Newzerker is amazing.

[cryorion.9532]

@"Sobx.1758" said:You can start wondering when they do something about it instead of speculating and practicing whataboutism now. Or is it another thing -right next to using comparisons to other classes/specs- that's fine to do when it fits your side of the argument, but absolutely irrelevant when proves you wrong?

What are you even talking about? There is nothing to prove me wrong. If you can prove me wrong, then just use proper arguments and not irrelevant-to-topic sentences.

Let's sum this up:In PvP/WvW: You think Arc Divider damages are fine? And that Berserker specialization is not carried by this single skill? Funny how I jokingly said before rework patch hit, that "God please let Arc Divider be the ultimate spin2win skill"... yikes. If most people are fine with its damage, so be it.What about Berserker's mechanics to be well rounded overall and not rounded around Arc Divider? Sadly, it is just matter of time when Arc Divider will be nerfed.

In PvE: Berserker, while it has also its big trade-offs, has bursts lower than dps holo, dragonhunter, soulbeast, reaper, chrono and daredevil (and maybe even other specs, but didn't check them all).Where did you get that berserker is not supposed to be PvE dps spec? When there is rework, it is common sense to expect it to be redesigned with all game modes in mind. Are you saying that berserker is fine, even when it is worse in what it should be among the best, as it has its trade-offs (unlike those other spec)?

[stone cold.8609]

Thank you all for your input. I have a much better understanding of the potential role of the new Berserker spec.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

@Hitman.5829 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Well, let's be clear ... Arc Divider is amazing, OP in fact. Otherwise, don't get too excited.Please define OP.I fought an elementalist weaver that literally spam evade every single arc divider.So, if Arc divider is OP will that make weaver spam evades extremely OP?

Well philosophically, that which kills is likely to always be considered more OP than that which helps to run away.

[Sobx.1758]

@cryorion.9532 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:You can start wondering when they do something about it instead of speculating and practicing whataboutism now. Or is it another thing -right next to using comparisons to other classes/specs- that's fine to do when it fits your side of the argument, but absolutely irrelevant when proves you wrong?

What are you even talking about? There is nothing to prove me wrong. If you can prove me wrong, then just use proper arguments and not irrelevant-to-topic sentences.

Oh, I'm talking about 5 (nope, didn't count) other threads where anything like what you said was immediately dismissed by you/obtena/whoever else just because it worked against what you claimed. Honestly, it's the same crap every thread, but better pretend it never happened, ok.

[Obtena.7952]

@cryorion.9532 said:

@"Sobx.1758" said:You can start wondering when they do something about it instead of speculating and practicing whataboutism now. Or is it another thing -right next to using comparisons to other classes/specs- that's fine to do when it fits your side of the argument, but absolutely irrelevant when proves you wrong?

What are you even talking about? There is nothing to prove me wrong. If you can prove me wrong, then just use proper arguments and not irrelevant-to-topic sentences.

Let's sum this up:In PvP/WvW: You think Arc Divider damages are fine? And that Berserker specialization is not carried by this single skill? Funny how I jokingly said before rework patch hit, that "God please let Arc Divider be the ultimate spin2win skill"... yikes. If most people are fine with its damage, so be it.What about Berserker's mechanics to be well rounded overall and not rounded around Arc Divider? Sadly, it is just matter of time when Arc Divider will be nerfed.

In PvE: Berserker, while it has also its big trade-offs, has bursts lower than dps holo, dragonhunter, soulbeast, reaper, chrono and daredevil (and maybe even other specs, but didn't check them all).Where did you get that berserker is not supposed to be PvE dps spec? When there is rework, it is common sense to expect it to be redesigned with all game modes in mind. Are you saying that berserker is fine, even when it is worse in what it should be among the best, as it has its trade-offs (unlike those other spec)?

Notice none of your questions were answered in the response to your post ... and lots of deflecting accusations that intentionally avoid the topic. Just saying ...

I don't see the idea that it's a 'burst' spec ... 15+ seconds is sure one hell of a long 'burst' if you ask me. I'm also thinking that if it is a burst spec ... it's got some pathetic damage to burst with. It's between ... something, resulting in ... nothing.

