yourself. This shit is insane.

[Unholy Pillager.3791]

@Master Ketsu.4569 said:As I pointed out in my other thread you can completely avoid full counter by hitting it while queuing an evade. FC has a slight lag and startup time so you can actually dodge in between activating it and it will not hit you.

TL;DR it's a good skill but it's not nearly as unbeatable as people are making it out as.

You should not be punished when one of your teammtes procs it, and the punishment for proccing it is still too harsh. The Spellbreaker can just hit it in the middle of a channeled skill and get far too much benefit for something that the opponent has zero chance of avoiding, especially given the short cooldown of it.

I get it, it's nice that warriors finally got something that works well in sPvP, putting them in the meta there. I think that part is healthy. The unhealthy part is that it's too easy for stupid teammates and channeled skills to prevent counterplay to it, and that it's possibly too strong against condi builds that don't have massive boon stripping (although if it gets weakened against those, it should be strengthened against condi builds that don't boon strip to compensate).

[Mikeskies.1536]

@Unholy Pillager.3791 said:

@Master Ketsu.4569 said:As I pointed out in my other thread you can completely avoid full counter by hitting it while queuing an evade. FC has a slight lag and startup time so you can actually dodge in between activating it and it will not hit you.

TL;DR it's a good skill but it's not nearly as unbeatable as people are making it out as.

You should not be punished when one of your teammtes procs it, and the punishment for proccing it is still too harsh. The Spellbreaker can just hit it in the middle of a channeled skill and get far too much benefit for something that the opponent has zero chance of avoiding, especially given the short cooldown of it.

I get it, it's nice that warriors finally got something that works well in sPvP, putting them in the meta there. I think that part is healthy. The unhealthy part is that it's too easy for stupid teammates and channeled skills to prevent counterplay to it, and that it's possibly too strong against condi builds that don't have massive boon stripping (although if it gets weakened against those, it should be strengthened against condi builds that don't boon strip to compensate).

To be fair, Revenge Counter is strong because Scourge is strong. Spellbreaker returns the Condi-bomb that the Scourge applied. Spellbreaker could get away with not running massive amounts of resistance if Scourge did not exist. Featherfoot Grace and Cleanse on Swap is enough to handle all other conditions-builds. Revenge Counter is probably over-tuned. I'm not sure that it needs the 20% increased damage attached to it.

[Majirah.5089]

I think full counter is good to have in the game. It punishes people that don't have awareness and aoe spam in team fights. There isn't much else that punishes just dumping a bunch of aoes. Plus it is fully avoidable if you and your team pay attention, which is what you should be doing in a match anyway.

If it's a 1v1 it has an obvious animation and you can either stop attaching for 1.5 seconds and completely negate it or dodge/evade the damage. I have done so effectively almost every time I've fought a spellbreaker 1v1. I've also had other people do the same to me in a 1v1 when I am playing spellbreaker. It's not that hard.

If it's a team fight, I think we need more things like full counter to combat the spam dumping of aoes. Puts more thought into it and punishes spam. I think it's a great addition to the game personally. That's my opinion. Some people disagree. That's fine. Some people agree. That's fine. But I personally think it is good for the game.

[Unholy Pillager.3791]

@Majirah.5089 said:I think full counter is good to have in the game. It punishes people that don't have awareness and aoe spam in team fights. There isn't much else that punishes just dumping a bunch of aoes. Plus it is fully avoidable if you and your team pay attention, which is what you should be doing in a match anyway.

If it's a 1v1 it has an obvious animation and you can either stop attaching for 1.5 seconds and completely negate it or dodge/evade the damage. I have done so effectively almost every time I've fought a spellbreaker 1v1. I've also had other people do the same to me in a 1v1 when I am playing spellbreaker. It's not that hard.

If it's a team fight, I think we need more things like full counter to combat the spam dumping of aoes. Puts more thought into it and punishes spam. I think it's a great addition to the game personally. That's my opinion. Some people disagree. That's fine. Some people agree. That's fine. But I personally think it is good for the game.

It is not fully avoidable. All the Spellbreaker has to do is use it in the middle of an AoE or channeled skill, and there is zero chance to avoid it. Besides, I dislike getting punished personally for mistakes my teammates make.

[Daharahj.1325]

@Mikeskies.1536 said:

@Unholy Pillager.3791 said:

@Master Ketsu.4569 said:As I pointed out in my other thread you can completely avoid full counter by hitting it while queuing an evade. FC has a slight lag and startup time so you can actually dodge in between activating it and it will not hit you.

TL;DR it's a good skill but it's not nearly as unbeatable as people are making it out as.

You should not be punished when one of your teammtes procs it, and the punishment for proccing it is still too harsh. The Spellbreaker can just hit it in the middle of a channeled skill and get far too much benefit for something that the opponent has zero chance of avoiding, especially given the short cooldown of it.

I get it, it's nice that warriors finally got something that works well in sPvP, putting them in the meta there. I think that part is healthy. The unhealthy part is that it's too easy for stupid teammates and channeled skills to prevent counterplay to it, and that it's possibly too strong against condi builds that don't have massive boon stripping (although if it gets weakened against those, it should be strengthened against condi builds that don't boon strip to compensate).

To be fair, Revenge Counter is strong because Scourge is strong. Spellbreaker returns the Condi-bomb that the Scourge applied. Spellbreaker could get away with not running massive amounts of resistance if Scourge did not exist. Featherfoot Grace and Cleanse on Swap is enough to handle all other conditions-builds. Revenge Counter is probably over-tuned. I'm not sure that it needs the 20% increased damage attached to it.

That's a good point, I do believe that if the meta were to shift from Scourge to power ranged classes SB would see a very strict decline in play.

That however is very unlikely to happen in conquest mode.