No Downstate poll (please read post first)

[Nox.6785]

@"EremiteAngel.9765" said:Downstate should not be removed because there are some who enjoy playing support medic builds that involves rezzing downstates.

Make you "support medic build" keep them from dying then lol

[Auburner.6945]

To remove downstate means to also remove all oneshot and such insane bursting capabilities of all classes, like literally no matter what you build, you will take more than X seconds to kill an enemy, this means nerfing the damage across the board but also the support, so it isn't broken.

The reason of nerfing the damage. In LoL, the high burst meta the game has been on for a year or two now made the decision making almost non-existent, which means that you removed the skill level part and that also means, the thinking mind up there. Instead of getting hit and thinking what to do in real time to react and counter a move, the decision making now has become such as this: I can face roll on the keyboard and miss everything but still kill this player, should I or should I not, the decision is upon you to have mercy or not, knowing that the opponent won't react or counter a move. That's unhealthy for the combat system, the idea of killing people before they blink shouldn't exist in any game, we're not machines built to the negative million power of a second to have already reacted by the time the first hit lands.

Now since the damage will go down across the whole board, the support needs to face the same as supports now will be broken since they will face tank anything and that will also be the same as oneshotting but from a support's POV.

Other than that, I don't see downstate changing as it's not fun to get hit from 1800 range by a stealthed player that had to press 1 button to oneshot you. I will only agree on nerfs or removal if only the fights lasted longer, but are they? Absolutely not.

[TinkTinkPOOF.9201]

@zengara.8301 said:I voted for it to stay, but yeah. This whole poll is quiet biased af xD

How is it biased?

Give constructive input, not accusations.

[GDchiaScrub.3241]

@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

@"zengara.8301" said:I voted for it to stay, but yeah. This whole poll is quiet biased af xD

How is it biased?

Give constructive input, not accusations.

I think he means the "Nerf Downstate" is biased since it goes beyond a semantic argument comparison like "Perfect" vs. "Good." In your case, "Nerf" has a negative connotation as opposed to a middle ground that you may have intended. While I jokingly poked fun at it with a desire to have an option for "improve," the "Nerf" means you will only weaken downstate in some form. This leaves out anything that could "Buff" downstate (not all class down skills are balanced evenly so some people might desire buffs here and there).

TLDR: There are two negative options versus one positive option. Personally, Idc because player polls don't seem to do much anyway.

D:

[GDchiaScrub.3241]

@juno.1840 said:

@"GDchiaScrub.3241" said:Biased. No option to improve downstate was provided.

D:

In a way, the "Nerf Downstate" is effectively the same... it could be read as "change downstate"

Nerf is a negative change to my knowledge. So, no. Not the same. You are correct in that "Change Downstate" would have a more neutral ring to it, leaving the potential for negative and positive changes. It would be still be better to have "Other" if the desire was to have a non-binary option. Will this matter? Dunno bebe. Probably not. Just another ANET-ignored player poll among the hundreds.

D:

[Anput.4620]

Removing rally and only allowing resses out of combat (so you bleed out until the threat is gone) or with utility skills would suffice too. And yeah the HP has to be reduced because cleaving through 60k of HP is stupid.

@Auburner.6945 said:To remove downstate means to also remove all oneshot and such insane bursting capabilities of all classes, like literally no matter what you build, you will take more than X seconds to kill an enemy, this means nerfing the damage across the board but also the support, so it isn't broken.

The reason of nerfing the damage. In LoL, the high burst meta the game has been on for a year or two now made the decision making almost non-existent, which means that you removed the skill level part and that also means, the thinking mind up there. Instead of getting hit and thinking what to do in real time to react and counter a move, the decision making now has become such as this: I can face roll on the keyboard and miss everything but still kill this player, should I or should I not, the decision is upon you to have mercy or not, knowing that the opponent won't react or counter a move. That's unhealthy for the combat system, the idea of killing people before they blink shouldn't exist in any game, we're not machines built to the negative million power of a second to have already reacted by the time the first hit lands.

Now since the damage will go down across the whole board, the support needs to face the same as supports now will be broken since they will face tank anything and that will also be the same as oneshotting but from a support's POV.

Other than that, I don't see downstate changing as it's not fun to get hit from 1800 range by a stealthed player that had to press 1 button to oneshot you. I will only agree on nerfs or removal if only the fights lasted longer, but are they? Absolutely not.

