Wow... Just wow.

[Shao.7236]

@Edge.8724 said:

I always liked the suggested theme of Herald which looked to some kind of boon support (but it kinda failed).

But yeah, I should play Core Revenant more.

Well I mean, can always use Dwarf/Shiro while traited with Herald if not for Glint/Shiro. There's a lot of sick combinations to acquire better sustain to cleave more easily with one sword. Devastation is not mandatory either if you can play around with Weakness (Which Facet of Elements have + Burst of Strength for 25% more damage, add Forceful Persistence for 38% if switching to Shiro with Impossible Odds.) on Retribution for damage and sustain and with that you can have Charged Mists to go ham more often with Impossible Odds and Vengeful Hammers which with Hardened Persistence you'll find yourself a bit more bunky but that's to be expected from using shield.

[Scoobaniec.9561]

@Shao.7236 said:

@Edge.8724 said:As a small suggestion from me since I do play Revenant a lot, but mostly in PvE though... But I use Sword/Shield there and with Shiro, Phase Traversal replaces my shadowstep I had on Sword 5. But the problem with this is the energy cost...

But anyway, I did play Revenant in PvP before and I stopped PvP with him because I don't like to be stuck on a role of +1 all the time. Revenant have really poor sustain in PvP and full burst build was the only way to play with any kind of viability.

Now, more nerf for Revenant dammage but nothing to compensate for it huh? So if I understand correctly we don't deserve to have dammage and/or sustain we only deserve none?Hmm....

I suggest you to stop using Herald and try something else with core. Dwarf/Shiro on Inv/Ret/Dev has more than enough sustain and damage for you without being so reliant on might to do any damage.

@Arkantos.7460 said:wow herald not even able to get 25 mightstacks with 3 traits and sigill .... kitten kitten on marauder in tpvpI better use Jalis shiro on Renegade and get 25 mightstacks with only 1 trait XDand dont come up with that kitten heal of glint ... every noob knows how to counter infused lights

Finally someone gets it and yet that's not even the full picture.

Traits are nice for sustain but Jalis is shit tho. Hes all about having the upkeep and nothing else

[Shao.7236]

@Scoobaniec.9561 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@Edge.8724 said:As a small suggestion from me since I do play Revenant a lot, but mostly in PvE though... But I use Sword/Shield there and with Shiro, Phase Traversal replaces my shadowstep I had on Sword 5. But the problem with this is the energy cost...

But anyway, I did play Revenant in PvP before and I stopped PvP with him because I don't like to be stuck on a role of +1 all the time. Revenant have really poor sustain in PvP and full burst build was the only way to play with any kind of viability.

Now, more nerf for Revenant dammage but nothing to compensate for it huh? So if I understand correctly we don't deserve to have dammage and/or sustain we only deserve none?Hmm....

I suggest you to stop using Herald and try something else with core. Dwarf/Shiro on Inv/Ret/Dev has more than enough sustain and damage for you without being so reliant on might to do any damage.

@Arkantos.7460 said:wow herald not even able to get 25 mightstacks with 3 traits and sigill .... kitten kitten on marauder in tpvpI better use Jalis shiro on Renegade and get 25 mightstacks with only 1 trait XDand dont come up with that kitten heal of glint ... every noob knows how to counter infused lights

Finally someone gets it and yet that's not even the full picture.

Traits are nice for sustain but Jalis is kitten tho. Hes all about having the upkeep and nothing else

Have to disagree, especially with the new skill. Hitting Inspiring Reinforcement for the Weakness on someone with F2 makes you basically immortal to power spikes with added stability without the need of Vengeful Hammers, then you can still safely add another RotG along if necessary before having to use Upkeep, in fact Upkeep is just a way to make sure you'll get to proc Charged Mists, the same way F2 can just fix a quick mistake to make it easier afterwards.

[Maddog.3716]

@Shao.7236 said:

@Scoobaniec.9561 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@Edge.8724 said:As a small suggestion from me since I do play Revenant a lot, but mostly in PvE though... But I use Sword/Shield there and with Shiro, Phase Traversal replaces my shadowstep I had on Sword 5. But the problem with this is the energy cost...

But anyway, I did play Revenant in PvP before and I stopped PvP with him because I don't like to be stuck on a role of +1 all the time. Revenant have really poor sustain in PvP and full burst build was the only way to play with any kind of viability.

