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(For Dev & Players) WEAVER & SWORD analysis. (Sum Up : Weaver is great but Sword need small buffs !)


Lasiurus.4067

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Hi everyone.
Here I’m going to make my own analysis on Weaver & Sword efficience, after 1 week of playing it.It’s my own opinion, you may not agree, just tell me in the commentary section what you think about it.

First : Weaver.

The mechanism is just great. It’s hard at the beginning, we were kinda lost with the new 2 attument, but when you starts to get used to this, it becomes pretty cool.It gives us the possibility to make new combos, & the new skill for EACH weapon is just insane.
Traits from Weaver are quite different & give us the possibility to make different build, power oriented (1-2-1), or condition oriented.



But the biggest problem is the rework of Woven Stride(Grand Master #2)This trait was meant to have the ability to deal with condition cleanse, WITHOUT investing in the water line.
 The previous state, purging 1 condition per 0.5s while under Superspeed effect, was a bit overpower, especially for Fresh Air build.
I understand it needed a rework.
But WHY did you then put regeneration on speed to clean condition?

Water Line is the only efficient way to clean condition. That’s a problem for build variety, because in every PvX mode (PvP, WvW), when you cannot deal with friends to purge your conditions, you HAVE to take water.


For build variety, you should make an alternative.

 What about Woven Stride giving 3s Resistance when hit by condition (15s CD) + 1s Resistance when granted speed ?It’s Imo a good way to he efficient (especially with boon duration) but not OP (Boon removal…)

To sum up : Weaver is great unless we take time to get fit on it.
But the only problem is this Grand Master Trait that forces us to run Water, again & again.




Now : Sword.

I Played it in PvE, PvP, WvW.

This weapon, well.It’s kinda disappointing.

  • Autoattacks are REALLY slow, offer low DPS & low condition. Compare to Dagger Air #1, it has about only 50% of its DPS, without a lesser range (130 versus 300 !). Shorter ranger means more risk & should be more rewarding. It’s not. You should increase a bit DPS & mostly gives a bit more condition.

  • Overall DPS & condition are really bad. Dagger Mainhand offer both MORE DPS & MORE CONDITION. For exemple, Fire Breath (Dagger Fire #2) gives 4 stack of fire for 4s with a 5s CD… thats more than Sword Skill #1 + #2 + #3 combined ! Sword was supposed to gives us both Power & condition damage. It’s sad it’s so low, with more risk than dagger.

  • Dual attunment skill, except Lava Skin (Fire/Earth #3), are quite bad, both effect & DPS, especially compared to other weapon (Dagger Dual Skin are way better, 2 Blast)

  • Animation are huge & Skills are mostly really slow to cast, making it easy to dodge.

  • CC is great. You got a stun + Leap from Air #2, a Float from Air/Earth #3. It’s best CC Weapon for a Mainhand Weapon.

  • Survability is the best of all weapon. Thanks to Water #2, best skill of sword. 1.75s evade + 400 back retreat + heal + Water Field + 12s CD. You can easily blast inside thanks to Earth Attunement. Just a great skill. Earth #2 is a 1s evade, nearly instant cast, with a 10s CD. Also great. 


  • Mobility thanks to Air #2 is okay. Perhaps this skill should be instant cast, it would allow great combo & will help the problem of short range skills.

  • Interaction & combos are great. You can blast inside your water field, you have a fire field with Fire #2 (but only 2s thought), ou have 2 leap (Fire #2 is also a leap, occurs at begin of animation) + Air #2. You can easily get Fire Auras.

To sum up : Great weapon to survive, great CC… But terrible DPS. This weapon is a bit like FOCUS. DPS really slow but great survability. Combined with focus, you are unkillable but you will never kill anyone. Combined with Dagger OffHand is great but still lacks of DPS.

Survability is great, most of skills are great. But please, we need a bit more DPS, & bit more condition, to make this great weapon so fun to play in WvW Roaming more rewarding, especially when compared to Dagger/Dagger !I understand it should be no more DPS than Dagger, because it has bigger survivability. But here DPS is, sadly, really low.

Thanks all, if you agree or disagree just say it, & let’s speak about weaver & sword :)


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I was very disappointed when I found that specific trait line traits that reduce the recharge time of either fire/earth/water/air skills, doesn't reduce the recharge time of the dual attacks.