Or you could not run glass and dodge which works for me 100% of the time.

[ArchonWing.9480]

There are too many mechanics built around downstate to get rid of it. The res mechanic itself is meant to promote teamwork and concern for one's teammates and serves that purpose in all game modes.

Rally on the other hand can go though. It's a source of toxicity because it definitely causes bad or inexperienced players to become a burden to their team, as well as open up more opportunities for malicious abuse as well. It adds very little to gameplay and also adds nonsense like rallying off NPCs. The nerf of rallying in the past has proven to been a positive change because rallybotting became less of a problem. At this point, we should just get rid of it entirely.

[zengara.8301]

@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

@"zengara.8301" said:I voted for it to stay, but yeah. This whole poll is quiet biased af xD

How is it biased?

Give constructive input, not accusations.

Yeah sure, it goes under "leading questions" where it unduly favour one response rather than the other.If the sampler of this survey wanted a neutral and true response from the responses, it would be much better to simply leave the comments as "remove downstate, nerf downstate and keep downstate".Chances are that peoples thought process while reading this, was, changing downstate will either be broken by the devs in some ways, or it would take a long time to change so many builds since it requires a whole lot, as stated above, which people might not have thought of previously, if it was stated as the 3 above questions with no leading answers to any of them.

The poll might have been somewhat affected by that, and that might be why the people who already wanted it to remain the same, decided to choose "leave downstate as is" + other people whom don't want the devs to touch it. (it is currently 28% - 27% - 44% which is weird)

Accusation: I think the dude wanted something and pushed others to vote for something else xDEDIT: the accusation part was a joke , basically your comment like his made me want to......I think u get it >.<

[zengara.8301]

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

@"zengara.8301" said:I voted for it to stay, but yeah. This whole poll is quiet biased af xD

How is it biased?

Give constructive input, not accusations.

I think he means the "Nerf Downstate" is biased since it goes beyond a semantic argument comparison like "Perfect" vs. "Good." In your case, "Nerf" has a negative connotation as opposed to a

middle

ground that you may have intended. While I jokingly poked fun at it with a desire to have an option for "improve," the "Nerf" means you will only weaken downstate in some form. This leaves out anything that could "Buff" downstate (not all class down skills are balanced evenly so some people might desire buffs here and there).

TLDR: There are two negative options versus one positive option. Personally, Idc because player polls don't seem to do much anyway.

D:

Oh yeah, that too xD^

[Charrbeque.8729]

Warclaw is no fun without down state.

[BadMed.3846]

Keep it. No downstate was boring as. It's a mechanic that serves a good teamplay purpose.

[Justine.6351]

Just capping it at 7 seconds of downed state then dead if not rallied would go along ways for smallscale.

[Dawdler.8521]

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

@juno.1840 said:

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:Biased. No option to improve downstate was provided.

D:

In a way, the "Nerf Downstate" is effectively the same... it could be read as "change downstate"

Nerf is a

negative

change to my knowledge. So, no. Not the same. You are correct in that "Change Downstate" would have a more neutral ring to it, leaving the potential for negative

and

positive changes. It would be still be better to have "Other" if the desire was to have a non-binary option. Will this matter? Dunno bebe. Probably not. Just another ANET-ignored player poll among the hundreds.

D:Semantics. Its not like people keep saying they want to improve the soulbeast. No they want to nerf it, even if its an improvement for every other class. I suggested this poll in the other thread because someone claimed that a majority wanted to remove downstate based on a poll that wasnt really relevant to removing downstate as a whole. We havent had any other since the week ended afaik. I wanted to get at least a little closer to a concesus that reflect whether forum peeps want to remove it, nerf it or keep as is. It could have been 2 options but that forces people to pick a side if they consider themselves a middle grounder "change downstate" so it would have had poor polling resolution with both sides getting votes that might not belong there. 4+ options listing every theoretical change that could be made would have just made a pointless poll.

[GDchiaScrub.3241]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

@juno.1840 said:

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:Biased. No option to improve downstate was provided.

D:

In a way, the "Nerf Downstate" is effectively the same... it could be read as "change downstate"

Nerf is a

negative

change to my knowledge. So, no. Not the same. You are correct in that "Change Downstate" would have a more neutral ring to it, leaving the potential for negative

and

positive changes. It would be still be better to have "Other" if the desire was to have a non-binary option. Will this matter? Dunno bebe. Probably not. Just another ANET-ignored player poll among the hundreds.

