EU/NA Split

[Karasu.9483]

When is it going to be removed? I want to be able to play with my GW friends from NA. I've spent a lot of time on NA servers from the EU and never had any issues with latency. Why can't we just choose the server we play on like we could in GW?

[Naxos.2503]

Technically, you can play on a NA server while being in the EU. Several of my guildies are based in North America and South America, but joined me on my European server when I told them it would make things easier. Latency is Indeed minimal.

As for why we're not all on the same megaserver EU/NA, I Believe it would be logistical hell for them to handle that many connections on one arbitrarily situated server.

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

This might give you some answers to your question

Q: I remember changing servers instantly in GW1, how that was possible then? Different system all together?A: In Guild Wars character data /is/ actually transferred across the Atlantic and it was a huge source of downtime and disconnects for EU players. It wasn't fair at all and so for Guild Wars 2 we decided it was a better trade-off to have reliable service on the same continent even if that limited the ability to play together somewhat.

Q: will it be possible to TEMPORARILY guest for free cross-region, to allow us at least a temporary way to play at least PVE with friends cross-region?A: No that won't be possible - guesting allowed your "current world" to change but didn't do anything with the location of your data - Europe or North America. We have talked about what it would take to play in Europe and have your data in NA (for example) but the cables under the Atlantic are just not robust enough to have reliable database saves across continents.

[Karasu.9483]

@"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:This might give you some answers to your question

Q

: I remember changing servers instantly in GW1, how that was possible then? Different system all together?

A

: In Guild Wars character data /is/ actually transferred across the Atlantic and it was a huge source of downtime and disconnects for EU players. It wasn't fair at all and so for Guild Wars 2 we decided it was a better trade-off to have reliable service on the same continent even if that limited the ability to play together somewhat.

Q

: will it be possible to TEMPORARILY guest for free cross-region, to allow us at least a temporary way to play at least PVE with friends cross-region?

A

: No that won't be possible - guesting allowed your "current world" to change but didn't do anything with the location of your data - Europe or North America. We have talked about what it would take to play in Europe and have your data in NA (for example) but the cables under the Atlantic are just not robust enough to have reliable database saves across continents.

That's a completely outdated answer and is not even providing a solution to the issue. Connections between data centers have vastly improved in speed and reliability. I still play on NA servers without any hiccup or latency issues. I've seen more issues with people on EU servers connecting from countries with less reliable internet.

Fact is I can choose to play on NA or EU regardless where I'm from but if I want to play with my friends from the other continent the only solution is to spend gems. The EU/NA split is not real. The issues are outdated and the only thing separating me from playing with friends on either continent is a paywall.

Please let's open up this discussion again and let's not hide behind outdated answers.

[LucianDK.8615]

A few crossplayers might not cause an issue. But imagine it would be in the thousands or tens of thousands? Now that would choke up things a great deal.

[joneirikb.7506]

It's all the usual things with internet connections and server locations. And the reason why most games have separated servers for each region, people hate playing with lag, doubly so for any PvP mode. Just ask the Australians that has been asking for a own Australian server for 6+ years now, because they're sick of the lag to either EU or NA servers.

I'm an EU person myself, but play mainly on NA, but I solved this by having 2 accounts, one for NA and one for EU (Since I screwed up and ended up with 2 collectors edition accounts at launch anyways).

But basically, it is because ANet have created 2 Data center's, EU and NA, because they wanted to give EU players less lag than if they had to connect to NA servers (I typically go from latency 180-200 on the NA servers to around 50-80 on EU servers).

---

Changing that is going to require:

1: That ANet dismantles a DataCenter (EU, which I think is currently slightly bigger than NA), and transfer everyone over to the NA servers, likely having to make new servers (duplicate the existing ones) there.

2: Tell every single EU player that they have to accept higher Latency

Guesting doesn't work across datacenters, because the data of the account needs to actually change to the datacenter to be able to play there (server transfer).

---

In short, I think there are easier ways to work around it (grab an f2p account), than it is to solve it. And most people likely won't agree that this is something that needs to be solved in the first place.

[SkyFallsInThunder.8257]

@"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:This might give you some answers to your question

Q

: I remember changing servers instantly in GW1, how that was possible then? Different system all together?

A

: In Guild Wars character data /is/ actually transferred across the Atlantic and it was a huge source of downtime and disconnects for EU players. It wasn't fair at all and so for Guild Wars 2 we decided it was a better trade-off to have reliable service on the same continent even if that limited the ability to play together somewhat.

Q

: will it be possible to TEMPORARILY guest for free cross-region, to allow us at least a temporary way to play at least PVE with friends cross-region?