For example, if I have the air and fire traitline, my fire/air dual attack should have 40% reduced recharge.

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i second this but would like to add a few more points:

• instead of simple damage buff traits like elements of rage who are only fuelling heavy hitters used in pve and putting it there out of line there should ve been an overall better base dmg of skills across the board. i fear that if they put pve weaver in line in the future they ll nerf the overall really crappy base dmg of skills further. not only are dmg buffs the lazy way but also an excuse to cripple our skills outside of pve further.

• #3 skills those behind woven elements were all crucial for ele survival and dmg and are part of the low damage problem outside of some stuncombo.

• AA should be en par with thiefs dagger or revs sword in dmg and speed.

• the point were we need to predict things was allready given with the abysmal casttimes across the board on skills. now we need to predict not only the element we need to be in but ontop also the casttimes. does the dev of ele ever predicted that this might be a problem in any pvp scenario?

• fire atunement offers absolutly nothing to power specs. making cauterizing strike the woven skill would fix this.

• weaver has nothing to maintain the sword range. air #2 is by far not enough. every class has either immunitys to soft cc or/and way more ports to get out of range. its all good in pvp were you have a fixed note to fight around its absolutly bollux outside of it.

• again other classes received major buffs before an xpac (mesmer, thief, guard,..) and again ele received major nerfs before an xpac. what do you expact really?

• why is it that you neglect the former mighstackbot ele any way of getting those 25 might every other class seem to get on the fly? not only that but any way of receiving quickness?

• stealth was our biggest counter since forever as most of our skills need a target to perform. block can be added to that aswell. outside of an now out of reach phoenix and gale theres none. take a look at sw/d thief for exampel where the unblockable skills can be spammed and are hurting.

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Chain attks need to carry over though atuments. If you start in water and swap to fire you should not lose that chain. If any thing having sword on core ele or tempest would be more effect at having the current chain attks and its limitation as you can chose to swap to a new atument when you want to letting you better time out your other atuments cd (or in tempest case let you wait for the overload cd). This would go a long way to fixing weaver dps problems as chain attks tend to be better dps then longer cd burst skills.

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I don't mind any of the abilities, I think they are good and flow nicely, but the power damage is really low. Since we're apparently never going to get a grevious insignia, I'm sticking with just power. Good survivability but it would be nice to have a bit more burst. It is slow. Air especially is slow and should be the fastest one.

All in all, speed them up and increase power and I'll be content. I still enjoy the spec a lot and it has a lot more fluidity than I thought it would once you get used to the rotation and develop the muscle memory. Just wish that in full glass gear I wasn't putting out less damage than other weapon sets or a tempest overload.

Tempest in general seems to still be much higher damage but I haven't really tried too much with staff other than a few bounties which are next to impossible to get a good idea for dps anyway due to their mechanics messing up rotations.

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My wishlist would be this:

  • Increase range on sword
  • Raise the damage values on Sword, specifically related to Auto Attacks.
  • Faster Attack speed if no Auto attack damage increase.
  • Aquatic Stance: Higher healing per hit or increased stance duration from 5s to 7s
  • Cooldowns decreased for most stances.

I may have a different opinion on these matters if and when Scourge / Spellbreaker get nerfed. The range is only important to me due to my Australian internet, it's really hard to WvW and PvP with the sword range being 130 and I swear Infinite light's range is longer than skill range.

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I agree on damage on sword needing adjustment as well as the attack speed. The "not losing the change part" would also be a great touch.

But I strongly disagree that traits are good or that weaver only needs changes to the Sword DPS to make it slightly better than dagger DPS. We will again just have a bruiser role which we have had since 2012.

The traits are awful - they are purely %damage buffs or personal stat buffs that are unimaginative and terrible for the future of the spec.

First, because they offer nothing new to the class (only damage) - which is extremely boring when we see the amount of new stuff that the other classes are getting and the strategies that they offer to deal with various scenarios (raw power is not an new strat, rather interrupts, dealing with boons, new condis, new boons, etc are).

And second, offering only damage gives you a false impression of power because ANET will not come out and say "well we want Weaver to be a selfish DPS spec that outperforms all other professions if you gear it to damage by at least X% (insert value of damage traits)".