D:Semantics. Its not like people keep saying they want to improve the soulbeast. No they want to nerf it, even if its an improvement for every other class. I suggested this poll in the other thread because someone claimed that a majority wanted to remove downstate based on a poll that wasnt really relevant to removing downstate as a whole. We havent had any other since the week ended afaik. I wanted to get at least a little closer to a concesus that reflect whether forum peeps want to remove it, nerf it or keep as is. It could have been 2 options but that forces people to pick a side if they consider themselves a middle grounder "change downstate" so it would have had poor polling resolution with both sides getting votes that might not belong there. 4+ options listing every theoretical change that could be made would have just made a pointless poll.

Indeed. 4+ options polls would have been even more useless, and I didn't wholeheartedly advocate for that. I don't know what your point is about soulbeast. The majority of forum posts in this subsection are about complaints in one form or another. It can be the flavor of the week class nerf based on balance or simply a population issue. These complaints don't mean consensus to all people playing the game. How many praise threads do we see in comparison to complaint ones? Typically people having issues will stop playing then post the problem on the forum. Not really a "wow this is very balanced" (those happy threads do exist rarely).

Someone was being hyperbolic about "Nerf Downstate" being effectively the same as "Change Downstate." Nerfing is a type of change to downstate, yes. Buffing is the another type of change to downstate. These two are not the same. It is admirable you want to get closer to consensus in a fractured community, and even more so on a niche of that community ("forum peeps"). If you do want a good poll then word choice is important (which is why professional polls are difficult to make). So yes to "Semantics" if you wish. Although bickering between "Brilliant" "Perfect" "Superb" is more of a semantics issue for option choice.

Or just do 2 options if your goal is "consensus." Consensus tends to mean people agree on singular things while sacrificing nuance that the "third option" would propose. You won't get true consensus in the third option beyond a feeling of "my opinion is nuanced bro." Not saying there wouldn't be anything interesting in the "nuance."

P.S. I consider this event week a waste since it didn't test anything new, like "No Rally." This only adds to my bitter taste, and potentially skewing my views on the subject of this lazy rehashed event.

[Gop.8713]

Keep it. I'm fine either way, but it's a waste of resources to invest in changing it . . .

[TheBravery.9615]

downed state is a mechanic that panders to groups with most players. we don't need this unhealthy reverse handicap. Keep it in PvE, remove it from WvW.

[Dawdler.8521]

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

@juno.1840 said:

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:Biased. No option to improve downstate was provided.

D:

In a way, the "Nerf Downstate" is effectively the same... it could be read as "change downstate"

Nerf is a

negative

change to my knowledge. So, no. Not the same. You are correct in that "Change Downstate" would have a more neutral ring to it, leaving the potential for negative

and

positive changes. It would be still be better to have "Other" if the desire was to have a non-binary option. Will this matter? Dunno bebe. Probably not. Just another ANET-ignored player poll among the hundreds.

D:Semantics. Its not like people keep saying they want to improve the soulbeast. No they want to nerf it, even if its an improvement for every other class. I suggested this poll in the other thread because someone claimed that a majority wanted to remove downstate based on a poll that wasnt really relevant to removing downstate as a whole. We havent had any other since the week ended afaik. I wanted to get at least a little closer to a concesus that reflect whether forum peeps want to remove it, nerf it or keep as is. It could have been 2 options but that forces people to pick a side if they consider themselves a middle grounder "change downstate" so it would have had poor polling resolution with both sides getting votes that might not belong there. 4+ options listing every theoretical change that could be made would have just made a pointless poll.

Indeed. 4+ options polls would have been even more useless, and I didn't wholeheartedly advocate for that.

I don't know what your point is about soulbeast. The majority of forum posts in this subsection are about complaints in one form or another. It can be the flavor of the week class nerf based on balance or simply a population issue. These complaints don't mean consensus to all people playing the game. How many praise threads do we see in comparison to complaint ones? Typically people having issues will stop playing then post the problem on the forum. Not really a "wow this is very balanced" (those happy threads do exist rarely).

Someone was being hyperbolic about "Nerf Downstate" being effectively the same as "Change Downstate."

Nerfing is a type of change to downstate, yes. Buffing is the another type of change to downstate. These two are not the same.