A

: No that won't be possible - guesting allowed your "current world" to change but didn't do anything with the location of your data - Europe or North America. We have talked about what it would take to play in Europe and have your data in NA (for example) but the cables under the Atlantic are just not robust enough to have reliable database saves across continents.

This is just not true anymore, if it ever was. I am from EU, made my gw2 account on EU server back in 2012 and played a few months, then transferred to NA and have been playing there ever since, constantly, without any issues. When I played Guild Wars I constantly switched from EU to NA depending on the time I was playing, so I have more people to play with or to trade; never ever experienced any issues.

So no. This is not a reason. What IS a reason is making that sweet sweet dough from server transfers. ANet would go a long way to proving they are professionals who do not BS their players if they just admitted that.

[Blocki.4931]

@SkyFallsInThunder.8257 said:

@"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:This might give you some answers to your question

Q

: I remember changing servers instantly in GW1, how that was possible then? Different system all together?

A

: In Guild Wars character data /is/ actually transferred across the Atlantic and it was a huge source of downtime and disconnects for EU players. It wasn't fair at all and so for Guild Wars 2 we decided it was a better trade-off to have reliable service on the same continent even if that limited the ability to play together somewhat.

Q

: will it be possible to TEMPORARILY guest for free cross-region, to allow us at least a temporary way to play at least PVE with friends cross-region?

A

: No that won't be possible - guesting allowed your "current world" to change but didn't do anything with the location of your data - Europe or North America. We have talked about what it would take to play in Europe and have your data in NA (for example) but the cables under the Atlantic are just not robust enough to have reliable database saves across continents.

This is just not true anymore, if it ever was. I am from EU, made my gw2 account on EU server back in 2012 and played a few months, then transferred to NA and have been playing there ever since, constantly, without any issues. When I played Guild Wars I constantly switched from EU to NA depending on the time I was playing, so I have more people to play with or to trade; never ever experienced any issues.

So no. This is not a reason. What IS a reason is making that sweet sweet dough from server transfers. ANet would go a long way to proving they are professionals who do not BS their players if they just admitted that.

Yeah, a couple hundred people at most doing something like that is no issue. Scaling it up to everybody is a massive issue and it's perfectly reasonable to not want to deal with it. It's not some stupid conspiracy to make money.

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

@SkyFallsInThunder.8257 said:

@"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:This might give you some answers to your question

Q

: I remember changing servers instantly in GW1, how that was possible then? Different system all together?

A

: In Guild Wars character data /is/ actually transferred across the Atlantic and it was a huge source of downtime and disconnects for EU players. It wasn't fair at all and so for Guild Wars 2 we decided it was a better trade-off to have reliable service on the same continent even if that limited the ability to play together somewhat.

Q

: will it be possible to TEMPORARILY guest for free cross-region, to allow us at least a temporary way to play at least PVE with friends cross-region?

A

: No that won't be possible - guesting allowed your "current world" to change but didn't do anything with the location of your data - Europe or North America. We have talked about what it would take to play in Europe and have your data in NA (for example) but the cables under the Atlantic are just not robust enough to have reliable database saves across continents.

This is just not true anymore, if it ever was. I am from EU, made my gw2 account on EU server back in 2012 and played a few months, then transferred to NA and have been playing there ever since, constantly, without any issues. When I played Guild Wars I constantly switched from EU to NA depending on the time I was playing, so I have more people to play with or to trade; never ever experienced any issues.

So no. This is not a reason. What IS a reason is making that sweet sweet dough from server transfers. ANet would go a long way to proving they are professionals who do not BS their players if they just admitted that.

The plural of anecdote is not data.

[Danikat.8537]

If any of the people who know how this can be done want to share the details I'm sure Anet would be happy to hear from you. I'm sure a lot of players would like this option so if you know someone they don't about how to set it up it can't hurt to share. Even if you're a professional and don't want to offer the info for free I'm sure you could discuss a consultant's fee.

[Dawdler.8521]

I guess the latency is no longer restricted by the speed of light across the Atlantic fiber cables, we're now at ludicrous speed.

Isnt the future where we break the laws of physics amazing?

[Karasu.9483]

@"Dawdler.8521" said:I guess the latency is no longer restricted by the speed of light across the Atlantic fiber cables, we're now at ludicrous speed.

Isnt the future where we break the laws of physics amazing?

If you consider the improvements made on most major datacenters and their interconnects there's been huge changes in the last seven years:

Not just Azure but AWS and even Hetzner have made similar investments.

