The "Weapon" Vlast refers to during The Sacrifice is not the Spear

[mexay.3902]

In Crystalline Memories, Vlast talks about a "weapon". He says it has the power to "change the shape the world" and that it was created "so that mortals could do the work of dragons".

It's assume by the player character and team that this weapon Balthazar seeks is the Dragonsblood Spear. The Spear is destroyed without a great deal of ceremony and never mentioned again.

Now, either this is just incredibly poor writing or the weapon being referenced is absolutely not the Spear. It is my thought that the weapon is in fact the Staff of the Mists.

As far as we are aware, the Dragonsblood Spear has absolutely no ability to "change the shape of the world" nor "do the work of dragons". It specifically was designed to combat Kralkatorrik. That's it. The Staff of the Mists however, might.

According the Vissh Rakissh in The Cold Touch of the Past;

Vissh RakisshThe Staff of the Mists contains great power, and allows the wielder to bend the fabric of reality.

The quest occurs just north of The Lair of the Forgotten in GW1 days.

In the following quest, The Hallowed Point, Buuran (the previous spirit "guardian" of the Staff) states:

BuuranLong ago, the Staff of the Mists and the Scepter of Orr were given to the great nations of the world as protection. Predictably, those who wielded their power were corrupted. Terrible horrors were unleashed upon the lands once guarded by their benevolent power. The gods themselves were forced to intervene. They struck down both rulers, sealed the scepters within their tombs, and guarded them with powerful magic. With the Staff of the Mists released into the world again, I fear that the forces of evil will not stop until they possess it. Our only choice is to destroy the scepter.

The Staff of the Mists is clearly extremely powerful. He mentions unleashing "terrible horrors" and says that the "Gods were forced to intervene" and seal the Staff away.

Now, with all that in mind, let's look at what Vlast said;

VlastTo hold the weapon is to hold the fate of Tyria in your hands - the power to change the shape of the world. Potent enough to fell the Elder Dragons. It's might should not be taken lightly. It was created so mortals could do the work of dragons, of our line. To combat cataclysmic power and prevent the destruction of all life.

Vlast is talking about a weapon that can change the shape of the world, is extremely powerful and do the work of dragons. Compare this to what the Staff of the Mists is said to be capable of. Bending reality, creating horrors and it's extremely powerful. Bending reality and changing the shape of the world sounds pretty similar to me. The work of dragons is a bit vague, but I take this to mean, in a sense, the dragon's "corruption". The Staff of the Mists was used to create "horros", and I'd definitely say that accurately describes what the Dragons create.

Add this to the fact that the staff is located in very, very close proximity to where all these events are taking place and I think you have a compelling case.

The only problem is that the Staff was "destroyed", by throwing it into the Hallowed Point, a pit into the abyss. If you assume the Staff was never really "destroyed" by the player character, I think we may have a reasonable theory.

Would love to hear feedback on this.

[Thalador.4218]

Interesting theory; one that seems to fit Vlast's description on multiple levels. And even the one 'discrediting' argument that it was destroyed at the Hallowed Point can be cast aside easily by saying it was just lost instead of destroyed. After all, they are on one hell of a retcon-spree, so something as dubious as the fate of the Staff of the Mists wouldn't cause that much of an issue if changed.

On a side-note, before the plot started going downhill into Predictability Vale, I was hoping that the weapon would be the Ancient Weapon or something similar to it. But now that I checked it on the wiki I was saddened to read that it had already been recovered by the Priory and is now stored in their special collections archives.

[mexay.3902]

@Thalador.4218 said:The one 'discrediting' argument that it was destroyed at the Hallowed Point can be cast aside easily by saying it was just lost instead of destroyed.

That's more or less more thoughts exactly. I honestly wouldn't mind them retconning this one since it actually makes for a more interesting story than "lol oops we broke the spear!" and the whole scene of destroying it was really poorly done if it was meant to be this "big thing".

@Thalador.4218 said:On a side-note, before the plot started going downhill into Predictability Vale, I was hoping that the weapon would be the Ancient Weapon or something similar to it.

