Wow... Just wow.

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

@"Skotlex.7580" said:Or maybe, now Anet is moving way from "easy instant 25 stacks of might on your own".

For a long time now I've read in these forums that revenant is broken in regards to conditions: when the Meta is power, Revenant becomes top tier, if there are enough condition classes in the Meta, Revenant is useless.

This could be a good step towards reducing how strong the Revenant burst is. Now to only hope there's some buff to condition removal before the meta swings again :)

This would be fine and dandy if Anet didn't nerf weapon damage on Revenant for years and THEN SPECIFICALLY BUFF MIGHT GAIN TO COMPENSATE LATER AFTER WE WEREN'T PERFORMING WELL ANYMORE. So they started to balance Revenant around having 25 stacks of might always and we started performing better. The only difference between then and now is that we have the reworked Sword 4/5 and a few trait reworks that brought us back to meta. But nerfing might across the board for Herald/core is questionable (especially since they ALSO hit the sword autos with a 10% damage decrease) since it essentially moves us further towards where we were at the end of HoT (i.e. not meta with meh might generation and low unboosted damage) and it also directly affects any non-Shiro/Glint/Devastation build (especially condi) by reducing the already lowish might generation that those builds have in comparison.

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:Nope wasn't there to be honest, all the talk of rev being unfinished etc kept me away lol

If you weren't there and don't understand the profession's history then don't make comments like "welcome to thief life" when we literally used to be in the same boat and Rev balance was a meme (and still is in a lot of ways) for ages. Some people literally called us Nerfenant due to the consistent nerfs.Edit: if anything there should be more solidarity between thieves and revenants since the two have been the targets of so many consistent nerfs, but I guess since we essentially fill the same pvp role that will never happen :(

[Shao.7236]

These nerfs do barely anything, I think that people need to realize Revenant can do more than just Herald/Shiro all the time. NOBODY ever plays around Charged Mists which is a powerful trait, same for Song Of The Mists. It's always the easy way out nowadays with what's considered "high" tiers when skill has little to nothing with.

I have been playing various builds/legends with Dwarf as a baseline and it's pretty good when done right, I think people need to understand the concept around Revenant is not being some discount thief with warrior aspects. Explore the damn profession, y'know this is why changes often occur is because preferences make the whole concept stagnant and the devs are gonna stir it up with changes because of the player inability to come with anything else, regardless of the skill ceiling.

Meta is killing this game for as small the population already is.

[Obe.4283]

@"Shao.7236" said:These nerfs do barely anything, I think that people need to realize Revenant can do more than just Herald/Shiro all the time. NOBODY ever plays around Charged Mists which is a powerful trait, same for Song Of The Mists. It's always the easy way out nowadays with what's considered "high" tiers when skill has little to nothing with.

I have been playing various builds/legends with Dwarf as a baseline and it's pretty good when done right, I think people need to understand the concept around Revenant is not being some discount thief with warrior aspects. Explore the kitten profession, y'know this is why changes often occur is because preferences make the whole concept stagnant and the devs are gonna stir it up with changes because of the player inability to come with anything else, regardless of the skill ceiling.

Meta is killing this game for as small the population already is.

Charged Mists adds nothing to glint, an extra evade to shiro if you play around it on typical herald. Extra +20% crit chance with fury is much more useful than that for the role revenant fills in PvP. SoTM is imho only good on condi/heal builds. Both of those rev builds don't really have a place in PvP.

Good on you for playing Jalis, unfortunately in PvP Revenant is actually a discount thief with warrior aspects. Jalis can't tank, Ventari cannot sustain you long enough without significant healing power investment and defensive stats. Mallyx doesn't have the sustain without Runes of Tormenting. (Also lol at condis when there are scrappers.) There's a reason people play Glint+Shiro meta herald. Anet decided to balance rev power damage by linking it with might, so when they nerf might generation and skill damage at the same time they're basically dunking on it from two fronts. No compensation in the form of better sustain either.

In order for people to move away from meta, non-meta has to be at least somewhat close to meta. It's not even near that point, especially in PvP.

But probably don't listen to me, i only play WvW. Where we can play anything.

[Scoobaniec.9561]

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Nope wasn't there to be honest, all the talk of rev being unfinished etc kept me away lol

Nerfenant due to the consistent nerfs.

