Is Renegade shortbow Number 2 skill the worst skill between all two handed weapons in GW2?

[Leap Of Faith.8263]

Bloodbane’s Path. Is it used in any game mode? Even in casual open world?If ‘no’ then which?

[zaswer.5246]

I think the dh long bow 4 is worse.If im missing something there please tell me but an abilitie that aplies fire condi in a power build is kind of useless

[Draygorn.7012]

It's only because of how unreliable the skill is. The fact that the projectiles miss targets just because they're moving slightly is annoying.. Also if the target is sitting close to a wall or obstruction, some of the projectiles get blocked. However, I'd say SB 3 even less reliable.

[narcx.3570]

It's a big spammable part of your max dps raid rotation--you cast it 4 times per shortbow swap.

It's also fine in basically all PvE content... It's pretty simple to just not cast it on small hitbox, fast moving targets in PvE; wait to use it for when the enemy stops moving--it's all scripted and predicable (unlike PvP, where ya, this skill's tracking is bad.) The logic that this skill is useless in PvE because the arrows often miss moving targets could be applied to any ground targeted skill in the game since targets can move out of those too. Just use this skill like you use those skills, and you'll never miss. You don't have to always brainlessly use everything off cooldown. :bleep_bloop:

And for the record, even if only one arrow hits, it still does basically three times as much damage as an auto-attack would have, so it's almost always worth casting, even against moving targets.

[Kain Francois.4328]

SB2 is worst skill. Hands down. It's just the autoattack but harder to hit and slightly more dmg.

[narcx.3570]

@Kain Francois.4328 said:SB2 is worst skill. Hands down. It's just the autoattack but harder to hit and slightly more dmg.

AA: 238 (0.65) direct, One 3 second bleedSB2: 441 (1.2) direct, One 8 second bleed per arrow

That's 8 times as much damage from a full hit just from the bleeds. You'd have to only land one arrow across THREE full skill uses before this skill becomes not worth using.

[Kain Francois.4328]

@narcx.3570 said:

@Kain Francois.4328 said:SB2 is worst skill. Hands down. It's just the autoattack but harder to hit and slightly more dmg.

AA: 238 (0.65) direct, One 3 second bleedSB2: 441 (1.2) direct, One 8 second bleed per arrow

That's 8 times as much damage from a full hit just from the bleeds. You'd have to only land one arrow across THREE full skill uses before this skill becomes not worth using.

But in the time it takes to cast Sb2, you can do two autos, which is 6 second bleed.

Just buff autoattack and make SB2 do something new...

[Klypto.1703]

A lot of the weapons out there meant for condition damage actually work better with power which is amusing to me at least. The engineer main hand pistol auto attack and the shortbow auto attack do close to the same thing in that radius after it hits the target so even if you are obstructed if they are standing close enough to be in the radius they are still going to take damage. So when playing rev and people trying to free cast from the wall hit them with the #2 before they dodge backwards then kill them with the auto attack and/or citadel bombardment. the only useless thing on it is that #3 skill it always pops up to shoot in a direction where there are no enemies so you have to micromanage that skill which was always garbage.

[Scoobaniec.9561]

@Kain Francois.4328 said:

@narcx.3570 said:

@Kain Francois.4328 said:SB2 is worst skill. Hands down. It's just the autoattack but harder to hit and slightly more dmg.

AA: 238 (0.65) direct, One 3 second bleedSB2: 441 (1.2) direct, One 8 second bleed per arrow

That's 8 times as much damage from a full hit just from the bleeds. You'd have to only land one arrow across THREE full skill uses before this skill becomes not worth using.

But in the time it takes to cast Sb2, you can do two autos, which is 6 second bleed.

Just buff autoattack and make SB2 do something new...

Also doesnt consume energy. I cringe at these advices. Just dont use your skills against moving targets. Just dont use your skills against small hitbox targets. Just dont equip shortbow cuz its useless garbage.

[narcx.3570]

@Kain Francois.4328 said:But in the time it takes to cast Sb2, you can do two autos, which is 6 second bleed.Just buff autoattack and make SB2 do something new...

@Scoobaniec.9561 said:Also doesnt consume energy. I cringe at these advices. Just dont use your skills against moving targets. Just dont use your skills against small hitbox targets. Just dont equip shortbow cuz its useless garbage.

If you don't consume that energy, you won't proc Charged Mists without activating EtD earlier (which costs you a Maniacal Persistence proc) or just straight losing dps to spamming non damage skills like f2/f4. While you're probably talking about PvP, you're replying to what I said, where I was clearly talking about the skill not being useless because it's an important part of a current top dps raid rotation. (where it hits its target anyways)

I get that short bow is bad in PvP, but changing this skill won't magically fix renegade in that game mode, it could only potentially nerf it in the one game mode where it's actually S+ tier.

[Leap Of Faith.8263]

@Kain Francois.4328 said:SB2 is worst skill. Hands down. It's just the autoattack but harder to hit and slightly more dmg.

This is what it feels like.

