PvP Demo Weekend Spellbreaker Feedback Thread

[Jzaku.9765]

It might be too late but I feel like, while the forums aren't bloated with too much fluff, an outlet to discuss Breaker as it was in the beta would be good.I'd like to request that people try to only comment if they tested beyond smacking the golem for a few minutes with all the skills.

My overall impressions For the SpellbreakerWhat I liked

• Full counter is incredibly satisfying to land, very fun gameplay with good counterplay. Maybe too easy to counterplay honestly.*
• Condi Cleanse and maintaining Adrenal Health is surprisingly decent despite my initial reservations with the leaked info about spellbreaker’s mechanics!
• Particle effects are pretty to look at, although it’s a stark contrast with the rest of warrior’s effects.
• Dagger feels fluid and intuitive to use. The Dagger burst goes a long way towards this. Please continue this design of a cohesive skillset within the weapon itself in future changes to Warrior. (For example, Greatsword has 100b but NO way to land it effectively. Meanwhile Dagger has the 2-3-4 combo to land it's burst.) It'll really reduce the dependency on Fast Hands since making it Baseline is forbidden or something.

What I don’t like

• Dagger looks like it should be a mobile weapon with 2 leaps in the skillset but between the big aftercasts and short leaps, it’s really not. With my SEA ping I'm fairly certain I'll hit more with Dagger 2 if it wasn't a leap.
• T1 core warrior bursts are bad in general and I don’t know why we’re restricted to them. If the issue was because mechanically it would drain all adrenaline rendering full counter unable to be used then either revamp the T1s or make new ones for spellbreaker! Dagger burst is great because it was designed with 2017 GW2 in mind rather than being an archaic relic of 2013 GW2 forced upon the espec.
• Spellbreaker is bad at stripping Boons relative to other classes without specifically taking a Grandmaster Trait that does nothing else, especially Scourge who gets a double boon corruption on a 4s CD that costs low resource via a Master Trait in Curses. There's also only 3 ways to strip stability, Dagger Burst, the (bad) Utility Break Enchantment, and the Elite. More testing needs to be done to see if we have a strip priority like how Thief prioritizes Aegis and Stab when stealing, but I doubt it. From my testing the Minor that strips boons on CC does not proc when the CC is negated by stab.

What I would change

• Buff the T1 core weapon bursts to not be terrible. Even if this results in buffs to the T3 versions is that really that terrible considering we’re coming off Berserker who had objectively better versions in some cases?
• Alternatively, another solution to this would be to add a minor in Spellbreaker that added an effect (like say, stripping ONE boon) innately to your T1 weapon bursts.
• Increase the range and speed on the Dagger leaps. Especially dagger 2, that thing barely moves you faster than walking.
• Please make Dagger auto do more damage. I don’t understand why Thief Dagger auto is allowed to be incredibly high DPS but warrior isn’t, considering they have a similarly disruptive skillset and gameplay should they spec for it. Here's the damage modifiers for comparison: Warr Dagger auto 0.55, 0.55, 0.85 | Thief Dagger auto 0.8, 0.85, 1.1
• Make Dagger 3 a dagger throw with decent range (300?). Pure Melee range is so bad for what it’s supposed to do. See: Thief Pistol 4.
• Featherfoot Grace would actually be competitive Berserker’s stance with a 25s CD instead of a 30s one. Right now it’s still Berserker’s stance every single time.
• Sight Beyond Sight should give you immunity to Blind for it’s duration, goes away after landing the hit together with the buff. Functionally Featherfoot Grace does the same function except a million times better because resistance makes you immune to blind, while not being completely useless otherwise.
• Imminent Threat is awful. Turns out that even when you reduce the CD of what is functionally Fear Me to almost half it’s still not gonna be used ever over Berserker’s Stance and Endure Pain, and the range is too small to be effective. Actually this is just a warrior problem in general, every utility skill made has to shine REALLY bright to outshine those 2. Also, you'd think the point was that you do a big AoE CC and strip boons as a result of the minor, but that minor doesn't include Taunt.
• Sun and Moon Style - On ANY other class this would read “Your interrupts grant quickness” straight up. Why restrict it to only main hand dagger which has ONE interrupt when the synergy is there with Hammer or Mace? Please take inspiration from Merciless Hammer and Shield master and offer something for all weapons together with your weaponmaster trait.
• Loss Aversion does like, nothing at all. Seriously. If the worry is affecting a lot of people in a Zerg, I'd like to point out that weak damage is still weak damage no matter how many people it hits. Meteor Storm applies full huge damage if it hits 1 target or it's max potential when cast into a zerg.