I remember how i started that meme lmao. Shame it died after a while

[KrHome.1920]

WvW Power Shiro and sPvP Power Shiro are two different worlds now.

Huge differences in terms of might stacking, damage and crit chance. I am really curious what's the justification for that.

Uncalled nerfs for PvP. Still overpowered in WvW.

Thanks for nothing!

/a Reaper player

[otto.5684]

Lol.. I am all for might stacking nerf (even though rev is not the only culprit in here), but Roiling Mists?! The trait has been the same since rev was released 3.5 years ago. Now it is a problem?! Man, devs have been sucking for the last 4 patches. And again, instead of fixing the million broken things they are still tinkering with herald. In 10 years they might get it right.. probably not.

@Aigleborgne.2981 said:

@WraithOfStealth.1624 said:Not to kick rev mains in PvP while they're down, but the nerf to Roiling Mists in PvP is so stupid i couldn't stop laughing.

Seriously, this grandmaster trait is now a joke ! Now it's only 10% more critical hit chance...Righteous Instincts was nerfed to 25%, which was still better than ours, and it provided might.Roiling Mist is now only providing 10% CHC and nothing more. I guess it is time to choose Charged Mist now...Yes yes, I can't compare 2 professions but still, the difference is so huge I can't stop from comparing.

The comparison is not remotely valid. Give guardian 17K base HP and 100% uptime on swiftness and then will talk.

[praqtos.9035]

@otto.5684 said:Lol.. I am all for might stacking nerf (even though rev is not the only culprit in here), but Roiling Mists?! The trait has been the same since rev was released 3.5 years ago. Now it is a problem?!You know thats remind me about blurred frenzy that was left alone since 2k15.Memes aside I dont understand rev panic... Self ez 25 might stack nerf is better than get straight damage nerfs and balance the class based on having 25 might stacks.More over Roiling mists was dropped in favor of song of the mists(equilibrium 2.0) and might from fury was dropped in favor of rapid flow for perma swiftness.I honestly ... dont understand panic at all.they nerfed something rev alrdy dropped... Just played a rev and still nearly the same, just I had not perma 25 might as before .After seeing this@WraithOfStealth.1624 said:Not to kick rev mains in PvP while they're down, but the nerf to Roiling Mists in PvP is so stupid i couldn't stop laughing.Do revs mains think herald was bad? It was crazy . Tho cant be said the same about renegade

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

@praqtos.9035 said:

Memes aside I dont understand rev panic... Self ez 25 might stack nerf is better than get straight damage nerfs and balance the class based on having 25 might stacks.

Wait what? Did you miss the straight damage nerf to the autos? And the drop in crit chance? That directly changes how much reliable DPS a rev can put out.

More over Roiling mists was dropped in favor of song of the mists(equilibrium 2.0) and might from fury was dropped in favor of rapid flow for perma swiftness.I honestly ... dont understand panic at all.they nerfed something rev alrdy dropped... Just played a rev and still nearly the same, just I had not perma 25 might as before .

Also what???? The best Revs in pvp are not running either Song of the Mists or Rapid Flow. Like that's either a hard troll or you're not familiar with the higher levels of competition at all. Sure, maybe some bronze, silver or gold revs are running SotM or RF, but the build that monthly AT winners and higher level competitors are running is Incensed Response + Roiling Mists. Full stop.

[praqtos.9035]

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

@praqtos.9035 said:

Memes aside I dont understand rev panic... Self ez 25 might stack nerf is better than get straight damage nerfs and balance the class based on having 25 might stacks.

Wait what? Did you miss the straight damage nerf to the autos? And the drop in crit chance? That directly changes how much reliable DPS a rev can put out.

10% is not much on autos for my taste. Its not 50% as someone class :joy:You still can maintain a lot of might but for short period of time and not carry it with yourself around, i'm sorry :)

More over Roiling mists was dropped in favor of song of the mists(equilibrium 2.0) and might from fury was dropped in favor of rapid flow for perma swiftness.I honestly ... dont understand panic at all.they nerfed something rev alrdy dropped... Just played a rev and still nearly the same, just I had not perma 25 might as before .

Also what???? The best Revs in pvp are not running either Song of the Mists or Rapid Flow. Like that's either a hard troll or you're not familiar with the higher levels of competition at all. Sure, maybe some silver or gold revs are running SotM or RF, but the build that monthly AT winners and higher level competitors are running is Incensed Response + Roiling Mists. Full stop.