Yeah, I thought of that too. I didn't know the priory had found it. Glad they at least remember it.

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

250 years ago, the Hallowed Point abyss was truly an abyss, but now with the advent of gliding and teleportation, we can go down to the bottom and find the staff again :)

[Danikat.8537]

I thought he was referring to Sohothin

[Gorgaan Peaudesang.8324]

The interesting part about the weapon is that Glint forbid Vlast to destroy it, whatever it is.

[draxynnic.3719]

The Scepter of Orr is possibly a likelier possibility - we don't know how the Scepter of Orr got teleported out of the volcano, but it could have been Glint. One of its effects was also to influence Energy, which could mean that it could be used to manipulate magic in some fashion on a large scale.

[Ashur.7648]

@draxynnic.3719 said:The Scepter of Orr is possibly a likelier possibility - we don't know how the Scepter of Orr got teleported out of the volcano, but it could have been Glint. One of its effects was also to influence Energy, which could mean that it could be used to manipulate magic in some fashion on a large scale.

Livia doesn't seem to have it anymore though. Wonder what happened to it. At least she is still young, maybe even immortal. That seems to confirm the power of the scepter.

[JayMack.8295]

I don't think it's that she no longer has it, it's more that she's kept it somewhere safe so no-one can take it and use it for nefarious purposes or against the crown. Carrying something like that around is going to draw attention to you and that's not what Livia's been about.

[mexay.3902]

@draxynnic.3719 said:The Scepter of Orr is possibly a likelier possibility - we don't know how the Scepter of Orr got teleported out of the volcano, but it could have been Glint. One of its effects was also to influence Energy, which could mean that it could be used to manipulate magic in some fashion on a large scale.

But it could never really "change the shape of the world". That's why I thought of the Staff of the Mists. It's explicitly described to bend reality.

[Feanor.2358]

@draxynnic.3719 said:The Scepter of Orr is possibly a likelier possibility - we don't know how the Scepter of Orr got teleported out of the volcano, but it could have been Glint. One of its effects was also to influence Energy, which could mean that it could be used to manipulate magic in some fashion on a large scale.

Or it could refer to both of them. Suppose they were created to work in tandem and we never saw that because their power corrupted their wielders.

I fully agree with the OP though, the weapon mentioned was vague enough so it should mean something beside the spear, which doesn't even match the description.

[Rognik.2579]

First off... Dude, spoilers! Sure, nothing major you couldn't have learned before the patch, but still!

Second, I agree that it's not the Spear. While killing Kralkatorrik could certainly change the world, we've had this sort of shortsightedness before. Whatever weapon Vlast meant, we haven't seen it yet.

It's definitely not the Scepter if Orr. Livia's been holding onto that for the last 2 centuries, and would probably have died without its magic constantly renewing itself on her. It could be the Staff of the Mists, as any number of creatures could have rescued it in the intervening time. Until we see it shattered, I'm not ruling anything out.

Could it be some other weapon not yet mentioned? I'm going to place my bet on that. Can't guess at what, but it's my personal hope. Plus, we haven't seen Vlast's lair, and I doubt he's been hanging out in Hosho in between his Branded and Forged raids. Ww find that, we find the weapon.

[Thalador.4218]

Has anyone found anything remotely alluding to the Hallowed Point in the Poisoned Outcrops region of the Desolation? A couple of hours ago I went there and skimmed around as much as I could, trying to locate the place from memory, but still came up short unfortunately. If there was just a legit hint to the Point, it could mean they actually remembered the Staff of the Mists (one of the most mysterious and fascinating questlines from Nightfall), and Mexay's theory would be all the closer to being proven correct.

Also, something else that just came to my mind regarding the "Weapon." I may not have paid enough attention to the more sublime details, but in the Facing the Truth: Sanctum step Kormir says something about putting back together that which was shattered. I remember I hoped it was the actual Weapon, but then it was just MOAR exposition in Kesho and then the 'get rekt' moment from Balthaddon. Was there anything in the story that was shattered and needed to be put back together - and actually was put back together by the end of it? If not, could it be the "Weapon" after all? Or was it just a cryptic hint at fixing the imbalance of the world? Or Kormir meant putting back a Elona together that was shattered by Joko's reign?