Whatever it is, it fails as a burst because it's DPS is drawn out over too long a period of time. It also fails as a long duration DPS spec because it's DPS is countered by it's sustain-biased design outside of berserker mode. To be frank, I don't see what this spec really does in the context of the game modes we have in this game

if it's a 'burst' spec, it needs more condensed DPS in a short amount of time (i'm pretty sure it's not that anyways, otherwise Anet wouldn't have given us the ability to increase the duration of berserker mode through traits/Rage skills)

If it's an all-or-nothing DPS spec, it needs the DPS to justify the sustain-biased out-of-berserker mode performance.

Right now, it's just a flavour spec for RPers and something that allows noobs to abuse OP Arc Divider to kill groups in WvW.

[Sobx.1758]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@cryorion.9532 said:

@"Sobx.1758" said:You can start wondering when they do something about it instead of speculating and practicing whataboutism now. Or is it another thing -right next to using comparisons to other classes/specs- that's fine to do when it fits your side of the argument, but absolutely irrelevant when proves you wrong?

What are you even talking about? There is nothing to prove me wrong. If you can prove me wrong, then just use proper arguments and not irrelevant-to-topic sentences.

Let's sum this up:In PvP/WvW: You think Arc Divider damages are fine? And that Berserker specialization is not carried by this single skill? Funny how I jokingly said before rework patch hit, that "God please let Arc Divider be the ultimate spin2win skill"... yikes. If most people are fine with its damage, so be it.What about Berserker's mechanics to be well rounded overall and not rounded around Arc Divider? Sadly, it is just matter of time when Arc Divider will be nerfed.

In PvE: Berserker, while it has also its big trade-offs, has bursts lower than dps holo, dragonhunter, soulbeast, reaper, chrono and daredevil (and maybe even other specs, but didn't check them all).Where did you get that berserker is not supposed to be PvE dps spec? When there is rework, it is common sense to expect it to be redesigned with all game modes in mind. Are you saying that berserker is fine, even when it is worse in what it should be among the best, as it has its trade-offs (unlike those other spec)?

Notice none of your questions were answered in the response to your post ... and lots of deflecting accusations that intentionally avoid the topic. Just saying ...

Notice how you did exactly the same thing before and it was perfectly fine, stay classy :D

[Aeolus.3615]

Arc divider plus easy unblocable momentum xdxdxdxd easy game, just made one for rush kills xdI’m still yet to find how some can reach 18k or more on each divider hit, max I did was 10k ish. 2 hits killing weavers, eles, thief’s , some guardians can be fun to some extent but I know I’m being super carried.

[KelyNeli.4516]

@Obtena.7952 said:I don't see the idea that it's a 'burst' spec ... 15+ seconds is sure one hell of a long 'burst' if you ask me. I'm also thinking that if it is a burst spec ... it's got some pathetic damage to burst with. It's between ... something, resulting in ... nothing.

Whatever it is, it fails as a burst because it's DPS is drawn out over too long a period of time. It also fails as a long duration DPS spec because it's DPS is countered by it's sustain-biased design outside of berserker mode. To be frank, I don't see what this spec really does in the context of the game modes we have in this game

if it's a 'burst' spec, it needs more condensed DPS in a short amount of time (i'm pretty sure it's not that anyways, otherwise Anet wouldn't have given us the ability to increase the duration of berserker mode through traits/Rage skills)

If it's an all-or-nothing DPS spec, it needs the DPS to justify the sustain-biased out-of-berserker mode performance.

Berserker is doing more than fine in PVE, due to the so called power swings, you are dealing massive amount of damage whenever you have an occasion to do so.PVE, raids, fractals, world content and even dungeons are not a stationary dps check, you move a lot, you dodge or execute mechanics and do not do dmg all the time. When it comes to bosses and bigger targets my berserker is being focus by it 80% of time, it does giant amount of damage and this is a fact. Berserker is the only warrior spec that could run raids without any banners and i dont remember this happen ever before, his damage is not bad.

[Obtena.7952]

@KelyNeli.4516 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:I don't see the idea that it's a 'burst' spec ... 15+ seconds is sure one hell of a long 'burst' if you ask me. I'm also thinking that if it is a burst spec ... it's got some pathetic damage to burst with. It's between ... something, resulting in ... nothing.

