Jump to content
  • Sign Up

Looking at thieves..I realize the scope of nerf threads...


Recommended Posts

  • Replies 59
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:Basically the nerf threads about a specific profession will stop when it will be no more deemed a threat by the average playerbase ( average skill level) of every other class , to mention that at this stage even being considered an annoyance is enough to warrant a long list of nerf threads.

Prior to GW2 launch during August 2012 , all the GW fanbase could be found on the fan site
GW Guru
if I am not wrong, it was quite good, one feature that I particulary enjoyed was the
insta temporary ban of whoever started a nerf thread just for the sake of complaining
, something the GW2 forum desperately needs given the current climate as the GW2 forum has devolved in just another typical MMO forum.

Dear GW2 players...I have a simple question : if you ask to nerf that aspect of that profession, the very aspect that makes that profession a threat to the one you're playing...how exactly the nerfed profession will be able to compete against your profession afterward?

Few examples here :-People ask to nerf pet damage , longbow damage , reduce multipliers , reduce boon application...then what the ranger supposed to do? how it can survive and kill your class?-People ask to nerf sword evades of weaver...now we have a low HP class at melee range with no other form of protection against aoe/range pressure other than some 2-3k healing-People ask to nerf blocks on guardian...how is the class supposed to survive pressure given its low HP?-People ask to nerf warrior sustain...how the class supposed to be played at melee range when its sustain is already mediocre in mediocre hands?

Looking at thieves..I realize the scope of nerf threads......
there is no scope other than knocking a profession out of viability

Pettiness.....Hypocrisy.....Short sighted are the only words that come to mind whenever I read the GW2 pvp forum, it's truly a shame that the majority of players can't see anything outside the boundaries of their own ego

The ONLY thing I want gone on thief, is being able to spike while invisible. Just like I want the engineers mini-form to be gone from their traits because having two rounds of that skill; Is ludicrous and I don't know why they are one of the only classes to have something like this? I think its kitten, and alot of other class's can't get out like that when kitten goes bad.

Make it so when a thief goes to spike they are visible, they can't teleport spike and they can't continuously knock you up into the air anymore. Mainly because I think it's kind of lame that they are able to run around with perma-invisibility. Either its a build or the ones doing it are hacking; Im not sure I don't play thief but nothing annoys me more than someone on my team getting downed, and a thief going invis and no matter how much I do to reveal them it seems like they wont pop out of stealth.

Inform yourself before posting, Engineers do not have two Elixirs S.

Also please explain how is Thief continuously knocking anyone up in the Air and with what skills they do that continuous stuff.Second also, Mesmers spike from stealth for much higher dmg with much lower cooldown, if you gonna suggest such profession-breaking changes to Thief (eg: can't teleport spike), all while saying you don't play thief.., then don't leave out better, more powerful versions of it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Solori.6025 said:

I am not against nerfs..those are necessary to keep the game alive, I am against nerfs that remove a playstyle/spec from viability. In the end of the days we're still talking a ranger: a class supposed to be a ranged threat and we cannot remove that otherwise the class becomes useless

That's become the legacy of the Spvp forums.I realized this stupid trend a couple of years ago.I cant however put the blame entirely on the community though ( as much as I want to anyway) because at the end of the day Anet is the gatekeeper with the keys.They control how well the ship sails and they have done a very poor job at it.The philosophy they have of nerf to the ground now, buff later needs to go. They need a new team of people that would be willing to actually sit down and play the class they are thinking of adjusting. They need learn to admit mistakes, and they need to stop listening to the outrageous Spvp forums. Barely anything good comes from here.They have so much to fix now that could have been avoided had they simply sat down and thought about what they are adding or changing. Or played the changes.We have trait lines/traits that are unusable. Skills that classes can't live without. Builds and playstyle removed because Anet can't seem to think beyond the scope of a week. There is no vision for longevity for half the things they change. Then to top it all off to do these game altering changes takes them 3 to 4 months and they may or may not fix the issue at ALL. They could make it worse or they could further pigeon hole the class into a playstyle/build Not everyone enjoys.Take that as a rant if you want but Anet needs to do better. Nothing will get fixed until then.

Best post I've read in a while. Well said.

I hope the coming months show an improvement in the frequency, care/sensitivity/delicacy and attention to detail in the balance changes for maximising player choice and the long term health/enjoyment of the game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Curunen.8729 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:

I am not against nerfs..those are necessary to keep the game alive, I am against nerfs that remove a playstyle/spec from viability. In the end of the days we're still talking a ranger: a class supposed to be a ranged threat and we cannot remove that otherwise the class becomes useless

That's become the legacy of the Spvp forums.I realized this stupid trend a couple of years ago.I cant however put the blame entirely on the community though ( as much as I want to anyway) because at the end of the day Anet is the gatekeeper with the keys.They control how well the ship sails and they have done a very poor job at it.The philosophy they have of nerf to the ground now, buff later needs to go. They need a new team of people that would be willing to actually sit down and play the class they are thinking of adjusting. They need learn to admit mistakes, and they need to stop listening to the outrageous Spvp forums. Barely anything good comes from here.They have so much to fix now that could have been avoided had they simply sat down and thought about what they are adding or changing. Or played the changes.We have trait lines/traits that are unusable. Skills that classes can't live without. Builds and playstyle removed because Anet can't seem to think beyond the scope of a week. There is no vision for longevity for half the things they change. Then to top it all off to do these game altering changes takes them 3 to 4 months and they may or may not fix the issue at ALL. They could make it worse or they could further pigeon hole the class into a playstyle/build Not everyone enjoys.Take that as a rant if you want but Anet needs to do better. Nothing will get fixed until then.