Now, more nerf for Revenant dammage but nothing to compensate for it huh? So if I understand correctly we don't deserve to have dammage and/or sustain we only deserve none?Hmm....

I suggest you to stop using Herald and try something else with core. Dwarf/Shiro on Inv/Ret/Dev has more than enough sustain and damage for you without being so reliant on might to do any damage.

@Arkantos.7460 said:wow herald not even able to get 25 mightstacks with 3 traits and sigill .... kitten kitten on marauder in tpvpI better use Jalis shiro on Renegade and get 25 mightstacks with only 1 trait XDand dont come up with that kitten heal of glint ... every noob knows how to counter infused lights

Finally someone gets it and yet that's not even the full picture.

Traits are nice for sustain but Jalis is kitten tho. Hes all about having the upkeep and nothing else

Have to disagree, especially with the new skill. Hitting Inspiring Reinforcement for the Weakness on someone with F2 makes you basically immortal to power spikes with added stability without the need of Vengeful Hammers, then you can still safely add another RotG along if necessary before having to use Upkeep, in fact Upkeep is just a way to make sure you'll get to proc Charged Mists, the same way F2 can just fix a quick mistake to make it easier afterwards.

Friend I am glad for your success, but if all that you say would have the potential, it would have been on mettabatle even with an assessment 3. There are already deleted all possible meme builds. Other people aren't stupid and I think everyone's already tried something unusual.As it was once said here - © Why would I fight this meme build, I'd better run away.It's the illusion of choice legends. IMHO the other classes a lot more variation without legends. Only thief stands next to the revenant in variation and the thief's problem with variation is precisely because of the revenant. Because rev took away some of the thief's potential.Wait a minute though, even the thief in some builds change your style of play. I'm not saying they're great, but they're good.

[Scoobaniec.9561]

@Shao.7236 said:

@Scoobaniec.9561 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@Edge.8724 said:As a small suggestion from me since I do play Revenant a lot, but mostly in PvE though... But I use Sword/Shield there and with Shiro, Phase Traversal replaces my shadowstep I had on Sword 5. But the problem with this is the energy cost...

But anyway, I did play Revenant in PvP before and I stopped PvP with him because I don't like to be stuck on a role of +1 all the time. Revenant have really poor sustain in PvP and full burst build was the only way to play with any kind of viability.

Now, more nerf for Revenant dammage but nothing to compensate for it huh? So if I understand correctly we don't deserve to have dammage and/or sustain we only deserve none?Hmm....

I suggest you to stop using Herald and try something else with core. Dwarf/Shiro on Inv/Ret/Dev has more than enough sustain and damage for you without being so reliant on might to do any damage.

@Arkantos.7460 said:wow herald not even able to get 25 mightstacks with 3 traits and sigill .... kitten kitten on marauder in tpvpI better use Jalis shiro on Renegade and get 25 mightstacks with only 1 trait XDand dont come up with that kitten heal of glint ... every noob knows how to counter infused lights

Finally someone gets it and yet that's not even the full picture.

Traits are nice for sustain but Jalis is kitten tho. Hes all about having the upkeep and nothing else

Have to disagree, especially with the new skill. Hitting Inspiring Reinforcement for the Weakness on someone with F2 makes you basically immortal to power spikes with added stability without the need of Vengeful Hammers, then you can still safely add another RotG along if necessary before having to use Upkeep, in fact Upkeep is just a way to make sure you'll get to proc Charged Mists, the same way F2 can just fix a quick mistake to make it easier afterwards.

People are not bots. Weakness is easy to clear and the stability field itself is tiny and doesnt really fit even capture points. My point stands still, Jalis is a upkeep bot to make most use of it sustain with triggering the hammer+steady trait. Outside of that hes useless. And i played core rev for long time. Mallyx with torment runes has more sustain than Jalis.

[Buran.3796]

@Arkantos.7460 said:wow herald not even able to get 25 mightstacks with 3 traits and sigill .... kitten kitten on marauder in tpvpI better use Jalis shiro on Renegade and get 25 mightstacks with only 1 trait XDand dont come up with that kitten heal of glint ... every noob knows how to counter infused lights

Wasn't even using marauder before the patch, the extra hp was almost useless and the increased damage from berserker amulet was nice (Herald isn't a Guardian fooling around with 11k Hp). You say that every noob knows how to counter Infused Lights but seems that most of them can't avoid Elemental Blast and Chaotic Release, whereas keeping yourself away from Vengeful Hammers seems really easy. If Jalis is a thing, why teams are stacking 2 or more power Heralds in the Automated Tournaments?

