Any pistol/pistol builds for roaming?

[Joshewwah.2956]

Is there any? Or is core sword/dagger still meta?

Edit: I've found a build that works for me. See below or scroll down.

I would describe the role like:The playstyle is essentially like hit and run, or like skirmishing. If we are to make an analogy of ancient warfare, it would be like actual skirmishers, light cavalry that would harass enemies from a safe distance (with javelins) and then clean up the weakened soldiers who are routing (with their spears). Zergs in gw2 have frontline and backline roles, similar to in ancient warfare, there would be frontline spearmen and backline archers. The spearmen (firebrands, scrappers, warriors, even necros) can't really fight back against your harass, but the backline sort of can (mainly random pug roaming rangers and thieves). When the fight breaks out, you stay at a safe distance and find downed and weak enemies to finish off, like light cavalry.

@Straegen.2938 said:I have been running PP in WvW for about a month now and enjoying it immensely. It was a junk build I threw in just to play around but its burst is surprising and catches a lot of players off guard. It won't compete in a duel against a skilled adversary in a meta build very well but it can press an advantage into lethal territory in a second.

The crux of the build is Crit Strikes (331), Trickery (222), Dare Devil (222) with Speed Runes and Staff offhand. Staff is just there for reflect counter and building bloodlust. DD. SD, etc can be used. It kites like a fiend thanks to speed runes. 2.5k armor, 18k HP, 50% crit chance and everything else in power. Force/Air sigils on PP and Lust/Accuracry on Staff but I was running some junk ones for a couple weeks at first so the sigils are really just a bonus. Shadow Step, Bandits and SoA utility skills mostly to counter knockdowns.

It won't win any awards for OP-ness but it is fun, relatively durable and decent escape. I haven't tried it in PvP yet but I suspect similar performance.

Your post inspired me a week ago to try out a similar build. I actually copied that same build but with shortbow for mobility, and I've made some changes to suit my playstyle. I don't use critical strikes anymore since most of my enemies like to dodge or evade the unload burst. Without Critical Strikes, I lose about 27% damage, but I opted for Acrobatics for survivability instead. Being easily killed by rangers when I would participate in zergs was annoying, thats why I chose Acrobatics. Acrobatics is 1-3-1, same as core S/d thief. Having acro and Daredevil allows perma swiftness in this build. One dash gives me 17 seconds of swiftness that I can keep reapplying.

My skills are: Withdrawal, Roll for Initiative, Signet of Agility, Shadowstep and the spin elite. Essentially almost like core thief. This maximises running away whenever people try to focus you.

I chose such a defensive and evasive version of what your running because I have high ping and like to play hit and run. I know this build can't 1v1 a lot of people (at least in a fair situation, but if they are off guard of fighting someone else, then I can easily +1 them), but even if I played a build that could 1v1 or 1vX, I don't have the skills nor the time to practise to play it properly. A hit and run build where i can go for easy kills and disengage easily when needed is what I like.

I tried zerging a few times with this build and it works. Some people might be surprised but I know it works. I don't get invited to the zerg parties though unless its a pug. The playstyle I play relies half on the dual pistols and half on the mount. In the current pirate ship meta we have, I simply stand in the face of the enemy zerg, in between our zerg and the enemy zerg. Usually I'm pretty safe, and if I can get close enough, I can harass some people. As soon as the fight breaks out I mount up, find an opening where some people are downed, secure the kills (mount ability 1) for my zerg so they won't rally or revive again. Then depending on where I jumped in combat, I'd either elite skill spin for the evade, and tag a lot of the enemies and deal decent damage, or find a safe spot outside of all the AOEs and red circles and finish off players with my p/p. Also I run bloodlust sigil on my pistol as you can easily rack up stacks from a single battle. Given that its easy to get 25 stacks finishing off weaker players, getting +250 power is easy and some of the loss of damage is compensated.

The playstyle is essentially like hit and run, or like skirmishing (if we are to make an analogy of ancient warfare, it would be like actual skirmishers, light cavalry that would harass enemies from a safe distance and then clean up the weakened soldiers who are routing). Its highly unlikely the enemy zerg will focus you as they'd rather waste their abilities on your allied zerg. To them I'm simply like an annoying bug not worth the effort. There can be enemy rangers part of the enemy pug zerg, but they are usually in the backline of their zerg, away from the blob, so they are too far away to be able to attack me. If they wanted to, they could be part of the blob and try to kill me, but then they risk getting killed if my allied zerg wishes to engage. And you know that most wvw rangers aren't as brave to stay in the frontline, and prefer to stay in the backline, so they arne't a problem. They may pose a problem if they target you when the zerg fight breaks out, but then you have 4 abilities that let you escape, 3 dashing dodges, and 2-3 shortbow 5s. You have initiative, utility skills and weapon skills all to escape; not many classes have that. Essentially with this build, you can fight when you need to, and run away when you need to. So if the zerg fight doesn't go your way, you can easily run away.