Last time I was seeing Shuriken and few other good revs dueling,TOP2 immortal legend rev as said they use rapid flow/song of the mists instead of LR and Roiling mists. (that was like 3-4 days ago)Probably you are sitting in gold my friend but this tryhards at p3-legend.

[Shao.7236]

@WraithOfStealth.1624 said:

@"Shao.7236" said:These nerfs do barely anything, I think that people need to realize Revenant can do more than just Herald/Shiro all the time. NOBODY ever plays around Charged Mists which is a powerful trait, same for Song Of The Mists. It's always the easy way out nowadays with what's considered "high" tiers when skill has little to nothing with.

I have been playing various builds/legends with Dwarf as a baseline and it's pretty good when done right, I think people need to understand the concept around Revenant is not being some discount thief with warrior aspects. Explore the kitten profession, y'know this is why changes often occur is because preferences make the whole concept stagnant and the devs are gonna stir it up with changes because of the player inability to come with anything else, regardless of the skill ceiling.

Meta is killing this game for as small the population already is.

Charged Mists adds nothing to glint, an extra evade to shiro if you play around it on typical herald. Extra +20% crit chance with fury is much more useful than that for the role revenant fills in PvP. SoTM is imho only good on condi/heal builds. Both of those rev builds don't really have a place in PvP.

Good on you for playing Jalis, unfortunately in PvP Revenant is

actually

a discount thief with warrior aspects. Jalis can't tank, Ventari cannot sustain you long enough without significant healing power investment and defensive stats. Mallyx doesn't have the sustain without Runes of Tormenting. (Also lol at condis when there are scrappers.) There's a reason people play Glint+Shiro meta herald. Anet decided to balance rev power damage by linking it with might, so when they nerf might generation and skill damage at the same time they're basically dunking on it from two fronts. No compensation in the form of better sustain either.

In order for people to move away from meta, non-meta has to be at least

somewhat

close to meta. It's not even near that point, especially in PvP.

But probably don't listen to me, i only play WvW. Where we can play anything.

I can't really agree with much that you said on any of the legends.

The only reason most people play Glint is because they can't manage any mechanics about the Revenant nor do they care to even try which contributes to the majority of complains as to why they think nothing is viable on Revenant. The heal on Glint is extremely good and mitigates any kind of play normally Revenant would have to pull off, for example with Protection on demand if you have enough energy (Hint hint Charged Mists) with Weakness on the first pulse of Element to mitigate a lot of damage shortly, something I don't see happen a lot.

Small niches and details like this are VERY common among the profession which is why most fail to play it which I can understand because having to do good reads and setup stuff is time consuming and things need to be done quickly in a game like this but Revenant is built that way around momentum and isn't going anywhere, considering how Dwarf is and SHOULD be played around Weakness since it can turn any damage into nearly double digits on even the most powerful bursts, so I disagree about it not being tanky.

The Might link was definitely some synergy, but it was mostly due to passive traits granting Fury from to very start to buff it's potency of attacks, not the other way around with Herald having Fury every 3 seconds.

I can go on why and I think every legends are fine but could use some changes in certain aspects which would maybe make them too good which I understand why Anet is not taking the initiative to do them.

[narcx.3570]

@praqtos.9035 said:Memes aside I dont understand rev panic... Self ez 25 might stack nerf is better than get straight damage nerfs and balance the class based on having 25 might stacks.

Are you serious? That's literally what already happened... They nerfed all of Revenant's weapon damage away and then re-compensated it via easy might generation since they're the "boon class" or whatever--this has always been seen as somewhat fair in a PoF world where boon removal/corruption is so abundant. I'm all for them taking away our easy might if they give us back the 50% damage to sword 2 and 80% damage to SotM tho.

But ya, on top of that, the 10% flat sword aa damage is a total meme considering rev's sword cleave was its only REAL way to finish downed foes. (Except for GoD Blindstomp, but that's only for duels and is completely useless in a team fight.) Rev was already the +1/roamer with the weakest downstate-finish... Now it's just that much worse. It's not like you even AA non-downstate foes that much in the first place...

@praqtos.9035 said:Last time I was seeing Shuriken and few other good revs dueling,TOP2 immortal legend rev as said they use rapid flow/song of the mists instead of LR and Roiling mists. (that was like 3-4 days ago)Probably you are sitting in gold my friend but this tryhards at p3-legend.

