Spellbreaker Feedback

[Majirah.5089]

@Unholy Pillager.3791 said:

@Majirah.5089 said:I think full counter is good to have in the game. It punishes people that don't have awareness and aoe spam in team fights. There isn't much else that punishes just dumping a bunch of aoes. Plus it is fully avoidable if you and your team pay attention, which is what you should be doing in a match anyway.

If it's a 1v1 it has an obvious animation and you can either stop attaching for 1.5 seconds and completely negate it or dodge/evade the damage. I have done so effectively almost every time I've fought a spellbreaker 1v1. I've also had other people do the same to me in a 1v1 when I am playing spellbreaker. It's not that hard.

If it's a team fight, I think we need more things like full counter to combat the spam dumping of aoes. Puts more thought into it and punishes spam. I think it's a great addition to the game personally. That's my opinion. Some people disagree. That's fine. Some people agree. That's fine. But I personally think it is good for the game.

It is not fully avoidable. All the Spellbreaker has to do is use it in the middle of an AoE or channeled skill, and there is zero chance to avoid it. Besides, I dislike getting punished personally for mistakes my teammates make.

How does this make it unavoidable? It can still be dodged or evaded. Bait it and then use your heavy channel or aoe.

[Ario.8964]

@Majirah.5089 said:

@Unholy Pillager.3791 said:

@Majirah.5089 said:I think full counter is good to have in the game. It punishes people that don't have awareness and aoe spam in team fights. There isn't much else that punishes just dumping a bunch of aoes. Plus it is fully avoidable if you and your team pay attention, which is what you should be doing in a match anyway.

If it's a 1v1 it has an obvious animation and you can either stop attaching for 1.5 seconds and completely negate it or dodge/evade the damage. I have done so effectively almost every time I've fought a spellbreaker 1v1. I've also had other people do the same to me in a 1v1 when I am playing spellbreaker. It's not that hard.

If it's a team fight, I think we need more things like full counter to combat the spam dumping of aoes. Puts more thought into it and punishes spam. I think it's a great addition to the game personally. That's my opinion. Some people disagree. That's fine. Some people agree. That's fine. But I personally think it is good for the game.

It is not fully avoidable. All the Spellbreaker has to do is use it in the middle of an AoE or channeled skill, and there is zero chance to avoid it. Besides, I dislike getting punished personally for mistakes my teammates make.

How does this make it unavoidable? It can still be dodged or evaded. Bait it and then use your heavy channel or aoe.

See but now you're asking people to think when they play. That's just silly, I shouldn't have to think to get to legend! I should be able to spam my shit and win because I want to! Oh but nobody else should be able to because that would be op.

[Loop.8106]

This is the thing. Warriors use the term "Stop skillspam" while Warriors are the only class that's allowed to do JUST THAT. You don't have to care about if people have blocks up, attacking or anything else. Simply run into an AoE and get rewarded for it. (Or DH traps which is my favorite part. Test of Faith in particular). Just from a Guards point of view, this means we can't use Symbols or Traps since we don't even have enough dodges for the Full Counters alone, much less all the other skills that needs dodging.

I do however think that the fundementals behind the skill is great in that it punishes people that are not paying attention. I would however liked to see it on literally any other class but warrior. Because paired with the amount of Resistance + Endures you already had makes it more than frustrating to play against.

[Ario.8964]

@Loop.8106 said:This is the thing. Warriors use the term "Stop skillspam" while Warriors are the only class that's allowed to do JUST THAT. You don't have to care about if people have blocks up, attacking or anything else. Simply run into an AoE and get rewarded for it. (Or DH traps which is my favorite part. Test of Faith in particular). Just from a Guards point of view, this means we can't use Symbols or Traps since we don't even have enough dodges for the Full Counters alone, much less all the other skills that needs dodging.

I do however think that the fundementals behind the skill is great in that it punishes people that are not paying attention. I would however liked to see it on literally any other class but warrior. Because paired with the amount of Resistance + Endures you already had makes it more than frustrating to play against.

Literally all of what you just said is good, counters exist to traps and such, thats good. It's like how dh was the be all end all hardcounter to thief, now there's a counter to that so a lot of comp/building in the meta will be (ideally after balance changes) volatile due to every class having a counter existing in the game so there is no #1 best comp and best builds to run

[Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485]

@Unholy Pillager.3791 said:

@Majirah.5089 said:I think full counter is good to have in the game. It punishes people that don't have awareness and aoe spam in team fights. There isn't much else that punishes just dumping a bunch of aoes. Plus it is fully avoidable if you and your team pay attention, which is what you should be doing in a match anyway.