Best post I've read in a while. Well said.

I hope the coming months show an improvement in the frequency, care/sensitivity/delicacy and attention to detail in the balance changes for maximising player choice and the long term health/enjoyment of the game.

It's more than likely just a marketing technique. They are probably making sure that certain things are stronger than others at certain times, for the purpose of "giving us something new to do" so the game doesn't get boring, because we are always having to switch and play different things. If a perfect balance had been achieved in year 1 and things had never changed, would any of us still be having fun if we had played the same meta for 7 years with no changes and no new learning process to accompany those changes?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:

I am not against nerfs..those are necessary to keep the game alive, I am against nerfs that remove a playstyle/spec from viability. In the end of the days we're still talking a ranger: a class supposed to be a ranged threat and we cannot remove that otherwise the class becomes useless

That's become the legacy of the Spvp forums.I realized this stupid trend a couple of years ago.I cant however put the blame entirely on the community though ( as much as I want to anyway) because at the end of the day Anet is the gatekeeper with the keys.They control how well the ship sails and they have done a very poor job at it.The philosophy they have of nerf to the ground now, buff later needs to go. They need a new team of people that would be willing to actually sit down and play the class they are thinking of adjusting. They need learn to admit mistakes, and they need to stop listening to the outrageous Spvp forums. Barely anything good comes from here.They have so much to fix now that could have been avoided had they simply sat down and thought about what they are adding or changing. Or played the changes.We have trait lines/traits that are unusable. Skills that classes can't live without. Builds and playstyle removed because Anet can't seem to think beyond the scope of a week. There is no vision for longevity for half the things they change. Then to top it all off to do these game altering changes takes them 3 to 4 months and they may or may not fix the issue at ALL. They could make it worse or they could further pigeon hole the class into a playstyle/build Not everyone enjoys.Take that as a rant if you want but Anet needs to do better. Nothing will get fixed until then.

Best post I've read in a while. Well said.

I hope the coming months show an improvement in the frequency, care/sensitivity/delicacy and attention to detail in the balance changes for maximising player choice and the long term health/enjoyment of the game.

It's more than likely just a marketing technique. They are probably making sure that certain things are stronger than others at certain times, for the purpose of "giving us something new to do" so the game doesn't get boring, because we are always having to switch and play different things. If a perfect balance had been achieved in year 1 and things had never changed, would any of us still be having fun if we had played the same meta for 7 years with no changes and no new learning process to accompany those changes?

If it meant that all 9 classes had viable ways to play and counterplay to each.Yes.If that perfect balance had stayed intact with the addition of elite specs. Then 100x yes.I think retention would have been a lot better.What we have now is 3 or 4 classes that rule the meta for 3-6 months. Then a balance patch comes and removes the class or classes from being competitive at all.Playstyles are removed at the direction of the loudest cryer. Trait lines are destroyed and left for dead.If perfect balance meant that all classes could compete then I would rather that then having builds, classes, and playstyles removed at a whim.

People invest time into classes they love. Just for Anet to come through and beat it with a hammer. Marketing or not, it sucks investing into a class just for the devs that should also care about the state of all classes nerf it to oblivion and forget about it. Like what is the point of trying to support a team of people if they don't even take pride ( or responsibility) in the state of the game they designed?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:If a perfect balance had been achieved in year 1 and things had never changed, would any of us still be having fun if we had played the same meta for 7 years with no changes and no new learning process to accompany those changes?

See but, part of that theoretical does not imply the other. If the balance was perfected (or close to perfected year one), the meta itself would remain autonomous. people would play things, then people would find counters to those things and etc without heavy dev intervention. The meta wouldnt stagnate if every class had a way to be strong/weak vs every other class, instead of the current situation where one or two classes counter everything else until theyre hit on the head by the nerf bat.

Tekken, Street Fighter, Smash Bros, even LoL have been able to keep their respective metas healthy for years, even a decade + in some cases because they took a look at some characters and made sure that the roster had characters that could stand up to other characters, but were weak to still other characters.

And nobody is saying new moves or specializations couldn't be included in this meta development. Just that, for each class you release into the game, it needs to be able to do something good and struggle at something else.

Or maybe players in general just havent been labbing enough and those counters actually exist, but people are too hung up on the meta to actually go dig them out?I dont know at this point.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:Everyone screams OP at everything, but never seem to notice that the game is clearly designed around a rock/paper/scissor effect.

Stop it.

Necros are supposed to die RangersRangers are supposed to die to WarriorsWarriors get kitten on by RevenantsAnd Revenants get chewed by Necrosect ect ect

We know when something is truly over powered, when it counters too many things and doesn't have enough counters against it. If that isn't happening but players are still complaining, it almost certainly means that the complaints are coming from a place of biased whining and lack of ability to identify & accept the rock/paper/scissors effect.

