Remove All Evade Frames from Mirage Cloak

[MrPhantasia.5924]

Mirage is one of the elite specializations that doesn't have a trade off. They get a super dodge and ambush attacks and they don't give up any of their Shatter skills. I think the trade off for specing Mirage should be the removal of all evade frames from the dodge skill, that way spending an endurance bar just opens up your ambush attack windowns. That way there would be a fair trade off, gain ambush attacks but you lose all defensive value from your dodge roll. This will actually bring mirage in line with the rest of the meta.

This will also help balance other morage traits such as Infinite Horizon, making clones capable of being cleaved down.

[phokus.8934]

No and stop with the bad ideas. Think before you make suggestions.

[derd.6413]

this is brilliant, i'll call my uncle at nintendo to have it implemented immediately

[Warscythes.9307]

No, I don't like mirage either but this has to be one of the dumbest suggestions.

[Alatar.7364]

At this point in Forums, I am no longer sure if this is a troll post or not

[derd.6413]

@"Alatar.7364" said:At this point in Forums, I am no longer sure if this is a troll post or not

i'm assuming it's a troll post because the alternative would just make me sad

[MrPhantasia.5924]

@Warscythes.9307 said:No, I don't like mirage either but this has to be one of the dumbest suggestions.

Mirage main spotted.

[Warscythes.9307]

@MrPhantasia.5924 said:

@Warscythes.9307 said:No, I don't like mirage either but this has to be one of the dumbest suggestions.

Mirage main spotted.

Do you not see my avatar and my account name? And therefore it should be fairly obvious why I don't like mirages?

[derd.6413]

@Warscythes.9307 said:

@MrPhantasia.5924 said:

@Warscythes.9307 said:No, I don't like mirage either but this has to be one of the dumbest suggestions.

Mirage main spotted.

Do you not see my avatar and my account name? And therefore it should be fairly obvious why I don't like mirages?

daredevil main then

[Curunen.8729]

Picking up something on the sarcasm detector, but the signal is very faint...

[MithranArkanere.8957]

That would be so utterly insane I cannot take this post seriously. A profession cannot lose the ability to dodge. The entirety of the content is build with that as one of the pillars. It's the greatest survival tool with no comparison.

At most, you could take Mirage down a notch by not being able to use during a Mirage Cloak any skill that can't be used while evading as a core mesmer. So they can't use too many skills without being interrupted.Those skills that have a channeling time and get interrupted while evading, like Phantasms and charging mantras.They would still be able to use during Mirage Cloak all mirage skills: Axe skills, Ambushes, Deceptions and any skill with 0 channeling time core mesmers can use while evading like shatters and Blink.Then maybe change one of their traits to turn Distortion into an ammo skill with 5s skill recharge and 10% longer ammo recharge, so they can still use skills without risk of being interrupted more often than core mesmer.

But for an actual decent trade-off, it should be something that core has but elite specializations do not, so changes can be done to it without affecting elites. That allows giving extra power to core specs without elite specs getting that too, which allows better balance. For example, a new F5 skill that does something nice but not extremely powerful, like:

• A new shatter that causes a bit of Slow.
• A skill that creates a clone that wields the alternate weapon set instead your current one.
• A skill that updates the weapons of your clones to that of your current weapon set.
• A skill that makes the next Phantasm you create be destroyed instantly and take +15s to recharge, but temporarily gain their weapon for a few seconds in exchange.

[MrPhantasia.5924]

@MithranArkanere.8957 said:That would be so utterly insane I cannot take this post seriously. A profession cannot lose the ability to dodge. The entirety of the content is build with that as one of the pillars. It's the greatest survival tool with no comparison.

Damage can be it's own survival skill. Mirage already has the condition damage output of a god and just being near one is dangerous. Losing evade on dodge would bring it inline with other meta builds and would be healthy for the game. Mirage doesn't need you white knighting them.

But for an actual decent trade-off, it should be something that core has but elite specializations do not,

Which is what my change would create; core mesmer can dodge and evade attacks while Mirage wouldn't be able to. Lord knows they have enough evades, invulns, blocks, stuns, and blinks on their class mechanics, weapon skills and utilities. I am 100% convinced a top tier PvP player could earn God of PvP without ever pressing their dodge button. Heck, it might actually make it an interesting challenge.

• A new shatter that causes a bit of Slow.
• A skill that creates a clone that wields the alternate weapon set instead your current one.
• A skill that updates the weapons of your clones to that of your current weapon set.
• A skill that makes the next Phantasm you create be destroyed instantly and take +15s to recharge, but temporarily gain their weapon for a few seconds in exchange.

Mesmer does not need any buffs, ever again.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

The mirage meme continues.