[Kain Francois.4328]

@narcx.3570 said:

@Kain Francois.4328 said:But in the time it takes to cast Sb2, you can do two autos, which is 6 second bleed.Just buff autoattack and make SB2 do something new...

@Scoobaniec.9561 said:Also doesnt consume energy. I cringe at these advices. Just dont use your skills against moving targets. Just dont use your skills against small hitbox targets. Just dont equip shortbow cuz its useless garbage.

If you don't consume that energy, you won't proc Charged Mists without activating EtD earlier (which costs you a Maniacal Persistence proc) or just straight losing dps to spamming non damage skills like f2/f4. While you're probably talking about PvP, you're replying to what I said, where I was clearly talking about the skill not being useless because it's an important part of a current top dps raid rotation. (where it hits its target anyways)

I get that short bow is bad in PvP, but changing this skill won't magically fix renegade in that game mode, it could only potentially nerf it in the one game mode where it's actually S+ tier.

Don't cripple a weapon set because of Charged Mists. SB#2 is garbage that needs to go.

[narcx.3570]

@Kain Francois.4328 said:

@narcx.3570 said:

@Kain Francois.4328 said:But in the time it takes to cast Sb2, you can do two autos, which is 6 second bleed.Just buff autoattack and make SB2 do something new...

@Scoobaniec.9561 said:Also doesnt consume energy. I cringe at these advices. Just dont use your skills against moving targets. Just dont use your skills against small hitbox targets. Just dont equip shortbow cuz its useless garbage.

If you don't consume that energy, you won't proc Charged Mists without activating EtD earlier (which costs you a Maniacal Persistence proc) or just straight losing dps to spamming non damage skills like f2/f4. While you're probably talking about PvP, you're replying to what I said, where I was clearly talking about the skill not being useless because it's an important part of a current top dps raid rotation. (where it hits its target anyways)

I get that short bow is bad in PvP, but changing this skill won't magically fix renegade in that game mode, it could only potentially nerf it in the one game mode where it's actually S+ tier.

Don't cripple a weapon set because of Charged Mists. SB#2 is garbage that needs to go.

Only in PvP--but hey, so is 99% of renegade anyways!

Either way saying it's the worst skill in the game is just flat wrong because it's used in high end PvE content.

Look at how many weapons have exact zero competitive builds (Longbow DH comes to mind).

[Scoobaniec.9561]

@narcx.3570 said:

@Kain Francois.4328 said:

@narcx.3570 said:

@Kain Francois.4328 said:But in the time it takes to cast Sb2, you can do two autos, which is 6 second bleed.Just buff autoattack and make SB2 do something new...

@Scoobaniec.9561 said:Also doesnt consume energy. I cringe at these advices. Just dont use your skills against moving targets. Just dont use your skills against small hitbox targets. Just dont equip shortbow cuz its useless garbage.

If you don't consume that energy, you won't proc Charged Mists without activating EtD earlier (which costs you a Maniacal Persistence proc) or just straight losing dps to spamming non damage skills like f2/f4. While you're probably talking about PvP, you're replying to what I said, where I was clearly talking about the skill not being useless because it's an important part of a current top dps raid rotation. (where it hits its target anyways)

I get that short bow is bad in PvP, but changing this skill won't magically fix renegade in that game mode, it could only potentially nerf it in the one game mode where it's actually S+ tier.

Don't cripple a weapon set because of Charged Mists. SB#2 is garbage that needs to go.

Only in PvP--but hey, so is 99% of renegade anyways!

Either way saying it's the worst skill in the game is just flat wrong because it's used in high end PvE content.

Look at how many weapons have exact zero competitive builds (Longbow DH comes to mind).

Its used cause there is no other choice LOL. That skill is potato in open pve world vs anything that moves. Pair that with sevenshot being even worse and bingo. You have worst weapon in game. Look, idc about raids that is played by a maybe 1% of playerbase. You can camp mace/axe and be just fine. These skills have to be reworked. An who said they would have to lower dmg or something with a rework? Nobody.People like you are the reason why rev is in current state honestly speaking. Lots of current rev mechanics wouldnt be accepted if it was done in other classes (jfl at sword dmg split).

[Kain Francois.4328]

@Scoobaniec.9561 said:Pair that with sevenshot being even worse and bingo.

Sevenshot is at least an interesting mechanic that takes skill to play. It also does a HUGE amount of damage! Consider its maximum effectiveness on huge hitboxes, and Renegade is a good anti-large hitbox fighter in PvE.

What needs to be changed about Sevenshot is to increase its hitbox while tightening the arc a bit. Just QoL that makes it easier to land. Otherwise, it's a fun skill.

The problem with Renegade Shortbow, aside from SB#2 being the worst skill in the game, is the fact the rest of the kit has so little synergy with Sevenshot. Nothing aids you in landing that sweetspot strike.

Here's what I'd do: Make the whole kit revolved around Sevenshot. Do the above buffs for Sevenshot, move it to SB#2, and in place of SB#3 add some sort of pull similar to Temporal Curtain. And do something to improve SB#5 too. Maybe an Immob in addition to its knockdown. Of course, give autoattack a good buff to make up for loss of SB#2.

