TIL the true difference between a PvP tournament winner and a WvW roamer

[Sniper.5961]

@"EremiteAngel.9765" said:I've fought my fair share of holosmiths from top roaming guilds in WvW.And usually on my necro, I am able to put up a decent fight.

Earlier I fought a HOD Low rank holosmith and he left me feeling totally helpless. And he stomped me with a PvP tournament champion finisher.

There used to be an old debate on whether PvP or WvW had the better skilled players.

And based on that earlier encounter, I surmise that even WvW roamers from top roaming guilds still have a Long way to go to match the skills of PvP champions.

And this has piqued my interest in PvP.I'm going there guys to hone my skills against the best.

Adios and best wishes from your friendly Neighbourhood Necromancer.

are you sure it was a world tournament series finisher for 1-3 place or a international all stars finisher and not one of these ?https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/European_World_Tournament_Finisherhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/North_American_World_Tournament_Finisherhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chinese_World_Tournament_Finisher

Because these 3 where in the gem shop and look really simmilar to the world tournament series finishers and mean nothing because everybody could buy them.

[Justine.6351]

You mean WvW roamers are not the pinnacle of 1v1? Who would have thought Xv1 heroes, bunker facetankers and runaway masters have not actually learned how to legitimately fight an even duel.

[pukish.5784]

The frog in the well knows nothing of the great ocean.

[alain.1659]

We do not see eye to eye in most cases but I wish you to have fun in pvp. I always play spvp when I want to learn a profession and it really helps. Combined with wvw tricks and terrain knowledge it really contributes to your skill. I learned ele, thief and guardian in spvp and I am quite confident in ele, ok ish in other two( nerfs and changing styles)

Have fun, learn more and improve :)

[Warkind.6745]

I go to PvP on my thief sometimes to practice my camp capturing technique. I used to stand right in the center like a complete amateur but I've since discovered that the most optimal technique is hugging the edge so I can get to the nearest sentry 0.50s sooner.

[KryTiKaL.3125]

@"Justine.6351" said:You mean WvW roamers are not the pinnacle of 1v1? Who would have thought Xv1 heroes, bunker facetankers and runaway masters have not actually learned how to legitimately fight an even duel.

"runaway masters" you mean people who are intelligent enough to disengage/kite?

How dare a class utilize one of its strengths effectively in a fight.

Unless you're referring to people who purposefully run entirely Out of Combat, in which case the ones I see do that are mostly thieves/rangers.

[Justine.6351]

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:

@"Justine.6351" said:You mean WvW roamers are not the pinnacle of 1v1? Who would have thought Xv1 heroes, bunker facetankers and runaway masters have not actually learned how to legitimately fight an even duel.

"runaway masters" you mean people who are intelligent enough to disengage/kite?

How

dare

a class utilize one of its strengths effectively in a fight.

Unless you're referring to people who purposefully run entirely Out of Combat

, in which case the ones I see do that are mostly thieves/rangers.

Obviously

[KryTiKaL.3125]

@Justine.6351 said:

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:

@Justine.6351 said:You mean WvW roamers are not the pinnacle of 1v1? Who would have thought Xv1 heroes, bunker facetankers and runaway masters have not actually learned how to legitimately fight an even duel.

"runaway masters" you mean people who are intelligent enough to disengage/kite?

How

dare

a class utilize one of its strengths effectively in a fight.

Unless you're referring to people who purposefully run entirely Out of Combat

, in which case the ones I see do that are mostly thieves/rangers.

Obviously

Well then thankfully thats only a handful of people and they aren't very good anyway.

[Justine.6351]

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:

@Justine.6351 said:

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:

@Justine.6351 said:You mean WvW roamers are not the pinnacle of 1v1? Who would have thought Xv1 heroes, bunker facetankers and runaway masters have not actually learned how to legitimately fight an even duel.

"runaway masters" you mean people who are intelligent enough to disengage/kite?

How

dare

a class utilize one of its strengths effectively in a fight.

Unless you're referring to people who purposefully run entirely Out of Combat

, in which case the ones I see do that are mostly thieves/rangers.

Obviously

Well then thankfully thats only a handful of people and they aren't very good anyway.

do you even roam? thats like every other solo person you come across lol...

