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@"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:I wanna point out that Ele doesn't have a "meta build" at the moment. If anything, I've seen more condition-based Sage's Weavers than Mender Weavers lately.

Because condition dmg offers the path of least resistance for ele players to achieve a kill, the class is a glass cannon....minus the cannon

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@"Grimjack.8130" said:You cannot say a skill is bad because you view the build as bad or unviable, thats an arguement thats flawed. Regardless of the strength of the build overall, you should be able to see the value the skills bring to the table. Sadly you cannot, and you would rather try to play me down as some random who doesn't know what I'm talking about.

It seems you don't even see the niche that Fresh Air Weaver can create for itself, it has more sustain than any other "one shot" build in the game, it also never runs out of damage meaning theres no other class worse for you to let free cast than a Fresh Air Weaver. I've played Fresh Air Weaver in 5v5s versus some of the best players in the game. It has some of the best ranged spike, probably only second to Sic' Em Soulbeast on top of everything else I've already mentioned. Regardless, this isn't what this thread is about, but I can go on if you want.

You also completely skipped over my point about Twin Strike, I'd assume because you can't figure out a reason why I would be wrong.

Just show a video of you playing against anything but a potato! Tired of all the white knights! It would be easier to see what you celebrating so much if see you actually using it, go and come with proofs of this amazing damage you're talking about, what are you afraid of?

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@Ivarian.9018 said:

@"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:

@Grimjack.8130 said:Twin Strike is really good, Fracturing Strike is REALLY good, and Stone Tide is really good too.

The problem is that other classes have powercrept away. So while they are good in a core/HoT context, they are lackluster in PoF.

Not too much. No need to overbuff ele. But some small adjustments in ranges, projectile speeds and QoL (casting backwards, some CDs...) would be great.

Don't try to change my words when I say they are good skills. They aren't good in whatever context you're trying to put them in, I'm telling you they are straight up, good skills. You can't tell that because you don't see the same synergy that others do.

Twin Strike is a key in the loop of both Fire and Water Weaver, that pushes your offensive capability to the max even when you're resustaining. Very few Weavers take advantage of where this skill is located and how to use it optimally, even popular Weaver youtubers completely skip over this skill.Fracturing Strike is a two part hard hitting skill that has great synergy with Fresh Air, and its even a great skill in the rare Lightning Rod Scepter builds that people sometimes play. (also vuln.)Stone Tide hits a ton, guaranteeing your Fresh Air proc when used on someone CCed or in the downstate, and stacks great Vulnerability dramatically buffing you and your teams downcleave or removes Aegis so harder hitting skills will land (Shatterstone).

...this whole post is just..cringe worthy

Nice job explaining why it's cringe-worthy. I for the most part agree with Grimjack.

The elementalist class is the only one without any in-built defensive mechanic and any resemblance of minimal sustain comes from raw stats alone, for this reason ele, the class is forced to always rely on bunker amulets to avoid being oneshotted on the spot, it's the same reason why scepter builds are just yolo builds for solo ranked low levels or group ganking in wvw.

Secondly the skills he mentions if used by a full zerk ele do as much dmg as a demolisher ranger with lb AA, the latter will only have 3-4x more sustain and impact in game....from the 1200 ranger comfort.

Maybe you and Grimjack want to reach the AT finals playing this amazing weaver burst build..or at the very least anywhere near plat 2

As a fellow Weaver PVP player, I disagree with that. You will rely less and less on your amulet for sustain the more you are able to optimize your built-in sustain mechanics and anticipate enemy moves. Take weakness and evades for example, they are built-in mechanics that can boost your sustain and let you maximize your damage. Of course, there are teams comp that require to use a bunker amulet sometimes because the enemy team condi or damage potential will be too high for your built-in mechanics alone.

Weakness and evades on ele? Did you take a good look at ele and the skills which "apply" weakness or allow evades?

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Once again Megametlzer you're looking at the skills directly rather than the value they bring overall, thats a mistake, and thats why you're unable to fully understand how the game works.In fact you didn't even understand when I say "hits a ton" I mean't it pulses damage rapidly, rather than the overall damage it puts out.Prep rock barrier like you want to anyways, if you don't find a burst target in 4 seconds or you're kiting like you might have to, water is a fine attunement to go in, it also gives you burst synergy with Comet if you end up not needing Water Earth, you can be ready in Air Water and have 8k damage ready for whatever you need.

Also do people still play Mender Weaver in Unranked/Ranked? I thought I disproved that was (almost) always suboptimal to Sages with the same exact build? (drop wovenstride for invigstrikes k thx) or just play Fire Weaver which is the best build for Weaver right now anyways.