If it's a 1v1 it has an obvious animation and you can either stop attaching for 1.5 seconds and completely negate it or dodge/evade the damage. I have done so effectively almost every time I've fought a spellbreaker 1v1. I've also had other people do the same to me in a 1v1 when I am playing spellbreaker. It's not that hard.

If it's a team fight, I think we need more things like full counter to combat the spam dumping of aoes. Puts more thought into it and punishes spam. I think it's a great addition to the game personally. That's my opinion. Some people disagree. That's fine. Some people agree. That's fine. But I personally think it is good for the game.

It is not fully avoidable. All the Spellbreaker has to do is use it in the middle of an AoE or channeled skill, and there is zero chance to avoid it. Besides, I dislike getting punished personally for mistakes my teammates make.

yes you should be punished for your team play, that's why you are in a team. Teams make or break any team based game, its not a solo endeavour.

[Darknicrofia.2604]

Warriors however, gets punished for nothing, not even double proccing endure pains because those apparently stack in duration.

Its up to every single other person to MLG the warrior watching his animations and counting to 8, while the warrior can faceroll across his keyboard blindfolded and get passive procs for doing nothing.

[Majirah.5089]

@Darknicrofia.2604 said:Warriors however, gets punished for nothing, not even double proccing endure pains because those apparently stack in duration.

Its up to every single other person to MLG the warrior watching his animations and counting to 8, while the warrior can faceroll across his keyboard blindfolded and get passive procs for doing nothing.

So you don't have to watch other class animations? Do you just spam attack in guardian renewed focus? How about shield of wrath? Or any other block, invulnerability?

How about more offensive animations? What about all the dragon hunters that said to people complaining about traps "just dodge out of them" and dodge spear of justice. I mean they are obvious animations right?

I don't just mindlessly spam my attacks into other class invulnerabilities because I pay attention. I dodge their obvious offensive cool downs. I honestly don't see how people are making such a big deal out of this.

Yes I do expect you to learn other class abilities and pay attention to them when you are fighting said class.

No other class gets passive procs? Really?

[Unholy Pillager.3791]

@Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 said:

@Unholy Pillager.3791 said:

@Majirah.5089 said:I think full counter is good to have in the game. It punishes people that don't have awareness and aoe spam in team fights. There isn't much else that punishes just dumping a bunch of aoes. Plus it is fully avoidable if you and your team pay attention, which is what you should be doing in a match anyway.

If it's a 1v1 it has an obvious animation and you can either stop attaching for 1.5 seconds and completely negate it or dodge/evade the damage. I have done so effectively almost every time I've fought a spellbreaker 1v1. I've also had other people do the same to me in a 1v1 when I am playing spellbreaker. It's not that hard.

If it's a team fight, I think we need more things like full counter to combat the spam dumping of aoes. Puts more thought into it and punishes spam. I think it's a great addition to the game personally. That's my opinion. Some people disagree. That's fine. Some people agree. That's fine. But I personally think it is good for the game.

It is not fully avoidable. All the Spellbreaker has to do is use it in the middle of an AoE or channeled skill, and there is zero chance to avoid it. Besides, I dislike getting punished personally for mistakes my teammates make.

yes you should be punished for your team play, that's why you are in a team. Teams make or break any team based game, its not a solo endeavour.

Punishment as a team is different from punishment personally. I have no issues with losing a game because my teammates screw up, but I do have a problem with losing half my health and getting cced constantly because of it.

Plus, Spellbreaker punishes some professions not for making a mistake, but simply for using their skills properly...but it doesn't get punished in turn for using its skills improperly.

[Mikeskies.1536]

@Unholy Pillager.3791 said:

@Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 said:

@Unholy Pillager.3791 said:

@Majirah.5089 said:I think full counter is good to have in the game. It punishes people that don't have awareness and aoe spam in team fights. There isn't much else that punishes just dumping a bunch of aoes. Plus it is fully avoidable if you and your team pay attention, which is what you should be doing in a match anyway.

If it's a 1v1 it has an obvious animation and you can either stop attaching for 1.5 seconds and completely negate it or dodge/evade the damage. I have done so effectively almost every time I've fought a spellbreaker 1v1. I've also had other people do the same to me in a 1v1 when I am playing spellbreaker. It's not that hard.

