Swipe change MAINLY PvP

[Jack Redline.5379]

@Ensign.2189 said:

I have just realized you talk WvW. Okay to make it clear i will edit the title to MAINLY PVP since i dont care about wvw but about PvP.

[Ensign.2189]

I am mostly talking sPvP; DD is in better shape in WvW as that is much less steal dependent and the extra durability matters more in big fights.

sPvP has more design debt though. A lot of DD traits and skills have sPvP only splits to make them bad there. The ability to stand and fight on top of fast rotations is a bigger problem in capture points and the splits reflect it.

[TwiceDead.1963]

@"SehferViega.8725" said:People must consider that playing daredevil you have to renounce to one core spec (shadow arts, critacal strikes, acrobatics). The only reason I still play daredevil is cause I really like interrupt/Pulmonary Impact mechanic (that is garbage in this moment). In competitive modes core thieves perform really better, no way.We are talking about something that is called ELITE spec and is weaker then base spec.

Not really a downside. Every class has to renounce a core-spec. Warriors was in the situation you claim us to be in now for the longest time where Berserker was the undersireable underdog of PvP. Whether or not we follow the same fate, or we adapt (as we've always done), time will tell.

"In contrast to core specializations, which merely modify how certain skills and effects work, choosing an elite specialization fundamentally changes the way a given profession plays by altering or expanding on the base profession mechanic". This is not my thoughts, is AN description of Elite specializations (you can find it on wiki).So daredevil used to expand base profession mechanic. "Trade off" is just a joke to nerf it after 3 y.

You are deliberately ignoring the OR there. The e-specs were always supposed to at the very least alter the way you play the class. Daredevil didn't change anything, it was just a straight-up better thief for the longest time without losing anything. Daredevil was a literal Acrobatics replacement until they buffed the latter. Anet achieved their goal, making Daredevil feel different, but at a higher cost than seems reasonable. For now I can only adapt... Ugh, this is going to be painful.

[SehferViega.8725]

@TwiceDead.1963 said:

You are deliberately ignoring the OR there. Daredevil didn't change anything, it was just a straight-up better thief for the longest time without losing anything.

So who is the one that is ignoring the OR? AN has ignored it for 3 years, you are saying the same thing. Daredevil has been build with the purpose of expanding on the base profession mechanic.

Now AN wants a Daredevil spec that alter base profession mechanic? good. But that means work on daredevil, rework its traits. Nerfing Steal is another thing.

For now we all can only adapt or leave, but at least let me say they are doing a bad job.

PS: I have a war, I always played it berserker Axe/shield - GS in those 2 years: in WvW with Superior Rune of Durability it was a great build even before this patch nay it was better (now is strong only cause of new broken F1 Arc Divider and +20% damage).

[TwiceDead.1963]

@"SehferViega.8725" said:So who is the one that is ignoring the OR? AN has ignored it for 3 years, you are saying the same thing. Daredevil has been build with the purpose of expanding on the base profession mechanic.

They didn't though. They just "fixed" it. Haaa...

Now AN wants a Daredevil spec that alter base profession mechanic? good. But that means work on daredevil, rework its traits. Nerfing Steal is another thing.Naw, Steal is a part of that. In Anet's mind, the additional dodge is supposed to be the benefit, and Swipe is the obvious drawback. With that said, the change is not great.

For now we all can only adapt or leave, but at least let me say they are doing a bad job.I concur. Err, I agree.

PS: I have a war, I always played it berserker Axe/shield - GS in those 2 years: in WvW with Superior Rune of Durability it was a great build even before this patch nay it was better (now is strong only cause of new broken F1 Arc Divider and +20% damage).

Good on you man. Keep defying the meta.