[praqtos.9035]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@narcx.3570 said:What a crazy world we live in when a patch hits and the only thing in it is a bunch of pvp/wvw REVENANT nerfs... Of all the classes to tone down.

Yes, the build that has been S tier and on every MAT winning team for a year now, always has multiple showings in the top 10 in ranked, tons of representation in the top 100, and BenP has confirmed that teams with revs in ranked have a 72% higher win rate than teams without rev. Yes. That build got nerfed. What is the world coming too.

You lot don't know what real nerfs feel like.Do you mean 50-70% damage/duration/cd increase nerfs? Where have I seen them....Asked multiple revenants and from playing myself ... Its still broken . Barely anything changed.Heard rumors herald getting more nerfs... ?

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

@Shao.7236 said:

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

Any Fury benefits mentioned from your post applies to Renegade as well. I was mainly focused on how people wants to camp Herald while Shiro is just the sustain part which does not do great justice to those traits to begin with, the "perma swiftness" is mostly true if you don't care about being 3- upkeep constantly which feels wasted when you can cycle around utility better on Renegade to be versatile without losing the momentum of the fight, Rising Momentum is generally wasted because you'll never have enough Upkeep viably in use and do "superspeed" which takes -10 Upkeep but also given by Impossible odds which is an Upkeep skill itself. Making the whole ordeal useless.

You missed my point which is that Herald CERTAINLY does NOT have to just camp Facet of Darkness to maintain perma fury. It has to activate it every now and then to compliment all the other sources of Fury that exist for Rev already. ANd perhaps bad revenants only camp Herald, but to say people "only use Shiro for the sustain" is a VAST oversimplification and NOT AT ALL how high tier Herald's play. Also what?? you have to be -3 upkeep for perma swiftness? Since when? it's a -1 upkeep and with leadership runes the swiftness has a fairly long duration. Also Rising Momentum stacks with swiftness, so you don't need -10 to achieve high in combat movement with Glint's upkeeps. Sure, it's not always "full superspeed" but it's certainly in between swiftness -> Superspeed a vast majority of the time, depending on playstyle, which is incredibly helpful when kiting enemies. Having access to higher-than-swiftness movement speed outside of Shiro is really useful.

Rising Momentum does NOT stack with swiftness, it's on the wiki itself. Do inform yourself before claiming such, -3 is for Fury and Swiftness by the way, don't tell me that's not it.

People play whatever seems to be meta because the lack of creativity is astonishingly bad in this game lately, very often actual skill doesn't matter and all we get taught about is stats. It's no wonder people always think Revenant is inferior yet no one tries to get good with the actual mechanics of the profession.

Herald synergy was good when Renegade wasn't a thing. Now? Not so great compared it.

It says it on the wiki, sure, but it also says directly on the wiki right underneath it, from the Anet patch notes when Rising Momentum was added, that “The movement speed granted by this trait stacks with all other movement speed increases.” Now it certainly doesn’t stack outside combat, but it stacks inside combat, up to a maximum movement speed of superspeed. So either Anet is wrong, the wiki is wrong, or both are unclear.

Also -3 isn’t an issue since you only need to spend your energy on weapon skills while in Glint, especially with Draconic Echo since you have to spend less time in the facets to get perma boons. I never have energy issues when playing Herald. Maybe it’s just not your playstyle and that’s perfectly fine.

EDIT: Just tested Rising Momentum with -6 upkeep + swiftness while in combat. -6 gives +30% movement speed and is also slower than swiftness, so theoretically when my energy runs out and the Rising Momentum buff goes away I shouldn't have any change of speed since "swiftness is the higher modifier and therefore being used," but this actually ISN'T what happens at all. No, in fact there is a noticeable loss of speed when losing Rising Momentum at -6 upkeep is removed WHILE having swiftness. Again, if swiftness is the only modifier being used and it doesn't stack, then there should be no loss of speed at -6 upkeep since that's only 30% movement speed, but there is therefore Rising Momentum DOES stack with swiftness while in combat

[Buran.3796]

@praqtos.9035 said:

Asked multiple revenants and from playing myself ... Its still broken . Barely anything changed.Heard rumors herald getting more nerfs... ?