Reference?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Inoki.6048 said:Except e.g. in the case of Soulbeasts - playing one myself - I realise how out of proportions that class is. What it can do requires no special mastery other than: press elite (even that is not necessary in most cases), activate Sic'Em and press 2 = target is dead, whatever that is, in most instances, unless it procs some auto-invul or Signet of Stone. Auto attacks hit for an average of 5 - 7k against most classes, which equals to an average of 3 - 4 hits before someone dies at very long range. Classes like Necros don't stand even the slightest of chances. Only very high mobility classes may outplay me, and even that only if I choose to engage in closer combat, as due to super high range I pick my fights. I could play it safe all day by only engaging from walls, cliffs, or any other ground that keeps me away from harm. It's like being on a picnic.

But I agree with you that most of the time people just come to vent after playing miserably against XYZ and their posts blatantly lack a grain of insight.

Above all, there needs to be a PTS and extensive testing done before acceptable values are discovered. Atm. there's so much power creep it's a mess. Before you blame the community, look to the company, who took a stance to ignore real issues and focus on generating revenue by adding, not correctly adjusting content. Again we'll have a new mount.......... like, what for? Soon we'll have more mounts that there are available key binds on a gaming mouse. And with new skills more passives, more interactions the servers won't be able to handle, and it will be a cluster fok that will introduce more skill lag in WvW and so on.

I am not against nerfs..those are necessary to keep the game alive, I am against nerfs that remove a playstyle/spec from viability. In the end of the days we're still talking a ranger: a class supposed to be a ranged threat and we cannot remove that otherwise the class becomes useless

While I agree with you in sentiment, playstyles are not holy. Certain playstyles are just not fun for conquest PvP, for example I would say clone death mesmer, phantasm mesmer, spirit ranger, turret engi, some others.

And ranger doesn't become useless if its long-range threat is nerfed. On the contrary, when ranger has been meta in PvP it has generally been as an on-point fighter.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Alatar.7364 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:Basically the nerf threads about a specific profession will stop when it will be no more deemed a threat by the average playerbase ( average skill level) of every other class , to mention that at this stage even being considered an annoyance is enough to warrant a long list of nerf threads.

Prior to GW2 launch during August 2012 , all the GW fanbase could be found on the fan site
GW Guru
if I am not wrong, it was quite good, one feature that I particulary enjoyed was the
insta temporary ban of whoever started a nerf thread just for the sake of complaining
, something the GW2 forum desperately needs given the current climate as the GW2 forum has devolved in just another typical MMO forum.

Dear GW2 players...I have a simple question : if you ask to nerf that aspect of that profession, the very aspect that makes that profession a threat to the one you're playing...how exactly the nerfed profession will be able to compete against your profession afterward?

Few examples here :-People ask to nerf pet damage , longbow damage , reduce multipliers , reduce boon application...then what the ranger supposed to do? how it can survive and kill your class?-People ask to nerf sword evades of weaver...now we have a low HP class at melee range with no other form of protection against aoe/range pressure other than some 2-3k healing-People ask to nerf blocks on guardian...how is the class supposed to survive pressure given its low HP?-People ask to nerf warrior sustain...how the class supposed to be played at melee range when its sustain is already mediocre in mediocre hands?

Looking at thieves..I realize the scope of nerf threads......
there is no scope other than knocking a profession out of viability

Pettiness.....Hypocrisy.....Short sighted are the only words that come to mind whenever I read the GW2 pvp forum, it's truly a shame that the majority of players can't see anything outside the boundaries of their own ego

The ONLY thing I want gone on thief, is being able to spike while invisible. Just like I want the engineers mini-form to be gone from their traits because having two rounds of that skill; Is ludicrous and I don't know why they are one of the only classes to have something like this? I think its kitten, and alot of other class's can't get out like that when kitten goes bad.

Make it so when a thief goes to spike they are visible, they can't teleport spike and they can't continuously knock you up into the air anymore. Mainly because I think it's kind of lame that they are able to run around with perma-invisibility. Either its a build or the ones doing it are hacking; Im not sure I don't play thief but nothing annoys me more than someone on my team getting downed, and a thief going invis and no matter how much I do to reveal them it seems like they wont pop out of stealth.

Inform yourself before posting, Engineers do not have two Elixirs S.

Also please explain how is Thief continuously knocking
anyone
up in the Air and with what skills they do that continuous stuff.Second also, Mesmers spike from stealth for much higher dmg with much lower cooldown, if you gonna suggest such profession-breaking changes to Thief
(eg: can't teleport spike)
, all while saying you don't play thief.., then don't leave out better, more powerful versions of it.

Piss off, it happens all the time. A thief comes to spike and then suddenly for some reason the person they are spiking is being knocked in the air continueously; I straight said that it might be a hack. We all know many people hack in pvp and WvW the speed hack as well others have been exposed and nothing is being done about it. I never said it was directly linked to the class; It could be an over-arcing problem. Secondly Engineer has two Elixer S, one on trait when hitting the threshold and the other is one they actively can use.