[derd.6413]

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Jack Redline.5379 said:

@derd.6413 said:

not everything has to be about DPS

Okay in that case explain to me please how does Daredevil benefit from whatever improvement dodges got in your oppinion in comparison to previous state. (i would like to hear what you rly think improved dodges so much as well cuz ( °-°) )Since if you read the notes The three dodges we have remained untouched but only Steal got changed.

if you've read the patchnotes you'd know that they're adding downsides to especs that didn't previously have one in order to make them have a trade-off. DrD got the upside of improved dodges back in HoT and has only now gotten it's downside of swipe.

just like how druid always had celestial avatar and only now got worse pets for it

and how berserker got berserker form but only now lost their core F1

is reaper a downgrade?

no it's a trade-off an unfair trade-off in favor of reaper but a trade-off

[Crab Fear.1624]

@derd.6413 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Jack Redline.5379 said:

@derd.6413 said:

not everything has to be about DPS

Okay in that case explain to me please how does Daredevil benefit from whatever improvement dodges got in your oppinion in comparison to previous state. (i would like to hear what you rly think improved dodges so much as well cuz ( °-°) )Since if you read the notes The three dodges we have remained untouched but only Steal got changed.

if you've read the patchnotes you'd know that they're adding downsides to especs that didn't previously have one in order to make them have a trade-off. DrD got the upside of improved dodges back in HoT and has only now gotten it's downside of swipe.

just like how druid always had celestial avatar and only now got worse pets for it

and how berserker got berserker form but only now lost their core F1

is reaper a downgrade?

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Jack Redline.5379 said:

@derd.6413 said:

not everything has to be about DPS

Okay in that case explain to me please how does Daredevil benefit from whatever improvement dodges got in your oppinion in comparison to previous state. (i would like to hear what you rly think improved dodges so much as well cuz ( °-°) )Since if you read the notes The three dodges we have remained untouched but only Steal got changed.

if you've read the patchnotes you'd know that they're adding downsides to especs that didn't previously have one in order to make them have a trade-off. DrD got the upside of improved dodges back in HoT and has only now gotten it's downside of swipe.

just like how druid always had celestial avatar and only now got worse pets for it

and how berserker got berserker form but only now lost their core F1

is reaper a downgrade?

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Jack Redline.5379 said:

@derd.6413 said:

not everything has to be about DPS

Okay in that case explain to me please how does Daredevil benefit from whatever improvement dodges got in your oppinion in comparison to previous state. (i would like to hear what you rly think improved dodges so much as well cuz ( °-°) )Since if you read the notes The three dodges we have remained untouched but only Steal got changed.

if you've read the patchnotes you'd know that they're adding downsides to especs that didn't previously have one in order to make them have a trade-off. DrD got the upside of improved dodges back in HoT and has only now gotten it's downside of swipe.

just like how druid always had celestial avatar and only now got worse pets for it

and how berserker got berserker form but only now lost their core F1

is reaper a downgrade?

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Jack Redline.5379 said:

@derd.6413 said:

not everything has to be about DPS

Okay in that case explain to me please how does Daredevil benefit from whatever improvement dodges got in your oppinion in comparison to previous state. (i would like to hear what you rly think improved dodges so much as well cuz ( °-°) )Since if you read the notes The three dodges we have remained untouched but only Steal got changed.

if you've read the patchnotes you'd know that they're adding downsides to especs that didn't previously have one in order to make them have a trade-off. DrD got the upside of improved dodges back in HoT and has only now gotten it's downside of swipe.

just like how druid always had celestial avatar and only now got worse pets for it

and how berserker got berserker form but only now lost their core F1

is reaper a downgrade?

no it's a trade-off an unfair trade-off in favor of reaper but a trade-off

i see we get downgrade, they get tradeoff.

before you say it, i don't agree that swipe is a trade for the dodges. i 100% disagree.

this is a nerf.

why are you fine with it?

I have a hard time you min thief anymore.

[derd.6413]

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Jack Redline.5379 said:

@derd.6413 said:

not everything has to be about DPS

Okay in that case explain to me please how does Daredevil benefit from whatever improvement dodges got in your oppinion in comparison to previous state. (i would like to hear what you rly think improved dodges so much as well cuz ( °-°) )Since if you read the notes The three dodges we have remained untouched but only Steal got changed.

if you've read the patchnotes you'd know that they're adding downsides to especs that didn't previously have one in order to make them have a trade-off. DrD got the upside of improved dodges back in HoT and has only now gotten it's downside of swipe.

just like how druid always had celestial avatar and only now got worse pets for it

and how berserker got berserker form but only now lost their core F1

is reaper a downgrade?

