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It's time to start banning addons and 3rd party tools


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The amount of addons for this game is getting overboard, and they offer a huge advantage over people using the base game. Either officially support addons via an in game UI with a trusted store like the google store/apple store, or start to ban these.

There's addons that:Help you finish map completion for core tyria in less than half the time.Make it easier to mount via radial menus.(Should be in the base game)Damage meters(these are fine tbh though)Markers on the map for gather routes(should be base in the game).As well as many others I don't even know about.

If you continue to ignore them, they will only get more and more complex and automated and there will be so many of them you won't be able to keep track. It will become standard practice to use tons of these for users despite them being "against the rules" and people who play legit will be left behind or mocked for not using them.

It's time to crack down on these 3rd party tools that are against the TOS. Ban all of them, and put any good useful ones you deem appropiate into your base game.

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Since many of these 'add-ons' have been available nearly since launch, I'm not sure they will become 'standard practice' and players will be 'left behind'.ArenaNet encourages the creation of apps using the API; that's why they released it. (They are not against the ToS.)

Here's some information: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/APIThere's even an API sub-forum on this very forum.

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tl;dr there's nothing to see here. Plug-ins, overlays, and other sorts of 3rd party tools are here to stay. ANet's okay with this; the OP could be, too.

@"Shiyo.3578" said:The amount of addons for this game is getting overboard,Is it? There are only a tiny number.

they offer a huge advantage over people using the base game.Do they? You'd have to define "advantage" in a way that rules out faster hard drives, beefier CPUs, better internet connections, and living closer to the Amazon's servers.

Either officially support addons via an in game UI with a trusted store like the google store/apple store, or start to ban these.A "trusted store" requires hiring people to vet the apps, for malware, for stability, for compatibility with future updates (adds on can break without a headsup from ANet) and that last means NDAs (so more legal fees). Banning requires spending more effort on detection methods, more investigations, and more appeals.

And in the end, how does the game benefit from that?

There's addons that:Help you finish map completion for core tyria in less than half the time.There are overlays that make available quick routes. That is literally the same as what people with double monitors can manage now, using anyone's map. At best, it's more convenient: the reduction in time isn't 50%. These use ANet's official API for mumble and ANet's official API for location of landmarks. People who can save 50% on map completion generally don't need the overlay.

Make it easier to mount via radial menus.(Should be in the base game)Actually, no. I can swap mounts as quickly using clever keyboard mapping. I'm in favor of ANet adding this to the game; in the meantime, I don't begrudge someone else the convenience.

Damage meters(these are fine tbh though)Why are those fine? If addons are bad (and DPS meters are definitely addons), what is different about a DPS meter?

Markers on the map for gather routesAgain, that's no different from what's available via two monitors or alt-tab.

(should be base in the game).Why?

As well as many others I don't even know about.If you don't know about them, I hardly think you can offer an objective opinion about whether they are bad for the game or not.

If you continue to ignore them, they will only get more and more complex and automated and there will be so many of them you won't be able to keep track.You might not be able to keep track. Others in the community have no trouble doing so. I doubt very much if it's beyond ANet's abilities to do so.

It will become standard practice to use tons of these for usersNo, clearly it has not become standard practice even today, nearly 7 years into the game's life.

despite them being "against the rules"They aren't "against the rules." They are "use at your own risk."Anyone using tools that are against the rules... those people already get suspended or banned.

and people who play legit will be left behind or mocked for not using them.That happens in games with their own add ons; it says more about the person doing the mocking than it does about the game or the person choosing not to use them.

And no one is getting "left behind." There's nothing in the game that requires these.

It's time to crack down on these 3rd party tools that are against the TOS.
3rd party tools are generally not against the ToS; that's a mistake in your assumptions. Those tools that are against the rules ... well they don't need a new one.

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Found the salty fractal pug that got kicked for not pulling their weight.