I've seen engineers go from small to normal back to small; They can spike while in this form which is bullshit as well as thieves spiking from stealth. Deal with it, it's abuse just like invulnerability as a whole is a bullshit thing to begin with in this game. Either make it so no one has it; Or everyone does so we can all enjoy the defensive's and such Im not for anyone having some hanky crap they can pull. thieves also can disengage a target go stealth and reset the fight if it doesn't go their way; Which is bull either commit or don't. As someone who played assasin in guild wars 1, thief is a pathetic variant to try and keep that type of gameplay relevant in this game without giving them the tools. Im sorry if you stand up for this sort of crap then you're part of the problem; The class has issues and honestly needs to be addressed im all for giving you more tools to stay in a fight. To be able to commit but to escape or kill someone from stealth, with no draw-back on your end is bullshit.

Stealth/Invulnerability is abused in this game; And it needs to be fixed. Perma-stealth should not be a thing, and this almost near perma-invulnerability spam needs to stop. It AGAIN might be hacks but to sit here and say it doesn't happen proves you're ignorant and don't know what the hell you're talking about. My guild and I see it all the time in WvW and I've seen it time and again in pvp. It will be addressed and thank god its happening now because its stupid; You should have to commit and play the game like everyone else.

Side-note I don't agree with ANYONE having these tools, I think it shouldn't be a thing PERIOD. I think that the game would benefit if it were changed and it would force smarter; More intuitive plays on the part of the people who abuse it. Or they would quit, either way it would be a good thing as again I never meant to make it come off as me just attacking theieves. Messmers need it removed too, I don't agree with them killing or spiking in stealth either but then I agree with an even playing field for EVERYONE. Not just me, or my guild or my friends but everyone and I want this game to come down to skill and time played on the class not bullshit abuse of mechanics from a dated age when guild wars 2 was trying to be a moba and not an mmo-rpg.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Thornwolf.9721 said:kitten off, it happens all the time. A thief comes to spike and then suddenly for some reason the person they are spiking is being knocked in the air continueously; I straight said that it might be a hack

It can't, Hacks in Gw can be only speed/movement related. Also I have played PvP for years and I have never during that time seen happen what you describe. I am pretty sure you are confusing Impact Strike which is an Elite and it knocks-up only once with a CD of 40 seconds in its dmg is hardly anywhere near "spike dmg".

@Thornwolf.9721 said:Secondly Engineer has two Elixer S, one on trait when hitting the threshold and the other is one they actively can use.

No they don't. What is the last time you played Engineer... or PvP?

@Thornwolf.9721 said:I've seen engineers go from small to normal back to small; They can spike while in this form which is kitten as well as thieves spiking from stealth.

No they can't and never could, the hell? Are you even playing this game?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:Everyone screams OP at everything, but never seem to notice that the game is clearly designed around a rock/paper/scissor effect.

Stop it.

Necros are supposed to die Rangerspower core and reaper if they position them self and use their shroud skill 2 smartly they ll have an equal 1v1 based on skillcondi scourge will die to ranger every single time unless the range enter the radius of condi vomit then he might loseRangers are supposed to die to Warriorsranger will eat berserker every timeSB will have an equal 1v1 with the ranger based on SB skill to decrease the distance and ranger to maintaining the distance

Warriors get kitten on by Revenantsi dont know what do you mean by that !!And Revenants get chewed by Necrosrev lose to heavy corrupt condi necro that mean scourge mainly and even heavy corrupt power necro dont do much threat to the revect ect ect

We know when something is truly over powered, when it counters too many things and doesn't have enough counters against it. If that isn't happening but players are still complaining, it almost certainly means that the complaints are coming from a place of biased whining and lack of ability to identify & accept the rock/paper/scissors effect.

and may i remind you that our GW2 PvP is not 1v1 and it SPvP so scourge will never die to a ranger if he have a FB with himpower creep and unhealthy skills need a nerf to help the game moderampagedagger stormsand shad mechanicelixir Ushake it offSic Emect ect ect

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:Basically the nerf threads about a specific profession will stop when it will be no more deemed a threat by the average playerbase ( average skill level) of every other class , to mention that at this stage even being considered an annoyance is enough to warrant a long list of nerf threads.

Prior to GW2 launch during August 2012 , all the GW fanbase could be found on the fan site
GW Guru
if I am not wrong, it was quite good, one feature that I particulary enjoyed was the
insta temporary ban of whoever started a nerf thread just for the sake of complaining
, something the GW2 forum desperately needs given the current climate as the GW2 forum has devolved in just another typical MMO forum.

Dear GW2 players...I have a simple question : if you ask to nerf that aspect of that profession, the very aspect that makes that profession a threat to the one you're playing...how exactly the nerfed profession will be able to compete against your profession afterward?

Few examples here :-People ask to nerf pet damage , longbow damage , reduce multipliers , reduce boon application...then what the ranger supposed to do? how it can survive and kill your class?-People ask to nerf sword evades of weaver...now we have a low HP class at melee range with no other form of protection against aoe/range pressure other than some 2-3k healing-People ask to nerf blocks on guardian...how is the class supposed to survive pressure given its low HP?-People ask to nerf warrior sustain...how the class supposed to be played at melee range when its sustain is already mediocre in mediocre hands?