It is admirable you want to get closer to consensus in a fractured community, and even more so on a niche of that community ("forum peeps"). If you do want a good poll then word choice is important (which is why professional polls are difficult to make). So yes to "Semantics" if you wish. Although bickering between "Brilliant" "Perfect" "Superb" is more of a semantics issue for option choice.

Or just do 2 options if your goal is "consensus."

Consensus tends to mean people agree on singular things while sacrificing nuance that the "third option" would propose.

You won't get true consensus in the third option beyond a feeling of "my opinion is nuanced bro." Not saying there wouldn't be anything interesting in the "nuance."

P.S. I consider this event week a waste since it didn't test anything new, like "No Rally." This only adds to my bitter taste, and potentially skewing my views on the subject of this lazy rehashed event.Cant please everyone. Pretty sure that "buff downstate" isnt on many peoples mind, "change" and "nerf" thus become eqvivalent for the purpose of description.

2 way poll options on this would not show the whole picture either way. Keep/Remove = forcing those that want a nerf somwhere in the middle to boost either side by having no choice. Keep/Nerf = lumping together people that want nerf in terms of changes and those that want to remove it (technically also a nerf). Nerf/Remove = biased against downstate no matter what you vote since those that just plain want it as it is arent allowed to vote.

[nthmetal.9652]

I'd like to see a nerfed downedstate: Simply reduce the number of HP you have in this state or increase the damage against downed targets, especially from non-area-attacks.What I usually see is: If red circles roll over me, I am dead within moments, of people bap at me with their weapons it takes quite some time to actually get it done. Maybe my perception is warped, because when I see red circles it's not one circle I see, but possibly stacked multiple ones. No idea, further analysis needed to determine if my perception is warped, or what I percieve is actually an issue with AoE instead of downsate.

[TinkTinkPOOF.9201]

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

@zengara.8301 said:I voted for it to stay, but yeah. This whole poll is quiet biased af xD

How is it biased?

Give constructive input, not accusations.

I think he means the "Nerf Downstate" is biased since it goes beyond a semantic argument comparison like "Perfect" vs. "Good." In your case, "Nerf" has a negative connotation as opposed to a

middle

ground that you may have intended. While I jokingly poked fun at it with a desire to have an option for "improve," the "Nerf" means you will only weaken downstate in some form. This leaves out anything that could "Buff" downstate (not all class down skills are balanced evenly so some people might desire buffs here and there).

TLDR: There are two negative options versus one positive option. Personally, Idc because player polls don't seem to do much anyway.

D:

I stated this in the thread. As I am for removing downstate (but would be happy with just changing it), and people like to suggest that if you view something one way, you will do whatever to make it favor your idea. I wanted this not to be the case, so I used the negative for the second option, so if anything, the poll favors the option that I don't want. I am actually shocked so far, that the poll favors changing or removing downstate over those who want to keep it. Had I not, people would be claiming that the poll is biased based on the second option of "Change downstate" being misleading.

I figured that more casual players would favor keeping it, as they FAR out number roamers and fight guilds. The poll can change at any time, but so far what it says to me is that those who are more casual also don't like or want something changed about the mechanic. I expected a solid 80/20 in favor of keeping downstate, and it's not even close to that, and a number of voters also picked the wrong option, as they voted to keep down state and then posted they wanted rally etc removed.

@zengara.8301 said:

@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

@zengara.8301 said:I voted for it to stay, but yeah. This whole poll is quiet biased af xD

How is it biased?

Give constructive input, not accusations.

Yeah sure, it goes under "leading questions" where it unduly favour one response rather than the other.If the sampler of this survey wanted a neutral and true response from the responses, it would be much better to simply leave the comments as "remove downstate, nerf downstate and keep downstate".Chances are that peoples thought process while reading this, was, changing downstate will either be broken by the devs in some ways, or it would take a long time to change so many builds since it requires a whole lot, as stated above, which people might not have thought of previously, if it was stated as the 3 above questions with no leading answers to any of them.

The poll might have been somewhat affected by that, and that might be why the people who already wanted it to remain the same, decided to choose "leave downstate as is" + other people whom don't want the devs to touch it. (it is currently 28% - 27% - 44% which is weird)

Accusation: I think the dude wanted something and pushed others to vote for something else xDEDIT: the accusation part was a joke , basically your comment like his made me want to......I think u get it >.<

I am not sure what you are saying. As explaining what the options are is not bias. I see to many polls that the whole thread turns into a "what if" fest because everyone takes the options to mean something else. So putting the meaning and intention of each option is needed, if you don't people get confused and vote for something they might not want. As it is, a few people already did, I am assuming they didn't read the post, as they voted to keep down state, but then posted saying they wanted rally etc etc removed from downstate, which is actually spelled out in the "nerf downstate" option.