That's dueling tho...

In the scope of an actual match, pffffttttt... Good luck doing enough damage in a team fight with that build before you get autofocused for being a rev.

[praqtos.9035]

@narcx.3570 said:

@praqtos.9035 said:Memes aside I dont understand rev panic... Self ez 25 might stack nerf is better than get straight damage nerfs and balance the class based on having 25 might stacks.

Are you serious? That's literally what already happened... They nerfed all of Revenant's weapon damage away and then re-compensated it via easy might generation since they're the "boon class" or whatever--this has always been seen as somewhat fair in a PoF world where boon removal/corruption is so abundant. I'm all for them taking away our easy might if they give us back the 50% damage to sword 2 and 80% damage to SotM tho.Are you trying to meme me out? Crann I think... I remember his video about him getting oneshotted with single UA and after corruption he instantly regained all might...SotM is broken on wvw, just like sw2... I stay away from WvW so I dont talk about it at all. But thats prolly fun to instagib people jsut with 2 buttons because we all want easy kills/wins.But ya, on top of that, the 10% flat sword aa damage is a total meme considering rev's sword cleave was its ONLY real way to finish downed foes. (Except for GoD Blindstomp, but that's only for duels and is completely useless in a team fight.) Rev was already the +1/roamer with the weakest downstate-finish... Now it's just that much worse. It's not like you even AA non-downstate foes that much in the first place...Exactly, you arent* AA your enemies anyway...10% ... is not much... Not like I actually support this nerf or agree with.

@praqtos.9035 said:Last time I was seeing Shuriken and few other good revs dueling,TOP2 immortal legend rev as said they use rapid flow/song of the mists instead of LR and Roiling mists. (that was like 3-4 days ago)Probably you are sitting in gold my friend but this tryhards at p3-legend.

That's dueling tho...

In the scope of an actual match, pffffttttt... Good luck doing enough damage in a team fight with that build before you get autofocused for being a rev.That would make more sense to get pure 1x1 focused traits/runes.They run it for swiftness and imitate real game situation as its used to be.That top2 rev used it in actual games, not just duels, asked him about the build as I started to play rev myself. I personally like song of the mists, I dont even know why but this feels better for some reason.My conclusion:Rev was asburdly overperforming, it damage was through the roof and everything I should had to care about is to not being in situation without a breakstun.My sword4 did consistently 7-9.4k damage, sw5 from 5k to 10.6k.Sw3(or sw4) with impossible odds did tremendous amount of damage and secondary (impossible odds) overall stacked damage was about 8-13k depends how many hits were connected. Of course its drained your all shiro energy and you had to manage it.In game shiro blink and sw5 1800 range clap with a slow/chill so this guy cant even use skills back or walk away from it, wont lie, my second hit not always connected if I stepped into a wrong way.Nerfs were needed and self 25 might stacks never been healthy/balanced. Better to nerf it instead of nerfing base values of your skills, dont you agree ?Probably revenant is still good and we will see them in mAT anyway. We will see soon((I'm not against to give revenant/renegade buffs but I dont play it that often to give proper suggestions))

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@Skotlex.7580 said:Now to only hope there's some buff to condition removal before the meta swings again :)

grab corruption > pulsating pestilence and resistance runes.

[Set.7461]

I think NC Soft missed a few guys on their axe grinder.

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

@praqtos.9035 said:

10% is not much on autos for my taste. Its not 50% as someone class :joy:You still can maintain a lot of might but for short period of time and not carry it with yourself around, i'm sorry :)

It's not the 10% on autos that's an issue; it's the complete package. Revenant as a whole lost about 2/5ths to Half of its might uptime. The only might source that didn't get nerfed was from Notoriety and directly from Facet of Nature (or Renegade/Retribution lulz, but who runs those???). That's pretty huge. Yeah you can still maintain 25 for short periods, but that's after you get into combat (you go into combat with less now, too, mind you, so burst damage is lower and our job is +1...). It also encourages spammy gameplay to maintain 25 instead of being smart about your energy usage, because if you're not constantly using legend skills it starts to drop off. Especially with Rapid Flow. Good luck maintaining a consistent 25 without Incensed Response; it's possible, but barely lasts at all. Usually hovers between 18 -22 in my testing.