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Jack Redline.5379 said:

@derd.6413 said:

not everything has to be about DPS

Okay in that case explain to me please how does Daredevil benefit from whatever improvement dodges got in your oppinion in comparison to previous state. (i would like to hear what you rly think improved dodges so much as well cuz ( °-°) )Since if you read the notes The three dodges we have remained untouched but only Steal got changed.

if you've read the patchnotes you'd know that they're adding downsides to especs that didn't previously have one in order to make them have a trade-off. DrD got the upside of improved dodges back in HoT and has only now gotten it's downside of swipe.

just like how druid always had celestial avatar and only now got worse pets for it

and how berserker got berserker form but only now lost their core F1

is reaper a downgrade?

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Jack Redline.5379 said:

@derd.6413 said:

not everything has to be about DPS

Okay in that case explain to me please how does Daredevil benefit from whatever improvement dodges got in your oppinion in comparison to previous state. (i would like to hear what you rly think improved dodges so much as well cuz ( °-°) )Since if you read the notes The three dodges we have remained untouched but only Steal got changed.

if you've read the patchnotes you'd know that they're adding downsides to especs that didn't previously have one in order to make them have a trade-off. DrD got the upside of improved dodges back in HoT and has only now gotten it's downside of swipe.

just like how druid always had celestial avatar and only now got worse pets for it

and how berserker got berserker form but only now lost their core F1

is reaper a downgrade?

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Jack Redline.5379 said:

@derd.6413 said:

not everything has to be about DPS

Okay in that case explain to me please how does Daredevil benefit from whatever improvement dodges got in your oppinion in comparison to previous state. (i would like to hear what you rly think improved dodges so much as well cuz ( °-°) )Since if you read the notes The three dodges we have remained untouched but only Steal got changed.

if you've read the patchnotes you'd know that they're adding downsides to especs that didn't previously have one in order to make them have a trade-off. DrD got the upside of improved dodges back in HoT and has only now gotten it's downside of swipe.

just like how druid always had celestial avatar and only now got worse pets for it

and how berserker got berserker form but only now lost their core F1

is reaper a downgrade?

no it's a trade-off an unfair trade-off in favor of reaper but a trade-off

i see we get downgrade, they get tradeoff.before you say it, i don't agree that swipe is a trade for the dodges. i 100% disagree.this is a nerf.why are you fine with it?I have a hard time you min thief anymore.

there's a difference with getting what they were trying and saying they accomplished it. the reason i keep saying that swipe is a trade-off for the dodges is because then our current issues with swipe would require a different solution then trying to make swipe equal to steal

[Crab Fear.1624]

@derd.6413 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Jack Redline.5379 said:

@derd.6413 said:

not everything has to be about DPS

Okay in that case explain to me please how does Daredevil benefit from whatever improvement dodges got in your oppinion in comparison to previous state. (i would like to hear what you rly think improved dodges so much as well cuz ( °-°) )Since if you read the notes The three dodges we have remained untouched but only Steal got changed.

if you've read the patchnotes you'd know that they're adding downsides to especs that didn't previously have one in order to make them have a trade-off. DrD got the upside of improved dodges back in HoT and has only now gotten it's downside of swipe.

just like how druid always had celestial avatar and only now got worse pets for it

and how berserker got berserker form but only now lost their core F1

is reaper a downgrade?

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Jack Redline.5379 said:

@derd.6413 said:

not everything has to be about DPS

Okay in that case explain to me please how does Daredevil benefit from whatever improvement dodges got in your oppinion in comparison to previous state. (i would like to hear what you rly think improved dodges so much as well cuz ( °-°) )Since if you read the notes The three dodges we have remained untouched but only Steal got changed.

if you've read the patchnotes you'd know that they're adding downsides to especs that didn't previously have one in order to make them have a trade-off. DrD got the upside of improved dodges back in HoT and has only now gotten it's downside of swipe.

just like how druid always had celestial avatar and only now got worse pets for it

and how berserker got berserker form but only now lost their core F1

is reaper a downgrade?