[Iavra.8510]

I'm pretty sure T1 bursts being bad in combination with Spellbreaker is by design, since there should be a tradeoff when switching between core and specialized classes (in this way, classes like Chronomancer and Daredevil are badly designed, because they are simply superior to their core classes).

The same goes for 100B, which hits like a truck, so they opted to not have an enabler on the same weapon.

[Jzaku.9765]

@Iavra.8510 said:I'm pretty sure T1 bursts being bad in combination with Spellbreaker is by design, since there should be a tradeoff when switching between core and specialized classes (in this way, classes like Chronomancer and Daredevil are badly designed, because they are simply superior to their core classes).

The same goes for 100B, which hits like a truck, so they opted to not have an enabler on the same weapon.

Except Dagger burst is amazing?

[YuiRS.8129]

I have three main concerns regarding Spellbreaker.

1. It doesn't synergize well with anything outside DPS power builds. You can't really build condi/hybrid without Longbow and t1 Longbow burst is basically useless. You can't build tanky without Longbow and 3 stacks of Adrenal Health and Cleansing Ire. Spellbreaker doesn't offer great mobility, so you still have to use Greatsword to get around, which can only be used with DPS power builds.

2. It doesn't play much different from a core power Warrior. You run around and hit stuff, spam burst skills, juggle weapons. Utilities are either underwhelming or offer just general useful effects that don't redefine your playstyle. Only the Elite really pushed you in other direction and makes you play differently. Full Counter, while extremely strong, is just something to use right as it comes off cooldown to mitigate a bit of damage and do a bit more damage yourself, it's not really strategic (unless you have Revenge Counter, but you can't really build Condi on Spellbreaker to actually deal damage with your transferred condis).

3. It's basically unusable in PvE. PvE is the biggest part of GW2, it's the element that gets the most of developer attention and has the greatest amount of content. And yet the spec isn't just mediocre, it's simply terrible in PvE.

What I would change.

I would make it so Spellbreaker's gameplay in PvP actually revolves around boon removal. Right now Spellbreaker is good in WvW because he can deny Stability via Elite because it gets swallowed by effect culling, but that's basically it. When it comes to small scale PvP and general boon counterplay, Spellbreaker isn't actually that great. You remove boons when you interrupt and when you hit with very selective skills. That means you can't actually shut down boon spamming classes because they renew boons instantly many times over, you simply can't keep up. I think that Spellbreaker shouldn't simply remove boons, but get stronger for it. Your gameplay should be about hunting boon-rich classes, weakening them and using them as fuel.

I would make Attacker's Insight stack up to 10 times, last 20-25 seconds, but only trigger when you remove a boon (instead of also when you CC a target). That would mean that if you can find lots of boons to munch on you become a killing machine. Spellbreaker's gameplay will be about finding magic and dispelling it and it will actually be dangerous to feed Spellbreaker with free boons. Right now Spellbreaker removes Regeneration and Swiftness for 1 second before Ele or Engie puts it back again, but if Spellbreaker gets seriously empowered by dispelling boons, he becomes dangerous in other ways.

Loss Aversion. Great idea, but it's too weak. Either buff it significantly or roll into Dispelling Force and come up with another Major trait to replace it. E.g. a trait that heals when you remove a boon.

Revenge Counter. I say ditch it. I don't see condi Spellbreaker ever working. Instead maybe have a traint like this: Whenever you deal a critical strike, grant 5/10 allies around you 1 stack of Attacker's Insight for 5-10 seconds. Suddenly Spellbreaker might be useful in PvE. It will still probably just be a single Viper PS Spellbreaker, but hey, at least the spec is used, I guess.

Sight Beyond Sight. I mean... I guess it might help to counter thieves if you really hate them, but it's just a weak skill that doesn't do enough. You can't be picking duds, you only have 3 slots and it has to compete with stuff like Stances and Bull's Charge. It needs to do more. Instead of making the next attack crit, maybe make it deal 25% more damage or something.

