Skyscale mount mechanics (not about timegate)

[Heibi.4251]

After further use of the flying and climbing walls I'm in agreement with some that the RED bar mechanic is way too quick to take affect. I initially thought we could just keep going but I was wrong. The use of the gaining of the blue bar to gain more altitude should have more uses. Otherwise this mount is more of a vanity mount as you can use the bunny and griffon to gain greater altitude in combo use. I like the skyscale but the performance limitations are very disappointing.

So my final observations:

1. Need more uses of the grip wall recharge and gain more altitude mechanic.
2. Need to make it so we either don't lose "blue" bar while trying to fly level. Very touchy.
3. Fire attack needs some kind of target area indicator.
4. Grip mechanic is clunky on semi-level ground. Sometimes a bunny can land easily where the skyscale grips for some reason. If a bunny can land a skyscale should be able to land without gripping.

[JustTrogdor.7892]

Just got the mount and took it for a spin around Dragonfall meta. Was it just me or did the rental during Skyscale Flight where you get the rifts gain endurance much faster when going forward as opposed to the actual mount? It seemed like it to me. If so, I preferred that version.

Edit: Never mind it seems it was one of the last two masteries that made it faster.

[LucianDK.8615]

eating volatile magic refils meters.

[Ototo.3214]

@Tails.9372 said:It's still has unrestricted flight you're just trading maneuverability for speed when compared to the skyscale (or better that's what the trade-off should have been).Um...having a trade-off =/= unrestricted. The griffin alone can't get everywhere.@Tails.9372 said:Actually there is nothing inherently wrong with "breaking" a challenge the content presents. Most events are designed for a small amount of players and yet you can just show up with 50 players and faceroll them no problem. If the devs want to prevent you form doing something than that's what they're going to do (e.g. no mount zones for JPs) everything else is fair game as it should be.I fail to see how having a bunch of people show up to an event is breaking the game. Many events also have scaling to account for large groups. There made them so many can be completed by one or many, which is good considering you won't always have a zerg on a map.

@Tails.9372 said:I really don't understand why you want to force everyone to play the game how you perceive what the "from the devs originally intended way of playing" is supposed to be.Clearly it's not just me that thinks unrestricted flying is bad, Anet said it themselves that they didn't want it in the first Skyscale stream. I happen to agree with them for the various reasons I already listed. Will they change it due to all the complaints? Idk, they're changing the time gate due to feedback. But I'd prefer they just buff what it already has instead of just making it a go anywhere mount with a useless wall grab.

@Tails.9372 said:The only kind of content engulfed in no mount zones are JPs which would get them regardless.Which become annoying around some JPs like the one in the top left of Harathi. I'd rather more not be added to random other places because of a mount like this.

[Tails.9372]

@Ototo.3214 said:Um...having a trade-off =/= unrestricted. The griffin alone can't get everywhere.

Neither could the skyscale, your point?

@Ototo.3214 said:I fail to see how having a bunch of people show up to an event is breaking the game.

If an event isn't designed for 50 people then showing up with a full squad is going to break the difficulty it was intended to present.

@Ototo.3214 said:Clearly it's not just me that thinks unrestricted flying is bad

Which is grounded in complete subjectivity. It essentially boils down to "its bad because I don't want other players to play how they want to play".

@Ototo.3214 said:Which become annoying around some JPs like the one in the top left of Harathi. I'd rather more not be added to random other places because of a mount like this.

Now you're just making stuff up, there is no reason why they would put no mount zones on random places. You're essentially just fearmongering here.

[Ototo.3214]

@Tails.9372 said:Neither could the skyscale, your point?You claimed the griffin had unrestricted flight.

@Tails.9372 said:If an event isn't designed for 50 people then showing up with a full squad is going to break the difficulty it was intended to present.You completely ignored what I said. That's why there's scaling. Not every event needs to be super difficult. Things like bull escorts in Silverwastes can be done by one person easy. And if more people are there it scales up to compensate so the mobs don't melt in .5 seconds and many don't get credit. While other things like the night bosses in Verdant Brink can be completed with a few people, but when a ton of people show up, they scale up drastically.

@Tails.9372 said:Which is grounded in complete subjectivity. It essentially boils down to "its bad because I don't want other players to play how they want to play".As if my opinion is worth less. Aight. I've already listed more reasons why they're bad than "i don't want people to play the way they want boohoo." Don't put words in my mouth.