Edit: if she was speaking of the real Weapon after all, and it is shattered, that could also tie in nicely to the notion that it is the Staff of the Mists. After all, it probably got damaged after being thrown into the abyss.

[Gorgaan Peaudesang.8324]

Vlast said that the weapon is in the "shadow of the prophet" (we assumed he referred to Glint's Lair) and that Aurene needs to learn how to unlock them - both.

So the weapon itself is, or was, locked.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

I've also doubted the Dragonsblood Spear to be the weapon Vlast spoke of. Despite the fact that it cannot fell multiple Elder Dragons or reshape the world, it hardly gave mortals the ability to do what dragons could do. It just allowed the slaying one one Elder Dragon.

The Staff of the Mists, however, was not on my mind of thought. It makes sense, except for the fact we supposedly destroyed it. The Scepter of Orr could instead work - and we don't know what happened to it after Livia experimented with it, either. The Scepter of Orr controlled the spiritual while the Staff of the Mists controlled the physical (which is ironic given their names, one would think something named after the Mists would be spiritual); both could be said to be doing the work of dragons.

Sohothin and Magdaer are other options, but neither would be in the "shadow of the prophet". Unless the shadow of the prophet refers to Rytlock and his revenant abilities to channel Glint.

@JayMack.8295 said:I don't think it's that she no longer has it, it's more that she's kept it somewhere safe so no-one can take it and use it for nefarious purposes or against the crown. Carrying something like that around is going to draw attention to you and that's not what Livia's been about.

It was outright told to us by devs she only had it "for a time" and that by the events of Sea of Sorrows she no longer had the Scepter of Orr.

@Thalador.4218 said:Has anyone found anything remotely alluding to the Hallowed Point in the Poisoned Outcrops region of the Desolation? A couple of hours ago I went there and skimmed around as much as I could, trying to locate the place from memory, but still came up short unfortunately. If there was just a legit hint to the Point, it could mean they actually remembered the Staff of the Mists (one of the most mysterious and fascinating questlines from Nightfall), and Mexay's theory would be all the closer to being proven correct.

The map overlaps with where the Hallowed Point was, based on that_shaman's historical map, but I haven't looked to see if there's a reference to it in-game. Will make a note to check today when I log on.

@Thalador.4218 said:Also, something else that just came to my mind regarding the "Weapon." I may not have paid enough attention to the more sublime details, but in the Facing the Truth: Sanctum step Kormir says something about putting back together that which was shattered. I remember I hoped it was the actual Weapon, but then it was just MOAR exposition in Kesho and then the 'get rekt' moment from Balthaddon. Was there anything in the story that was shattered and needed to be put back together - and actually was put back together by the end of it? If not, could it be the "Weapon" after all? Or was it just a cryptic hint at fixing the imbalance of the world? Or Kormir meant putting back a Elona together that was shattered by Joko's reign?

I figured she was speaking about the world and how the balance is broken because we killed Zhaitan and Mordremoth.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

So I scoured through the area, could not find anything referencing the Hallowed Point unfortunately. Stayed in the Lair of the Forgotten for a while to see if there would be events or ambient dialogue heading there - nothing. Only thing of any interest is a vista right on top of where that_shaman's map has the Hallowed Point, and a collection event for Order of Shadows dead drop cairns.

Rather disappointing there.

[Inc.4753]

IMO that_shaman's historical map has the PoI on exactly the correct place, determined by comparing the GW1 and GW2 maps and the sulfur ravines. Although it seems there is nothing to be found regarding the Staff, I also don't see a reason why Hallowed Point would be a special point capable of destroying the Staff. It could easily be that the Staff survived and Joko or one of his followers found it (the awakened have a camp at the other side of the ravine). Given that Joko seems to have been set up for LW4, hopefully we will get some clues in a few months.