Looking at thieves..I realize the scope of nerf threads......
there is no scope other than knocking a profession out of viability

Pettiness.....Hypocrisy.....Short sighted are the only words that come to mind whenever I read the GW2 pvp forum, it's truly a shame that the majority of players can't see anything outside the boundaries of their own ego

The ONLY thing I want gone on thief, is being able to spike while invisible. Just like I want the engineers mini-form to be gone from their traits because having two rounds of that skill; Is ludicrous and I don't know why they are one of the only classes to have something like this? I think its kitten, and alot of other class's can't get out like that when kitten goes bad.

Make it so when a thief goes to spike they are visible, they can't teleport spike and they can't continuously knock you up into the air anymore. Mainly because I think it's kind of lame that they are able to run around with perma-invisibility. Either its a build or the ones doing it are hacking; Im not sure I don't play thief but nothing annoys me more than someone on my team getting downed, and a thief going invis and no matter how much I do to reveal them it seems like they wont pop out of stealth.

Inform yourself before posting, Engineers do not have two Elixirs S.

Also please explain how is Thief continuously knocking
anyone
up in the Air and with what skills they do that continuous stuff.Second also, Mesmers spike from stealth for much higher dmg with much lower cooldown, if you gonna suggest such profession-breaking changes to Thief
(eg: can't teleport spike)
, all while saying you don't play thief.., then don't leave out better, more powerful versions of it.

kitten off, it happens all the time. A thief comes to spike and then suddenly for some reason the person they are spiking is being knocked in the air continueously; I straight said that it might be a hack. We all know many people hack in pvp and WvW the speed hack as well others have been exposed and nothing is being done about it. I never said it was directly linked to the class; It could be an over-arcing problem. Secondly Engineer has two Elixer S, one on trait when hitting the threshold and the other is one they actively can use.

I've seen engineers go from small to normal back to small; They can spike while in this form which is kitten as well as thieves spiking from stealth. Deal with it, it's abuse just like invulnerability as a whole is a kitten thing to begin with in this game. Either make it so no one has it; Or everyone does so we can all enjoy the defensive's and such Im not for anyone having some hanky kitten they can pull. thieves also can disengage a target go stealth and reset the fight if it doesn't go their way; Which is bull either commit or don't. As someone who played assasin in guild wars 1, thief is a pathetic variant to try and keep that type of gameplay relevant in this game without giving them the tools. Im sorry if you stand up for this sort of kitten then you're part of the problem; The class has issues and honestly needs to be addressed im all for giving you more tools to stay in a fight. To be able to commit but to escape or kill someone from stealth, with no draw-back on your end is kitten.

Stealth/Invulnerability is abused in this game; And it needs to be fixed. Perma-stealth should not be a thing, and this almost near perma-invulnerability spam needs to stop. It AGAIN might be hacks but to sit here and say it doesn't happen proves you're ignorant and don't know what the hell you're talking about. My guild and I see it all the time in WvW and I've seen it time and again in pvp. It will be addressed and thank god its happening now because its stupid; You should have to commit and play the game like everyone else.

Side-note I don't agree with ANYONE having these tools, I think it shouldn't be a thing PERIOD. I think that the game would benefit if it were changed and it would force smarter; More intuitive plays on the part of the people who abuse it. Or they would quit, either way it would be a good thing as again I never meant to make it come off as me just attacking theieves. Messmers need it removed too, I don't agree with them killing or spiking in stealth either but then I agree with an even playing field for EVERYONE. Not just me, or my guild or my friends but everyone and I want this game to come down to skill and time played on the class not kitten abuse of mechanics from a dated age when guild wars 2 was trying to be a moba and not an mmo-rpg.

People like you are the main issue of this game. People that know nothing about pvp and balance and still voice their useless stupidity.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Alatar.7364 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:kitten off, it happens all the time. A thief comes to spike and then suddenly for some reason the person they are spiking is being knocked in the air continueously; I straight said that it might be a hack

It can't, Hacks in Gw can be only speed/movement related. Also I have played PvP for years and I have never during that time seen happen what you describe. I am pretty sure you are confusing
Impact Strike
which is an Elite and it knocks-up only once with a CD of 40 seconds in its dmg is
hardly
anywhere near "spike dmg".

@Thornwolf.9721 said:Secondly Engineer has two Elixer S, one on trait when hitting the threshold and the other is one they actively can use.

No they don't. What is the last time you played Engineer... or PvP?

@Thornwolf.9721 said:I've seen engineers go from small to normal back to small; They can spike while in this form which is kitten as well as thieves spiking from stealth.

No they can't and never could, the hell? Are you even playing this game?

So clearly I didn't explain enough, Im not talking spike damage. Im talking a Skill in which it constantly CC's you into what I could only describe as bouncing in the air while you are being spiked within down state. Im not sure what is causing or doing it but it is only and I mean only something I face when fighting or dealing with a Daredevil explicitly; I've never had it done or mimicked to me by any other class. And no there are other hacks out there for guild wars, there is a life hack which prevents you from dying we fought a messmer last night who was running it.

And yes Engineers can and have I have seen it first hand where they come out of mini-state; And then not even ten seconds afterwards go right back into it. It is either a trait or they are bypassing the global cooldown. Either way it happens I've seen it happen and have had it done to me, You're completely ignoring everything because your previous thief got nerfed. Are YOU even playing this game? Like are you really? These issues are things people have brought up time and again, I don't know why you are surprised or acting like you know more than anyone else.