If you are saying the two options for changing downstate are in negative terms, like the poster above, then yes. As I am for removing or changing downstate, I would rather be accused of not favoring my own preference, than favoring it.

[zengara.8301]

@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

@zengara.8301 said:I voted for it to stay, but yeah. This whole poll is quiet biased af xD

How is it biased?

Give constructive input, not accusations.

I think he means the "Nerf Downstate" is biased since it goes beyond a semantic argument comparison like "Perfect" vs. "Good." In your case, "Nerf" has a negative connotation as opposed to a

middle

ground that you may have intended. While I jokingly poked fun at it with a desire to have an option for "improve," the "Nerf" means you will only weaken downstate in some form. This leaves out anything that could "Buff" downstate (not all class down skills are balanced evenly so some people might desire buffs here and there).

TLDR: There are two negative options versus one positive option. Personally, Idc because player polls don't seem to do much anyway.

D:

I stated this in the thread. As I am for removing downstate (but would be happy with just changing it), and people like to suggest that if you view something one way, you will do whatever to make it favor your idea. I wanted this not to be the case, so I used the negative for the second option, so if anything, the poll favors the option that I don't want. I am actually shocked so far, that the poll favors changing or removing downstate over those who want to keep it. Had I not, people would be claiming that the poll is biased based on the second option of "Change downstate" being misleading.

I figured that more casual players would favor keeping it, as they FAR out number roamers and fight guilds. The poll can change at any time, but so far what it says to me is that those who are more casual also don't like or want something changed about the mechanic. I expected a solid 80/20 in favor of keeping downstate, and it's not even close to that, and a number of voters also picked the wrong option, as they voted to keep down state and then posted they wanted rally etc removed.

@zengara.8301 said:

@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

@zengara.8301 said:I voted for it to stay, but yeah. This whole poll is quiet biased af xD

How is it biased?

Give constructive input, not accusations.

Yeah sure, it goes under "leading questions" where it unduly favour one response rather than the other.If the sampler of this survey wanted a neutral and true response from the responses, it would be much better to simply leave the comments as "remove downstate, nerf downstate and keep downstate".Chances are that peoples thought process while reading this, was, changing downstate will either be broken by the devs in some ways, or it would take a long time to change so many builds since it requires a whole lot, as stated above, which people might not have thought of previously, if it was stated as the 3 above questions with no leading answers to any of them.

The poll might have been somewhat affected by that, and that might be why the people who already wanted it to remain the same, decided to choose "leave downstate as is" + other people whom don't want the devs to touch it. (it is currently 28% - 27% - 44% which is weird)

Accusation: I think the dude wanted something and pushed others to vote for something else xDEDIT: the accusation part was a joke , basically your comment like his made me want to......I think u get it >.<

I am not sure what you are saying. As explaining what the options are is not bias. I see to many polls that the whole thread turns into a "what if" fest because everyone takes the options to mean something else. So putting the meaning and intention of each option is needed, if you don't people get confused and vote for something they might not want. As it is, a few people already did, I am assuming they didn't read the post, as they voted to keep down state, but then posted saying they wanted rally etc etc removed from downstate, which is actually spelled out in the "nerf downstate" option.

If you are saying the two options for changing downstate are in negative terms, like the poster above, then yes. As I am for removing or changing downstate, I would rather be accused of not favoring my own preference, than favoring it.

Nah, I was just quoting what I learned in method surveys analysis, qualitative analysis, data collection.There you go: https://stattrek.com/survey-research/survey-bias.aspxGo under: Leading Questions

Half the battle is to create precise and simple answers, with the least amount of push/pull people to answers by using the rule-set. Not saying that because this poll is somewhat bias, that it is un-usable. You just gotta have that part in mind as well.

[TinkTinkPOOF.9201]

@zengara.8301 said:

@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

@zengara.8301 said:I voted for it to stay, but yeah. This whole poll is quiet biased af xD

How is it biased?

Give constructive input, not accusations.

