Daredevil Swipe "unique" suggestion

[Exitus.3297]

Hey people,

I know there are already a litany of posts like this suggesting changes to Swipe. I've definitely commented on a bunch of them. Like many, I'm disappointed with the changes. I'm specifically disappointed by the fact that the changes were meant to be a "tradeoff" to make the Daredevil unique when in came out to be just a nerf justified by being unblockable. I started toying with ideas on how the Daredevil class skill could be made to be unique and I thought about how other elite specs do it... I came up with an idea that I have been toying with a bit and I wanted to share it. I'm still juggling with this a bit so please bear with me.

Here is my idea:

Put the range on Swipe to at least 900. Make it blockable and function like base Steal in every other area. Then, remove all of the stolen skills. Replace them with a single skill that the Daredevil gains regardless of whom they Swipe it from, if it lands. Even though it would be the same skill no matter what target the Daredevil Swipes to, it would still function technically like a stolen skill (aka it would be affected by Improvisation). It also would stay in the F2 slot and you could can hang on to the skill for as long as you want like other stolen skills.

I know what people are thinking already: this would gimp them against certain classes because some stolen skills are really good (Consume Plasma, Blinding Tuft, etc). My response to that is twofold: 1) It would replace equally bad/useless stolen skills. 2) It's worth it as long as the "tradeoff" is good.

I've gone through dozens of ideas in my head of what this "swiped" skill would do. It would certainly need to do damage. Maybe it can have CC on it to make skills like Fist Flurry easier to land (it would also fall in line to be similar to Physical Skills because they also have CC on them). Maybe this skill can be unblockable as opposed to Swipe itself. Maybe it can have an evade on it paired with an attack, similar to Pistol Whip. Maybe Swipe could get a name change. I am honestly not sure of what it would do. I just know the skill would have to be good enough that it is worth losing the base stolen skills. Even if it would be "too good" when paired with Improvisation, they could just put a cooldown on the skill of ~10 seconds like they did with Seed of Life (Ranger stolen skill).

The thing that occurred to me thinking about this is that if ANet is trying to make the Daredevil "unique" through tradeoffs, why are they going after Steal and not the skills it provides? The thing that makes Core Thief unique is the fact they literally steal things from their opponents, and what they steal depends on who they steal from. One of the differences between a good Thief and a great Thief after all is how they use their stolen skills in fights creatively. They can use the Whirling Axe they stole from a Warrior against a Ranger with its reflect mechanic, or use the Ranger's Seed of Life in team fights for condi cleanse. In context to the Thief, the Daredevil doesn't have to "steal" anything, just like the Deadeye (who gains new "stolen" skills altogether). The Deadeye is not just a Thief, or they may not be a Thief at all, and the Daredevil doesn't have to be either. That could be the tradeoff.

What does everyone else think?

[InsaneQR.7412]

Well I think a daredevil maybe no longer steals and just attacks bare handedly.A tradeoff I could get behind.

[Bunny.9834]

I like the idea of a single skill F2.

Art of the ChaseGain quickness (4s) and superspeed (4s).Your next attack causes cripple (4s) and immobilize (2s)UnblockableBreaks Stun

[omgdracula.6345]

This is an idea I can get behind.

[SehferViega.8725]

@"Exitus.3297" said:Hey people,

I know there are already a litany of posts like this suggesting changes to Swipe. I've definitely commented on a bunch of them. Like many, I'm disappointed with the changes. I'm specifically disappointed by the fact that the changes were meant to be a "tradeoff" to make the Daredevil unique when in came out to be just a nerf justified by being unblockable. I started toying with ideas on how the Daredevil class skill could be made to be unique and I thought about how other elite specs do it... I came up with an idea that I have been toying with a bit and I wanted to share it. I'm still juggling with this a bit so please bear with me.

Here is my idea:

Put the range on Swipe to at least 900. Make it blockable and function like base Steal in every other area. Then, remove all of the stolen skills. Replace them with a single skill that the Daredevil gains regardless of whom they Swipe it from, if it lands. Even though it would be the same skill no matter what target the Daredevil Swipes to, it would still function technically like a stolen skill (aka it would be affected by Improvisation). It also would stay in the F2 slot and you could can hang on to the skill for as long as you want like other stolen skills.

I know what people are thinking already: this would kitten them against certain classes because some stolen skills are really good (Consume Plasma, Blinding Tuft, etc). My response to that is twofold: 1) It would replace equally bad/useless stolen skills. 2) It's worth it as long as the "tradeoff" is good.

I've gone through dozens of ideas in my head of what this "swiped" skill would do. It would certainly need to do damage. Maybe it can have CC on it to make skills like Fist Flurry easier to land (it would also fall in line to be similar to Physical Skills because they also have CC on them). Maybe this skill can be unblockable as opposed to Swipe itself. Maybe it can have an evade on it paired with an attack, similar to Pistol Whip. Maybe Swipe could get a name change. I am honestly not sure of what it would do. I just know the skill would have to be good enough that it is worth losing the base stolen skills. Even if it would be "too good" when paired with Improvisation, they could just put a cooldown on the skill of ~10 seconds like they did with Seed of Life (Ranger stolen skill).

The thing that occurred to me thinking about this is that if ANet is trying to make the Daredevil "unique" through tradeoffs, why are they going after Steal and not the skills it provides? The thing that makes Core Thief unique is the fact they literally steal things from their opponents, and what they steal depends on who they steal from. One of the differences between a good Thief and a great Thief after all is how they use their stolen skills in fights creatively. They can use the Whirling Axe they stole from a Warrior against a Ranger with its reflect mechanic, or use the Ranger's Seed of Life in team fights for condi cleanse. In context to the Thief, the Daredevil doesn't have to "steal" anything, just like the Deadeye (who gains new "stolen" skills altogether). The Deadeye is not just a Thief, or they may not be a Thief at all, and the Daredevil doesn't have to be either. That could be the tradeoff.

What does everyone else think?

Option1:

• Swipe: 900 range + unblockable + Stolen skills
• Steal: no changes.

Option2:

• Swipe: 1200 range + unblockable + 25 seconds of recharge time (like Deadeye's mark) + No Stolen skills (so Improvisation on Daredevil would be reduced to " One random skill category is immediately recharged when you steal."). Then you only would have to change "swipe" name XD
• Steal: 900 range + Stolen skills.

Option3:

• Swipe: 900 range + 25 seconds of recharge time (like Deadeye's mark) + single fix stolen skill (1 sec of evade with no cast time will be fine).
• Steal: no changes.

Option4:

• No changes, the number of players that play Daredevil is reduced, 2-6 month and they'll buff Daredevil to make it playable again.

Those will be fine for me.

[derd.6413]

and another one of these