Oh and lets mention that 10% crit chance loss again, because it brings Revenant down to 86% crit (marauder/leadership) which means Roiling Mists Revs are now losing their 190% Crit Damage modifier just about 3/20ths of the time. Rev has been balanced for 4 years around having access to 96%+ crit. Now all of a sudden that's too much?? Good luck getting that very important Crit Damage with Song of the Mists btw! It brings the Crit Chance down to 76% unless you change Runes (which oh btw reduces boon durations lower AND you lose the important condi clear on elite). That's 1/4th of your attacks falling flat with low damage from weapons that have low power (even lower now with the auto nerf) without might, which, again, has considerably lower uptime now.

So I don't see how you can't see how these are big changes or see how they're important. I haven't even mentioned how it further pigeonholes us into the +1 role and also reduces build diversity further, especially for condi builds (lmao like build diversity even truly exists on revenant in pvp).

Last time I was seeing Shuriken and few other good revs dueling,TOP2 immortal legend rev as said they use rapid flow/song of the mists instead of LR and Roiling mists. (that was like 3-4 days ago)Probably you are sitting in gold my friend but this tryhards at p3-legend.

The next Monthly AT is in 1 week, guess we can revisit this conversation then and see what the top Revenant players are running. The ones from a month ago WERE NOT running Rapid Flow/SotM. At least not any of the high tier ones or ones who won. I mean you can check the receipts yourself they're literally on youtube. Hell, might as well ask @JayAction.9056 what he's running currently since he's #10 on the NA Leaderboard atm as of the time of this posting.

My rating has little to do with what the majority of revenants run or what the meta build is considered to be, so you can take your attempted ad hominems elsewhere because they don't do anything for your argument.

[praqtos.9035]

@"LucianTheAngelic.7054" said:My rating has little to do with what the majority of revenants run or what the meta build is considered to be, so you can take your attempted ad hominems elsewhere because they don't do anything for your argument.Shot back your "silver-gold" argument to you directly. As I asked a really good rev and my friend :)It might not be as good as before because herald SE/sw3 might duration was nerfed as well. So they I wouldnt be surprised to see them change back to it. I'm not aware about NA people but I heard its Incissor clone that play rev

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

@praqtos.9035 said:

@"LucianTheAngelic.7054" said:My rating has little to do with what the majority of revenants run or what the meta build is considered to be, so you can take your attempted ad hominems elsewhere because they don't do anything for your argument.Shot back your "silver-gold" argument to you directly. As I asked a really good rev and my friend :)It might not be as good as before because herald SE/sw3 might duration was nerfed as well. So they I wouldnt be surprised to see them change back to it. I'm not aware about NA people but I heards its incissor clone thats play rev

I was clearly not referring to you as a "silver or gold" revenant if you re-read my statement.

[Vasdamas Anklast.1607]

@KrHome.1920 said:WvW Power Shiro and sPvP Power Shiro are two different worlds now.

Huge differences in terms of might stacking, damage and crit chance. I am really curious what's the justification for that.

Uncalled nerfs for PvP. Still overpowered in WvW.

Thanks for nothing!

/a Reaper player

You are welcome to remove half of my hp with a single shroud AA on WvW, reaper homie.

[ArthurDent.9538]

It doesn't make much sense to me, rev is by far the lowest power DPS class in the game in pve (the only game mode that actually measures this stuff) despite having a huge number of pvp exclusive nerfs/pve exclusive buffs. Yet still people complain about rev damage constantly being too high as if it is the only class that can self stack high might or is the one that can 100-0 targets faster than they can react. Class has been stuck at a +1 roll in pvp for a long time now, if even viable at all, at what point will people be happy with power rev damage? When it can't even +1 efficiently? When they can face tank every damage skill a rev has and just heal it off?

[meri.9187]

Realistically here, this was pretty easy to see coming. After already being nerfed in PvP in late 2016 herald fell out of the meta and was only put back in the meta due to the balance team giving it a ton of steroids allowing ridiculously easy might generation as well as the sword offhand rework (which I'd argue we'd be better without).

Instead of improving the weak points of revenant such as condi cleanse, self sustain, reliance on herald, and any sort of ability to hold a point (goodbye ventari bunker lul), everything was ignored (or outright fundamentally changed/nerfed/deleted*) in favor of giving the class more damage and making it easier and easier to land that damage with sword offhand. And so of course rev got more and more and more damage, coupled with some nerfs to other meta classes, until that damage simply could not be ignored in PvP.