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Jack Redline.5379 said:

@derd.6413 said:

not everything has to be about DPS

Okay in that case explain to me please how does Daredevil benefit from whatever improvement dodges got in your oppinion in comparison to previous state. (i would like to hear what you rly think improved dodges so much as well cuz ( °-°) )Since if you read the notes The three dodges we have remained untouched but only Steal got changed.

if you've read the patchnotes you'd know that they're adding downsides to especs that didn't previously have one in order to make them have a trade-off. DrD got the upside of improved dodges back in HoT and has only now gotten it's downside of swipe.

just like how druid always had celestial avatar and only now got worse pets for it

and how berserker got berserker form but only now lost their core F1

is reaper a downgrade?

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Jack Redline.5379 said:

@derd.6413 said:

not everything has to be about DPS

Okay in that case explain to me please how does Daredevil benefit from whatever improvement dodges got in your oppinion in comparison to previous state. (i would like to hear what you rly think improved dodges so much as well cuz ( °-°) )Since if you read the notes The three dodges we have remained untouched but only Steal got changed.

if you've read the patchnotes you'd know that they're adding downsides to especs that didn't previously have one in order to make them have a trade-off. DrD got the upside of improved dodges back in HoT and has only now gotten it's downside of swipe.

just like how druid always had celestial avatar and only now got worse pets for it

and how berserker got berserker form but only now lost their core F1

is reaper a downgrade?

no it's a trade-off an unfair trade-off in favor of reaper but a trade-off

i see we get downgrade, they get tradeoff.before you say it, i don't agree that swipe is a trade for the dodges. i 100% disagree.this is a nerf.why are you fine with it?I have a hard time you min thief anymore.

there's a difference with getting what they were trying and saying they accomplished it. the reason i keep saying that swipe is a trade-off for the dodges is because then our current issues with swipe would require a different solution then trying to make swipe equal to steal

what would some solution be?

there is a problem with the "deal" right now.

[SehferViega.8725]

@TwiceDead.1963 said:

@"SehferViega.8725" said:So who is the one that is ignoring the OR? AN has ignored it for 3 years, you are saying the same thing. Daredevil has been build with the purpose of expanding on the base profession mechanic.

They didn't though. They just "fixed" it. Haaa...

This is not a fix, is a badly done project modification (if you look at it without malice, otherwise you can call it a nerf). No way here, just check the AN's old pronouncement on Daredevil.

By the way, till now you play daredevil in exactly the same way as before, nothing is changed in playstyle. Power D/D is basically no more viable on Daredevil, but only on core. All Daredevil build are weaker then before, some traits contrast each other (like HS and Endurance Thief), Pulmonary Impact, one of the unique Daredevil mechanic that distinguish it from core, has been nerfed losing 29% damage.They declare one thing (new e-spec trade off, elite as a different way to play a class, ecc..), but they seem confused about what to do.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

guess no 1 watched team 4 star.

[Jack Redline.5379]

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:guess no 1 watched team 4 star.

not me but i know the name wdy mean by it?

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

@Jack Redline.5379 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:guess no 1 watched team 4 star.

not me but i know the name wdy mean by it?

not with that attitude

[TwiceDead.1963]

@SehferViega.8725 said:

@TwiceDead.1963 said:

@SehferViega.8725 said:So who is the one that is ignoring the OR? AN has ignored it for 3 years, you are saying the same thing. Daredevil has been build with the purpose of expanding on the base profession mechanic.

They didn't though. They just "fixed" it. Haaa...

This is not a fix, is a badly done project modification (if you look at it without malice, otherwise you can call it a nerf). No way here, just check the AN's old pronouncement on Daredevil.

Okay that piece of irony wen't right over your head. I agree with you, that's why I put "fixed" in quotation marks, it's often used as a means to indicate irony.

[SehferViega.8725]

@"TwiceDead.1963" said:Okay that piece of irony wen't right over your head. I agree with you, that's why I put "fixed" in quotation marks, it's often used as a means to indicate irony.

I haven't even seen quotation marks, my fault! I apologize.