And i love it.

[MithranArkanere.8957]

@MrPhantasia.5924 said:

@MithranArkanere.8957 said:That would be so utterly insane I cannot take this post seriously. A profession cannot lose the ability to dodge. The entirety of the content is build with that as one of the pillars. It's the greatest survival tool with no comparison.

Damage can be it's own survival skill. Mirage already has the condition damage output of a god and just being near one is dangerous. Losing evade on dodge would bring it inline with other meta builds and would be healthy for the game. Mirage doesn't need you white knighting them.Damage can be a

deterrent

, but it won't save anyone from the countless deadly attacks used by bosses all over PvE and ganky builds in WvW.Evade is too fundamental to remove it. It can be changed, but never removed.

But for an actual decent trade-off, it should be something that core has but elite specializations do not,

Which is what my change would create; core mesmer can dodge and evade attacks while Mirage wouldn't be able to. Lord knows they have enough evades, invulns, blocks, stuns, and blinks on their class mechanics, weapon skills and utilities. I am 100% convinced a top tier PvP player could earn God of PvP without ever pressing their dodge button. Heck, it might actually make it an interesting challenge.

Are you planning on removing dodges from Chronomancer too? And from any future elite specs? A proper profession mechanic tradeoff has to be something no elite specialization gets, like the new F2 skill Core Reveanant is getting. Otherwise any change you do to it to improve core mesmer would also go to the elite specs that also have it.Take Daredevil's extra 50 max endurance. Is that a tradeoff? Nope. It's a bonus. What's the tradeoff? Their steal skill is replaced by one with a shorter range. Now you can make changes to Steal that will affect Core thief alone without affecting Swipe and Deadeye's Mark. Now thieves have a key element that helps with balance between thief specs.Guardians trade their virtues, elementalists the way they attune, necromancers their shroud, warriors lose Tier 3 bursts, revenants get their echo skill replaced, thieves get their steal replaced, holosmith replaces the elite F5 toolbelt skill...All that's left is replacements/loses for mesmer, ranger, and scrapper.

• A new shatter that causes a bit of Slow.
• A skill that creates a clone that wields the alternate weapon set instead your current one.
• A skill that updates the weapons of your clones to that of your current weapon set.
• A skill that makes the next Phantasm you create be destroyed instantly and take +15s to recharge, but temporarily gain their weapon for a few seconds in exchange.

Mesmer does not need any buffs, ever again.

Chronomancer and Mirage may not. But core mesmer may need them sometimes to compete with elite specs. Without a trade-off no elite spect will get, you cannot do such improvements to core alone.

Core mesmer does need something that will be traded off to go Elite, but the dodge definitely is not it.

[MrPhantasia.5924]

@MithranArkanere.8957 said:

@MrPhantasia.5924 said:

@MithranArkanere.8957 said:That would be so utterly insane I cannot take this post seriously. A profession cannot lose the ability to dodge. The entirety of the content is build with that as one of the pillars. It's the greatest survival tool with no comparison.

Damage can be it's own survival skill. Mirage already has the condition damage output of a god and just being near one is dangerous. Losing evade on dodge would bring it inline with other meta builds and would be healthy for the game. Mirage doesn't need you white knighting them.Damage can be a

deterrent

, but it won't save anyone from the countless deadly attacks used by bosses all over PvE and ganky builds in WvW.Evade is too fundamental to remove it. It can be changed, but never removed.

Mesmers have more than enough evade without a dodge roll. You just sound like you lack conviction. I don't know why you're defending Mirage or Mesmer. They do not deserve to exist in competitive mode.

But for an actual decent trade-off, it should be something that core has but elite specializations do not,

Which is what my change would create; core mesmer can dodge and evade attacks while Mirage wouldn't be able to. Lord knows they have enough evades, invulns, blocks, stuns, and blinks on their class mechanics, weapon skills and utilities. I am 100% convinced a top tier PvP player could earn God of PvP without ever pressing their dodge button. Heck, it might actually make it an interesting challenge.

Are you planning on removing dodges from Chronomancer too? And from any future elite specs? A proper profession mechanic tradeoff has to be something no elite specialization gets, like the new F2 skill Core Reveanant is getting. Otherwise any change you do to it to improve core mesmer would also go to the elite specs that also have it.

I'd remove all their F Skills in exchange for Continuum Split. All of them.

• A new shatter that causes a bit of Slow.
• A skill that creates a clone that wields the alternate weapon set instead your current one.
• A skill that updates the weapons of your clones to that of your current weapon set.
• A skill that makes the next Phantasm you create be destroyed instantly and take +15s to recharge, but temporarily gain their weapon for a few seconds in exchange.

