Aggro range increased... again...

[Worlds.7530]

YES agree and we need some no enemy space in POF or HOT. when i run around on the POF map the mob is too much and stay everything on the area (above mountain or JP) that make me very annoy.

[Ayrilana.1396]

There’s plenty of “no enemy space” on all of the maps.

[Westenev.5289]

I've honestly never noticed the agro range. Then again, I've never had the inclination to rest near enemy encampments without making at least some effort to hide.

[Llethander.3972]

I don't mind it. Feels more realistic.

[Gehenna.3625]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:There’s plenty of “no enemy space” on all of the maps.No there's not.@Llethander.3972 said:I don't mind it. Feels more realistic.There is nothing realistic about mob spacing and aggro ranges in MMOs. If it feels realistic to you then that's your personal illusion...mind you, that's fair enough, but other people are more concerned with how tedious some things are and for those people, myself included, less tedium is more important than increased realism. It's fantasy game after all and if it's realism you want, we should also start discussing the range on longbows and rifles etc.

And that's an extremely important point for this topic because if you want the aggro range bigger for realism, then surely ranged weapons should have a much more realistic range as well. Just for comparison, longbows have an effective range of about 180 meters / 200 yards in real life. In GW2 it's about 9 times the range of the range of melee weapons. For example the longbow is 1200 units and an axe 130. That puts the longbow range around 18 meters / 20 yards.

Really, preferences will differ but to me I'll do almost anything to avoid combat while traveling because it's just boring, makes everything take longer and doesn't really have any benefits. That and its repetitiousness makes it all highly tedious for me and therefore not fun.

[Einlanzer.1627]

I honestly can't believe they haven't fixed this yet. The aggro range is probably the main reason people avoid PoF content and there's no good reason for it because that content is otherwise gold.

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

really people? you get upset by aggro range? They had to increase it to at least somewhat mitigate the speed advantage of mounts - and if you don't just afk/slack it isn't a problem at all.

If you get upset by aggro range, what next? Some dyes don't look good on all armor sets? Gems actually cost money? Not every class has access to the same weapons?

[thepenmonster.3621]

@Gehenna.3625 said:For example the longbow is 1200 units and an axe 130. That puts the longbow range around 18 meters / 20 yards.

Did someone do the maths for all of this? Did they figure out how fast the Commander runs as well?

[Tiilimon.6094]

I think the aggro range is so high to encourage upgrading mounts, learning to use their abilities in clever ways and planning your routes to avoid getting into combat or losing it quickly. It also gives more reason to work for those flying mounts, they are a very noticeable qol increase for general exploration and gathering.

[Gehenna.3625]

@thepenmonster.3621 said:

@Gehenna.3625 said:For example the longbow is 1200 units and an axe 130. That puts the longbow range around 18 meters / 20 yards.

Did someone do the maths for all of this? Did they figure out how fast the Commander runs as well?The in game distance units are known. 130 for melee weapons and 1200 for most long range weapons being the standard ones.In real life think about extending your arms and an axe or sword. So for me 2 meters is a fair distance to take for that.That means 2 meters is the equivalent of 130 units and since 9x130=1170 (which is almost 1200) I simply multiplied the 2 meters by 9 and that's 18 meters or 20 yards.

So not 100% precise but definitely a good indication of how far longbows shoot compared to melee weapons in the game and when you know how far a longbow can actually shoot in real life, the in game longbows are honestly pathetic. In fact the normal maximum range for shortbows in real life is 50-150 years depending on the bow. And the in game longbows don't even reach half of that range, whereas it should be able to reach 180-400 yards depending on the longbow.

Now, it should be understood that for game purposes those distances are mad and it should be understood that for game purposes therefore the devs have to take many liberties that are not realistic. I mean the same goes for the sniper rifle in SWTOR for example which can't shoot farther than a pistol in real life if you do the comparison. And because it's a game it's fine that it's not realistic. My point is that people shouldn't ask for realism in distances in games like this and the math is just to give an indication how distances make zero sense compared to real life but have a point inside the game.