*Some things that have been fundamentally (i.e. not just numbers, enumerating all of the number-wise nerfs would take forever LUL) changed/nerfed/deleted since rev first came out:

Equilibrium (Big F)Impossible OddsPretty much the whole Retribution traitlineSword offhand (goodbye defense, MOAR DAMAGE)Herald F2 (goodbye boons, use it in Shiro for MOAR DAMAGE)Double stab from heraldRadiant Revival

The one good addition to help with boons... Draconic Echo! Can't complain about that trait.

At any rate, I've listed enough of rev's true utility being removed, so everyone here gets the picture if they didn't already. Despite previously being a subpar, unplayed build, sword offhand and all the might generation got buffed to the point that we now had a formerly intricate class design with equilibrium, old ability to flash IO, and the option to run different offhands completely scrapped in favor of a dumbed-down, glorified one-shot bot.

So now it's no wonder that since condi mirage has been hit hard and thus the biggest counter is much less common, heralds are cancering up PvP with the same dumb one-shot spam burst. And it's no wonder that literally everyone else is complaining about getting ganked by two, sometimes even three heralds running the same build on one team. Realistically, good riddance on this sword/sword build. Build it from the ground up. This build is boring to play and boring to face. But seeing Incensed Response reduced to absolutely nothing in PvP, and seeing Roiling Mists go to a flat 10% precision when you have fury? That's a grand total of 210 stats. As a GRANDMASTER MAJOR trait.

Please feast your eyes on the following:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vicious_Quarry

Rangers have access to a trait that gives a flat 10% precision with fury. So we're even. Oh wait, no we're not. When the ranger has fury, they also get 250 ferocity or 16.7% extra crit damage. In addition, if they're below 75% health, their uptime on fury from this trait will be all but 100%. So I was all in favor of this sword/sword one-shot bot build being reworked, but now the balance team has completely destroyed a trait that had always been a staple of revenant in PvP.

Please, if you're going to nerf this build, also pay attention to the fact that there are pretty much no other viable builds for this class that has been stuck in beta since release in 2015. What's a renegade? What's a condi rev? What's a Ventari bunker? Actually, what's a herald, outside of this one build? Maybe pay attention to the fact that only one offhand weapon is ever used. Why not nerf sword offhand (or outright revert the rework) and improve the utility of axe and shield? Why not, in exchange for nerfing might generation, improve herald's generation of other boons that might make it a more self-sufficient class and not just a gank bot? That's thief's job.

The staff and salvation rework was a move in the right direction. This is just a panic move. Give this class an actual identity for once, people.

/endrant

[Justine.6351]

@"ventusthunder.5067" said:Realistically here, this was pretty easy to see coming. After already being nerfed in PvP in late 2016 herald fell out of the meta and was only put back in the meta due to the balance team giving it a ton of steroids allowing ridiculously easy might generation as well as the sword offhand rework (which I'd argue we'd be better without).

Instead of improving the weak points of revenant such as condi cleanse, self sustain, reliance on herald, and any sort of ability to hold a point (goodbye ventari bunker lul), everything was ignored (or outright fundamentally changed/nerfed/deleted*) in favor of giving the class more damage and making it easier and easier to land that damage with sword offhand. And so of course rev got more and more and more damage, coupled with some nerfs to other meta classes, until that damage simply could not be ignored in PvP.

*Some things that have been fundamentally (i.e. not just numbers, enumerating all of the number-wise nerfs would take forever LUL) changed/nerfed/deleted since rev first came out:

Equilibrium (Big F)Impossible OddsPretty much the whole Retribution traitlineSword offhand (goodbye defense, MOAR DAMAGE)Herald F2 (goodbye boons, use it in Shiro for MOAR DAMAGE)Double stab from heraldRadiant Revival

The one good addition to help with boons... Draconic Echo! Can't complain about that trait.

At any rate, I've listed enough of rev's true utility being removed, so everyone here gets the picture if they didn't already. Despite previously being a subpar, unplayed build, sword offhand and all the might generation got buffed to the point that we now had a formerly intricate class design with equilibrium, old ability to flash IO, and the option to run different offhands completely scrapped in favor of a dumbed-down, glorified one-shot bot.