Mesmer does not need any buffs, ever again.

Chronomancer and Mirage may not. But core mesmer may need them sometimes to compete with elite specs. Without a trade-off no elite spect will get, you cannot do such improvements to core alone.

Core mesmer does need something that will be traded off to go Elite, but the dodge

definitely

is

not

it.

Nah. Everyone knows Guild Wars 2 PvP gets better for everyone the less mesmers there are. I'd nerf more of core mesmer too. It's still too strong, simply overshadowed by how OP Chronomancer and Mirage are.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

No.

They still need to be able to defend themselves from attacks.

We can certainly look into tradeoffs for being able to baseline evade while stunned though. How about we sap their vitality a bit like they're doing with zerker and toughness?

[Azaka.8315]

Not sure if serious, but just as a hint what the tradeoff for Mirage is:If you use stamina for the offense you can't use it for the defense, using it for both is hard to do under circumstances and that is where skill comes into play.The thing I find funny about this stuff (serious or troll) is that people still think that condi Mirage is a thing. Yes, it can still be good if you run zero cleanse, but otherwise it is pretty much dead.

[UNOwen.7132]

@Azaka.8315 said:Not sure if serious, but just as a hint what the tradeoff for Mirage is:If you use stamina for the offense you can't use it for the defense, using it for both is hard to do under circumstances and that is where skill comes into play.The thing I find funny about this stuff (serious or troll) is that people still think that condi Mirage is a thing. Yes, it can still be good if you run zero cleanse, but otherwise it is pretty much dead.

I think the joke is that after DD was nerfed for having no downsides compared to core (which is already not true, it actually had downsides, and was already outclassed in most gamemodes), the same should be done to Chrono or Mirage which compared to core dont have downsides. Except even thats not true, Mirage Cloak doesnt give you movement which is a downside.

[Azaka.8315]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Azaka.8315 said:Not sure if serious, but just as a hint what the tradeoff for Mirage is:If you use stamina for the offense you can't use it for the defense, using it for both is hard to do under circumstances and that is where skill comes into play.The thing I find funny about this stuff (serious or troll) is that people still think that condi Mirage is a thing. Yes, it can still be good if you run zero cleanse, but otherwise it is pretty much dead.

I think the joke is that after DD was nerfed for having no downsides compared to core (which is already not true, it actually had downsides, and was already outclassed in most gamemodes), the same should be done to Chrono or Mirage which compared to core dont have downsides. Except even thats not true, Mirage Cloak doesnt give you movement which is a downside.

Mirage cloak is a sidegrade. In situations it can be better in situations it can be worse, but it always has a tradeoff for more damage for the cost of survivability.

[UNOwen.7132]

@Azaka.8315 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Azaka.8315 said:Not sure if serious, but just as a hint what the tradeoff for Mirage is:If you use stamina for the offense you can't use it for the defense, using it for both is hard to do under circumstances and that is where skill comes into play.The thing I find funny about this stuff (serious or troll) is that people still think that condi Mirage is a thing. Yes, it can still be good if you run zero cleanse, but otherwise it is pretty much dead.

I think the joke is that after DD was nerfed for having no downsides compared to core (which is already not true, it actually had downsides, and was already outclassed in most gamemodes), the same should be done to Chrono or Mirage which compared to core dont have downsides. Except even thats not true, Mirage Cloak doesnt give you movement which is a downside.

Mirage cloak is a sidegrade. In situations it can be better in situations it can be worse, but it always has a tradeoff for more damage for the cost of survivability.

It is, but not for that reason. Its a sidegrade because it doesnt have mobility. The fact that if you use the added power of attacking during it and bonus skills you get from it, you dont get the regular dodge doesnt matter, because you can just not do that and use it as regular dodges. If it also moved (which obviously wouldnt even work), it would actually be a strict upgrade.

[Abelisk.5148]

I said this before: Mirage Cloak is already a trade-off. You can cast skills while evading but you can't backpedal or strafe nearly as well as a normal dodge.

[Biggie Shorty.8190]

OP, are you still dying to mirage? What class do you play? Also I don't understand the reasoning, how can removing something every other spec has bring it in line with the rest?

[Euthymias.7984]

Absolutely not. What a ridiculous suggestion.

[Simonoly.4352]

I'm calling Poe's on this one.

[Curunen.8729]

@MrPhantasia.5924 said:... They do not deserve to exist in competitive mode....I'd remove all their F Skills in exchange for Continuum Split. All of them....Everyone knows Guild Wars 2 PvP gets better for everyone the less mesmers there are. I'd nerf more of core mesmer too. It's still too strong...

3 romulan vessels detected decloaking off the port bow. Evasive manoeuvres!