[Zaklex.6308]

Personal opinion, I don't think the "weapon" is a weapon at all, in the sense that it isn't a living breathing creature....perhaps it's something inside Aurene already and that is why she needs to unlock it?

[maxwelgm.4315]

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:I've also doubted the Dragonsblood Spear to be the weapon Vlast spoke of. Despite the fact that it cannot fell multiple Elder Dragons or reshape the world, it hardly gave mortals the ability to do what dragons could do. It just allowed the slaying one one Elder Dragon.

The Staff of the Mists, however, was not on my mind of thought. It makes sense, except for the fact we supposedly destroyed it. The Scepter of Orr could instead work - and we don't know what happened to it after Livia experimented with it, either. The Scepter of Orr controlled the spiritual while the Staff of the Mists controlled the physical (which is ironic given their names, one would think something named after the Mists would be spiritual); both could be said to be doing the work of dragons.

Sohothin and Magdaer are other options, but neither would be in the "shadow of the prophet". Unless the shadow of the prophet refers to Rytlock and his revenant abilities to channel Glint.

@JayMack.8295 said:I don't think it's that she no longer has it, it's more that she's kept it somewhere safe so no-one can take it and use it for nefarious purposes or against the crown. Carrying something like that around is going to draw attention to you and that's not what Livia's been about.

It was outright told to us by devs she only had it "for a time" and that by the events of Sea of Sorrows she no longer had the Scepter of Orr.

@Thalador.4218 said:Has anyone found anything remotely alluding to the Hallowed Point in the Poisoned Outcrops region of the Desolation? A couple of hours ago I went there and skimmed around as much as I could, trying to locate the place from memory, but still came up short unfortunately. If there was just a legit hint to the Point, it could mean they actually remembered the Staff of the Mists (one of the most mysterious and fascinating questlines from Nightfall), and Mexay's theory would be all the closer to being proven correct.

The map overlaps with where the Hallowed Point was, based on that_shaman's historical map, but I haven't looked to see if there's a reference to it in-game. Will make a note to check today when I log on.

@Thalador.4218 said:Also, something else that just came to my mind regarding the "Weapon." I may not have paid enough attention to the more sublime details, but in the Facing the Truth: Sanctum step Kormir says something about putting back together that which was shattered. I remember I hoped it was the actual Weapon, but then it was just MOAR exposition in Kesho and then the 'get rekt' moment from Balthaddon. Was there anything in the story that was shattered and needed to be put back together - and actually was put back together by the end of it? If not, could it be the "Weapon" after all? Or was it just a cryptic hint at fixing the imbalance of the world? Or Kormir meant putting back a Elona together that was shattered by Joko's reign?

I figured she was speaking about the world and how the balance is broken because we killed Zhaitan and Mordremoth.

On a small note, having the staff of the Mists bend reality in a physical manner makes perfect sense to any Asura, as the Mists are the stuff which makes up everything else. It is the quite literal and tangible metaphysical goo that constitutes physical reality (I guess Tyrians don't need many philosophers!), and the fact that the realms of spirits lie inside the Mists is no more relevant than Tyria itself residing inside the Mists (even more than that, potentially a whole universe, where Tyria is a single planet). My only gripe with this , other than Balthazar building the only Mist Gates we know of at GW2 time (did they plan all this beforehand?), is that the wording is a little weird concerning the human gods, as they wouldn't be able to leave beyond the Mists if Mist is all that exists inbetween every single pocket universe. They'd just be so far away that Tyria can't possibly be connected to wherever that place is across the Mists. We should really get some Lord Ordran Fractals and some more lore on the Mists.

[Zoltar MacRoth.7146]

I never thought the spear was the "weapon". It was pretty clearly spelled out that it had one purpose: to kill big K. The "weapon" always seemed like it would be something more interesting. I think it's the Dragon Scroll from Kung Fu Panda - Aurene just needs to see it and realise the power was in her all along. Called it first. ;D

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@maxwelgm.4315 said:My only gripe with this , other than Balthazar building the only Mist Gates we know of at GW2 time (did they plan all this beforehand?), is that the wording is a little weird concerning the human gods, as they wouldn't be able to leave beyond the Mists if Mist is all that exists inbetween every single pocket universe. They'd just be so far away that Tyria can't possibly be connected to wherever that place is across the Mists. We should really get some Lord Ordran Fractals and some more lore on the Mists.