If it's a team fight, I think we need more things like full counter to combat the spam dumping of aoes. Puts more thought into it and punishes spam. I think it's a great addition to the game personally. That's my opinion. Some people disagree. That's fine. Some people agree. That's fine. But I personally think it is good for the game.

It is not fully avoidable. All the Spellbreaker has to do is use it in the middle of an AoE or channeled skill, and there is zero chance to avoid it. Besides, I dislike getting punished personally for mistakes my teammates make.

yes you should be punished for your team play, that's why you are in a team. Teams make or break any team based game, its not a solo endeavour.

Punishment as a team is different from punishment personally. I have no issues with losing a game because my teammates screw up, but I do have a problem with losing half my health and getting cced constantly because of it.

Plus, Spellbreaker punishes some professions not for making a mistake, but simply for using their skills properly...but it doesn't get punished in turn for using its skills improperly.

What are you talking about? Endure Pain lasts 2 sec. If that is mistimed, there goes your damage immunity. If I mistime Full Counter, I expose myself and miss out on a Burst reset, and other Burst related traits. Playing Spellbreaker, people are already getting used to not attacking while it is up, then following up with strong attacks and cc. Warrior gets punished in the same way other specs get punished for misplaying.

[Darknicrofia.2604]

There's a difference between "don't spam AoEs" and "don't use AoEs period".

SBs can walk into any AoE period and trigger FC, are Warrior mains telling the rest of pvp to stop using abilities that affect more than 1 target period?

[Havok.6073]

No, we are telling the rest of the pvp community that the days of "imma drop a ton of shit into this point right here, with my teammate dropping another ton on top just in case the opposite team attempts to capture a point, while i turtle up and pretend to be a competent player but in reality i just walk about my own aoe"....are over. Adapt, evolve, win. Spellbreaker is not OP, it's Anet's way to shake things up, it's not the end of the world, stop whining and pretending it is.

[Euthymias.7984]

So how does one deal with Full Counter 1v1 when it can still smack clones/pets/minions even when you dodge it, thus providing the benefits to the SB despite missing the player?

[Majirah.5089]

@Euthymias.7984 said:So how does one deal with Full Counter 1v1 when it can still smack clones/pets/minions even when you dodge it, thus providing the benefits to the SB despite missing the player?

It's not like it should never hit enemy players. I have dodged it many times. Most of the time. But not 100% of the time. If it was always dodged it would be useless. The point is that it can be dodged and avoided contrary to popular belief.

[raul.7859]

nerf it or delete this shit class

[Majirah.5089]

@Darknicrofia.2604 said:There's a difference between "don't spam AoEs" and "don't use AoEs period".

SBs can walk into any AoE period and trigger FC, are Warrior mains telling the rest of pvp to stop using abilities that affect more than 1 target period?

Not a warrior main. And I'm not saying that. I'm saying actually think when you use it. Or drop it on them but stay outside full counter range. Plenty of play options.

[Euthymias.7984]

@Majirah.5089 said:

It's not like it should never hit enemy players. I have dodged it many times. Most of the time. But not 100% of the time. If it was always dodged it would be useless. The point is that it can be dodged and avoided contrary to popular belief.

You didnt quite answer my question.Even if it misses the player, it can still give the benefits (resistance, cleanse, stab, Adrenal Health, ect) by hitting their AI allies. That's what I was asking about.

[Unholy Pillager.3791]

@Euthymias.7984 said:

@Majirah.5089 said:

It's not like it should never hit enemy players. I have dodged it many times. Most of the time. But not 100% of the time. If it was always dodged it would be useless. The point is that it can be dodged and avoided contrary to popular belief.

You didnt quite answer my question.Even if it misses the player, it can still give the benefits (resistance, cleanse, stab, Adrenal Health, ect) by hitting their AI allies. That's what I was asking about.

Given the defenses of it I've seen so far, I wouldn't be surprised if a Warrior main told Mesmers not to use illusions against Spellbreaker. While I think that Spellbreaker is a good direction to take the profession for sPvP, it does need to be toned down some.

[Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485]

@Euthymias.7984 said:

@Majirah.5089 said:

It's not like it should never hit enemy players. I have dodged it many times. Most of the time. But not 100% of the time. If it was always dodged it would be useless. The point is that it can be dodged and avoided contrary to popular belief.

You didnt quite answer my question.Even if it misses the player, it can still give the benefits (resistance, cleanse, stab, Adrenal Health, ect) by hitting their AI allies. That's what I was asking about.

cant you shatter them? (Mesmer)Pets can be taken off attack to follow the ranger away from the counter range.

