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[SPOILERS] The Regress in the Story


Shortage.5427

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A random guy commenting on the vanilla story of Guild Wars 2."I actually prefer that you don't fight Zhaitan "one-on-one, climactic prophecy showdown blah blah". I mean, you spent the whole game uniting all these allies, and almost everyone emphasizes how important working together and uniting against the dragons is. Being just the commander, and not some demigod Dragonborn-esque figure really draws that unity out."

Why did Anet threw all that away? We actually killed a God and then we killed a Dragon in a 1v1 showdown along side a deus ex machina dragon. This is sad, for everything they have ever build for. In Heart of Thorns we still had that collective victory against modremoths mouth and we introduced the concept of the death to him with the sacrifice of our Precious ally.Now Path of fire is filled with one dimensional characters that I am supposed to give a sht about, when they contribute nothing in the long term of the story. Treahearn united the Guilds of Priory, Vigil and Whisperers with their combined strength they killed Zhaitan and Modremoth. In Path of Fire there is no such feeling. "Hurr Commander this and durr Commander that". There is no impact, no backbone into the concequences of what everyone is doing. Honestly the regress that the story has taken puts me off making me want to 'let's just get over this part to get the region'. Let's not even get to the Regions meta event, which is shallow as hell.

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First of all you are downplaying everything. I can do that too a hobbit threw a ring in a volcano and everything was K afterwards.Zhaitan fight was not finished there was supposed to have a Dragon lair part in Arah that was never made cause i'll assume money and time.The "GOD" was just depowered mistwalker at this point and still managed to woop the commander's ass twice with no trouble and the third battle went better cause of tips from certain somewhat useless goddess and help from juvenile dragon (which is not deus ex cause it has predetermined powers before the event) , while said "GOD" is with his pants down playing magic tug of war with an Elder dragon. This all happens while the awaikened and the guild are keeping the Forged occupied i can't deny that a map meta event would be good as part next to the personal story.For the living world story we are back to creating the pact of Elona of sorts and defeating the villain. I feel bad that they killed off Joko cause he really felt like a good choice for recurring bad guy, i hope they do something for Halloween with Mad King Thorn vs Palawa Joko.For the consequences everything that is written till now has backfired someway after time so next season the commander will be fixing the unforeseen mess he did this one.The Commander switches between protagonist to supporting character in the final instances of the Story. The player character is written like a cliche super hero who is there to guide those who lost hope and yada yada. Just look the story as a Saturday morning cartoon and the expansion like a cartoon movie and enjoy. The whole thing with seasons spells it out.

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No one can please Greeks and Trojans at same time.There were complaints of commander not being "special snowflake enough" in the fight against Zhaitan.I also particularly like the campaign against Zhaitan and i detest these fashions copied from american netflix series., but there was a demand from the playerbase to had more protagonism on commander.

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Oh ya know 1v1 aside fromAurene doing most of the work.Couple of legendary heroes getting us to that point.Airships constantly pelting kralk from above.The might of a full frontal assault from 5 armies.The strength of a couple of dragon killing weapons.And of course kralk had one of his limbs torn off before all of this and had a landmass fall on top of him.Not to forget the pact actually physically killed him before we do all the magic sucking buissnes.The presentation definitely makes it look like we are doing alot and are the sole hero of this journey, but honestly :[ we get alot of help.

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Balthazar was more of a three on one. Kralkatorrik, Aurene, the Commander (wielding an ancient divine weapon) fighting against a fallen god (he was no longer a god) and a mechanical beast.

Kralkatorrik, like Zhaitan and Mordremoth, still took an army to take down. While it was Aurene and the Commander at the heart of things - similar to it being the Commander and two allies in Mordremoth's mind - it still took an army to kill the body. And Aurene as an ally, whether an infant or teenager, is no laughing matter.

Zhaitan's battle was so distant, in large, because as Vancho said, it was left incomplete. There was intended to be a second phase, apparently, where we get up and personal to fight Zhaitan. In all honesty, the original planned Zhaitan fight seemed very similar to the first and third stages of the Deathwing fight in WoW (the first being from a massive airship fighting a horde of minions while cannons bombard the dragon, the second being on the dragon's back to weaken it, and the third being on the ground to finish off its weakened state; in comparison, ArenaNet combined the first two phases, letting the airship weaken the dragon instead of climbing on its deformed, twisted, back, though if they had kept the original design that might have even been planned too....).

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Against Mordremoth and Kralkatorrik, there is incredibly explicit dialogue and actions that showcase that while the commander is off doing this specific task near the dragon (that ultimately finishes it off), the gathered armies are outside bombarding and fighting it with everything they have.

The commander is not some demigod dragonborn super figure, just a very skilled, powerful and experienced figure who is in the right spot at the right time during these events. The PC has made mistakes and can be beat.

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The meta event itself is part of the story but it's disjointed from the actual story quests we get from the hero panel since it would mean we would need to do the meta at least once before progressing to the story which a good number of people would prefer not to do (they just want to progress story without having the need to do meta).

The whole Dragonfall and Dragon Stand metas are the same in essence to the story: the ground troops work to prepare for the fight against the Elder Dragon on the outside (the meta) whilst the Commander is preparing to fight the Elder Dragon from within (storyline quest, so Mordremoth's mind and Kralkatorrik's heart).