"Beyond the Mists" basically means not in Tyria, and not in the Mists surrounding Tyria / that Tyrians can easily enter. Basically, it means other planets/universes.

[ugrakarma.9416]

The dialogues about the weapon are very disconnected, I have the impression that the writers had a story that they aborted afterwards.When Kormir said "Restore what has been broken" I imagined that we would rebuild the Spear that we destroyed in the previous chapters,and try to use it against Balthazar.

Kormir: Kasmeer my dear child... You never needed our help.Kormir: You were already on the path. Follow the trail of Vlast.Kormir: Restore what has been broken.Kormir: The answers you seek are in the desert. I wish you good fortune, Commander.Kormir: It's time. I must join the others.Lady Kasmeer Meade: Goddess Kormir, before you go-Kormir: Yes?

[Feanor.2358]

@ugrakarma.9416 said:The dialogues about the weapon are very disconnected, I have the impression that the writers had a story that they aborted afterwards.When Kormir said "Restore what has been broken" I imagined that we would rebuild the Spear that we destroyed in the previous chapters,and try to use it against Balthazar.

Kormir: Kasmeer my dear child... You never needed our help.Kormir: You were already on the path. Follow the trail of Vlast.Kormir:

Restore what has been broken

.Kormir: The answers you seek are in the desert. I wish you good fortune, Commander.Kormir: It's time. I must join the others.Lady Kasmeer Meade: Goddess Kormir, before you go-Kormir: Yes?

Why, though? What sense does it make to try and use a weapon specifically designed to kill Kralkatorrik against an enemy who isn't Kralkatoriik? Why would anyone believe that has any chance to work?

[Pax.3548]

Don't get your hopes up for the staff of the mist, at least not yet, the idea is alluring, but until proven otherwise the staff is pretty much destroyed since gw1 and forever gone, so be careful not to delude yourselves without any solid clue or proof.

I've seen a lot of ppl tricking themselves into believing something without any solid evidence and being angry later because the plot did not live up to their expectations.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@ugrakarma.9416 said:The dialogues about the weapon are very disconnected, I have the impression that the writers had a story that they aborted afterwards.When Kormir said "Restore what has been broken" I imagined that we would rebuild the Spear that we destroyed in the previous chapters,and try to use it against Balthazar.

Kormir: Kasmeer my dear child... You never needed our help.Kormir: You were already on the path. Follow the trail of Vlast.Kormir:

Restore what has been broken

.Kormir: The answers you seek are in the desert. I wish you good fortune, Commander.Kormir: It's time. I must join the others.Lady Kasmeer Meade: Goddess Kormir, before you go-Kormir: Yes?

I think Kormir is referring to the balance of Tyria (destroyed when we killed Zhaitan and Mordremoth), not the weapon. Kormir never talks about a weapon.

@Pax.3548 said:I've seen a lot of ppl tricking themselves into believing something without any solid evidence and being angry later because the plot did not live up to their expectations.

You mean like almost every bandwagon theory there is?

Forged Menzies! Jennah is Lyssa! Anise is Livia! Livia will show herself in Out of the Shadows! Livia will show herself in Head of the Snake! The Six Gods are the Elder Dragons! Queen's Jubilee will be interrupted by Scarlet making Primordus active! Flame and Frost is about Jormag versus Primordus!

Even the "sylvari are dragon minions" was based on next to nothing (at least, not anything that couldn't be debunked).

It's kind of funny how often people base things on nothing, and it gains huge popularity. But almost all of them get debunked and people either rage that it isn't the case, or act like they never thought it could possibly happen. And should it prove true they throw it in everyone else's face...

Rather silly to see, in all honesty.