[Daharahj.1325]

@Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 said:

@Euthymias.7984 said:

@Majirah.5089 said:

It's not like it should never hit enemy players. I have dodged it many times. Most of the time. But not 100% of the time. If it was always dodged it would be useless. The point is that it can be dodged and avoided contrary to popular belief.

You didnt quite answer my question.Even if it misses the player, it can still give the benefits (resistance, cleanse, stab, Adrenal Health, ect) by hitting their AI allies. That's what I was asking about.

cant you shatter them? (Mesmer)Pets can be taken off attack to follow the ranger away from the counter range.

No, you can't shatter without triggering full counter.

[Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485]

@Daharahj.1325 said:

@Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 said:

@Euthymias.7984 said:

@Majirah.5089 said:

It's not like it should never hit enemy players. I have dodged it many times. Most of the time. But not 100% of the time. If it was always dodged it would be useless. The point is that it can be dodged and avoided contrary to popular belief.

You didnt quite answer my question.Even if it misses the player, it can still give the benefits (resistance, cleanse, stab, Adrenal Health, ect) by hitting their AI allies. That's what I was asking about.

cant you shatter them? (Mesmer)Pets can be taken off attack to follow the ranger away from the counter range.

No, you can't shatter without triggering full counter.

Well i guess the problem is, you are expecting all professions to be able to perfectly fight any other prof without being sub-optimal. It just is not going to happen. Your best bet would be to have your team alternate with you, nothing says you have to be the one to take on every threat right? You probably have better use of your prof than to battle out a bad match up.

[Daharahj.1325]

@Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 said:

@Daharahj.1325 said:

@Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 said:

@Euthymias.7984 said:

@Majirah.5089 said:

It's not like it should never hit enemy players. I have dodged it many times. Most of the time. But not 100% of the time. If it was always dodged it would be useless. The point is that it can be dodged and avoided contrary to popular belief.

You didnt quite answer my question.Even if it misses the player, it can still give the benefits (resistance, cleanse, stab, Adrenal Health, ect) by hitting their AI allies. That's what I was asking about.

cant you shatter them? (Mesmer)Pets can be taken off attack to follow the ranger away from the counter range.

No, you can't shatter without triggering full counter.

Well i guess the problem is, you are expecting all professions to be able to perfectly fight any other prof without being sub-optimal. It just is not going to happen. Your best bet would be to have your team alternate with you, nothing says you have to be the one to take on every threat right? You probably have better use of your prof than to battle out a bad match up.

So if there's a mesmer on my team should I just tell him to avoid any teamfight where a warrior might be present?

[Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485]

@Daharahj.1325 said:

@Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 said:

@Daharahj.1325 said:

@Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 said:

@Euthymias.7984 said:

@Majirah.5089 said:

It's not like it should never hit enemy players. I have dodged it many times. Most of the time. But not 100% of the time. If it was always dodged it would be useless. The point is that it can be dodged and avoided contrary to popular belief.

You didnt quite answer my question.Even if it misses the player, it can still give the benefits (resistance, cleanse, stab, Adrenal Health, ect) by hitting their AI allies. That's what I was asking about.

cant you shatter them? (Mesmer)Pets can be taken off attack to follow the ranger away from the counter range.

No, you can't shatter without triggering full counter.

Well i guess the problem is, you are expecting all professions to be able to perfectly fight any other prof without being sub-optimal. It just is not going to happen. Your best bet would be to have your team alternate with you, nothing says you have to be the one to take on every threat right? You probably have better use of your prof than to battle out a bad match up.

So if there's a mesmer on my team should I just tell him to avoid any teamfight where a warrior might be present?

No you have them hold out and swap out with them as needed (if they are even having that hard a time that is.)

[Daharahj.1325]

@Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 said:

@Daharahj.1325 said:

@Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 said:

@Daharahj.1325 said:

@Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 said:

@Euthymias.7984 said:

@Majirah.5089 said:

It's not like it should never hit enemy players. I have dodged it many times. Most of the time. But not 100% of the time. If it was always dodged it would be useless. The point is that it can be dodged and avoided contrary to popular belief.

You didnt quite answer my question.Even if it misses the player, it can still give the benefits (resistance, cleanse, stab, Adrenal Health, ect) by hitting their AI allies. That's what I was asking about.

cant you shatter them? (Mesmer)Pets can be taken off attack to follow the ranger away from the counter range.