As for aggro range it's completely silly as it is. They can see you coming from much farther away than the aggro range. I mean you can see them, why wouldn't they see you? Again realism makes no sense there. Aggro range has a function that is not about realism and can be used in different ways. First of all it's the range where you enter into combat. You get so close they can see who you are and feel threatened by you and therefore go into combat. That has to happen at some point. But the complaint is more about how it's used simply as an obstacles, a hindrance. It's not about challenge so much as it is a way for the devs to ensure your travels are regularly interrupted or you have to find paths to circumvent them which keeps you busy that way. So it's all about the time it costs you. However, there is a fine line between keeping people busy and annoying or frustrating them. The threshold for this is not the same for everyone of course. And particularly the newer maps can be gorgeous but being able to stand around and take in the scenery is not really something that is supported by the patrolling mobs or events that spawn left and right.

What is key to me though with regards to interactions is that combat with regular mobs is neither interesting nor rewarding. Also fighting tougher mobs like veteran mobs isn't really more rewarding but does take a lot longer than a regular mob. How many times have I killed Champions or World Bosses with meaningless loot? Pretty much always. So why engage? Sure, when it's a group effort that adds to it. Then killing a world boss can be fun just for it being a group thing. And I know that some people might enjoy simple mindless slaughter. That's ok with me, but for me doing highly repetitious things without a purpose has no meaning and therefore I don't enjoy it much...especially when I can't move around without it being thrown at me constantly. Now, I've become fairly adept at dodging combat, either by preventing it or by being able to just run through or away from aggro. But to me that should tell you something. When people rather avoid combat then what's the value of that? I mean people who want to fight will look for it themselves and others will appreciate the choice.

Doesn't mean I don't think it should ever happen and there could be some ambush places on maps for example where the unsuspecting player gets, well, ambushed but all in moderation or it becomes annoying again. And let it make sense. It's perfectly fine for example for Svanir to have ambushes prepared at certain locations but simply increasing aggro ranges to annoy players is not a good solution. Besides, I think they should look more into why people are doing their best to avoid combat and solve that instead of simply forcing those boring, non-rewarding combat encounters on people. That's just how I see it.

[Llethander.3972]

@Gehenna.3625 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:There’s plenty of “no enemy space” on all of the maps.No there's not.@Llethander.3972 said:I don't mind it. Feels more realistic.There is nothing realistic about mob spacing and aggro ranges in MMOs. If it feels realistic to you then that's your personal illusion...mind you, that's fair enough, but other people are more concerned with how tedious some things are and for those people, myself included, less tedium is more important than increased realism. It's fantasy game after all and if it's realism you want, we should also start discussing the range on longbows and rifles etc.

And that's an extremely important point for this topic because if you want the aggro range bigger for realism, then surely ranged weapons should have a much more realistic range as well. Just for comparison, longbows have an effective range of about 180 meters / 200 yards in real life. In GW2 it's about 9 times the range of the range of melee weapons. For example the longbow is 1200 units and an axe 130. That puts the longbow range around 18 meters / 20 yards.

Really, preferences will differ but to me I'll do almost anything to avoid combat while traveling because it's just boring, makes everything take longer and doesn't really have any benefits. That and its repetitiousness makes it all highly tedious for me and therefore not fun.

I meant it feels more realistic in that if I can see the enemy they can see me. They're my enemy. Of course they're going to try to kill me.

Still doesn't bother me.

[Gehenna.3625]

@Llethander.3972 said:

@Gehenna.3625 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:There’s plenty of “no enemy space” on all of the maps.No there's not.@Llethander.3972 said:I don't mind it. Feels more realistic.There is nothing realistic about mob spacing and aggro ranges in MMOs. If it feels realistic to you then that's your personal illusion...mind you, that's fair enough, but other people are more concerned with how tedious some things are and for those people, myself included, less tedium is more important than increased realism. It's fantasy game after all and if it's realism you want, we should also start discussing the range on longbows and rifles etc.

And that's an extremely important point for this topic because if you want the aggro range bigger for realism, then surely ranged weapons should have a much more realistic range as well. Just for comparison, longbows have an effective range of about 180 meters / 200 yards in real life. In GW2 it's about 9 times the range of the range of melee weapons. For example the longbow is 1200 units and an axe 130. That puts the longbow range around 18 meters / 20 yards.

Really, preferences will differ but to me I'll do almost anything to avoid combat while traveling because it's just boring, makes everything take longer and doesn't really have any benefits. That and its repetitiousness makes it all highly tedious for me and therefore not fun.