I'm willing to provide the consultancy to make this possible if it's really a technical limitation

[Astralporing.1957]

@Karasu.9483 said:Fact is I can choose to play on NA or EU regardless where I'm from but if I want to play with my friends from the other continent the only solution is to spend gems. The EU/NA split is not real.So, you have a good net, and aren't noticing the differences between two regions. Congratulations. It may be a surprise to you however, that not everyone has it as good as you.

For many players the lag between regions is noticeable.

(and in the time we're arguing this, the average ping for Australian players is around 700...)

[Tanner Blackfeather.6509]

@Dawdler.8521 said:I guess the latency is no longer restricted by the speed of light across the Atlantic fiber cables, we're now at ludicrous speed.

Isnt the future where we break the laws of physics amazing?

To keep the discussion serious, please don't bring speed of light up as a limiting factor. If that would be the main part of the latency, it would be within values we'd all be cool with since it's within 2-digit milliseconds. The main culprit is the delay from routings along the way.

[Dawdler.8521]

@Tanner Blackfeather.6509 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:I guess the latency is no longer restricted by the speed of light across the Atlantic fiber cables, we're now at ludicrous speed.

Isnt the future where we break the laws of physics amazing?

To keep the discussion serious, please don't bring speed of light up as a limiting factor. If

that

would be the main part of the latency, it would be within values we'd all be cool with since it's within 2-digit milliseconds. The main culprit is the delay from routings along the way.

So you're saying its not just a straight cable from my home to America?!

A gasp!

Cant be serious in a topic about something thats not really serious. If you want speed then servers are best placed close to clients for a reason. People already complain about lag in GW2.

[Tanner Blackfeather.6509]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Tanner Blackfeather.6509 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:I guess the latency is no longer restricted by the speed of light across the Atlantic fiber cables, we're now at ludicrous speed.

Isnt the future where we break the laws of physics amazing?

To keep the discussion serious, please don't bring speed of light up as a limiting factor. If

that

would be the main part of the latency, it would be within values we'd all be cool with since it's within 2-digit milliseconds. The main culprit is the delay from routings along the way.

So you're saying its not just a straight cable from my home to America?!

A gasp!

Cant be serious in a topic about something thats not really serious. If you want speed then servers are best placed close to clients for a reason. People already complain about lag in GW2.

Didn't mean to shoot down a post made in jest, waaaay too many people do think speed of light is what causes most of the latency.

I've played two games with datacentres in the US - GW1 and LOTRO. For LOTRO I played over the migration where the european datacentre was closed and everyone migrated to the US centre. That migration saw a very noticeable increase in latency.Both games are quite playable with that connection, but they are also much less lag sensitive for general play.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@"Karasu.9483" said:That's a completely outdated answerHow so? The response was posted less than 16 months ago.

What changed in 2018 that makes ANet's analysis inaccurate enough to change the conclusion?

edit: fixed a typo in the age of the post

[Yamazuki.6073]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Karasu.9483 said:Fact is I can choose to play on NA or EU regardless where I'm from but if I want to play with my friends from the other continent the only solution is to spend gems. The EU/NA split is not real.So, you have a good net, and aren't noticing the differences between two regions. Congratulations. It may be a surprise to you however, that not everyone has it as good as you.

For many players the lag between regions

is

noticeable.

(and in the time we're arguing this, the average ping for Australian players is around 700...)

It depends on location and not just your internet. Western Europeans won't have absurd ping due to the servers for NA being moved to the East Coast after PoF. I live in the US, West Coast, and I'm stuck with dealing with 120-150 ping ever since the servers moved. When I lived on the East Coast, my ping to LoL's EUW servers were lower than this.

[Dawdler.8521]

@Tanner Blackfeather.6509 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Tanner Blackfeather.6509 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:I guess the latency is no longer restricted by the speed of light across the Atlantic fiber cables, we're now at ludicrous speed.

Isnt the future where we break the laws of physics amazing?

To keep the discussion serious, please don't bring speed of light up as a limiting factor. If

that

would be the main part of the latency, it would be within values we'd all be cool with since it's within 2-digit milliseconds. The main culprit is the delay from routings along the way.

So you're saying its not just a straight cable from my home to America?!

A gasp!

Cant be serious in a topic about something thats not really serious. If you want speed then servers are best placed close to clients for a reason. People already complain about lag in GW2.

Didn't mean to shoot down a post made in jest, waaaay too many people

do

think speed of light is what causes most of the latency.

