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Never-Ending Discussion [Optimization and API update] with Past Official Statements


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Hi,I would like to share official optimization and API statements from Anet since the release of GW2 and open it for discussion again.

Here first one from 2012, right after release of the game, performance was an issue on release too: https://www.facebook.com/GuildWars2/photos/for-those-of-you-who-have-been-asking-about-dx11-support-for-guild-wars-2-our-go/10151048222709209/

Here second one from 2015: https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3ajnso/bad_optimalization_in_gw2/csdnn3n/

I don't recall any other official statements from Anet about optimization or API update and if i am right, i think we would get another official statement after 4 years from the last one.

I think 2012's official comment is already obsolete since WinXP usage was around %40 and decreasing in 2012 but today WinXP usage almost non-exist.And 2015's comment on reddit made obsolete by https://github.com/megai2/d912pxy modification. Seems a fan made modification can get you up to %30 performance increase.

Performance is main issue, but on the other hand, some graphical capabilities already showing it's age. For example, especially after release of flying mounts griffon and skyscale, limits of draw distance become more obvious.

Thank you...

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In POF maps my CPU goes from 35-40 degrees to 45-50And they look visually better.But I would very much like to see massive performance optimization. Why? Because I have seen players playing the game on max everything, on 1440p or 4k and they have absolute trash FPS (in some cases under 30) at some boss fights or WvW blob fights. Their PC costs more then 3k-4k $ and is made from 2019 hardware while the game is 2012.Optimization would be great!

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With no new title on the horizon (if the claims during the layoffs are to be believed) anet needs to refocus on gw2 with more than just content. Even tho i think the game visually is holding well compaired to games younger than it i still believe a move to newer tools would be massively beneficial to the game and its popularity.

Completely agree with the OP, even if its hard to make happen the incentive is there and the older the game gets the more it needs it.

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DX12 API for GW2: https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/bkk2lf/d912pxy_dx12_for_gw2_new_beta_v099/

Now if a modder can make something like this work, and with proof, I don't see why Anet can't do this or try to make this DX12 API much more stable and work perfectly. Reason I can't use it is because I use Reshade to make GW2 look so much better, and Reshade only works with DX9,10,11.

There is a difference:

Video from Reddit
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@Tony.8659 said:Now if a modder can make something like this work, and with proof, I don't see why Anet can't do thisThe modder has explained why they can do it and ANet cannot.

The short version is:

  • the modder just has to make it stable enough; ANet has to make it work for everyone, all sorts of machines, all sorts of circumstances, with 99.99999% uptime
  • the modder doesn't have to worry about memory/data transfer except for their own app; ANet has to worry about it for the entire game
  • the modder doesn't have to QA the entire game, just their app; ANet has to check everything for artifacts/issues, everywhere
  • ANet would have to modify early source code (or adjust for it), without all the original devs in order to identify all the potential issues/assumptions.
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Well clearly Anet had more than enough time to try to use Dx12. There should have been a team assigned to try to bring DX12 to GW2. Look at WoW it uses DX12 now and that game is from 2004. There is no "can't" they (Anet) can "try". They need to take advantage of multi-core systems. Once that mod seems stable enough I'm going to use it. Also there is a work around to get Reshade to work with this mod, but I need to wait until it's perfected.

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WoW had DX11 support since 2010 and dropped DX9 support and will drop 32-bit support with 8.2 patch.ESO dropped DX9, DX10 and 32 bit support on 2017.FFO will drop DX9 and 32-bit support with Shadowbringers expansion.

Isn't this pattern clear enough, whole industry moving somewhere. Even if changing API would not benefit on anything in-game (graphics, performance etc.) at least it would be prestigious.

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@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@Tony.8659 said:Now if a modder can make something like this work, and with proof, I don't see why Anet can't do thisThe modder has explained why they can do it and ANet cannot.

The short version is:
  • the modder just has to make it stable enough; ANet has to make it work for everyone, all sorts of machines, all sorts of circumstances, with 99.99999% uptime
  • the modder doesn't have to worry about memory/data transfer except for their own app; ANet has to worry about it for the entire game
  • the modder doesn't have to QA the entire game, just their app; ANet has to check everything for artifacts/issues, everywhere
  • ANet would have to modify early source code (or adjust for it), without all the original devs in order to identify all the potential issues/assumptions.

Cannot and not wanting to are very different things.Anet simply don't want to.

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  • 1 year later...