Clearly you and I have different experiences, that and you're reading comprehension of what I am writing is lacking fundamentally at a basic level of what could be considered acceptable for conversing. I think it's time we parted ways and agree to disagree and call it what it is; Saves us both the trouble.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Kolly.9872 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:Basically the nerf threads about a specific profession will stop when it will be no more deemed a threat by the average playerbase ( average skill level) of every other class , to mention that at this stage even being considered an annoyance is enough to warrant a long list of nerf threads.

Prior to GW2 launch during August 2012 , all the GW fanbase could be found on the fan site
GW Guru
if I am not wrong, it was quite good, one feature that I particulary enjoyed was the
insta temporary ban of whoever started a nerf thread just for the sake of complaining
, something the GW2 forum desperately needs given the current climate as the GW2 forum has devolved in just another typical MMO forum.

Dear GW2 players...I have a simple question : if you ask to nerf that aspect of that profession, the very aspect that makes that profession a threat to the one you're playing...how exactly the nerfed profession will be able to compete against your profession afterward?

Few examples here :-People ask to nerf pet damage , longbow damage , reduce multipliers , reduce boon application...then what the ranger supposed to do? how it can survive and kill your class?-People ask to nerf sword evades of weaver...now we have a low HP class at melee range with no other form of protection against aoe/range pressure other than some 2-3k healing-People ask to nerf blocks on guardian...how is the class supposed to survive pressure given its low HP?-People ask to nerf warrior sustain...how the class supposed to be played at melee range when its sustain is already mediocre in mediocre hands?

Looking at thieves..I realize the scope of nerf threads......
there is no scope other than knocking a profession out of viability

Pettiness.....Hypocrisy.....Short sighted are the only words that come to mind whenever I read the GW2 pvp forum, it's truly a shame that the majority of players can't see anything outside the boundaries of their own ego

The ONLY thing I want gone on thief, is being able to spike while invisible. Just like I want the engineers mini-form to be gone from their traits because having two rounds of that skill; Is ludicrous and I don't know why they are one of the only classes to have something like this? I think its kitten, and alot of other class's can't get out like that when kitten goes bad.

Make it so when a thief goes to spike they are visible, they can't teleport spike and they can't continuously knock you up into the air anymore. Mainly because I think it's kind of lame that they are able to run around with perma-invisibility. Either its a build or the ones doing it are hacking; Im not sure I don't play thief but nothing annoys me more than someone on my team getting downed, and a thief going invis and no matter how much I do to reveal them it seems like they wont pop out of stealth.

Inform yourself before posting, Engineers do not have two Elixirs S.

Also please explain how is Thief continuously knocking
anyone
up in the Air and with what skills they do that continuous stuff.Second also, Mesmers spike from stealth for much higher dmg with much lower cooldown, if you gonna suggest such profession-breaking changes to Thief
(eg: can't teleport spike)
, all while saying you don't play thief.., then don't leave out better, more powerful versions of it.

kitten off, it happens all the time. A thief comes to spike and then suddenly for some reason the person they are spiking is being knocked in the air continueously; I straight said that it might be a hack. We all know many people hack in pvp and WvW the speed hack as well others have been exposed and nothing is being done about it. I never said it was directly linked to the class; It could be an over-arcing problem. Secondly Engineer has two Elixer S, one on trait when hitting the threshold and the other is one they actively can use.

I've seen engineers go from small to normal back to small; They can spike while in this form which is kitten as well as thieves spiking from stealth. Deal with it, it's abuse just like invulnerability as a whole is a kitten thing to begin with in this game. Either make it so no one has it; Or everyone does so we can all enjoy the defensive's and such Im not for anyone having some hanky kitten they can pull. thieves also can disengage a target go stealth and reset the fight if it doesn't go their way; Which is bull either commit or don't. As someone who played assasin in guild wars 1, thief is a pathetic variant to try and keep that type of gameplay relevant in this game without giving them the tools. Im sorry if you stand up for this sort of kitten then you're part of the problem; The class has issues and honestly needs to be addressed im all for giving you more tools to stay in a fight. To be able to commit but to escape or kill someone from stealth, with no draw-back on your end is kitten.

Stealth/Invulnerability is abused in this game; And it needs to be fixed. Perma-stealth should not be a thing, and this almost near perma-invulnerability spam needs to stop. It AGAIN might be hacks but to sit here and say it doesn't happen proves you're ignorant and don't know what the hell you're talking about. My guild and I see it all the time in WvW and I've seen it time and again in pvp. It will be addressed and thank god its happening now because its stupid; You should have to commit and play the game like everyone else.

Side-note I don't agree with ANYONE having these tools, I think it shouldn't be a thing PERIOD. I think that the game would benefit if it were changed and it would force smarter; More intuitive plays on the part of the people who abuse it. Or they would quit, either way it would be a good thing as again I never meant to make it come off as me just attacking theieves. Messmers need it removed too, I don't agree with them killing or spiking in stealth either but then I agree with an even playing field for EVERYONE. Not just me, or my guild or my friends but everyone and I want this game to come down to skill and time played on the class not kitten abuse of mechanics from a dated age when guild wars 2 was trying to be a moba and not an mmo-rpg.