Jokes aside, I don't use addons. But I don't see a problem with other people using them. ArcDPS aside which is essential for optimizing how you play, just about every other addons out there is merely QoL or simply overlays onto your screen what anyone else can simply /wiki

Stop acting as though what you dislike is somehow a problem for everyone. It's fair to have an opinion about addons. But it's not fair to slander the existence of addons and those who use them.

The addons/tools that ARE unfair and fly against ToS is something anet already bans for. For example, it's okay to have a program that launches multiple accounts and makes multiboxing easier. It is not okay to control them all simultaneously through a problem that transmits keystrokes to each instance of GW2.

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Most add-ons really just makes it so people who use them don't need to use two monitors actively, or alt tab, or memorizing things. Routes can just be memorized, and information from most add-ons (aside for dps) can be viewed just as easily by people with two monitors.

If your issue is people having an advantage over others, then add-ons alone wouldn't be your issue. Even outside of tech specs (PC+Internet+Location) you still have individual differences, and even within the game there are options that are off by default that when used are advantageous based on some of your examples. This would mean even supporting them in the game officially, and leaving it as an option for people to add it to the game wouldn't even solve this apparent problem you have, as people who don't use add-ons or alter their game settings still would not use add-ons, and as such, would still be disadvantaged. In the end, it would just create a resource sink for ArenaNet with no return on the investment.

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@"steki.1478" said:How do any of these affect the way you play the game if you're not using them?

Unfair advantage in the sense that other people can exploit faster node runs because they essentially have an overlay that shows them exactly where they are and the fastest path to them where as others have to run around aimlessly until they find them all.

Toxicity bred from some players who use 3rd party tools to check other peoples stats, gear, damage etc and then criticize them for not playing upto "thier level" and maxing their DPS rotations etc when for the most part the players being attacked are only playing for fun and don't care about hitting the expected benchmarks set by the toxic players. (I have personally been on the reciving end of this testing a new build in dungeon content.. seriously.. a DPS elitist in dungeon content.)

Those were the first 2 that came to mind.. there's probably other good reasons.For the most part though I agree with those saying that some of these 3rd party mods are pretty good QOL improvements and they should be implimented into the game.The mount wheel thing for example is a great QOL idea.

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@Samuel.4812 said:None of the add-ons you mentioned affect competitive modes.

Anything that effects pvp or wvw should be banned but other than that the guy two posts up has it all down.

TacO does have markers for the various objectives, RI counter, and who controls it. But you see EVERY objective on the map which can make your screen cluttered.

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@"Teratus.2859" said:Toxicity bred from some players who use 3rd party tools to check other peoples stats, gear, damage etc and then criticize them for not playing upto "thier level" and maxing their DPS rotations etc when for the most part the players being attacked are only playing for fun and don't care about hitting the expected benchmarks set by the toxic players. (I have personally been on the reciving end of this testing a new build in dungeon content.. seriously.. a DPS elitist in dungeon content.)

Thank you. I agree. Enabling toxic behaviour shouldn't be allowed.

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@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:tl;dr there's nothing to see here. Plug-ins, overlays, and other sorts fo 3rd party tools are here~~ to stay.~~ ANet's okay with this; the OP should be, too.

Yes, the tools are here. If ANet is OK with this ?!? (btw, it is OK with a violation of it own rules), this does not mean anyone should be OK - OP included. This is the most normal thing in a normal society: to not agree with what you consider abnormal.

@"Shiyo.3578" said:The amount of addons for this game is getting overboard,Is it? There are only a tiny number.

The sheer number is not important. To break a rule ONE exception is enough. So, if ONE third party add-on works for this game, that means the OP statement is correct.I saw something about playing a lawyer. What about something like:"The Prosecutor: This man is a murderer. He killed people!The Defender: It is? He killed only a few!"

they offer a huge advantage over people using the base game.Do they? You'd have to define "advantage" in a way that rules out faster hard drives, beefier CPUs, better internet connections, and living closer to the Amazon's servers.