@Miasmus.2364 said:WoW had DX11 support since 2010 and dropped DX9 support and will drop 32-bit support with 8.2 patch.ESO dropped DX9, DX10 and 32 bit support on 2017.FFO will drop DX9 and 32-bit support with Shadowbringers expansion.

Isn't this pattern clear enough, whole industry moving somewhere. Even if changing API would not benefit on anything in-game (graphics, performance etc.) at least it would be prestigious.

All of those games have subscription models which probably bring in a lot more money which would allow those studios to have the resources available to make these kinds of changes.

I really wish people would stop using these games as comparisons to GW2.

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@Miasmus.2364 said:Also, we are missing another point, DX9 is released with WinXP and WinXP support is ceased. What if Microsoft suddenly decides to cease support on DX9 and phase out it on Win10?They would still have to deal with a ton of Win7 and 8.1 users that have no access to dx12. Xp is no longer a serious consideration for anything, even for gw2 (client is 64 bit now, remember?), but Win 7 (and, although to a much lesser degree, win 8.1) still are.

Notice by the way, that, even though Microsoft introduced some ways to use dx12 calls on win 7, it doesn't work for win 8.1. That's why d912pxy works for windows 7 now (even if in a limited capacity), but doesn't work for 8.1.

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@Miasmus.2364 said:Also, we are missing another point, DX9 is released with WinXP and WinXP support is ceased. What if Microsoft suddenly decides to cease support on DX9 and phase out it on Win10?

Guild Wars 2 dropped support for Windows XP in 2017 with the release of Path of Fire (minimum: Windows® 7 or better (64 bit only))

Windows XP is still included in Heart of Thorns requirements (Windows® XP Service Pack 3 or better) which is probably why we don't see a graphical update for the Core game of Heart of Thorns (at least to bring it to the same level as Path of Fire)

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@kharmin.7683 said:

@Miasmus.2364 said:WoW had DX11 support since 2010 and dropped DX9 support and will drop 32-bit support with 8.2 patch.ESO dropped DX9, DX10 and 32 bit support on 2017.FFO will drop DX9 and 32-bit support with Shadowbringers expansion.

Isn't this pattern clear enough, whole industry moving somewhere. Even if changing API would not benefit on anything in-game (graphics, performance etc.) at least it would be prestigious.

All of those games have subscription models which probably bring in a lot more money which would allow those studios to have the resources available to make these kinds of changes.

I really wish people would stop using these games as comparisons to GW2.

Anet states that GW2 is a AAA MMO like those games. So making comparisons to those games is perfectly fine, since Anet claims GW2 is on par with them.

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@SpyderArachnid.5619 said:

@Miasmus.2364 said:WoW had DX11 support since 2010 and dropped DX9 support and will drop 32-bit support with 8.2 patch.ESO dropped DX9, DX10 and 32 bit support on 2017.FFO will drop DX9 and 32-bit support with Shadowbringers expansion.

Isn't this pattern clear enough, whole industry moving somewhere. Even if changing API would not benefit on anything in-game (graphics, performance etc.) at least it would be prestigious.

All of those games have subscription models which probably bring in a lot more money which would allow those studios to have the resources available to make these kinds of changes.

I really wish people would stop using these games as comparisons to GW2.

Anet states that GW2 is a AAA MMO like those games. So making comparisons to those games is perfectly fine, since Anet claims GW2 is on par with them.

Citation please?

You seem to be making a very broad statement. If GW2 were like WoW, we wouldn't have so many posts clamoring for changes in GW2 to make it like WoW. Sure, ANet wants GW2 to be considered in the same category as other AAA MMO games, but that doesn't mean that the games are 100% identical. GW2 is in the same genre, but the business model that Anet has for their game is unlike Blizzard's.

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Never said they are trying to be just like those games, just that they are on the same level as them (expected quality). We should expect the same work and quality that those games put out, from GW2, as it claims to be on par with them. Regardless of their business model, the quality should be up there like other AAA MMOs. Otherwise GW2 falls into the category of F2P grinders (which is what GW2 has become).

Getting back on topic, there are plenty of other games that are not subscription based MMOs that have adapted higher DirectX. Even F2P MMOs have that option, along with many single player games. The point of the whole thread is, other companies have long since gotten with the times, yet Anet hasn't. They keep adding more and more onto an outdated engine that doesn't support it and it keeps degrading the game further and further with each release. They need to upgrade.

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