People like you are the main issue of this game. People that know nothing about pvp and balance and still voice their useless stupidity.

Mindless please, your drivel is no different than mine. You base it on your own personal expierences and skill level when the game is centered around casual play and casuals as a whole. I have no issue dealing with thieves or messmers; Sometimes I kill them and sometimes they kill me. I just disagree with the abuse of bullshit mechanics which is used to puss out of an ecounter that went poorly.

Or Finish a fight without either A giving the person a chance to use their last stand (As pointless as it is, I mean it really is.) All I meant was you shouldn't be able to abuse Elixer S or invisability during a spike. You shouldn't be able to spike when in that state or spike when invulnerable; And that invulnerability is a cop out as a whole and shouldn't even be a thing. Again I have no issue fighting people with it because really it just means get away and knock them back when they are invulnerable, it's not hard really its not. But when someone downs you and then either teleport smash's you in your downed state or finishes you when they are invisible it feels cheap; I at least want to be able to see the one finishing me off and not just randomly die.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Thornwolf.9721" said:

kitten off, it happens all the time. A thief comes to spike and then suddenly for some reason the person they are spiking is being knocked in the air continueously; I straight said that it might be a hack.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Impact_Strikehttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Uppercut_(Daredevil_skill)https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Finishing_Blow

Onto the thread:This thread alone is a proof of OP's observation. We have replies advocating to nerf/eliminate shadowstep, teleport, stealth "defense", stealth attack (only for thief tho), stealth stomp, impact Strike elite. Then in other threads there's the call out for daredevil dodge nerf, vault (I agree in part for being too spammy), headshot, sword shadowstep, the evasion from pistol whip, malicious attacks from DE.I am all for thief having activate defenses instead of relying heavily on steath and ports but it is obvious anet won't go into that direction for the profession. DD brought a bit more of control with Bandit's Defense and the 3rd dodge, however that's pretty much it, thief still needs the ports and shadowsteps to be able to survive and avoid heavy damage considering it has no other damage mitigation. However, there's still people asking to nerf that too! Honestly I think at this point, some players simply got used to asking for nerfs to certain profession and will keep calling out regardless of the state of the balance. Until thief has no dodge, no vigor, no backstab, no stealth, no ports, no shadowsteps, no off hand weapon, no secondary weapon, no elite, no traits, a -33% speed, no short bow, no staff, no sword, no auto attack, I feel like some players will never be content.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Thornwolf.9721" said:These issues are things people have brought up time and again, I don't know why you are surprised or acting like you know more than anyone else.

I defnitely know more than you.The thing you are describing with Engi literally does not exist in the game how did you, by now, not even double check your false incorrect statements, also about the Thief thingy, it is exactly as I said, you were confusing it with Impact Strike. In the same sentece you say "spiking while knocking-up" and then you go like "Oh I didnt actually mean spiking and knocking-up" and completely underline it with your utter lack of knoweldge about the game by claming Engi has double Elixir S AND claiming it can do dmg during its duration AND AFTER THAT you ask me if I even play the game. I really believe it is people like you that got us the competee non-sense nerfs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Comments about Thief in this thread are depressing. I guess you guys just aren't keen on the idea of classes. Thief already got nerfed to the point it hardly can 1v1 anything to safekeep its core features (mobility, stealth and spike damage is literally what makes a Thief a Thief).

And people still complain about it.

If you don't like the idea of classes being unique, maybe try a different kind of game? Because that's what people screaming for homogenization are asking. The removal of unique class features.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There will always be cries for nerfs when discussing a competitive gamemode in an mmo. Mmos are notorious for being nearly impossible to balance properly, and gw2 suffers more than most from this in pvp/wvw due to the complexity of combat and class skills/design. Yes, quite a lot of the complaints are just whining due to people not understanding their class role, expecting to win unfavorable matchups etc, but some are completely justified.

The class design in gw2 is far from being balanced, and introducing elite specs and power creep continues to make things worse. Just comparing the kits of some classes goes to show how. For example, take a look at holo, they can fill the role of +1, team fighter, duelist, bunker, and they have access to stealth, mobility, lots of cc, and strong cleave skills. Now look at weaver. They are funneled mostly into 1 role, s/d bunker, and arguably arent nearly as effective as other bunker builds. The meta classes fall into this category of being able to completely outperform other classes/specs at their respective roles, leaving the majority of classes feeling weak to near useless. Other examples would be how power shiro is still the best +1 spec, and is able to counter most of the other +1 specs, or how FB is undoubtedly the strongest group support.

Regarding thieves, their class by design is nearly impossible to balance since they are built around stealth, exceptional mobility, and burst damage, which can be difficult to fight against even for highly skilled players. Even when their skills are nerfed and reworked to the point where all but the best players can play them competitively, they can still seem overpowered because of their kit. The same reasoning applies to mesmer, and how their skill kit still seems overpowered despite all the nerfs they have received.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Crinn.7864 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:Looking at thieves..I realize the scope of nerf threads......
there is no scope other than knocking a profession out of viability

What do you mean ? Are thieves creating too many nerf threads?

No thieves keep stealing all the nerf threads.

