Aggro range increased... again...

[Junior.3928]

@"Steve The Cynic.3217" said:and ends a second or so after the last condition on you clears provided you aren't still taking damage from other sources.

Are you certain? I don't particularly mind the distance thing, but I always wondered how this mechanic works because there's been more than one occasion where I was out of the fight, not taking any damage for longer periods than just "a second or so" and the game still considered me as "in combat".

[Steve The Cynic.3217]

@Junior.3928 said:

@"Steve The Cynic.3217" said:and ends a second or so after the last condition on you clears provided you aren't still taking damage from other sources.

Are you certain? I don't particularly mind the distance thing, but I always wondered how this mechanic works because there's been more than one occasion where I was out of the fight, not taking any damage for longer periods than just "a second or so" and the game still considered me as "in combat".

No, I'm not certain, or not any more, anyway. Back in the day, I'd have said, "Yes, I'm certain," but more recently I've been seeing instances on the newer maps where I'm in combat with no damage and no condition markers (no limping from Crippled, etc.), and it going on for a while. (Most often on a powertrap DH with GS / Scep+Torch, but on others as well.) There are reports of problems on one particular thing, I think Renegade with its new hero (the Charr one), where you can be there for minutes with nothing going on and the combat state not clearing.

[Linken.6345]

@Steve The Cynic.3217 said:

@Junior.3928 said:

@Steve The Cynic.3217 said:and ends a second or so after the last condition on you clears provided you aren't still taking damage from other sources.

Are you certain? I don't particularly mind the distance thing, but I always wondered how this mechanic works because there's been more than one occasion where I was out of the fight, not taking any damage for longer periods than just "a second or so" and the game still considered me as "in combat".

No, I'm not certain, or not any more, anyway. Back in the day, I'd have said, "Yes, I'm certain," but more recently I've been seeing instances on the newer maps where I'm in combat with no damage and no condition markers (no limping from Crippled, etc.), and it going on for a while. (Most often on a powertrap DH with GS / Scep+Torch, but on others as well.) There are reports of problems on one particular thing, I think Renegade with its new hero (the Charr one), where you can be there for minutes with nothing going on and the combat state not clearing.

And your sure none of your ttraps are still damaging monsters keeping you in combat?

[Steve The Cynic.3217]

@Linken.6345 said:

@Steve The Cynic.3217 said:

@Junior.3928 said:

@Steve The Cynic.3217 said:and ends a second or so after the last condition on you clears provided you aren't still taking damage from other sources.

Are you certain? I don't particularly mind the distance thing, but I always wondered how this mechanic works because there's been more than one occasion where I was out of the fight, not taking any damage for longer periods than just "a second or so" and the game still considered me as "in combat".

No, I'm not certain, or not any more, anyway. Back in the day, I'd have said, "Yes, I'm certain," but more recently I've been seeing instances on the newer maps where I'm in combat with no damage and no condition markers (no limping from Crippled, etc.), and it going on for a while. (Most often on a powertrap DH with GS / Scep+Torch, but on others as well.) There are reports of problems on one particular thing, I think Renegade with its new hero (the Charr one), where you can be there for minutes with nothing going on and the combat state not clearing.

And your sure none of your ttraps are still damaging monsters keeping you in combat?

Yup, I'm sure. To say nothing of "on others as well" meaning "on other characters using other specs", and situations where everything I was fighting is dead, or where I was trying to do something non-combat and got jumped by a patrolling monster and jumped off a cliff without even laying traps.

[Strider Pj.2193]

@Mewcifer.5198 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:Wait wait.... so you want to wander around without having to deal with enemies?

Pick your battles?

Maybe you could try WvW or.. better yet, EOTM to explore without having to fight anything...

It’s... an unfriendly zone. It’s not a city or town...

Way to completely misrepresent the opposing argument there, pal.

Was responding to the OP not yours. Which is why I didn’t quote anyone. Hope you have a good day.

[Junior.3928]

@"Steve The Cynic.3217" said:No, I'm not certain, or not any more, anyway. Back in the day, I'd have said, "Yes, I'm certain," but more recently I've been seeing instances on the newer maps where I'm in combat with no damage and no condition markers (no limping from Crippled, etc.), and it going on for a while. (Most often on a powertrap DH with GS / Scep+Torch, but on others as well.) There are reports of problems on one particular thing, I think Renegade with its new hero (the Charr one), where you can be there for minutes with nothing going on and the combat state not clearing.

So it's not just me then lol, don't mind the distance thing so much as being in combat for no reason. Also had on couple occasions where an npc turns around mid fight and "walks it off" back to full hp, BUT keeps me in combat state anyway.