You seem to not understand the Fresh Air playstyle and for that you say things are impossible/impractical that are very practical, its common for people to do that though, so its not an errant mistake. I would recommend you watch someone whos quite experienced at Fresh Air Weaver and you'll probably realize how you're viewing it is wrong.The whole Fracturing Strike and Stone Tide arguments you came up with really drive that point to me.

@Arheundel.6451 since you want to see actual proof. @Megametzler.5729 and you seem that actually showing you would significantly help you, I invite you both to tune in to my stream once or twice :)

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Speaking of s/d Weaver...Fine - > Twin Strike (chill, able to combo edge of first attack animation with flash and hit both of them), Pyro Vortex (burning, AoE, fine damage), Lava Skin (Barrier, moderate constant damage, burning)Semi-fine - > Gale Strike (AoE cc, Vuln stacks, but animation...5 yo kiddo could dodge that, its so obvious and cast time aint making it any better)He he - > Shearing Edge (fine damage, good weapon vs squishes, also chill condi, but its range is very low and it even bugs sometimes, especially with flash and ends up being range 300 or so), Natural Frenzy (good damage, especially vs squishes, but as it goes with Shearing Edge, its range is low and often bugs, especially when casted after using flash). Both of them used to be more annoying, nowadays I think i see that bug less often. What is also annoying is the thing that you need to cast it in 180 degree, why tho? Revenant has almost the same animation with sword 2 and yet he can kite and use it at foes behind him. Ridiculous.

Overall: I wouldnt cry over state of dual attacks. Weaver could get some improvements somewhere else (or I would rather say that other classes like holo could get some nerfs).

/Avatar s/d weaver guy, i dont like condis, tehe/

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@Widmo.3186 said:Speaking of s/d Weaver...Fine - > Twin Strike (chill, able to combo edge of first attack animation with flash and hit both of them), Pyro Vortex (burning, AoE, fine damage), Lava Skin (Barrier, moderate constant damage, burning)Semi-fine - > Gale Strike (AoE cc, Vuln stacks, but animation...5 yo kiddo could dodge that, its so obvious and cast time aint making it any better)He he - > Shearing Edge (fine damage, good weapon vs squishes, also chill condi, but its range is very low and it even bugs sometimes, especially with flash and ends up being range 300 or so), Natural Frenzy (good damage, especially vs squishes, but as it goes with Shearing Edge, its range is low and often bugs, especially when casted after using flash). Both of them used to be more annoying, nowadays I think i see that bug less often. What is also annoying is the thing that you need to cast it in 180 degree, why tho? Revenant has almost the same animation with sword 2 and yet he can kite and use it at foes behind him. Ridiculous.

Overall: I wouldnt cry over state of dual attacks. Weaver could get some improvements somewhere else (or I would rather say that other classes like holo could get some nerfs).

/Avatar s/d weaver guy, i dont like condis, tehe/

This post is abut the state of dual attacks in general. Sword and Dagger dual attacks are the strongest by far atm and don't necessarily need to be messed with. It's Scepter and Staff which are concerning.

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@Widmo.3186 said:Speaking of s/d Weaver...Fine - > Twin Strike (chill, able to combo edge of first attack animation with flash and hit both of them), Pyro Vortex (burning, AoE, fine damage), Lava Skin (Barrier, moderate constant damage, burning)Semi-fine - > Gale Strike (AoE cc, Vuln stacks, but animation...5 yo kiddo could dodge that, its so obvious and cast time aint making it any better)He he - > Shearing Edge (fine damage, good weapon vs squishes, also chill condi, but its range is very low and it even bugs sometimes, especially with flash and ends up being range 300 or so), Natural Frenzy (good damage, especially vs squishes, but as it goes with Shearing Edge, its range is low and often bugs, especially when casted after using flash). Both of them used to be more annoying, nowadays I think i see that bug less often. What is also annoying is the thing that you need to cast it in 180 degree, why tho? Revenant has almost the same animation with sword 2 and yet he can kite and use it at foes behind him. Ridiculous.

Overall: I wouldnt cry over state of dual attacks. Weaver could get some improvements somewhere else (or I would rather say that other classes like holo could get some nerfs).

/Avatar s/d weaver guy, i dont like condis, tehe/

Avatar is a fun amulet. :smile:

What would you like to see on Weaver, if I may ask? I agree, Sword Dual attacks are more or less fine (as @Ovark.2514 mentioned, other weapon's dual attack less so), but I would still like to see some minor improvements. Just as you mentioned, make those kiting skills castable backwards again...

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