I meant it feels more realistic in that if I can see the enemy they can see me. They're my enemy. Of course they're going to try to kill me.Sure, but my point is that they can see you from much farther as you can and you'd normally pull half the map if you want to really make it realistic. And of course realistically ranged weapons should shoot much farther as well but they don't. So for me increased aggro should realistically also come with a range increase for ranged weapons.Still doesn't bother me.Which is fair enough of course, but it does annoy others, myself included, because of what it really represents...not realism but just making things take longer for players in a way that's annoying because it's repetitive, boring and unrewarding.

[battledrone.8315]

@Llethander.3972 said:

@Gehenna.3625 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:There’s plenty of “no enemy space” on all of the maps.No there's not.@Llethander.3972 said:I don't mind it. Feels more realistic.There is nothing realistic about mob spacing and aggro ranges in MMOs. If it feels realistic to you then that's your personal illusion...mind you, that's fair enough, but other people are more concerned with how tedious some things are and for those people, myself included, less tedium is more important than increased realism. It's fantasy game after all and if it's realism you want, we should also start discussing the range on longbows and rifles etc.

And that's an extremely important point for this topic because if you want the aggro range bigger for realism, then surely ranged weapons should have a much more realistic range as well. Just for comparison, longbows have an effective range of about 180 meters / 200 yards in real life. In GW2 it's about 9 times the range of the range of melee weapons. For example the longbow is 1200 units and an axe 130. That puts the longbow range around 18 meters / 20 yards.

Really, preferences will differ but to me I'll do almost anything to avoid combat while traveling because it's just boring, makes everything take longer and doesn't really have any benefits. That and its repetitiousness makes it all highly tedious for me and therefore not fun.

I meant it feels more realistic in that if I can see the enemy they can see me. They're my enemy. Of course they're going to try to kill me.

Still doesn't bother me.

in reality, when you kill someone, then they dont respawn 30 seconds later in the same spot. and in pof you can get aggro from enemies that clearly CANT see youthis is content padding of the most annoying kind

[Friday.7864]

I got killed by a wurm I didn't even get to see.I fight something else and suddenly from who knows where a wurm starts hitting me hard and I actually die because I was already low on HP.Was just lying there on the ground for a few seconds like:

[Bullwyf.5680]

I am totally with the OP on this. I returned to GW2 a week ago and have been trying to progress my lvl 80 character. I now remember why I quit in the first place. Seven years ago when I last played, Orr had ridiculous aggro range and was just silly - but not this bad! These PoF zones are impossible to get around in without pulling aggro from everything within rendering distance. They are out even out of ranged attack distance! Raptor gets whacked and I have to run towards the danged mob just to be able to shoot it with my rifle so I can close the distance and melee it? I mean, come on now....seriously? That just seems sadistic imho.

[AliamRationem.5172]

@Tiilimon.6094 said:I think the aggro range is so high to encourage upgrading mounts, learning to use their abilities in clever ways and planning your routes to avoid getting into combat or losing it quickly. It also gives more reason to work for those flying mounts, they are a very noticeable qol increase for general exploration and gathering.

While a logical explanation, the gameplay is not improved by it. It's annoying, not challenging. As others have noticed, HoT enemies are generally more dangerous, but they don't attack from a mile away!

[Blude.6812]

Anet uses aggro range for no other reason than just to slow the player down to the point it is nothing more than aggravating. It's a cheap trick.

[Windu The Forbidden One.60]

It makes exploration very tedious I agree.It makes sense if you are in the middle of a warzone, but if you are just walking on a road in a rural area, you should not be attacked constantly.

[battledrone.8315]

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Tiilimon.6094 said:I think the aggro range is so high to encourage upgrading mounts, learning to use their abilities in clever ways and planning your routes to avoid getting into combat or losing it quickly. It also gives more reason to work for those flying mounts, they are a very noticeable qol increase for general exploration and gathering.

While a logical explanation, the gameplay is not improved by it. It's annoying, not challenging. As others have noticed, HoT enemies are generally more dangerous, but they don't attack from a mile away!

its not a gear grind...its a MOUNT grind, so they technically didnt break their own promisesdifferent name, same purpose.

[aspirine.6852]

I just finished some collections in Jahai bluffs, and during collections I need to do more than just run around. I sometimes cant find the things I am looking for so you go for a guide or screenshot of others. But you need to be so careful since you are attacked every single part of the map. Doesnt matter if you are running, or mounted. Even the skyscale is a target of perfect aiming anti-air warfare from the ground. This is more than irritating for me.