I think he means the "Nerf Downstate" is biased since it goes beyond a semantic argument comparison like "Perfect" vs. "Good." In your case, "Nerf" has a negative connotation as opposed to a

middle

ground that you may have intended. While I jokingly poked fun at it with a desire to have an option for "improve," the "Nerf" means you will only weaken downstate in some form. This leaves out anything that could "Buff" downstate (not all class down skills are balanced evenly so some people might desire buffs here and there).

TLDR: There are two negative options versus one positive option. Personally, Idc because player polls don't seem to do much anyway.

D:

I stated this in the thread. As I am for removing downstate (but would be happy with just changing it), and people like to suggest that if you view something one way, you will do whatever to make it favor your idea. I wanted this not to be the case, so I used the negative for the second option, so if anything, the poll favors the option that I don't want. I am actually shocked so far, that the poll favors changing or removing downstate over those who want to keep it. Had I not, people would be claiming that the poll is biased based on the second option of "Change downstate" being misleading.

I figured that more casual players would favor keeping it, as they FAR out number roamers and fight guilds. The poll can change at any time, but so far what it says to me is that those who are more casual also don't like or want something changed about the mechanic. I expected a solid 80/20 in favor of keeping downstate, and it's not even close to that, and a number of voters also picked the wrong option, as they voted to keep down state and then posted they wanted rally etc removed.

@zengara.8301 said:

@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

@zengara.8301 said:I voted for it to stay, but yeah. This whole poll is quiet biased af xD

How is it biased?

Give constructive input, not accusations.

Yeah sure, it goes under "leading questions" where it unduly favour one response rather than the other.If the sampler of this survey wanted a neutral and true response from the responses, it would be much better to simply leave the comments as "remove downstate, nerf downstate and keep downstate".Chances are that peoples thought process while reading this, was, changing downstate will either be broken by the devs in some ways, or it would take a long time to change so many builds since it requires a whole lot, as stated above, which people might not have thought of previously, if it was stated as the 3 above questions with no leading answers to any of them.

The poll might have been somewhat affected by that, and that might be why the people who already wanted it to remain the same, decided to choose "leave downstate as is" + other people whom don't want the devs to touch it. (it is currently 28% - 27% - 44% which is weird)

Accusation: I think the dude wanted something and pushed others to vote for something else xDEDIT: the accusation part was a joke , basically your comment like his made me want to......I think u get it >.<

I am not sure what you are saying. As explaining what the options are is not bias. I see to many polls that the whole thread turns into a "what if" fest because everyone takes the options to mean something else. So putting the meaning and intention of each option is needed, if you don't people get confused and vote for something they might not want. As it is, a few people already did, I am assuming they didn't read the post, as they voted to keep down state, but then posted saying they wanted rally etc etc removed from downstate, which is actually spelled out in the "nerf downstate" option.

If you are saying the two options for changing downstate are in negative terms, like the poster above, then yes. As I am for removing or changing downstate, I would rather be accused of not favoring my own preference, than favoring it.

Nah, I was just quoting what I learned in method surveys analysis, qualitative analysis, data collection.There you go:

https://stattrek.com/survey-research/survey-bias.aspx

Go under: Leading Questions

Half the battle is to create precise and simple answers, with the least amount of push/pull people to answers by using the rule-set. Not saying that because this poll is somewhat bias, that it is un-usable. You just gotta have that part in mind as well.

Yes, I am well aware, again, I even stated this already in the thread and the reasons for it.

This is also a self sampling, uncontrolled with no base line. And everyone is biased here. Anet has access to the data, they don't need a poll, the poll was for myself, as others in the forum state that "only 1-shot gankers want no downstate", ad nauseam. Anet can look at numbers, users and hours played etc for no downstate events to see who really likes what, but that is not data we are privy to. Also, forum users are pretty rare in relation to total in game population, an in game poll could have completely different results.

[Dediggefedde.4961]

I like the downed-state system.

However, can the function gyro still be reworked?Or at least a "target next downed ally" keybinding added?

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:snipsthere is nothing wrong with your poll, don't get dragged into an argument over insignificant minutia. it will probably lead to thread derailment anyways.

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

@zengara.8301 said:

@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

@zengara.8301 said:I voted for it to stay, but yeah. This whole poll is quiet biased af xD

How is it biased?

Give constructive input, not accusations.