Rev can be competitive or not, but the best PvP build never changes. They can't nerf power Rev until leaves the scene (happened before), but you won't see other Rev builds filling any role in PvP. Not bothered with incoming nerfs at all...

[praqtos.9035]

@Buran.3796 said:

@praqtos.9035 said:

Asked multiple revenants and from playing myself ... Its still broken . Barely anything changed.Heard rumors herald getting more nerfs... ?

Rev can be competitive or not, but the best PvP build never changes. They can't nerf power Rev until leaves the scene (happened before), but you won't see other Rev builds filling any role in PvP. Not bothered with incoming nerfs at all...:(I wonder when they make staff4 QoL change...at least reduce its cast time by the half... and do something with renegade. Tried it out and dont really understand what I'm supposed to do :D

[DeceiverX.8361]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Lmao welcome to thief life every patch. Yet soulbeast and left untouched. Honestly this game woulda been better off everything was left as is at release and if the balance team never touched anything ever.

Nah, late 2013 or so would have been ideal I think (I think this was just after cele ele nerfs?)

People whined about SA Deadeye, but literally the same thing existed back at launch with Assassin's Signet on a 50% damage modifier and SA giving infinite stealth, initiative, and never-ending 14 stacks of might. Mug could crit. 15 Mugs and 35k backstabs were silly times and stupid unfun to play against. A lot of specs had stuff like that at launch.

Basically just after the cele ele nerfs was the best this game's ever been.

[Safandula.8723]

Lol. Nerfs were justified, herald is busted, everyone above gold can say it(outside of the one's that suck at it).As someone said, thief and Mesmer got nerfed enough, and it's time to nerf the best roamer down a bit

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

you still hit for over 10k with CoR and are complaining?

[Baudrillard.4612]

Brothers and sisters, Revenants,Can someone who already tried that new reality after nerfs told me: what it feels like? Does that new patch mean that we hit the floor one more time? Or things aren't that bad and rev is still viable in sPvP?

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:you still hit for over 10k with CoR and are complaining?

This is a pvp thread honey, take your wvw saltiness elsewhere and learn to read context

[narcx.3570]

@Baudrillard.4612 said:Brothers and sisters, Revenants,Can someone who already tried that new reality after nerfs told me: what it feels like? Does that new patch mean that we hit the floor one more time? Or things aren't that bad and rev is still viable in sPvP?

It's not THAAAAAAAT bad...

It doesn't really change your play, since there's still only one really viable build/way to play Rev in sPvP--the only things that really felt feel different is that you have smaller windows to kill people due to less might duration on your pre/quick stacked from SE/IR (then having to lean into Notoriety big time, which can leave you low on energy for escapes if the fight fasts longer than a few seconds), and you're going to be a bit squishier from adjusting the precision levels in your build. Two runesets that I've been experimenting with to make up some precision are Eagle and Lyssa. Eagle is pretty decent for just straight up ganking people, and Lyssa is a bit of compromise from Leadership (slight loss of toughness/hp/power/ferocity for a big gain of Precision all while keeping your condition management active--although you lose 15% boon duration, which is somewhat yikes given the aforementioned nerfs.)

Rev's not like bottom the the barrel like it was when PoF came out... But like, I could see where it's a bit harder to justify playing a burst class like rev in solo queue if you multiclass, when you could play a something like holo, powerchrono, teef, or trollbeast and still be able to blow people up without all the added weaknesses you accept from playing Rev. Rev's probably just as strong duo-queuing tho, I can't speak directly to that tho as I only solo.

Might be different at the very top top or in gold or silver or whatever... I'm a filthy casual and only speak from like a 1650 perspective these days.

[Baudrillard.4612]

@narcx.3570 said:

It's not THAAAAAAAT bad...

Well, thank you) So we are falling again and again to the same problem: there are no variety for us (but that's usual) and even with only one viable build we are taking the fourth place after the better specs. It seems that the only salvation may be complete redesign of the class. Anet couldn't answer the questions: Who is revenant? And what role should he fulfill?

Without clear answers we won't see any bright future =(