ANET will balance the class around the damage of the others and we will not significantly outperform the others to be worth it, so guess what will happen? We will be thrash because others will offer equal or slightly lower DPS, but with an infinitely better set of other tools and group support that our raw power does not compare with - so, not preferred and thus most likely to be shunned upon for "meta classes".

Not to mention that for those that PvP - the traits are not good either as they are far too weak (and having 3 damage traits that are just that - raw numbers without anything else) is bad and does not offer the necessary tools to survive / win fights on 1v1, specially when other classes bring that to the table (raw power) and utility on most of their damage traits / traitlines.

The utility skills also need much help as well as they fall in the same concept - nothing new. Water stance is signet of restoration, earth stance is pretty much arcane shield, air stance is selfish Eye of the Storm, the condi stance is moveable glyph of storms. Nothing new and the elite, again, is nothing "Elite worthy" - it is new, but it is weak for an Elite when you have things like Spellbreaker Elite out there that offers so much more.

And don't get me started on Unravel.

Weaver has potential and I like the mechanic. But it needs to bring new things to the ele and not just what we always had with a new clothing - right now this is what we have, an wardrobe change.

And I really hope ANET takes the time and care with the spec to do this, because it would be a shame to see a great idea (Weaver) became relegated to a subpar spec.

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@bOTEB.1573 said:I was very disappointed when I found that specific trait line traits that reduce the recharge time of either fire/earth/water/air skills, doesn't reduce the recharge time of the dual attacks.

For example, if I have the air and fire traitline, my fire/air dual attack should have 40% reduced recharge.

Don't know if they should stack but yeah, if you have 20% recharge on fire skills, the fire/air, fire/water and fire/earth dual skills should get reduced cooldown too.

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@Aether McLoud.1975 said:

@bOTEB.1573 said:I was very disappointed when I found that specific trait line traits that reduce the recharge time of either fire/earth/water/air skills, doesn't reduce the recharge time of the dual attacks.

For example, if I have the air and fire traitline, my fire/air dual attack should have 40% reduced recharge.

Don't know if they should stack but yeah, if you have 20% recharge on fire skills, the fire/air, fire/water and fire/earth dual skills should get reduced cooldown too.

That and the Fire AA from Sword should also work with pyromancer's puissance in every attack and not just the last one.

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@Lasiurus.4067 said:

The mechanism is just great.It’s hard at the beginning, we were kinda lost with the new 2 attument, but when you starts to get used to this, it becomes pretty cool.True !

the new skill for EACH weapon is just insane.
Not true, some of em suck, and the barrier is too bad considering you can't spam your 3rd skills

But the biggest problem is the rework of Woven Stride(Grand Master #2)This trait was meant to have the ability to deal with condition cleanse, WITHOUT investing in the water line.False, it cleaned only movement conditions, now it gives you the ability to have cleansing in your own rotation, which is better than anything.

But WHY did you then put regeneration on speed to clean condition?Arcana is meant to be taken with Weaver (for reason), I guess Elemental attunement is better since is cleanse you when you attune to water and air

Water Line is the only efficient way to clean condition. That’s a problem for build variety, because in every PvX mode (PvP, WvW), when you cannot deal with friends to purge your conditions, you HAVE to take water.
True !

For build variety, you should make an alternative.

 What about Woven Stride giving 3s Resistance when hit by condition (15s CD) + 1s Resistance when granted speed ?It’s Imo a good way to he efficient (especially with boon duration) but not OP (Boon removal…)Resistance is strong, we have no resistance on Elementalist, while some classes have blocks, incredible heals, incredible cc, and many ways to get resistance (Warrior has resistance on healing signet (even if they don't use it) on a stance, and on a new utilitary + full counter with spellbreaker, i'm sad ! But with the weaver we have good cleansing, sooooo, I gues it's ok ?)

To sum up : Weaver is great unless we take time to get fit on it.
But the only problem is this Grand Master Trait that forces us to run Water, again & again.


So true !

Now : Sword.

I Played it in PvE, PvP, WvW.