@Tails.9372 said:Now you're just making stuff up, there is no reason why they would put no mount zones on random places. You're essentially just fearmongering here.My example is not made up.And who knows what future maps we might get and what's in them. I don't want to see more no mount zones just because a Skyscale could bypass something that, say, the springer couldn't jump over.

[Tails.9372]

@Ototo.3214 said:You claimed the griffin had unrestricted flight.

Which it has by any normal definition but of course you can always come up with something like "the griffin alone can't get everywhere cause it can't dive", "unless it gets shot down" or something.

@Ototo.3214 said:You completely ignored what I said. That's why there's scaling.

Scaling only goes so far, you can still break the content through sheer numbers.

@Ototo.3214 said:As if my opinion is worth less.

Not worth less but adversarial in nature. If you think that everyone should dance after your whim cause you feel like it then of course people are going to have a problem with it.

@Ototo.3214 said:Aight. I've already listed more reasons why they're bad than "i don't want people to play the way they want boohoo." Don't put words in my mouth.

Not really you made some statements which also apply to mounts in general, but your reasoning is extremely inconsistent here. Also "Don't put words in my mouth."? You said "I feel like you should have to...", you forgetting about your own post ≠ me putting words into your mouth.

@Ototo.3214 said:My example is not made up.

Them putting a no mount zone on a JP ≠ them putting no mount zones into random places. Like I said if they ever decide to make a new JP then it's going to have a no mount zone regardless.

[Kidel.2057]

@"Gambino.2109" said:The wall cling seems... very poor

Once you lose both stamina bars for the wall cling.. you're not going anywhere.

Told you at the first page. The grab doesn't solve anything except very narrow situations. If you're far from the top and you go red you're basically done.

Red flight gauge is a very hard punish.

Again, I need to bump this: why the hell do we start full red in flight meter from a branded tornado or an upwards ley line after using Air Rescue?It really bothers me. An empty gauge ok, but red goes down FAST. I'd be better just gliding at that point, or use the Griffon.

It felt horrible the first time. You spend 9 days farming to get this dude, and poossibly a couple of extra hours unlocking all the masteries.

It's an anomaly for now on the Wiki https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Skyscale#Movement.2FControls

And is it me or fire attack is very hard to target if you're not on the ground? Is this mount supposed to be used from the ground?

[Ototo.3214]

I've made my points clear and am not going to continue going back and forth repeating myself because people ignore my points.I'm fine with and would really like to see buffs and have already listed what they are.Unrestricted flight makes maps too trivial and completely makes its unique wall grab and flight gauge pointless.No other mount can just flat out ignore everything about a map.We'll see if Anet does anything about it despite already saying they were against it.

[Undertow.2389]

The biggest problem I have with it after flying around on the unlocked version for a night is: few evades. This pretty much kills its usefulness in real world usage as it gets shot down by ranged mobs incredibly quickly, unlike the griffon which has god mod evade ~75% of the time.

[Ototo.3214]

@Undertow.2389 said:The biggest problem I have with it after flying around on the unlocked version for a night is: no evade. This pretty much kills its usefulness in real world usage as it gets shot down by ranged mobs incredibly quickly, unlike the griffon which has god mod evade ~75% of the time.

Since its flight mechanic doesn't use the dodge meter, we should be able to use our normal dodge key to do some kind of evade with it while flying. That or give it twice the current hp.

Haven't actually tested it but I assumed it's barrel roll mount 1 ability would evade assuming you have the jackal mastery o:

[Undertow.2389]

@Ototo.3214 said:Haven't actually tested it but I assumed it's barrel roll mount 1 ability would evade assuming you have the jackal mastery o:

Ok, the mount1 and mount2 abilities I missed (as they are unmentioned anywhere, and vary with what they do from mount to mount. Sometimes mount1 ability is the same as jump eg. the raptor or jackal). The skyscale barrel roll is an evade that uses the dodge meter. It's still extremely inferior to either the griffon or springer when it comes to evades, and those are the mounts it would be competing with. I'd say just give it a hp buff to keep it different but a bit more tanky. It's a dragon after all.