Maybe the few zerg fights my allied zerg had would've won without me, but I'm sure that I gave them more room for error by simply finishing off downed enemies for good and downing a couple of enemies here and there that are low on hp. Often I can finish off 3-5 players in a fight with my mount and maybe down 2-3 more with my pistols. I suppose thats better than nothing. I'm on SoS server, and we're currently rank 1 in tier 1, so I've tested that this build can contribute to zerg fights at the highest levels of WvW play. Its worked in giant zerg vs zerg fights of like 40 vs 40 (gotta be careful of dismounting where there are lots of red circles, I've died more times to that than a ranger pew pewing me in a zerg). It's worked in small skirmish engages of about 15 vs 15 and its even held its ground in a small guild part of 15 people against an enemy pug zerg of about 30-40 people. It may not be the build itself; there are other builds out there that can work as part of this kind of skirmishing playstyle. But I think its a really good one for this kind of role, considering that you have lots of escapes as a thief, and can easily finish off weaker players at a safe range.

The build is more strategic in nature, compared to most other builds that soley require reflexes and combat skills. This build is perfect for people who don't have the time to practise nor skill to being good at the game mechanics and being able to handle 1v1 situations against very good players, and that these players would prefer to use their brain to outsmart the enemy.

[babazhook.6805]

P/P as a supplementary can be ok , but the nerfs it has received coupled with all the adds to other professions translates to it being poor as a main set weapon. It range too short to deal with an equal footing against other ranged enemies and there few ways to defend without ports or ready stealth when range gets too low. Throw reflects /blocks and the like into the mix and the overeliance on unload is telling.

[Barzah.8019]

Eh the ussual Trickery/Critical/Acro still does the job well for me since p/p get benefit from evading while spamming 3 all day long. On the other hand, Deadeye w M7 help you maintain ini for longer burst.

It's been 3 year and im still can't find a better way to replace Trickery. Why you make this particular talent so friggin OP @net????

[Sleepwalker.1398]

I miss this on pistols.

**Editcopy paste whole link or it will take to Ranger skillhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ricochet_(trait)/history

[Faaris.8013]

@Barzah.8019 said:It's been 3 year and im still can't find a better way to replace Trickery. Why you make this particular talent so friggin OP @net????

I see it from a different angle: why did Anet provide so little base Initiative that thieves are required to take Trickery in competitive play?

I use P/P as an opener in most cases, to get Might, then switch to staff for close combat. If the enemy is a necro, I don't switch but stay ranged, if it's a mesmer, I probably start with staff to cleave everything that pops up. It depends, if the enemy is slow, I can get him down with Unload. Today it even worked with a DH who obviously was so surprised after he attacked me that he was not quick enough to block or dodge. If the enemy knows his business, you can easily kill yourself with pistols though, bullets come right back at you with proper reflects. I killed myself more than once because I was too slow to dodge my own attack.

Oh, and pistols are good for dismounting. I don't like the sneaky ganking kind of play, so staff + P/P it is.

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

I build P/P as hybrid leaning more towards condition damage than power. So I would take DA/CS/DE or DA/TR/DD, depends on what I want to do.

The way I play my P/P is to build might with Unload and apply poison through venom and immob (Panic Strike), then stack bleed (+torment with DE) with sneak attack.

I would not claim that my builds are meta and I am aware of its weakness (that's why I carry an off-set weapons), however, it is a fun build. At least for me.

DA/CS/DEDA/TR/DD (swipe broke this build)

[Straegen.2938]

I have been running PP in WvW for about a month now and enjoying it immensely. It was a junk build I threw in just to play around but its burst is surprising and catches a lot of players off guard. It won't compete in a duel against a skilled adversary in a meta build very well but it can press an advantage into lethal territory in a second.

The crux of the build is Crit Strikes (331), Trickery (222), Dare Devil (222) with Speed Runes and Staff offhand. Staff is just there for reflect counter and building bloodlust. DD. SD, etc can be used. It kites like a fiend thanks to speed runes. 2.5k armor, 18k HP, 50% crit chance and everything else in power. Force/Air sigils on PP and Lust/Accuracry on Staff but I was running some junk ones for a couple weeks at first so the sigils are really just a bonus. Shadow Step, Bandits and SoA utility skills mostly to counter knockdowns.

It won't win any awards for OP-ness but it is fun, relatively durable and decent escape. I haven't tried it in PvP yet but I suspect similar performance.

[godofcows.2451]

I've been using p/p as an alt on my s/d or staff for months now. ...nearly a year i think. I mainly use it for skill number 2, nothing fancy. It's immob spam on demand. Well, ofc you're not going to spam it, if you do, you'll run out of ini quite fast. Mix some aa's with it or something. Is it cheese? Yeah. Is it annoying? Yeah. Is it broken? To those that don't have alot of counter to immob. Why am i playing such cheese? Gw2 modern meta is cheese. I might as well cheese them back.