[Zaklex.6308]

@Einlanzer.1627 said:~snip~

If the goal is to create more challenge, it's a really poor way to do that, and it's one reason we need more dungeons. Open world zones should be enjoyable to traverse and hang out in, with only certain events getting as frenetic as the entirety of PoF is. It can't be like that with stupidly high aggro ranges. It really amazes me they haven't already addressed this as there were a ton of complaints about it in the months following PoF's release. I definitely think there are some higher-ups in GW2's design team that just really don't know what they're doing.

What if I told you I could find a dozen places in PoF to just stop and admire the scenery within 15 minutes of logging in, and not worry about aggroing anything and getting attacked...it's not really that hard, if people had really bothered to traverse the entirety of PoF they would know that there are plenty of places to just stop and look...and I don't mean around the Waypoints, but out in the Open World(without resorting to using cliffs or other places unreachable without a mount).> @"Irreverent.3594" said:

That's why nowadays more and more i find HoT maps (which i hated oh so much before mounts) much better to hang out in with mounts than PoF. Not counting PoF performance issues (Thunderhead Peaks the ultimate of them all. Metas are like 5fps slideshow) and that god awful screen contrast turned to 200% in all maps (almost something like "beauty" that is Draconis Mons from HoT episodes) with no way to turn it off.

Have you ever been in a brightly lit desert(depends on the desert) area or mountainous(snowy) area...yeah, contrast is off the charts, especially if you have "white" sand and lots of snow(like Thunderhead Peaks), so it's actually a little more realistic than it would normally be.

[Naxos.2503]

I've always found the aggro annoying since Path of fire's start, mostly because it greatly diminishes the mobility of mounts (when you're pelted on all side by out of view mobs, you generally tend to get dismounted if you're not fast enough). But then again, that probably was the Reason for that range increase, to mitigate the effect mounts have on moving through maps without combat.

I do agree that it's rather annoying since it's hard to find a spot that isn't inevitably going to turn you into a pincushion, and I often dont have much time to think on a route to get to somewhere without being attacked. Killing most enemies is trivial (except for djinns, but they're not exactly everywhere either).

On the one hand, I do agree it's a bother, but on the other, I think it's used a mount balancing, in which case, changing it is not easily done.

[Mewcifer.5198]

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Mewcifer.5198 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:Wait wait.... so you want to wander around without having to deal with enemies?

Pick your battles?

Maybe you could try WvW or.. better yet, EOTM to explore without having to fight anything...

It’s... an unfriendly zone. It’s not a city or town...

Way to completely misrepresent the opposing argument there, pal.

Was responding to the OP not yours. Which is why I didn’t quote anyone. Hope you have a good day.

I didn't take it as your replying to me. My statement still stands.

[BlueJin.4127]

@"Skotlex.7580" said:Due to mounts, there needs be an increased sight range or overworld enemies will just be for decoration.

The problem lies in being stuck "forever" in combat because enemies keep coming from far away.

I can think of two possible solutions to this issue:

1. spread out enemies more in maps, if the space between packs of enemies is greater than 1200, then it becomes much easier to mount back up as it'll be harder to drag in more unwanted enemies.
2. Split sight ranges, so mobs will sight you while in a Mount at 1200 range, but if you are on foot, that range is reduced to 900.

Any other ideas? Anet can't just blanket reduce aggro ranges due to mounts, so some other solution is needed.

I disagree that mounts require longer aggro range. Playing pre-PoF with mounts every day, I still fight plenty. I can’t simply run past everything and expect to map complete without fighting anything.

As for reducing enemy density, it’s not a bad idea. I map completed Sandswept Isles and Jahai Buffs for the first time these past few days and I was pleasantly surprised. The aggro range is still annoying 900, but due to the low density of enemies, I rarely encountered a chain of aggro after aggro (though this may be because I now rarely gather regular nodes in PoF and later maps). Just dispatch the initially aggroed enemies, and I could go on my way. Some parts were densely populated, but these were usually heart areas where I would be fighting anyways, so it made no difference. Domain of Kourna was a bit more annoying, but not as annoying as main PoF maps or Istan. Still, I disagree with long aggro range. 600 is just fine for me.

[BlueJin.4127]

@Strider Pj.2193 said:Was responding to the OP not yours. Which is why I didn’t quote anyone. Hope you have a good day.

You did completely misinterpret my posts.

[mauried.5608]

Look at this from a logic perspective.Mounts are much bigger than players, so they are visible to monsters from much further away.Its only reasonable that the aggro range is going to be much further.A compromise solution would be to reduce the aggro range if players are on foot .