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

@Scoobaniec.9561 said:

@narcx.3570 said:

@Kain Francois.4328 said:

@narcx.3570 said:

@Kain Francois.4328 said:But in the time it takes to cast Sb2, you can do two autos, which is 6 second bleed.Just buff autoattack and make SB2 do something new...

@Scoobaniec.9561 said:Also doesnt consume energy. I cringe at these advices. Just dont use your skills against moving targets. Just dont use your skills against small hitbox targets. Just dont equip shortbow cuz its useless garbage.

If you don't consume that energy, you won't proc Charged Mists without activating EtD earlier (which costs you a Maniacal Persistence proc) or just straight losing dps to spamming non damage skills like f2/f4. While you're probably talking about PvP, you're replying to what I said, where I was clearly talking about the skill not being useless because it's an important part of a current top dps raid rotation. (where it hits its target anyways)

I get that short bow is bad in PvP, but changing this skill won't magically fix renegade in that game mode, it could only potentially nerf it in the one game mode where it's actually S+ tier.

Don't cripple a weapon set because of Charged Mists. SB#2 is garbage that needs to go.

Only in PvP--but hey, so is 99% of renegade anyways!

Either way saying it's the worst skill in the game is just flat wrong because it's used in high end PvE content.

Look at how many weapons have exact zero competitive builds (Longbow DH comes to mind).

Its used cause there is no other choice LOL. That skill is potato in open pve world vs anything that moves. Pair that with sevenshot being even worse and bingo. You have worst weapon in game. Look, idc about raids that is played by a maybe 1% of playerbase. You can camp mace/axe and be just fine. These skills have to be reworked. An who said they would have to lower dmg or something with a rework? Nobody.People like you are the reason why rev is in current state honestly speaking. Lots of current rev mechanics wouldnt be accepted if it was done in other classes (jfl at sword dmg split).

I find shortbow to be far better in open world than mace/axe. Also camping Mace/axe is a dps loss over just camping shortbow if the enemies hit box is big enough (or if you’re able to hit most of sevenshot consistently). Sevenshot does more damage than the autos if you just hit two of the shots, which is really easy to do. It’s also great as an opener against any mob when combined with Spiritcrush. Eliminates mobs quickly and the AoE damage can be pretty insane when cleaving into a bunch of targets. And ofc shortbow lets you do high condi damage at range which is great for renegade in open world since it doesn’t have a lot of great defenses or get out of jail free cards like Herald.

Also even if you don’t care about its performance in raids, it destroysssss big hitbox open world bosses like Chak Gerent, so it’s raid viability is applicable to many open world meta events as well.

[Thornwolf.9721]

Renegade as a whole is trash. The weapon is the least of it's problems, but yes the whole kit is kind of meh if you're doing anything but PvE and heck even Raids has you using mace+Axe auto's with it on the condi rotation and if you're going healer... I mean you camp ventari most of the time with staff for cc/heals.

[narcx.3570]

@Scoobaniec.9561 said:People like you are the reason why rev is in current state honestly speaking.

And what's so bad about the current state of rev? It has meta/S+ tier builds in all three game modes...

[Street Peddler.2638]

just like everything renegade, works in pve, utterly completely useless in pvp.

what a great and interesting spec just spam all your skills and circle buffs during boss fights and thats all you're capable of.

[otto.5684]

@narcx.3570 said:

@Scoobaniec.9561 said:People like you are the reason why rev is in current state honestly speaking.

And what's so bad about the current state of rev? It has meta/S+ tier builds in all three game modes...

I agree. Rev is solid in PvE. PvP though, renegade is not remotely viable. SB (and it’s skill 2) are not the only culprit of renegade PvP failure though.

However, having a skill that works against primarily stationary targets and large boxes is very bad design. Not only it hinders the weapon in PvP, but even in open world PvE it is not a good weapon. There is not logical reason whatsoever in making all 7 arrows just hit the target instead of this gimmicky reverse shotgun.

And honestly, renegade is the least smooth build out there, due to combination of SB, F skills and utilities. Just cuz it works in group PvE, due to brute force of numbers, does not make it good. Much of renegade needs rework.

[Leap Of Faith.8263]

For the sake of discussion lets say all three shots of Bloodbane’s Path hit the target moving or stationary. What scenario you guys see yourself using this skill game mode wise. Other than slight Dps increase (which I cannot make it happen on test golems).

[Strider.7849]

It's not the worst. Please look up Druid staff skill #2.

[Kain Francois.4328]

@Strider.7849 said:It's not the worst. Please look up Druid staff skill #2.

Druid staff 2 has good healing coefficients...

[Taobella.6597]

no because does not require line of sight to cast. so you can use it well ruining away :).

[Kain Francois.4328]

@Taobella.6597 said:no because does not require line of sight to cast. so you can use it well ruining away :).

Which is what you will be doing often as a Shortbow Renegade in PvP, LMAO

(exception to the Life Stealer build, lol)