That's funny on several levels.

stirs tea

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Alatar.7364 said:

@"Thornwolf.9721" said:These issues are things people have brought up time and again, I don't know why you are surprised or acting like you know more than anyone else.

I defnitely know more than you.The thing you are describing with Engi
literally does not exist in the game
how did you, by now, not even double check your false incorrect statements, also about the Thief thingy, it is exactly as I said, you were confusing it with
Impact Strike
. In the same sentece you say
"spiking while knocking-up"
and then you go like
"Oh I didnt actually mean spiking and knocking-up"
and completely underline it with your utter lack of knoweldge about the game by claming Engi has double Elixir S
AND
claiming it can do dmg during its duration
AND AFTER THAT
you ask me if
I
even play the game. I really believe it is people like you that got us the competee non-sense nerfs.

Perhaps as I said, numerous times that it might be a hack? I legitimately state numerous times through out that Im not sure if it is completely labled to the class itself. A-nets lack of willingness to ban hacking arse-holes kind of leads us to this area where when one does not PLAY a class because it does not suite nor interest them they may associate it with that class explicitly. Which Again I stated that it may or may not be the class itself; I honestly Don't get why you don't feel I know anything but thats fair I suppose everyone can have their own perception. Regardless I stand by what I said NO ONE should be able to spike someone in stealth, go invunerable or be able to dip out of an encounter by stealthing and running away.

Once you're in combat you should be committed, this goes for all classes in the game and shouldn't be limited to thief alone. I feel thief gets alot of the Ire because people want a scape goat when warrior, messmer and engie are right there doing similar shenanigans. Do I want it nerfed into the ground? No. I don't because I don't want any class to not be playable or accepted; I want to see all classes shine but I don't want it to come at the expense of the enjoyment for all who play. I don't care when I loose a fair fight, often im happy I got a good fight because it's fun. So Excuse me for not knowing the difference between a skill, to your point I made a big oof and when and looked it up for myself. There is no trait and you are correct; That is a fallacy on my part for believing it wasn't hacking, which undoubtedly it probably can be chalked up to that so I suppose that's again a notch toward the point I made prior.

Hacking is abundant right now and Im sure alot of people see someone doing something and think "That class is broken", when in reality the backdoor is wide open and the only people they ban are the ones saying they are doing it. We haven't seen them crack down or close the back door even though its in the terms of service and like I said prior; I hope they do. I don't agree that the thief SHOULD BE limited to a stealth, leap in and do what you can then run away and hide because it may not have worked class because its forefather the Assassin in guild wars 1 was anything but that. I feel it should be an underhanded fighter, brawler almost who is excellent at melee combat base wise and poor at range. Then you have dead-eye to change that for you, Daredevil to change how it works and gives you more tools that function in a different way to what you'd normally find.

Im sorry if you assumed I meant destroy it, or do some none-sense nerf where it makes it un-viable because I wouldn't dream of that. I remember when other classes suffered like that and I wouldn't want anyone to go through it. I just want them to stop allowing or I should say pigeon holing thieves into stealth, messmers into stupid broken shenanigans or nothing at all and warriors into abusing invulnerability. I want a fair fight at least in the face of pvp; I want to enjoy fighting my enemy and if they kill me I know its because they are better not because some weird shit happened. I've had people down and suddenly they are back up, we are completely alone so no way to rally and I got them dead to rights and they get up and then one shot me. That is hacking I know.

I have had thieves dead to rights, then they teleport go stealth and are gone and all I Can think is "Well great, he ran. Because he didn't account that I was prepared for it and wanted him to try and commit." It kind of makes for rough plays and it makes the inevitability of feeling shitty because rather than just allowing the fight to play out; You have people who will abuse a mechanic that has been an issue since launch and just continue its bullshit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Alatar.7364 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:kitten off, it happens all the time. A thief comes to spike and then suddenly for some reason the person they are spiking is being knocked in the air continueously; I straight said that it might be a hack

It can't, Hacks in Gw can be only speed/movement related. Also I have played PvP for years and I have never during that time seen happen what you describe. I am pretty sure you are confusing
Impact Strike
which is an Elite and it knocks-up only once with a CD of 40 seconds in its dmg is
hardly
anywhere near "spike dmg".

@Thornwolf.9721 said:Secondly Engineer has two Elixer S, one on trait when hitting the threshold and the other is one they actively can use.

No they don't. What is the last time you played Engineer... or PvP?

@Thornwolf.9721 said:I've seen engineers go from small to normal back to small; They can spike while in this form which is kitten as well as thieves spiking from stealth.

No they can't and never could, the hell? Are you even playing this game?

I believe the skill he's referring to is called palm strike. Which if landed successfully can do double knock downs. And a finishing blow that insta kills. But it's pretty difficult to land. Almost always every one uses dagger storm over it.

This guy clearly knows nothing about thieves want to comment cos he died by one.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Thornwolf.9721 said:Perhaps as I said, numerous times that it might be a hack?

Nope, you explicitly and very much literally said Engi has it as a trait and as a utility skill, never called it a hack only in regards to Thief, please stop trying to lie your way out of the fact that you just accused two professions of being broken based on stuff that A ) Doesn't exist in game, B ) Can not be hacked, because all game-related computing is done on Anets servers except movement, so only movement hacks exist.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...