[mindcircus.1506]

@"Tyranni.9780" said:Ok, As a new player I'm trying really hard here to get a handle on what's in store for me if/when I ever make it to the higher levels.

Am I understanding this right? It seems that the words "casual" and "open world" have a different meaning here than in other games? The game is promoted as being casual in the open world, (and players have assured me that min/maxing & power gaming isn't a requirement).

The OW game can certainly be enjoyed without min-maxing. As can the entire story, the dungeons and the first couple of tiers of Fractals. One of the popular streamers, over the last few days proved that even the raids can be done with a heavily limited and substandard team composition.What you are seeing here is an argument to make it even easier than it already is. It's a heap of false rhetoric designed to steer the narrative to force a change by the developers.It's a series of inaccurate complaints by players who refuse to adapt to new challenges without the ability to outgear them as other MMOs offer.Don't be confused, the playerbase confusing their own low skill-cap with bad design is pretty standard fare on these forums.

[AliamRationem.5172]

@mindcircus.1506 said:

@"Tyranni.9780" said:Ok, As a new player I'm trying really hard here to get a handle on what's in store for me if/when I ever make it to the higher levels.

Am I understanding this right? It seems that the words "casual" and "open world" have a different meaning here than in other games? The game is promoted as being casual in the open world, (and players have assured me that min/maxing & power gaming isn't a requirement).

The OW game can certainly be enjoyed without min-maxing. As can the entire story, the dungeons and the first couple of tiers of Fractals. One of the popular streamers, over the last few days proved that even the raids can be done with a heavily limited and substandard team composition.What you are seeing here is an argument to make it even easier than it already is. It's a heap of false rhetoric designed to steer the narrative to force a change by the developers.It's a series of inaccurate complaints by players who refuse to adapt to new challenges without the ability to outgear them as other MMOs offer.Don't be confused, the playerbase confusing their own low skill-cap with bad design is pretty standard fare on these forums.

I agree with part of this. Min/maxing is not necessary in open world play.

The second part is laughable. The complaint is annoying aggro range and having to fight every mob within a square mile whenever you stop to pick a flower. What does that have to do with dumbing the game down or making it less challenging? Who fights open world trash for the "challenge"?

I rank plat in PvP. I duel and win vs. top 100 players. I'm over rank 1600 in WvW strictly via roaming. In open world I solo group events, champions, even legendary bosses. But you know what? Open world trash is just too much for me!

Yeah, that makes sense...

[mindcircus.1506]

@AliamRationem.5172 said:I rank plat in PvP. I duel and win vs. top 100 players. I'm over rank 1600 in WvW strictly via roaming. In open world I solo group events, champions, even legendary bosses.

All this and you still don't understand how to properly manage aggro to get on your mount?You could have learned in the time it took you to flex.

[AliamRationem.5172]

@mindcircus.1506 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:I rank plat in PvP. I duel and win vs. top 100 players. I'm over rank 1600 in WvW strictly via roaming. In open world I solo group events, champions, even legendary bosses.

All this and you still don't understand how to properly manage aggro to get on your mount?You could have learned in the time it took you to flex.

So, nothing to say regarding the issue, which again is aggro range and not aggro management? Just want to stick with all that nonsense about false rhetoric coming from people who can't learn how to play? Okay. You do you, boo boo!

[battledrone.8315]

@mindcircus.1506 said:

@"Tyranni.9780" said:Ok, As a new player I'm trying really hard here to get a handle on what's in store for me if/when I ever make it to the higher levels.

Am I understanding this right? It seems that the words "casual" and "open world" have a different meaning here than in other games? The game is promoted as being casual in the open world, (and players have assured me that min/maxing & power gaming isn't a requirement).

The OW game can certainly be enjoyed without min-maxing. As can the entire story, the dungeons and the first couple of tiers of Fractals. One of the popular streamers, over the last few days proved that even the raids can be done with a heavily limited and substandard team composition.What you are seeing here is an argument to make it even easier than it already is. It's a heap of false rhetoric designed to steer the narrative to force a change by the developers.It's a series of inaccurate complaints by players who refuse to adapt to new challenges without the ability to outgear them as other MMOs offer.Don't be confused, the playerbase confusing their own low skill-cap with bad design is pretty standard fare on these forums.

in other words: dont change the product, change the consumer. good luck with that. lets hope they dont run out of consumers.