[Tommo Chocolate.5870]

@BlueJin.4127 said:

@"Skotlex.7580" said:Due to mounts, there needs be an increased sight range or overworld enemies will just be for decoration.

The problem lies in being stuck "forever" in combat because enemies keep coming from far away.

I can think of two possible solutions to this issue:

1. spread out enemies more in maps, if the space between packs of enemies is greater than 1200, then it becomes much easier to mount back up as it'll be harder to drag in more unwanted enemies.
2. Split sight ranges, so mobs will sight you while in a Mount at 1200 range, but if you are on foot, that range is reduced to 900.

Any other ideas? Anet can't just blanket reduce aggro ranges due to mounts, so some other solution is needed.

I disagree that mounts require longer aggro range. Playing pre-PoF with mounts every day, I still fight plenty. I can’t simply run past everything and expect to map complete without fighting anything.

Even on the original core maps? Where do you get dismounted? My experience is that to complete those maps I only need to fight for hero challenges and hearts.

[Strider Pj.2193]

@BlueJin.4127 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:Was responding to the OP not yours. Which is why I didn’t quote anyone. Hope you have a good day.

You did completely misinterpret my posts.

I really didn’t. I get you are talking about ‘trash mobs’ which, in effect you note aren’t hard. That is what you feel I was referencing about the difficulty.

Is the Aggro range annoying? Yes.

Does it make finishing the map a chore? Yes.

Would some interpret that as ‘difficulty’ of a sort? Yes.

My terminology may have been different than yours, however, my point stands: the map presents a different challenge which prevents people from ‘taking a break’ in the middle of a hostile zone. I see no problem with that.

Maybe they don’t want the map ‘farmed’. Maybe they want it played...

[BlueJin.4127]

@Strider Pj.2193 said:I really didn’t.

You really did. It doesn’t matter what excuse you post later. Your excuse is completely different from your initial post.

@Strider Pj.2193 said:Wait wait.... so you want to wander around without having to deal with enemies?

Pick your battles?

Maybe you could try WvW or.. better yet, EOTM to explore without having to fight anything...

It’s... an unfriendly zone. It’s not a city or town...

I never said I want to explore without fighting anything. I/we are talking about constant aggro.

Not wanting constant aggro =/= not wanting to fight anything.

Don’t put words into people’s mouths to insult them just because you can’t handle different opinions.

[Einlanzer.1627]

@mindcircus.1506 said:

@Einlanzer.1627 said:I agree this is a problem and I think it's a big part of the reason why PoF maps were quickly abandoned.

Since the change in rewards this week, the maps have been pretty much packed.So no... people's inability to adjust to the PoF aggro mechanics had nothing to do with it.

That doesn't actually mean anything. Of course players are going to flood into maps with recently buffed rewards and it doesn't mean there's nothing wrong with the POF map mechanics.

[kratan.4619]

I have not even noticed the agro range in Dragonfall, i usually do not even try to stop to look around until I get to a clearer spot where I can do that unmolested. Why would someone even try within the agro range of a bunch of mobs?

[Strider Pj.2193]

But yet you ignored my explanation. GG.

[Tyranni.9780]

Ok, As a new player I'm trying really hard here to get a handle on what's in store for me if/when I ever make it to the higher levels.

Am I understanding this right? It seems that the words "casual" and "open world" have a different meaning here than in other games? The game is promoted as being casual in the open world, (and players have assured me that min/maxing & power gaming isn't a requirement). It's what attracted me to this game and I'm finding it's somewhat true in the newbie 1-15 areas but even there it's almost too much at times and starts getting tedious after a while. In the 15-25 areas, which I've just started getting into, even more-so.

Some days, depending on my mood, when I see the "there's an event in the area" pop-up, I'm like "sigh, of course there is, there always is." Seems like the minute I set foot in an area I'm confronted with another "event" when maybe all I wanted to do is look at what a quest npc is selling, or gather resources, or get somewhere or something. Finish that event or run the other way, doesn't matter. Move off a ways and there's another one. Even in a small village or outpost with vendors & such, you think "ahh a breather." But nope, an event drops on your head and the village/outpost is attacked almost as soon as you enter and try to look at your inventory or something. (don't get me wrong, I like the events, just not non-stop events)

And what I'm seeing here seems to contradict that whole "this is a game for casuals" thing. I'm seeing that what I'm experiencing now is not even how it will continue to be, it gets even worse. I see comments like the one saying Oh there's at least a dozen places on one map where you can stop to breath. A dozen places? On an entire map? And don't stop to look around until you find one of those spots. That being the case, it seems to me that these maps are just huge, glorified dungeons/raids and not "casual open worlds" at all. Non-stop combat with a few "safe spots" if you're smart and observant.