No, you can't shatter without triggering full counter.

Well i guess the problem is, you are expecting all professions to be able to perfectly fight any other prof without being sub-optimal. It just is not going to happen. Your best bet would be to have your team alternate with you, nothing says you have to be the one to take on every threat right? You probably have better use of your prof than to battle out a bad match up.

So if there's a mesmer on my team should I just tell him to avoid any teamfight where a warrior might be present?

No you have them hold out and swap out with them as needed (if they are even having that hard a time that is.)

So you're expecting my team to have unrealistic coordination just because there's a warrior on the other side.

What's the warrior giving up for this kind of strength exactly?

[Majirah.5089]

@Daharahj.1325 said:

@Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 said:

@Daharahj.1325 said:

@Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 said:

@Daharahj.1325 said:

@Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 said:

@Euthymias.7984 said:

@Majirah.5089 said:

It's not like it should never hit enemy players. I have dodged it many times. Most of the time. But not 100% of the time. If it was always dodged it would be useless. The point is that it can be dodged and avoided contrary to popular belief.

You didnt quite answer my question.Even if it misses the player, it can still give the benefits (resistance, cleanse, stab, Adrenal Health, ect) by hitting their AI allies. That's what I was asking about.

cant you shatter them? (Mesmer)Pets can be taken off attack to follow the ranger away from the counter range.

No, you can't shatter without triggering full counter.

Well i guess the problem is, you are expecting all professions to be able to perfectly fight any other prof without being sub-optimal. It just is not going to happen. Your best bet would be to have your team alternate with you, nothing says you have to be the one to take on every threat right? You probably have better use of your prof than to battle out a bad match up.

So if there's a mesmer on my team should I just tell him to avoid any teamfight where a warrior might be present?

No you have them hold out and swap out with them as needed (if they are even having that hard a time that is.)

So you're expecting my team to have unrealistic coordination just because there's a warrior on the other side.

What's the warrior giving up for this kind of strength exactly?

So there isn't 4 other players the Mesmer can fight or enemy points it can decap? It MUST attack the warrior? Heaven forbid he gets off a full counter. It's not like clones don't provide benefits to the Mesmer either. There are pros and cons. What is so hard about either baiting full counter or waiting till they use it to attack? If the warrior just ran into a team he will likely use it pretty quickly. 1.5 seconds later have your clones shatter on him.

People are acting like they are required to do differential equations when it comes to thinking about how to play or adapting to a situation. It really isn't that difficult.

[Daharahj.1325]

@Majirah.5089 said:

@Daharahj.1325 said:

@Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 said:

@Daharahj.1325 said:

@Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 said:

@Daharahj.1325 said:

@Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 said:

@Euthymias.7984 said:

@Majirah.5089 said:

It's not like it should never hit enemy players. I have dodged it many times. Most of the time. But not 100% of the time. If it was always dodged it would be useless. The point is that it can be dodged and avoided contrary to popular belief.

You didnt quite answer my question.Even if it misses the player, it can still give the benefits (resistance, cleanse, stab, Adrenal Health, ect) by hitting their AI allies. That's what I was asking about.

cant you shatter them? (Mesmer)Pets can be taken off attack to follow the ranger away from the counter range.

No, you can't shatter without triggering full counter.

Well i guess the problem is, you are expecting all professions to be able to perfectly fight any other prof without being sub-optimal. It just is not going to happen. Your best bet would be to have your team alternate with you, nothing says you have to be the one to take on every threat right? You probably have better use of your prof than to battle out a bad match up.

So if there's a mesmer on my team should I just tell him to avoid any teamfight where a warrior might be present?

No you have them hold out and swap out with them as needed (if they are even having that hard a time that is.)

So you're expecting my team to have unrealistic coordination just because there's a warrior on the other side.

What's the warrior giving up for this kind of strength exactly?

So there isn't 4 other players the Mesmer can fight or enemy points it can decap? It MUST attack the warrior? Heaven forbid he gets off a full counter. It's not like clones don't provide benefits to the Mesmer either. There are pros and cons. What is so hard about either baiting full counter or waiting till they use it to attack? If the warrior just ran into a team he will likely use it pretty quickly. 1.5 seconds later have your clones shatter on him.

People are acting like they are required to do differential equations when it comes to thinking about how to play or adapting to a situation. It really isn't that difficult.

But that throws your "just don't trigger fullcounter" defense right out the window, since it's guaranteed to trigger if the Warrior has any sense and stands in bad on purpose.