Imminent Threat. This skill is just... it's almost as bad as Kick. And Kick is pretty bad. If it had a 360 radius and was on a 20 second cooldown instead of 35 seconds it would probably still be bad. Right now it's just... I don't know why. Maybe increase the radius and make it have 2 charges.

Break Enchantments. Just a bit too weak. If boon removal becomes better this skill might become viable. As it stands right now... 1.1k base damage in full Zerker is low, removing 2 boons isn't that great and it actually has a cast time too.

[Sylvyn.4750]

@YuiRS.8129 said:

I would make it so Spellbreaker's gameplay in PvP actually revolves around boon removal. Right now Spellbreaker is good in WvW because he can deny Stability via Elite because it gets swallowed by effect culling, but that's basically it. When it comes to small scale PvP and general boon counterplay, Spellbreaker isn't actually that great. You remove boons when you interrupt and when you hit with very selective skills. That means you can't actually shut down boon spamming classes because they renew boons instantly many times over, you simply can't keep up. I think that Spellbreaker shouldn't simply remove boons, but get stronger for it. Your gameplay should be about hunting boon-rich classes, weakening them and using them as fuel.

My thought is that if boon removal worked too well, your party's Scourges won't have any left to corrupt!

[BurrTheKing.8571]

I disagree that there's no room for hybrid builds on SB, I ran something like this during it and it was effective so long as you focused on interrupts. While you are slow, once you catch someone - they shouldn't get away without a lot of effort. You only have 2 main damaging conditions, but you have cripple, immob, and slow as covers. Revenge Counter may actually be better for on point fighting. You can throw 5 condis back at them.

[Kiroshima.8497]

First off, why is the t1 longbow burst tiny? None of the other bursts get nerfed relative to their standard burst at the same cost. If you're core OR berserker the t1 longbow burst is still the full size.

Besides that, spellbreaker doesn't feel like a spellbreaker. The only things that can strip boons at the moment are hard CC abilities, dagger burst, Break Enchantments, and the Elite. This means that if you're using ANY weapon that isn't mace/hammer/dagger, you have lost out on the role and are now just "Full Counter Warrior". Like, break enchantments has a cast time, on a low power offensive ability. Smite Condition is instant, and it's defensive (defensive skills usually should take more risk than offensive to maintain the flow of greater offense usually wins), so what's up with that? Winds of Disenchantment is cool, but of course that's a huge bomb to commit to so it doesn't really count for spellbreaker theming as a whole (although it does it really well as a lightning field so leap finishers cause boon strips).

There are a few ways to deal with this.By Default: All Burst Attacks (not full counter) strip 1 boon per hit. Alternatively, separate boons into categories and strip them based off the weapon being used. Offensive weapons like GS, Rifle, and Axe destroy offensive boons, CC weapons destroy Defensive boons, Sword and Longbow destroy Utility boons.Boon Categories: Offense (Might, Fury, Quickness, Retaliation), Defense (Protection, Resistance, Aegis, Stability), Utility (Swiftness, Superspeed, Regeneration, Vigor)

Now for the optional stuff.
1.) Make use of Disenchantment: Break Enchantments applies 2 seconds per boon stripped, bursts apply 1-3 seconds per hit (the more hits, the less duration).2.) Boon strips cause slow as the enchantments unravel. Change dagger 2 to strip 1 boon.3.) Disenchantment not only prevents receiving boons, but also generation of boons on allies.4.) Expand the CC boon strip trait to include Fear, Taunt, and Immobolize. Fear strips 3, Taunt strips 2 (since fear is less useful as it forces enemies away, whereas Taunt brings them to you and is much more useful), and Immobolize strips 1 (due to ease of access).5.) Rework Magebane Tether, it pulses boonstrips and Reveal (no longer grants might), but if they break the tether it taunts the victim. Imminent Threat applies Magebane Tether to 3 (or 5) targets when traited.

Also, what's with Sun and Moon style having like 0 theming strength. Dagger has 1 interrupt, Dagger 3. Warrior only has 1 lightning field, with a cooldown of 90 seconds, so you can't even generate Daze Leap finishers to combo using dagger burst or dagger 2. I mean do they expect Warrior to run Kick or something? Also, that offhand bonus, spellbreaker doesn't really even feel like a crit spec since those ratios are so low (and there's only 1 other crit trait anyways). Just make it heal on boon strip, based on the boon (more valuable boons grant more health).

So yeah, theming to gameplay issues abound imo.