Whatever it is, it fails as a burst because it's DPS is drawn out over too long a period of time. It also fails as a long duration DPS spec because it's DPS is countered by it's sustain-biased design outside of berserker mode. To be frank, I don't see what this spec really does in the context of the game modes we have in this game

if it's a 'burst' spec, it needs more condensed DPS in a short amount of time (i'm pretty sure it's not that anyways, otherwise Anet wouldn't have given us the ability to increase the duration of berserker mode through traits/Rage skills)

If it's an all-or-nothing DPS spec, it needs the DPS to justify the sustain-biased out-of-berserker mode performance.

Berserker is doing more than fine in PVE, due to the so called power swings, you are dealing massive amount of damage whenever you have an occasion to do so.PVE, raids, fractals, world content and even dungeons are not a stationary dps check, you move a lot, you dodge or execute mechanics and do not do dmg all the time. When it comes to bosses and bigger targets my berserker is being focus by it 80% of time, it does giant amount of damage and this is a fact. Berserker is the only spec that could run raids without any banners and i dont remember this happen ever before, his damage is not bad.

I don't see how berserker doing fine relates to my points. How much DPS a spec does is not indicative of whether it's fine or not. If you want to choose based on DPS, you have better options; people that are displeased with Berserker aren't primarily unhappy with the DPS.

I think I already explained this ... if I gave you a weapon with just an auto attack that did 50K DPS and that's all it did, would you think it's 'fine'? No, that would suck, it would be lazy and stupid implementation and boring AF to play. it's a fallacy that the DPS berserker does makes it 'fine'. Not a chance.

[Sobx.1758]

@Obtena.7952 said:

I don't see how berserker doing fine relates to my points. How much DPS a spec does is not indicative of whether it's fine or not. If you want to choose based on DPS, you have better options; people that are displeased with Berserker aren't primarily unhappy with the DPS.

.

@Obtena.7952 said:

I don't see the idea that it's a 'burst' spec ... 15+ seconds is sure one hell of a long 'burst' if you ask me. I'm also thinking that if it is a burst spec ... it's got some pathetic damage to burst with. It's between ... something, resulting in ... nothing.

Whatever it is, it fails as a burst because it's DPS is drawn out over too long a period of time. It also fails as a long duration DPS spec because it's DPS is countered by it's sustain-biased design outside of berserker mode. To be frank, I don't see what this spec really does in the context of the game modes we have in this game

if it's a 'burst' spec, it needs more condensed DPS in a short amount of time (i'm pretty sure it's not that anyways, otherwise Anet wouldn't have given us the ability to increase the duration of berserker mode through traits/Rage skills)

If it's an all-or-nothing DPS spec, it needs the DPS to justify the sustain-biased out-of-berserker mode performance.

Right now, it's just a flavour spec for RPers and something that allows noobs to abuse OP Arc Divider to kill groups in WvW.

Seems like KelyNeli answered to what you wrote, but you just don't remember what you wrote anymore? Maybe you're not even sure what you're comaplaining about or fail to type out your thoughts, who knows. "How much DPS it does is not indicative"? Then why would you spam about the DPS as a part of the complaint? Berserks burst dmg and DPS is easly enough as it is. It also doesn't need any "more condensed" damage, that would be just stupid. You complain that people can just 'kite out berk mode' and now you claim it should be "more condensed"? :D Not to mention it would require further nerfs of out-of-berk-mode warrior, which was your main complaint in the first place, wtkitten are you even talking about now?

[Obtena.7952]

No I have no problems. I guess you misread all the 'IF's in that post or didn't understand the context of that post .. /shrug It's OK ... it's par for the course for you.

My position still stands ... DPS is not indicative if the class is fine or not.

[Sobx.1758]

Sure, so keep spamming about the dps and how you don't see how it's a burst spec. /shrug :grin:

[KelyNeli.4516]

@"Obtena.7952" said:I don't see how berserker doing fine relates to my points. How much DPS a spec does is not indicative of whether it's fine or not. If you want to choose based on DPS, you have better options; people that are displeased with Berserker aren't primarily unhappy with the DPS.