Basically put, if we're doing the meta, we're part of the ground troop working to fight the Elder Dragon on the surface, if we're doing the story, we're the story's Pact Commander. So yeah, it's a disjointed way of telling the story.

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@ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:The meta event itself is part of the story but it's disjointed from the actual story quests we get from the hero panel since it would mean we would need to do the meta at least once before progressing to the story which a good number of people would prefer not to do (they just want to progress story without having the need to do meta).

The whole Dragonfall and Dragon Stand metas are the same in essence to the story: the ground troops work to prepare for the fight against the Elder Dragon on the outside (the meta) whilst the Commander is preparing to fight the Elder Dragon from within (storyline quest, so Mordremoth's mind and Kralkatorrik's heart).

Indeed. They made partaking in metas a requirement in Season 1, and it wasn't very well recieved overall. Luckily, they had designed it (eventually?) to also include failures for metas count as progression in the story. But those metas happened hourly, iirc, while Dragon's Stand is bi-hourly and Dragonfall is erratic. So it'd be harder to justify such.

But Dragonfall's meta, by the sounds of it, happens during the same timeframe as between Bleed and Descent story steps as there are new dragonsblood spears used iirc, and Descent has Kralkatorrik in his crystallized cocoon which happens at the end of the meta. In Descent, when the Pact are attacking Kralkatorrik, they succeed in killing the body while during the meta, it's always a failure.

Both Dragon's Stand's and Dragonfall's metas effectively occur multiple times. In Dragon's Stand's case, it seems to occur once before, once during, and once after Hearts and Minds, while with Dragonfall's it happens at least once before, and once during Descent.

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In no way were these encounters a 1v1 situation.

Zhaitan suffered from a massive military campaign against him thus ending with his death.

Mordremoth suffered from a co-ordinated assault, The pact assaulting his physical form and the commander+allies assaulting his mind at the same time.

Balthazar wrecked us in 1v1 combat on more than one occasion and in the end was finally defeated by the combined forces of the Commander, Aurine and Kralkatorrik.

Kralkatorrik again like Mordremoth was assaulted from inside by the Commander + Aurine and the outside by our allied forces who continued to bombard his broken body to death.

In no case have we ever gone 1v1 with any of these main antagonists and won..We almost always have help in just about every showdown with any big bad enemy in Gw2.

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@Teratus.2859 said:In no case have we ever gone 1v1 with any of these main antagonists and won..

In fact, to expand on this, every time we do go 1v1, we lose. Mind you, the only true 1v1 battles that were had were against Balthazar and Joko. Both were losses, one of which we literally died during. One could also consider Faolain during Prized Possessions as we're alone while she chases us down, but if we bother attempting to fight her, it's instant death.

Adelbern? Five man + some of DE.Faolain first time? Five man + some of DE.Iron Forgeman? Five man + some of DE.Blightghast? We had an army.Gaheron? Five man + some of DE.Kudu? Five man + some of DE.Zhaitan? We had an army.Scarlet? First phase had an army (Prime Hologram), after she was near-fatally injured, we had Kasmeer helping us.Shadow of the Dragon? First time was aided by the Pale Tree, second time aided by Dragon's Watch (though we do the heavy lifting).Faolain? Dragon's Watch.Mordremoth? An army.Caudecus? Anise and Canach.Lazarus? Had Livia.Balthazar? When solo, we lost. When with Dragon's Watch, we lost. Only won with Aurene, Sohothin, and Kralkatorrik.Joko? Was solo, but we lost. He died to surprise Elder Dragon scion not us.Kralkatorrik? Had an army and an Elder Dragon scion.

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@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:In no case have we ever gone 1v1 with any of these main antagonists and won..

In fact, to expand on this, every time we do go 1v1,
we lose.
Mind you, the only true 1v1 battles that were had were against Balthazar and Joko. Both were losses, one of which we literally died during. One could also consider Faolain during Prized Possessions as we're alone while she chases us down, but if we bother attempting to fight her, it's instant death.

Adelbern? Five man + some of DE.Faolain first time? Five man + some of DE.Iron Forgeman? Five man + some of DE.Blightghast? We had an army.Gaheron? Five man + some of DE.Kudu? Five man + some of DE.Zhaitan? We had an army.Scarlet? First phase had an army (Prime Hologram), after she was near-fatally injured, we had Kasmeer helping us.Shadow of the Dragon? First time was aided by the Pale Tree, second time aided by Dragon's Watch (though we do the heavy lifting).Faolain? Dragon's Watch.Mordremoth? An army.Caudecus? Anise and Canach.Lazarus? Had Livia.Balthazar? When solo, we lost. When with Dragon's Watch, we lost. Only won with Aurene, Sohothin, and Kralkatorrik.Joko? Was solo, but we lost. He died to surprise Elder Dragon scion not us.Kralkatorrik? Had an army and an Elder Dragon scion.

Yep :)

Gw2's managed to maintain it's basic concept of working together when you really think about it.Even when we died and were stuck in the Underworld we had help.It's rare we're ever truly alone in story battles with powerful enemies.

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