I'm not criticizing, it's just that I think I may have been under a misconception of what this game is about and I'm trying to understand. And I'm not saying it's wrong, just not for everybody and maybe not for me, I don't really know yet. It's looking to me, at this point that my experiences in the lowbie areas are going to keep ramping up and up and up until it really is just large, glorified dungeons/raids designed to be like an open world, rather than actual "casual" open world, with non-stop combat even between events, and with city hubs/bank areas being the only places to really breath. Is this how it is, or am I misunderstanding the overall theme I'm seeing here?

[Aeolus.3615]

Agro range seams fine...

I have been kicked out of mount 2 or 3 times but that’s my fault that didn’t evaluated well the path and distance/agro.

[kharmin.7683]

Caveat: this is just my personal observation and experience....

Before getting to this map, I was concerned having read this thread about the aggro radius. I worried that I would struggle to enjoy the new content and was not looking forward to it. Having since completed this chapter and started well on my (casual) way to completing all of the skyscale collection stuff (which, IMO, is more than should have been required), I found that aggro radius to be fairly acceptable. Unlike other maps with similar radii, I felt that Dragonfall's mobs were less dense which made the aggro less annoying for me. Sure, I would still draw enemies in, but I have been able to dispatch them without having another group decide to cross the map to engage me.

I would still ask the developers to consider the aggro radius of groups going forward and the impact that they have on the more casual of us players. This thread ought to be a point of focus for them. Again, just for consideration -- I'm not asking for wholesale changes.

That's my $0.02 anyway, fwiw

[TheGrimm.5624]

@"Skotlex.7580" said:Due to mounts, there needs be an increased sight range or overworld enemies will just be for decoration.

The problem lies in being stuck "forever" in combat because enemies keep coming from far away.

I can think of two possible solutions to this issue:

1. spread out enemies more in maps, if the space between packs of enemies is greater than 1200, then it becomes much easier to mount back up as it'll be harder to drag in more unwanted enemies.
2. Split sight ranges, so mobs will sight you while in a Mount at 1200 range, but if you are on foot, that range is reduced to 900.

Any other ideas? Anet can't just blanket reduce aggro ranges due to mounts, so some other solution is needed.

Reduce the time for you to be considered in combat. As others have said sometimes you can't even see what has you in combat.

[Cuks.8241]

I think a mix would be in order. I am no expert on this so maybe this is already in the game anyway.Basically most mobs should have "normal" 600 range. It is really annoying that you have to kill 5 Jaracandas just to mine a node. Then there should be more aggressive mobs that for example guard certain areas, enemy patrols, ambushes. Maybe even call for backup if you pose a threat.This would also make the game feel more alive.I'm not sure that Dragonfall mobs have bigger range though. I actually found the map fun to explore and didn't notice unusual aggro from mobs. If anything it felt better than original PoF maps where the map is so full of some long range annoying mobs that you really can't dismount.

[Nagasadri.4527]

The people talking about making the game too easy need to re-think what they think difficulty is.

I'd rather have every mob on the map be replaced by packs of 3 elites and have them have a 300 aggro radius so i only have to fight one pack at a time and know i can remount and leave afterwards than aggro 4 mobs i'll just 2 shot before getting aggroed by another 4 mobs through a wall and have to find where the attacks are coming from, run in range to attack them, 2-shot them again and- Oh, by moving in range i've aggroed another 2 trash mobs. It's an endless cycle and i can't mount up (or even switch mounts) until it's over.

You don't gain anything of value killing these mobs either.

I was doing the collections for the Skyscale the other day, and i noticed it was faster to just jump off a cliff or in lava/quicksand, die and teleport to my next waypoint than it was to kill the 15 or so mobs i had to kill before the game would let me mount/teleport. Just think about that for a second.

Forcing me to hunt down a dozen trash mob who probably would have a hard time killing me even if i was afk every time i try to move is a huge waste of my time, not a challenge. It's not difficulty, it's tedium.

If you want to make the open world more difficult to make players more involved in what they are doing, i'm all for it, but NOT LIKE THIS. Mobs you will invariably defeat by mashing 1 or even letting your pets do the work IS NOT MAKING ME MORE INVOLVED. It's getting me PISSED.

[Vethaera.6319]

Ah, I noticed the dates on the thread and wondered what resurrected it.

I first noticed this sort of aggro range years ago in Bloodstone Fen. As soon as you spot a White Mantle Knight, it's coming for you. It can see through walls. It can see through rocks. It can see through hills. And as soon as it spots YOU, it tells two friends. And they tell two friends. And THEY tell two friends.

Just run away. If you fight them, you will be fighting them forever.