So now it's no wonder that since condi mirage has been hit hard and thus the biggest counter is much less common, heralds are cancering up PvP with the same dumb one-shot spam burst. And it's no wonder that literally everyone else is complaining about getting ganked by two, sometimes even three heralds running the same build on one team. Realistically, good riddance on this sword/sword build. Build it from the ground up. This build is boring to play and boring to face. But seeing Incensed Response reduced to absolutely nothing in PvP, and seeing Roiling Mists go to a flat 10% precision when you have fury? That's a grand total of 210 stats. As a GRANDMASTER MAJOR trait.

Please feast your eyes on the following:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vicious_Quarry

Rangers have access to a trait that gives a flat 10% precision with fury. So we're even. Oh wait, no we're not. When the ranger has fury, they also get 250 ferocity or 16.7% extra crit damage. In addition, if they're below 75% health, their uptime on fury from this trait will be all but 100%. So I was all in favor of this sword/sword one-shot bot build being reworked, but now the balance team has completely destroyed a trait that had always been a staple of revenant in PvP.

Please, if you're going to nerf this build, also pay attention to the fact that there are pretty much no other viable builds for this class that has been stuck in beta since release in 2015. What's a renegade? What's a condi rev? What's a Ventari bunker? Actually, what's a herald, outside of this one build? Maybe pay attention to the fact that only one offhand weapon is ever used. Why not nerf sword offhand (or outright revert the rework) and improve the utility of axe and shield? Why not, in exchange for nerfing might generation, improve herald's generation of other boons that might make it a more self-sufficient class and not just a gank bot? That's thief's job.

The staff and salvation rework was a move in the right direction. This is just a panic move. Give this class an actual identity for once, people.

/endrant

Yes with the nerfs to firebrand support and last years superbuffs to rev damage it was coming to a head.

and lol, "MOAR DAMAGE MOAR GOOD !"

Thank god I don't spvp. The 50% damage sotm sucks bad enough there.

[Alatar.7364]

I saw thread like this comming so I just popped in Rev forums and you didn't not disappoint;How the hell could anyone and I mean absolutely anyone think that Rev did not deserve dmg nerf? Heck I even saw one guy here claiming Rev already had low burst dmg?!? You people sure we play the same game?You seem to be desperately stuck in pre-2017 November mindset.

[Raknar.4735]

@"Alatar.7364" said:I saw thread like this comming so I just popped in Rev forums and you didn't not disappoint;How the hell could anyone and I mean absolutely anyone think that Rev did not deserve dmg nerf? Heck I even saw one guy here claiming Rev already had low burst dmg?!? You people sure we play the same game?You seem to be desperately stuck in pre-2017 November mindset.

I'm actually fine with the dmg nerfs, though it would be nice to finally see some compensation buffs for other playstyles that aren't Glint/Shiro Power Herald.Well, I don't SPvP, since I'm not a fan of conquest/capture-point based gameplay, so this patch didn't really hit me.

But I still want to say: it's kinda funny to see a Thief talking about "stuck mindsets", while at the same time complaining about the swipe nerf last patch.I think it was a well deserved change to add to the "class fantasy" of a melee thief.Granted, I don't really know about balance in SPvP, nor do I care about it, I'm just stating this opinion to spite you, seeing as you are doing the same to Revs without adding anything to the discussion aside from a subtle "you don't know how to play the game".

[Alatar.7364]

@"Raknar.4735" said:Well, I don't SPvP, since I'm not a fan of conquest/capture-point based gameplay, so this patch didn't really hit me.

But I still want to say: it's kinda funny to see a Thief talking about "stuck mindsets", while at the same time complaining about the swipe nerf last patch.I think it was a well deserved change to add to the "class fantasy" of a melee thief.Granted, I don't really know about balance in SPvP, nor do I care about it, I'm just stating this opinion to spite you, seeing as you are doing the same to Revs without adding anything to the discussion aside from a subtle "you don't know how to play the game".

Don't remember saying "you don't know how to play the game" anywhere or even implying it.However as you say you don't play PvP nor do you know anything about its balance, so I can see why you can't realise that Swipe change is something inherently different from few trait nerfs.I am not adding anything to Rev discussion because there is literally nothing to discuss, the nerfs were deserved.But I guess let's compare a drastic change to the most crucial core mechanic to adjustment of a overperforming trait and call it a day ;)