I think I already explained this ... if I gave you a weapon with just an auto attack that did 50K DPS and that's all it did, would you think it's 'fine'? No, that would suck, it would be lazy and stupid implementation and boring AF to play. it's a fallacy that the DPS berserker does makes it 'fine'. Not a chance.

But you said berserker damage is not too good, which is untrue and false.

"I'm also thinking that if it is a burst spec ... it's got some pathetic damage to burst with. It's between ... something, resulting in ... nothing. (...)It also fails as a long duration DPS spec because it's DPS is countered by it's sustain-biased design outside of berserker mode. To be frank, I don't see what this spec really does in the context of the game modes we have in this game"

Berserker is not underperforming because he has a windows of burst damage and is relatively weak outside of it comparing to core warrior. Because of berserker mode being so loaded with free damage, you are doing more than core warrior to the point where you could be a top spec for damage in PVE.Let me explain it why it is that way.If you have character that has majority of its potential in 1/2 of the time, then if the mechanics happens or there is a downtime in which you cannot do damage, then this character will always be dealing more damage in comparison to a character that could do 100% of himself 100% of time, because whenever you will have a window to deal damage you are ready to enter it with your stronger side, and if the window closes then you are in your weaker mode, if damage window opens again you go in with your stronger mode and so on as so forth.

Berserker gains 40% more damage for 15 secs and then he loses it for another 15 secs.If it happens that there is a windows of 20 seconds to do damage then he will be at the top of damage charts.And dont say that damage is not important, because it is the most important stat in the game, it determines everything in PVE.

[Obtena.7952]

@KelyNeli.4516 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:I don't see how berserker doing fine relates to my points. How much DPS a spec does is not indicative of whether it's fine or not. If you want to choose based on DPS, you have better options; people that are displeased with Berserker aren't primarily unhappy with the DPS.

I think I already explained this ... if I gave you a weapon with just an auto attack that did 50K DPS and that's

all

it did, would you think it's 'fine'? No, that would suck, it would be lazy and stupid implementation and boring AF to play. it's a fallacy that the DPS berserker does makes it 'fine'. Not a chance.

But you said berserker damage is not too good, which is untrue and false.

Really? Can you show me?

I mean, I said it has pathetic DPS to burst with and I explained what I meant ... That's not saying berserker damage is not too good.

[Sobx.1758]

I mean, I said it has pathetic DPS to burst with

Which is also false

[cryorion.9532]

@"KelyNeli.4516" said:Berserker is not underperforming because he has a windows of burst damage and is relatively weak outside of it comparing to core warrior. Because of berserker mode being so loaded with free damage, you are doing more than core warrior to the point where you could be a top spec for damage in PVE.Let me explain it why it is that way.If you have character that has majority of its potential in 1/2 of the time, then if the mechanics happens or there is a downtime in which you cannot do damage, then this character will always be dealing more damage in comparison to a character that could do 100% of himself 100% of time, because whenever you will have a window to deal damage you are ready to enter it with your stronger side, and if the window closes then you are in your weaker mode, if damage window opens again you go in with your stronger mode and so on as so forth.

Berserker gains 40% more damage for 15 secs and then he loses it for another 15 secs.If it happens that there is a windows of 20 seconds to do damage then he will be at the top of damage charts.And dont say that damage is not important, because it is the most important stat in the game, it determines everything in PVE.

Then why is it that Berserker has worse bursts than holo, dragonhunter, soulbeast, reaper, chrono and daredevil which don't even have berserker-like trade-offs? Your "insane" damage is only in PvP/WvW from Arc Divider. Nothing more. Berserker has best burst compared to core/spellbreaker, but it is still nowhere near to be competetive with other DPSes. It barely scratches 40k opening burst compared to other specs that reach 50-60k opening bursts. Which one would you pick when you want to burst things as fast as possible?

You are missing the point of Berserker not being well-rounded, you call it "different playstyle" and when people complain about it, you tell them to play core/spellbreaker.It seems you also fail to see how berserker is still failing being good (or even among the best) at what it was reworked for, even when it has very obvious trade-offs.