[Ototo.3214]

@Undertow.2389 said:

@Ototo.3214 said:Haven't actually tested it but I assumed it's barrel roll mount 1 ability would evade assuming you have the jackal mastery o:

Ok, the mount1 and mount2 abilities I missed (as they are unmentioned anywhere, and vary with what they do from mount to mount. Sometimes mount1 ability is the same as jump eg. the raptor or jackal). The skyscale barrel roll is an evade that uses the dodge meter. It's still extremely inferior to either the griffon or springer when it comes to evades, and those are the mounts it would be competing with. I'd say just give it a hp buff to keep it different but a bit more tanky. It's a dragon after all.

True, it's not as good as the wing flap on griffin. If it could stay aloft a bit better though, it could help as well. I've also seen some people suggest it get a 3rd endurance bar thing.

[Kilamanjaro.2705]

It absolutely needs a rapid descent ability. I mean, gravity isnt an ability and so dropping should be built in, the single biggest complaint with mine fully mastered is that I just cant get down quickly without dismounting (which has too high of a CD to be effective for the Skyscale)

[Ayrilana.1396]

Rapid descent would encroach on the griffon which is why I believe it doesn’t have that ability.

[Menadena.7482]

I do have to wonder what they were thinking. From the initial description it sounded like we were trading speed for the ability to climb, fine, I could live with that. Then we saw the first look at the flight mechanics on guild chat and, well, I still hoped it would be better when it was fully mastered so reserved my judgement (but was not as hyped). Then the various acquisition messes. This almost smells like a project that got halfway done and someone said to ship it.

[Gambino.2109]

My question is.. why did they add a red bar when you're cliff hanging, the red bar is there to pretty much make sure you don't get too high up on a cliff and your mount will lose all progress if it fails to reach a safe spot to regain stamina

[Daishi.6027]

So with full masteries it's a bit underwhelming, honestly the canopy should renew to the height after clinging to a wall.

[Emberheart.8426]

I woldn't turn away a buff, because that's always nice. However, I believe that the skyscale is already quite useful. It has enabled me to climb several places with no ledges for the springer to land on, quicker than if I had tried an alternative route. I found it particularly useful for navigating the branded areas in Vabbi, when you are trying to go upwards. It feels more sluggish than it really is because of how big its wingspan is.

[Matt H.6142]

I’d like the flight meter to be full still after that first leap from standing so it gets as much free height as the griffon, instead of losing 20% immediately.

[Tekoneiric.6817]

After finally getting my skyscale and using it a bit I have a couple of suggestions. Since it's basically a fire breathing dragon it shouldn't be affected by fire/lava damage like other mounts. At the very least at a reduced level to the other mounts. Also I'd like to see the flight endurance meter recharge after motion has stopped with a cool down period. The mount would have to hover for something like 30 seconds for the meter to start to recover.

[Carcharoth Lucian.1378]

@Gambino.2109 said:My question is.. why did they add a red bar when you're cliff hanging, the red bar is there to pretty much make sure you don't get too high up on a cliff and your mount will lose all progress if it fails to reach a safe spot to regain stamina

+1

[Tails.9372]

So here are some points to note after watching the devstream:

• it was designed to move along walls
• the "wall jump" is supposed to be the "defining aspect of the mount"
• sticking to the wall is cool (??? the constant need to do that is the most anyong part of the whole thing)

Like seriously, they should have gone with the spider mount they initially wanted to make.

Also their reasoning as for why they didn't want to give it free flight is really lacking:

• then you wouldn't need all the other mounts anymore

Like how? Most of the other mounts are still significantly faster or more maneuverable so there would clearly be a trade-off here. The main application of a slow free flying mount (aside from enjoying the view and taking screenshots) would be to search an area for stuff like collectables without using an online guide and not to get from A to B.

• free flight is boring

This one is right out condescension, fun is subjective and no one would be forced to use it. They're not the arbiter of what's fun or not.

[Taygus.4571]

@Graymalkyn.8076 said:How about an option (could be a mastery) to actually be able to scale the wall you are clinging to? Rather than just stick to it, you could walk up it. This might actually add some relevance to the mount.

This is what I originally expected.

[Kilamanjaro.2705]

riding a ley line up on the Dragon Fall meta, mounting in air and then having to sink to the ground before you can fly is a massive fail, Making the signature mount of this episode irrelevant in its own episodeThat mechanic needs to go away, at least on it's "home" map. I'm sure we could say mounts are not tied to any given map, but it should at least be relevant in the same map it was introduced in.There's also the need for a little better evasion and health, currently, I have been 1 shot dismounted from a few varieties of Forged mobs. I could see the occasional "lucky shot" but this is regular