This weapon, well.It’s kinda disappointing.True ! It's slow and the range is awful, people can avoid most of the condi burst / power burst by just stepping back. DisgustingOnce again, full counter from Spellbreaker has 300 range, primordial stance has 180, lmao. Who's the real melee warrior ? Not warrior anymore.

Autoattacks are REALLY slow, offer low DPS & low condition. Compare to Dagger Air #1, it has about only 50% of its DPS, without a lesser range (130 versus 300 !). Shorter ranger means more risk & should be more rewarding. It’s not. You should increase a bit DPS & mostly gives a bit more condition.I think the damage is okay, but it's too slow yes.

  • Overall DPS & condition are really bad. Dagger Mainhand offer both MORE DPS & MORE CONDITION. For exemple, Fire Breath (Dagger Fire #2) gives 4 stack of fire for 4s with a 5s CD… thats more than Sword Skill #1 + #2 + #3 combined ! Sword was supposed to gives us both Power & condition damage. It’s sad it’s so low, with more risk than dagger.Sword is still different and pretty dynamic, getting access to different things is so cool, no more warhorn yeay. But it really needs balance and less cast time.

  • Dual attunment skill, except Lava Skin (Fire/Earth #3), are quite bad, both effect & DPS, especially compared to other weapon (Dagger Dual Skin are way better, 2 Blast)True ! And don't talk about the water/air with Shining Blade, it's DISGUSTING. Just a sword floating, it's stupid.and again, too slow, Ele is supposed to be fast at firing skills !

  • Animation are huge & Skills are mostly really slow to cast, making it easy to dodge.Primordial Stance is telling your ennemies "Step back, just a little bit"Also can we agree about how stupid is this skill ? It's supposed to have amazing conditions, but instead, you're dealing damage, Spellbreaker use full counter -> You can't avoid hitting the spellbreaker with primordial stance -> Spellbreaker has resistance -> your primordial stance is useless. GG Anet, GG ! Condi weaver will never beat Speallbreaker at this rate :D3 air/earth is. s. l. o.... zzzz... w.

  • CC is great. You got a stun + Leap from Air #2, a Float from Air/Earth #3. It’s best CC Weapon for a Mainhand Weapon.True, cc is okay, but I think the daze on #2 air is quite bad. Half a second, please.

  • Survability is the best of all weapon. Thanks to Water #2, best skill of sword. 1.75s evade + 400 back retreat + heal + Water Field + 12s CD. You can easily blast inside thanks to Earth Attunement. Just a great skill. Earth #2 is a 1s evade, nearly instant cast, with a 10s CD. Also great. 
True !

  • Mobility thanks to Air #2 is okay. Perhaps this skill should be instant cast, it would allow great combo & will help the problem of short range skills.To help the "short range issue" they just need to increase the range of our attacks, or else weaver won't be threatning enough (Have you check how ridiculous 130 range is ? Seriously, most people just have to kite you a bit, and you won't hit em xD)

  • Interaction & combos are great. You can blast inside your water field, you have a fire field with Fire #2 (but only 2s thought), ou have 2 leap (Fire #2 is also a leap, occurs at begin of animation) + Air #2. You can easily get Fire Auras.Actually, I enjoy the sword/dagger, I can have 2 blast in fire field, 1 leap in fire field, 1 leap in water field.

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Yes sword needs some tweaks.If sword is going to be a viable weapon for pvp and wvw, it needs tweaks on the tools we use to stay on target (swiftness on air and cripple on earth).If sword is going to be a condi weapon, it need more burn and bleed applications.If sword is going to be a hybrid weapon, it needs much better power scaling and attack speed, specially in air.In any case dual skills need to get CD reductions from their corresponding attunement trait lines.

So here are a few changes:

  • Dual skills CD are reduced by CD reducing traits on respective elemental trait lines.
  • Second step of all auto chains reduced in cast time to 1/2 s.
  • Higher power coefficient on air autos and lightening strikes (3rd air auto chain and air#3);
  • Swiftness moved to first strike of air auto, 1s quickness on second, vulnerability on each lightening strike on third;
  • Higher field duration on fire#2 and (cyclone duration) on air/fire#3;
  • More burn stacks on fire auto: 1s burn on first strike, 2s burn on 2nd strike, 2x3s burn on third (already there)
  • Cripple on first strike of earth auto, weakness on second, 3x bleed on third;
  • Improved healing power coefficient on water autos
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My biggest gripe besides swords low power damage, is that Unravel is just a completely unusable utility skill. IMHO it should be completely reworked into a condition removal skill, since we're thoroughly lacking condi removal outside of water traitline anyway.