[Sobx.1758]

If you think balancing is [...] justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated

Obtena should jump in here, but you're "on the same side of the argument", so lets pretend s/he didn't see what you wrote :grin:

[cryorion.9532]

@"Sobx.1758" said:If you think balancing is [...] justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated

Obtena should jump in here, but you're "on the same side of the argument", so lets pretend s/he didn't see what you wrote :grin:

There is reason why other classes/specs work better.

[Sobx.1758]

@cryorion.9532 said:

@"Sobx.1758" said:If you think balancing is [...] justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated

Obtena should jump in here, but you're "on the same side of the argument", so lets pretend s/he didn't see what you wrote :grin:

There is reason why other classes/specs work better.

Yes, if something is better or worse, there's usually "a reason" for that, seems logical, so I totally agree. On the other hand that changed nothing of what I said in the post you replied to. Which aren't even my words btw, feel free to go on a crusade against obtena's signature now.

[Obtena.7952]

@cryorion.9532 said:

@"KelyNeli.4516" said:Berserker is not underperforming because he has a windows of burst damage and is relatively weak outside of it comparing to core warrior. Because of berserker mode being so loaded with free damage, you are doing more than core warrior to the point where you could be a top spec for damage in PVE.Let me explain it why it is that way.If you have character that has majority of its potential in 1/2 of the time, then if the mechanics happens or there is a downtime in which you cannot do damage, then this character will always be dealing more damage in comparison to a character that could do 100% of himself 100% of time, because whenever you will have a window to deal damage you are ready to enter it with your stronger side, and if the window closes then you are in your weaker mode, if damage window opens again you go in with your stronger mode and so on as so forth.

Berserker gains 40% more damage for 15 secs and then he loses it for another 15 secs.If it happens that there is a windows of 20 seconds to do damage then he will be at the top of damage charts.And dont say that damage is not important, because it is the most important stat in the game, it determines everything in PVE.

Then why is it that Berserker has worse bursts than holo, dragonhunter, soulbeast, reaper, chrono and daredevil which don't even have berserker-like trade-offs? Your "insane" damage is only in PvP/WvW from Arc Divider. Nothing more. Berserker has best burst compared to core/spellbreaker, but it is still nowhere near to be competetive with other DPSes. It barely scratches 40k opening burst compared to other specs that reach 50-60k opening bursts. Which one would you pick when you want to burst things as fast as possible?

You are missing the point of Berserker not being well-rounded, you call it "different playstyle" and when people complain about it, you tell them to play core/spellbreaker.It seems you also fail to see how berserker is still failing being good (or even among the best) at what it was reworked for, even when it has very obvious trade-offs.

I think more accurately ... what berserker does is simply not what most reasonable players call a burst, so any argument that appeals to the idea that Berserker is a 'burst' spec so it's OK as it currently works is nonsense to begin with. I mean, a 15 second 'burst' is absurd ... anyone that argues against that is just being obtuse.

What's important here as the response to the poster is that DPS doesn't matter if it sacrifices good design and game play options to get it. Put it this way ... the DPS boost with Berserker V2 isn't ground breaking to begin with, so it's not hard to think we will need to GIVE UP DPS to get better function across the whole spec. Arc Divider is already a good example of what needs to be changed and we know what kind of state Berserker would be if it got nerfed anyways.

LIttle anyone can say against the idea Berserker is being hardcarried by Arc Divider. We know it to be true. One broken skill doesn't make berserker 'fine' because of it's DPS.

[Sobx.1758]

Imagine thinking berserker spec doesn't have burst and calling yourself a reasonable player :+1:

[BlackTruth.6813]

^LOL IMAGINE saying baseline fast hands is catastrophic, but the current Berserker rework and current design is "fine" and isn't potentially catastrophic based on how ANET's been doing things.

Logical consistency at it's finest.

TL;DR don't take fail hypocrites seriously.

[Aeolus.3615]

@Sobx.1758 said:Imagine thinking berserker spec doesn't have burst and calling yourself a reasonable player :+1:

Well that’s the game doing what is ment to do.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Is berserker good or is arc divider good?

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Is berserker good or is arc divider good?

Berserk Mode is good. Arc Divider wipes enemies, but Berserk Mode makes all of your attacks hit hard. I can down someone with a Volley or WWA while in Berserk Mode. That being said once Berserk Mode ends you need a backup plan.