I've played two games with datacentres in the US - GW1 and LOTRO. For LOTRO I played over the migration where the european datacentre was closed and everyone migrated to the US centre. That migration saw a very noticeable increase in latency.Both games are quite playable with that connection, but they are also much less lag sensitive for general play.Dont forget ESO Cyrodiil , which was basicly unplayable in the EU and killed the game within months because Zenimax straight up lied to entire community on where the server was located. You selected EU, they told us it was going to be a proper EU server at release that resolve all lag issues and when we pointed out that we where warping back 8 meters when running 10 meters forward it was like

"Oooops did we FORGET to tell you that the EU datacenter is actually in the US? Our bad, now give us more money we'll maybe fix it in 6 months or something."

.

[Astralporing.1957]

@Yamazuki.6073 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Karasu.9483 said:Fact is I can choose to play on NA or EU regardless where I'm from but if I want to play with my friends from the other continent the only solution is to spend gems. The EU/NA split is not real.So, you have a good net, and aren't noticing the differences between two regions. Congratulations. It may be a surprise to you however, that not everyone has it as good as you.

For many players the lag between regions

is

noticeable.

(and in the time we're arguing this, the average ping for Australian players is around 700...)

It depends on location and not just your internet. Western Europeans won't have absurd ping due to the servers for NA being moved to the East Coast after PoF. I live in the US, West Coast, and I'm stuck with dealing with 120-150 ping ever since the servers moved. When I lived on the East Coast, my ping to LoL's EUW servers were lower than this.You'd be surprised. Routings for ISPs here are sometimes weird. It's not unusual to see all your data to US routed not towards west coast, but through germany (where eu datacenter is, by the way)->norway->UK->Iceland->US.It's all dependant on inter-ISP deals and the current traffic situation (and of course your geographical location - it's quite common for northern parts of Central Europe to use the norway path, for example, as poland->germany can be sometimes ridiculously slow)

[Karasu.9483]

What about choice? Even if I wanted to sign a waiver and take the risk of increased latency I currently don't have that choice. It's not about PvP or WvW but being able to play with my friends.

[LucianDK.8615]

Problem is that it might not be good for server stability to suddenly have a lot of people try to play from overseas.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

@Karasu.9483 said:What about choice? Even if I wanted to sign a waiver and take the risk of increased latency I currently don't have that choice. It's not about PvP or WvW but being able to play with my friends.

You have a choice; the NA or EU data center.

What there is no choice for is having both data centers combined into one in one location.

I suppose you could ask ArenaNet to create a third data center (for waiver signers), and split the population more. But, would enough players populate it to fill 6 Worlds for WvW? Or would the players just play the same other players all the time? Enough players to populate the many maps in PvE? They say some maps are sparsely populated with the playerbase only split two ways now.

[Ayakaru.6583]

@Karasu.9483 said:

@"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:This might give you some answers to your question

Q

: I remember changing servers instantly in GW1, how that was possible then? Different system all together?

A

: In Guild Wars character data /is/ actually transferred across the Atlantic and it was a huge source of downtime and disconnects for EU players. It wasn't fair at all and so for Guild Wars 2 we decided it was a better trade-off to have reliable service on the same continent even if that limited the ability to play together somewhat.

Q

: will it be possible to TEMPORARILY guest for free cross-region, to allow us at least a temporary way to play at least PVE with friends cross-region?

A

: No that won't be possible - guesting allowed your "current world" to change but didn't do anything with the location of your data - Europe or North America. We have talked about what it would take to play in Europe and have your data in NA (for example) but the cables under the Atlantic are just not robust enough to have reliable database saves across continents.

That's a completely outdated answer and is not even providing a solution to the issue. Connections between data centers have vastly improved in speed and reliability. I still play on NA servers without any hiccup or latency issues. I've seen more issues with people on EU servers connecting from countries with less reliable internet.

Fact is I can choose to play on NA or EU regardless where I'm from but if I want to play with my friends from the other continent the only solution is to spend gems. The EU/NA split is not real. The issues are outdated and the only thing separating me from playing with friends on either continent is a paywall.

Please let's open up this discussion again and let's not hide behind outdated answers.

It's an outdated answer, maybe, yes.But to do you want them to repeat the same statement annually?And no, it doesn't help your problem. It explains why your problem can't be helped.

Fact is, you can play EU or US, but you can't transfer profile data from one to the other.We're not hiding behind outdated answers, we're simply telling you why anet didn't give us that freedom.

[Karasu.9483]

Fact is, you can play EU or US, but you can't transfer profile data from one to the other.We're not hiding behind outdated answers, we're simply telling you why anet didn't give us that freedom.

But you can. You can transfer whenever you like.

Am I the only one who cares about this? I'm telling you it's not a technical limitation anymore so why not talk about this?