I will try: Let's suppose
TWO
persons playing from the same location (two twin brothers). Using the same machine for playing. And the same internet connection. Playing alternatively - one in the morning, the other in the afternoon, the same number of hours each. One is using the add-ons to find the SkyScale eggs (or to cure the Skyscales / or to gather scales). The other is not using any add-on. Who do you think will complete the collection faster?

And, btw, mixing the third party software with the hardware architecture of a machine is not a good way of trying to combat the OP statements. Because, you know the game named GW2 has no hardware included. It is a pure piece of software.Did you see any complain from OP regarding the fact that other player lives closer to the Amazon servers? Or that the weather on other players country is colder and the cooling of the PC is better, this allowing a better performance? I did not.

Either officially support addons via an in game UI with a trusted store like the google store/apple store, or start to ban these.A "trusted store" requires hiring people to vet the apps, for malware, for stability, for compatibility with future updates (adds on can break without a headsup from ANet) and that last means NDAs (so more legal fees). Banning requires spending more effort on detection methods, more investigations, and more appeals.

And in the end, how does the game benefit from that?

I think you nailed it =) ANet
may
have some expenses to clean the game from third party dirty. But we wrongly think they are too lazy. They are not. They care about the money much more than about the players. So, I will try to reword your last sentence:"
And in the end, how does ANet benefit from that?
"

(should be base in the game).Why?

Why not?

despite them being "against the rules"They aren't "against the rules." They are "use at your own risk."Anyone using tools that are against the rules... those people already get suspended or banned.

LOL? Are you sure? By this "They aren't "against the rules." They are "use at your own risk." you demolished any of your previous attempts to defend the use of the third-party software in this game =) So, ANet, by its own will and with its own approval, accepts that by using the GW2 game (its own software) with all the officially accepted add-ons puts you, your computer, your personal and professional data stored to a risk? ARE YOU SURE you wanted to write what you wrote? Usually the software putting you and your PC to a risk are called "malware". And are not considered legal software. And now we found that ANet is
selling
malware?

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@"Stalkingwolf.6035" said:Ban 2nd monitor too!and all those guides!

srsly. where to start and where to end?Taco markers you use two times and you know where to run.Its the same as watching a guide on youtube on the 2nd monitor

You don't understand the point of this debate. It is not about hardware. You can use as many monitors as you want. This debate is about software. Pieces of code running on your computer. And giving you a clear advantage over the players don't using them. You don't believe me? Look at your own statement:"Taco markers you use two times and you know where to run". And now: what about not using the markers? How will be you able to know where to run? And how long it will take to learn where to run?

Conclusion - nobody complained about the hardware. One, two, ... ten monitors, it is up to you. Normal cooling fan, water cooling system, liquid gas cooling system - it is up to you - you will not find the way to the third egg faster in this way. Normal CPU or overclocked CPU - it is up to you.

But third party software putting me at risk in a game sold as "safe" and giving me a clear advantage over the other players don't using it .... this is not OK.

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@Vyrulisse.1246 said:Tac0 markers are literally in-game advantages and cheating over those that don't have them. Especially for Adventures, Races, Holiday events and Jumping Puzzles.

But the thing is none of those activities are competitive events so it doesn't matter if someone else has an advantage over me. The only exception I can think of is the beetle races where you do actually get more rewards for finishing in the top three. But that's a really marginal example . . .

As to the OP's concern I don't think a compelling case can be made that anet's current policy of allowing everything unless it is banned is demonstrably better (or worse) from a gameplay perspective than the OP's proposed policy of banning everything unless it is allowed. But anet's policy is far superior from a business perspective, saves a lot of time and resources and achieves roughly the same result . . .

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After read post I see only that:Save the world! Save nature ! Don't buy second monitor! Use TACO!

Anyway topic creator don't know about API sub forum and don't understand for that purpose it done ?

and one more:and about dps meter, few times I was in pt that don't use it, and I don't like that.How they test ? on cm100 on 66 they send each dps to kill elites 1 by 1. After that that gg.Think. Discuss. Kick. Take other. Again. And again. Til that moment that find that they want.This is real toxic and that moments can break some pug people at all. We need that ?

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