Something like

Unravel Stance: Remove 2 conditions on you, and 1 condition per second for 5 seconds

or

Unravel Stance: Converts 1 condition on you into a boon per second for 5 seconds

Otherwise weaver is extremely fun and brought new life to the old ele playstyle and rotations.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'm honestly wondering, why the Sword 1 abilities are chains at all? It feels really contradictory to the weaver design..

One of the key features is the vastly reduced Attunement swap ICD which thoroughly encourages constantly swapping elements, and I'm really cool with that, there are plenty of enjoyable combos with Sword/Dagger for jumping in and out of combat while throwing around area spells. However, this constant attunement swapping leaves limited desire to stay put and use auto-attacks..

So why? Why does the Sword 1 skills have chains? If I'm not mistaken, the third strike is stronger than the lead up (as is normal) but if there was no chain and they buffed the base ability, sword could be much better position. In particular, Sword 1 Fire should apply burning.

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@Lasiurus.4067 said:Hi everyone.
Here I’m going to make my own analysis on Weaver & Sword efficience, after 1 week of playing it.It’s my own opinion, you may not agree, just tell me in the commentary section what you think about it.

First : Weaver.

The mechanism is just great. It’s hard at the beginning, we were kinda lost with the new 2 attument, but when you starts to get used to this, it becomes pretty cool.It gives us the possibility to make new combos, & the new skill for EACH weapon is just insane.
Traits from Weaver are quite different & give us the possibility to make different build, power oriented (1-2-1), or condition oriented.



But the biggest problem is the rework of Woven Stride(Grand Master #2)This trait was meant to have the ability to deal with condition cleanse, WITHOUT investing in the water line.
 The previous state, purging 1 condition per 0.5s while under Superspeed effect, was a bit overpower, especially for Fresh Air build.
I understand it needed a rework.
But WHY did you then put regeneration on speed to clean condition?

Water Line is the only efficient way to clean condition. That’s a problem for build variety, because in every PvX mode (PvP, WvW), when you cannot deal with friends to purge your conditions, you HAVE to take water.


For build variety, you should make an alternative.

 What about Woven Stride giving 3s Resistance when hit by condition (15s CD) + 1s Resistance when granted speed ?It’s Imo a good way to he efficient (especially with boon duration) but not OP (Boon removal…)

To sum up : Weaver is great unless we take time to get fit on it.
But the only problem is this Grand Master Trait that forces us to run Water, again & again.




Now : Sword.

I Played it in PvE, PvP, WvW.

This weapon, well.It’s kinda disappointing.

  • Autoattacks are REALLY slow, offer low DPS & low condition. Compare to Dagger Air #1, it has about only 50% of its DPS, without a lesser range (130 versus 300 !). Shorter ranger means more risk & should be more rewarding. It’s not. You should increase a bit DPS & mostly gives a bit more condition.

  • Overall DPS & condition are really bad. Dagger Mainhand offer both MORE DPS & MORE CONDITION. For exemple, Fire Breath (Dagger Fire #2) gives 4 stack of fire for 4s with a 5s CD… thats more than Sword Skill #1 + #2 + #3 combined ! Sword was supposed to gives us both Power & condition damage. It’s sad it’s so low, with more risk than dagger.

  • Dual attunment skill, except Lava Skin (Fire/Earth #3), are quite bad, both effect & DPS, especially compared to other weapon (Dagger Dual Skin are way better, 2 Blast)

  • Animation are huge & Skills are mostly really slow to cast, making it easy to dodge.

  • CC is great. You got a stun + Leap from Air #2, a Float from Air/Earth #3. It’s best CC Weapon for a Mainhand Weapon.

  • Survability is the best of all weapon. Thanks to Water #2, best skill of sword. 1.75s evade + 400 back retreat + heal + Water Field + 12s CD. You can easily blast inside thanks to Earth Attunement. Just a great skill. Earth #2 is a 1s evade, nearly instant cast, with a 10s CD. Also great. 