[Kovu.7560]

I have no doubt the average pvp player is better at pvp than the average wvw player.I suspect the gap between the average pvp player and the average wvw roamer is somewhat closer.Of course there's plenty of bleedover.

~ Kovu

[KryTiKaL.3125]

@Justine.6351 said:

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:

@Justine.6351 said:

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:

@Justine.6351 said:You mean WvW roamers are not the pinnacle of 1v1? Who would have thought Xv1 heroes, bunker facetankers and runaway masters have not actually learned how to legitimately fight an even duel.

"runaway masters" you mean people who are intelligent enough to disengage/kite?

How

dare

a class utilize one of its strengths effectively in a fight.

Unless you're referring to people who purposefully run entirely Out of Combat

, in which case the ones I see do that are mostly thieves/rangers.

Obviously

Well then thankfully thats only a handful of people and they aren't very good anyway.

do you even roam? thats like every other solo person you come across lol...

The ones you catch off their mount? Somewhat. If they are on their mount? Yeah they usually just run.

[subversiontwo.7501]

This is a pretty oddly phrased thread.

Granted, sPvP may be more based around 1v1 duels in its core gameplay (nodes etc.) while WvW offers a completely different core gameplay with ambushes and more teamfights even when roaming.

At the same time, at least in the EU, there has always been a good amount of players in the better roaming- and GvG guilds who enjoy duels and areas like Alpine south camp or the outer walls of SM are still to this day crowded from time to time. Those players are, unsurprisingly, pretty good at duelling. While players of the same guilds who do not enjoy duelling are far worse at it even if they are good players within their respective primary fields.

With that, in the highest echelons, there has always been some overlap with good sPvP players occassionally comming to WvW to duel and some GvG players doing well in some of the sPvP tournaments (at least after the dedicated esports scene died off there; but even when those players were around there were certainly WvW players who were, mechanically (as the sPvP players used to call it) good enough for top tier fights - they were just worse at the finer points of conquest with rotations, score awareness, intricate map knowledge and the like.

In short, while there may be few players at the respective peaks, the overlap in duelling is probably larger than one would suspect.

[Faaris.8013]

I'm never even mad when I lose a 1 vs. 1 because quite often, I see the other guy is using a 1 vs. 1 build and I'm just set up for roaming. The players at the duel spots must change gear and build when they actually play WvW. If I run around ready for 1 vs. 1 duels, I will not be able to roam, not even fight a bunch of guards without proper cleaving, not to mention a 3 vs. 3 at a camp.

Fighting someone in a duel is just that, a duel. It has little to do with general skill at WvW. I'm not saying that those PvP players are bad, they are certainly not. Just don't measure your WvW skill in comparison to duelling 1 vs. 1.

[SoV.5139]

I agree.

Most of the roamers are on PVP optimized builds ganking support builds who are running back to their zerg. The PVPers are actually playing a mode that supports isolated 1v1s alot more, build for it far more often, and seek a challenge.

[TheGrimm.5624]

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:I've fought my fair share of holosmiths from top roaming guilds in WvW.And usually on my necro, I am able to put up a decent fight.

Earlier I fought a HOD Low rank holosmith and he left me feeling totally helpless. And he stomped me with a PvP tournament champion finisher.

There used to be an old debate on whether PvP or WvW had the better skilled players.

And based on that earlier encounter, I surmise that even WvW roamers from top roaming guilds still have a Long way to go to match the skills of PvP champions.

And this has piqued my interest in PvP.I'm going there guys to hone my skills against the best.

Adios and best wishes from your friendly Neighbourhood Necromancer.

Might as well stick around, PvP ranked season has ended for a few weeks. And, why not do both? Outside of your availability they work well together. Admit some nights will roam and queue for PvP while roaming. After they added remote queuing and you retain your participation it's all the better.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

@beatthedown.2651 said:

@"enkidu.5937" said:blabla nerf this actually subpar build

Can this forum not create a Soulbeast debate for

a minute

?

The thing about "duelists" in WvW (those who only do 1v1s at the dueling place) often hide behind pretty broken builds and damage reduction food. I could go full cele Druid and not die while boring my opponent to death. In reality, a good roamer needs a versatile build with mobility that can also handle multiple opponents. I don't think you can compare those two gamemodes very well, since it's, outside of 1v1s, a very different playstyle. In terms of skill the very (consistent) top players can probably outplay 99% of the roamers with ease. But if you go a bit down towards average platinum skill level, there is not really a difference most of the time.