I think he means the "Nerf Downstate" is biased since it goes beyond a semantic argument comparison like "Perfect" vs. "Good." In your case, "Nerf" has a negative connotation as opposed to a

middle

ground that you may have intended. While I jokingly poked fun at it with a desire to have an option for "improve," the "Nerf" means you will only weaken downstate in some form. This leaves out anything that could "Buff" downstate (not all class down skills are balanced evenly so some people might desire buffs here and there).

TLDR: There are two negative options versus one positive option. Personally, Idc because player polls don't seem to do much anyway.

D:

I stated this in the thread. As I am for removing downstate (but would be happy with just changing it), and people like to suggest that if you view something one way, you will do whatever to make it favor your idea. I wanted this not to be the case, so I used the negative for the second option, so if anything, the poll favors the option that I don't want. I am actually shocked so far, that the poll favors changing or removing downstate over those who want to keep it. Had I not, people would be claiming that the poll is biased based on the second option of "Change downstate" being misleading.

I figured that more casual players would favor keeping it, as they FAR out number roamers and fight guilds. The poll can change at any time, but so far what it says to me is that those who are more casual also don't like or want something changed about the mechanic. I expected a solid 80/20 in favor of keeping downstate, and it's not even close to that, and a number of voters also picked the wrong option, as they voted to keep down state and then posted they wanted rally etc removed.

@zengara.8301 said:

@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

@zengara.8301 said:I voted for it to stay, but yeah. This whole poll is quiet biased af xD

How is it biased?

Give constructive input, not accusations.

Yeah sure, it goes under "leading questions" where it unduly favour one response rather than the other.If the sampler of this survey wanted a neutral and true response from the responses, it would be much better to simply leave the comments as "remove downstate, nerf downstate and keep downstate".Chances are that peoples thought process while reading this, was, changing downstate will either be broken by the devs in some ways, or it would take a long time to change so many builds since it requires a whole lot, as stated above, which people might not have thought of previously, if it was stated as the 3 above questions with no leading answers to any of them.

The poll might have been somewhat affected by that, and that might be why the people who already wanted it to remain the same, decided to choose "leave downstate as is" + other people whom don't want the devs to touch it. (it is currently 28% - 27% - 44% which is weird)

Accusation: I think the dude wanted something and pushed others to vote for something else xDEDIT: the accusation part was a joke , basically your comment like his made me want to......I think u get it >.<

I am not sure what you are saying. As explaining what the options are is not bias. I see to many polls that the whole thread turns into a "what if" fest because everyone takes the options to mean something else. So putting the meaning and intention of each option is needed, if you don't people get confused and vote for something they might not want. As it is, a few people already did, I am assuming they didn't read the post, as they voted to keep down state, but then posted saying they wanted rally etc etc removed from downstate, which is actually spelled out in the "nerf downstate" option.

If you are saying the two options for changing downstate are in negative terms, like the poster above, then yes. As I am for removing or changing downstate, I would rather be accused of not favoring my own preference, than favoring it.

Nah, I was just quoting what I learned in method surveys analysis, qualitative analysis, data collection.There you go:

https://stattrek.com/survey-research/survey-bias.aspx

Go under: Leading Questions

Half the battle is to create precise and simple answers, with the least amount of push/pull people to answers by using the rule-set. Not saying that because this poll is somewhat bias, that it is un-usable. You just gotta have that part in mind as well.

Yes, I am well aware, again, I even stated this already in the thread and the reasons for it.

This is also a self sampling, uncontrolled with no base line. And everyone is biased here. Anet has access to the data, they don't need a poll, the poll was for myself, as others in the forum state that "only 1-shot gankers want no downstate", ad nauseam. Anet can look at numbers, users and hours played etc for no downstate events to see who really likes what, but that is not data we are privy to. Also, forum users are pretty rare in relation to total in game population, an in game poll could have completely different results.

I wouldnt mind it and I dont play a condi or 1 shot build...dont need those kind of gimmicks to win.

[zengara.8301]

@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

@zengara.8301 said:

@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

@zengara.8301 said:I voted for it to stay, but yeah. This whole poll is quiet biased af xD

How is it biased?

Give constructive input, not accusations.

I think he means the "Nerf Downstate" is biased since it goes beyond a semantic argument comparison like "Perfect" vs. "Good." In your case, "Nerf" has a negative connotation as opposed to a

middle

ground that you may have intended. While I jokingly poked fun at it with a desire to have an option for "improve," the "Nerf" means you will only weaken downstate in some form. This leaves out anything that could "Buff" downstate (not all class down skills are balanced evenly so some people might desire buffs here and there).