  • Mobility thanks to Air #2 is okay. Perhaps this skill should be instant cast, it would allow great combo & will help the problem of short range skills.

  • Interaction & combos are great. You can blast inside your water field, you have a fire field with Fire #2 (but only 2s thought), ou have 2 leap (Fire #2 is also a leap, occurs at begin of animation) + Air #2. You can easily get Fire Auras.

To sum up : Great weapon to survive, great CC… But terrible DPS. This weapon is a bit like FOCUS. DPS really slow but great survability. Combined with focus, you are unkillable but you will never kill anyone. Combined with Dagger OffHand is great but still lacks of DPS.

Survability is great, most of skills are great. But please, we need a bit more DPS, & bit more condition, to make this great weapon so fun to play in WvW Roaming more rewarding, especially when compared to Dagger/Dagger !I understand it should be no more DPS than Dagger, because it has bigger survivability. But here DPS is, sadly, really low.

Thanks all, if you agree or disagree just say it, & let’s speak about weaver & sword :)


I really like the objective analysis, you suggest buffs while not forgetting the strong points, kudos to you!

I understand it should be no more DPS than Dagger, because it has bigger survivability. But here DPS is, sadly, really low.
This above should be the mantra for both the devs and the ele community....it'd be devastating to lose the sustain of sword for some more dps...
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@Kyon.9735 said:I think Anet's worrying too much about sword auto interaction with Signet of Restoration. Regardless of interaction, 3/4 cast times on both the 2nd and 3rd chains are unreasonable given the low power modifier.

For sure, the interaction with Signet of Restoration is the only logical explanation for the current cast time. ANET is afraid to create another immortal ele like they did at HoT launch.

The concern is valid - nobody in their right minds wants an immortal ele, but the method they have chosen to deal with this is terrible and short sighted.

The problem is that they have added 4 traits that help with survival that are damage soaking traits (all 3rd lines and the Major minor trait), if that is not enough, they have added 3 skills that are designed to make you survive, being 2 damage soakers (Sw Fire and Earth #3 and Earth Resonance) and only one that is designed to work as an evade.

Had they chosen the method that many of the community voiced - survival through dodging, interrupts, mobility, condi application (such as blindness) and something akin to stealth (whichever and however ANET decides to combo for the class), thus not making it a damage sponge, but rather a mobile class that can be shut down with stuns, interrupts, stability, multi hit attacks, etc. this wouldn't have been a problem.

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Probably i'm very wrong (because maybe is hard to achieve), but i can't stop thinking about if a specialization changes your Profession's rol to "distance combat", "mid combat" or a "melee combat" maybe the first minor trait must change your base armor/life. That's (IMHO) should make traits and skills more easy to compare between proffesions and prevent some traits to be a "fix for the class" like this trait in a DPS specialization.

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I love the weaver and sword a lot ! The skills are awesome ! But indeed the damage compared to other classes is really low, hard to land hits as well and it feels like everyone can smell from miles away when you use your CC abilities. I hope they can balance it more because the play style is very satisfying !

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Please don't call Weaver "great" in a thread that is only about sword Weaver. I'm sure sword Weaver is decent to play but Weaver itself, with any Weapon other than Sword is not "great". Unless of course, when fighting a pinata.Also, I don't personally think that sword Weaver is great either, at best it's fun to play but it's about as threatening as the average non-hostile mob (slightly more threatening then ambient creatures)

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@Skugga.5298 said:I love the weaver and sword a lot ! The skills are awesome ! But indeed the damage compared to other classes is really low, hard to land hits as well and it feels like everyone can smell from miles away when you use your CC abilities. I hope they can balance it more because the play style is very satisfying !

Same issue.HP and armor are lowest of all classes (as it should be, it's a mage after all), but damage from melee attacks is so low and slow at the same time...Simply compare thief autoattacks with weaver autoattacks - thief's are not only stronger (312 vs 282 prw) but also MUCH faster (1/4s vs 3/4s). Combine it with a fact, that elementalist can't swap weapon (= range).So, in my experience - weaver can deal with some melee classes with low damage output equipment, but can't do anything against a condi pressure or high burst damage (shields are basically a regeneration on a low armor character, and they are useless when someone hitting you for 3-10k+ with every hit).

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