4k autos from longbow soulbeast is REALLY low.

I get normaly hit for 8k+ on full minstel gear.

[Blockhead Magee.3092]

I've ran into a few of those top PvP players while roaming in WvW and they are just better and timing their skills than most of us. WvW gives us more options (buffs depending on where the fight is), npcs, if you're specced as a true roamer vs some group build.

[Jen.6021]

Bronze division is waiting for you!

[Engal.6359]

Its time for you wvw people to accept that pvpers are simply superior. No contest. End of story. ?

[Soulock.1752]

I sometimes play my Power Core Mesmer in PvP, it helped me improve teamwork (including when to use Mass Invisibility) and learned how to fight in narrow space against classes that has insane AoE damage ? which also teach me not to be too greedy and fight with patience.

Is very rare to see Necro in PvP (Except Scourge and Reaper that benefit in PvP maps that is small with tight spaces for them to be very serious threat) wish you well on your journey =w=?

[Dawdler.8521]

@Engal.6359 said:Its time for you wvw people to accept that pvpers are simply superior. No contest. End of story. ?Only at PvP!

Wait...

[Silinsar.6298]

@Engal.6359 said:Its time for you wvw people to accept that pvpers are simply superior. No contest. End of story. ?

I think he's trying to say that WvW players don't contest points enough and that is the sole reason of them being inferior in a conquest PvP mode. I could agree with that ;)

[Clownmug.8357]

@Silinsar.6298 said:

@Engal.6359 said:Its time for you wvw people to accept that pvpers are simply superior. No contest. End of story. ?

I think he's trying to say that WvW players don't contest points enough and that is the sole reason of them being inferior in a conquest PvP mode. I could agree with that ;)

Yeah, there's no doubt that pvpers are the best at standing in circles.

[alcopaul.2156]

Post a YouTube Video Of You Killing The EBG Overgrown Grub SOLO without glitching it (making it idle) and you are automatically the greatest WvWvW/PvE/PvP player of all time..

yeah, of all time...

and by greatest I mean greatest that is incremental. you can be the second greatest, or the third greatest (…)

just post your youtube video

k?

[Silinsar.6298]

@"beatthedown.2651" said:The thing about "duelists" in WvW (those who only do 1v1s at the dueling place) often hide behind pretty broken builds and damage reduction food. I could go full cele Druid and not die while boring my opponent to death. In reality, a good roamer needs a versatile build with mobility that can also handle multiple opponents. I don't think you can compare those two gamemodes very well, since it's, outside of 1v1s, a very different playstyle. In terms of skill the very (consistent) top players can probably outplay 99% of the roamers with ease. But if you go a bit down towards average platinum skill level, there is not really a difference most of the time.

@"Blockhead Magee.3092" said:I've ran into a few of those top PvP players while roaming in WvW and they are just better and timing their skills than most of us. WvW gives us more options (buffs depending on where the fight is), npcs, if you're specced as a true roamer vs some group build.

One thing to note when you only compare "top" sPvP players with roamers: most of the roamers you're going to meet aren't "top". So it's a no wonder that the best sPvP will beat most WvW roamers, the best WvW roamers will also beat most average sPvP players. Say you compare the top 100 ranked players with hypothetical top 100 roamers: assuming roamers are distributed between servers and maps, there'd be only a few per map and only if they're currently playing and roaming. And then you'd have to meet them open field with even numbers and with builds that are somewhat fair matchups, to really get the impression that player is decent. And then there's still the 33% chance that roamer is on your server, so you're not getting to fight each other.

In sPvP there's matchmaking, so when you get better, you get matched against better players. There might be 90% little experienced players in sPvP but you don't get to meet them, whereas in WvW roaming you're dealing with the whole spectrum. This probably plays a big role in people believing that the "average" player in sPvP is generally better, while it's only the average player of those they get to fight that is going to be better. Even though matchmaking isn't perfect, it's just so much more likely to fight players on your level in sPvP when you're above average.

Edit: removed math brain fart.