TLDR: There are two negative options versus one positive option. Personally, Idc because player polls don't seem to do much anyway.

D:

I stated this in the thread. As I am for removing downstate (but would be happy with just changing it), and people like to suggest that if you view something one way, you will do whatever to make it favor your idea. I wanted this not to be the case, so I used the negative for the second option, so if anything, the poll favors the option that I don't want. I am actually shocked so far, that the poll favors changing or removing downstate over those who want to keep it. Had I not, people would be claiming that the poll is biased based on the second option of "Change downstate" being misleading.

I figured that more casual players would favor keeping it, as they FAR out number roamers and fight guilds. The poll can change at any time, but so far what it says to me is that those who are more casual also don't like or want something changed about the mechanic. I expected a solid 80/20 in favor of keeping downstate, and it's not even close to that, and a number of voters also picked the wrong option, as they voted to keep down state and then posted they wanted rally etc removed.

@zengara.8301 said:

@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

@zengara.8301 said:I voted for it to stay, but yeah. This whole poll is quiet biased af xD

How is it biased?

Give constructive input, not accusations.

Yeah sure, it goes under "leading questions" where it unduly favour one response rather than the other.If the sampler of this survey wanted a neutral and true response from the responses, it would be much better to simply leave the comments as "remove downstate, nerf downstate and keep downstate".Chances are that peoples thought process while reading this, was, changing downstate will either be broken by the devs in some ways, or it would take a long time to change so many builds since it requires a whole lot, as stated above, which people might not have thought of previously, if it was stated as the 3 above questions with no leading answers to any of them.

The poll might have been somewhat affected by that, and that might be why the people who already wanted it to remain the same, decided to choose "leave downstate as is" + other people whom don't want the devs to touch it. (it is currently 28% - 27% - 44% which is weird)

Accusation: I think the dude wanted something and pushed others to vote for something else xDEDIT: the accusation part was a joke , basically your comment like his made me want to......I think u get it >.<

I am not sure what you are saying. As explaining what the options are is not bias. I see to many polls that the whole thread turns into a "what if" fest because everyone takes the options to mean something else. So putting the meaning and intention of each option is needed, if you don't people get confused and vote for something they might not want. As it is, a few people already did, I am assuming they didn't read the post, as they voted to keep down state, but then posted saying they wanted rally etc etc removed from downstate, which is actually spelled out in the "nerf downstate" option.

If you are saying the two options for changing downstate are in negative terms, like the poster above, then yes. As I am for removing or changing downstate, I would rather be accused of not favoring my own preference, than favoring it.

Nah, I was just quoting what I learned in method surveys analysis, qualitative analysis, data collection.There you go:

https://stattrek.com/survey-research/survey-bias.aspx

Go under: Leading Questions

Half the battle is to create precise and simple answers, with the least amount of push/pull people to answers by using the rule-set. Not saying that because this poll is somewhat bias, that it is un-usable. You just gotta have that part in mind as well.

Yes, I am well aware, again, I even stated this already in the thread and the reasons for it.

This is also a self sampling, uncontrolled with no base line. And everyone is biased here. Anet has access to the data, they don't need a poll, the poll was for myself, as others in the forum state that "only 1-shot gankers want no downstate", ad nauseam. Anet can look at numbers, users and hours played etc for no downstate events to see who really likes what, but that is not data we are privy to. Also, forum users are pretty rare in relation to total in game population, an in game poll could have completely different results.

Oh ok, just wanted to explain why its biased, nothing more, could not see that you already knew that from your thread >.<

[Not sure if that last part was serious, otherwise ignore this part.]I don't think this poll will in anyway help -you- find out, how many of the people who want downstate to be nerfed/gone are 1-shot gankers. Based on the poll, you can create a stronger argument to yourself, that the 1-shot gankers in the forums are the once who don't want downstate, rather than others that do, since they tend to be less accepted in the forums and also in general less active in here (In other words, if "Keep downstate" got voted for less than the 2 others, you could argue that you don't know, or that the 1 shot gankers want downstate to remain). Also less than people roaming/blob in general.....But I personally think that it is a biiiiit to far fetched. Don't think it is possible to actually create that kind of argument in the first place from this poll.