[Barzah.8019]

The good thing about P/P is that it does not completely relieant on stealth mechanic which make the setup compatible with many talent build. On the other hand, P/P require unloads of initiave in order to be viable. There are many things that can provide steady ammount of ini but TRICKERY must be your main at all cost.

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

@"Barzah.8019" said:The good thing about P/P is that it does not completely relieant on stealth mechanic which make the setup compatible with many talent build. On the other hand, P/P require unloads of initiave in order to be viable. There are many things that can provide steady ammount of ini but TRICKERY must be your main at all cost.

Not true. P/P is not "viable" with whatever build you can come up with. It's a weapon set for fun build, not for competitive. You only think about viability if you are competing and if you are competing, why are you using P/P?

[Joshewwah.2956]

@Straegen.2938 said:I have been running PP in WvW for about a month now and enjoying it immensely. It was a junk build I threw in just to play around but its burst is surprising and catches a lot of players off guard. It won't compete in a duel against a skilled adversary in a meta build very well but it can press an advantage into lethal territory in a second.

The crux of the build is Crit Strikes (331), Trickery (222), Dare Devil (222) with Speed Runes and Staff offhand. Staff is just there for reflect counter and building bloodlust. DD. SD, etc can be used. It kites like a fiend thanks to speed runes. 2.5k armor, 18k HP, 50% crit chance and everything else in power. Force/Air sigils on PP and Lust/Accuracry on Staff but I was running some junk ones for a couple weeks at first so the sigils are really just a bonus. Shadow Step, Bandits and SoA utility skills mostly to counter knockdowns.

It won't win any awards for OP-ness but it is fun, relatively durable and decent escape. I haven't tried it in PvP yet but I suspect similar performance.

Your post inspired me a week ago to try out a similar build. I actually copied that same build but with shortbow for mobility, and I've made some changes to suit my playstyle. I don't use critical strikes anymore since most of my enemies like to dodge or evade the unload burst. Without Critical Strikes, I lose about 27% damage, but I opted for Acrobatics for survivability instead. Being easily killed by rangers when I would participate in zergs was annoying, thats why I chose Acrobatics. Acrobatics is 1-3-1, same as core S/d thief. Having acro and Daredevil allows perma swiftness in this build. One dash gives me 17 seconds of swiftness that I can keep reapplying.

My skills are: Withdrawal, Roll for Initiative, Signet of Agility, Shadowstep and the spin elite. Essentially almost like core thief. This maximises running away whenever people try to focus you.

I chose such a defensive and evasive version of what your running because I have high ping and like to play hit and run. I know this build can't 1v1 a lot of people (at least in a fair situation, but if they are off guard of fighting someone else, then I can easily +1 them), but even if I played a build that could 1v1 or 1vX, I don't have the skills nor the time to practise to play it properly. A hit and run build where i can go for easy kills and disengage easily when needed is what I like.

I tried zerging a few times with this build and it works. Some people might be surprised but I know it works. I don't get invited to the zerg parties though unless its a pug. The playstyle I play relies half on the dual pistols and half on the mount. In the current pirate ship meta we have, I simply stand in the face of the enemy zerg, in between our zerg and the enemy zerg. Usually I'm pretty safe, and if I can get close enough, I can harass some people. As soon as the fight breaks out I mount up, find an opening where some people are downed, secure the kills (mount ability 1) for my zerg so they won't rally or revive again. Then depending on where I jumped in combat, I'd either elite skill spin for the evade, and tag a lot of the enemies and deal decent damage, or find a safe spot outside of all the AOEs and red circles and finish off players with my p/p. Also I run bloodlust sigil on my pistol as you can easily rack up stacks from a single battle. Given that its easy to get 25 stacks finishing off weaker players, getting +250 power is easy and some of the loss of damage is compensated.

The playstyle is essentially like hit and run, or like skirmishing (if we are to make an analogy of ancient warfare, it would be like actual skirmishers, light cavalry that would harass enemies from a safe distance and then clean up the weakened soldiers who are routing). The zerg would be composed of frontline soldiers and backline archers). Its highly unlikely the enemy zerg will focus you as they'd rather waste their abilities on your allied zerg. To them I'm simply like an annoying bug not worth the effort. There can be enemy rangers part of the enemy pug zerg, but they are usually in the backline of their zerg, away from the blob, so they are too far away to be able to attack me. If they wanted to, they could be part of the blob and try to kill me, but then they risk getting killed if my allied zerg wishes to engage. And you know that most wvw rangers aren't as brave to stay in the frontline, and prefer to stay in the backline, so they arne't a problem. They may pose a problem if they target you when the zerg fight breaks out, but then you have 4 abilities that let you escape, 3 dashing dodges, and 2-3 shortbow 5s. You have initiative, utility skills and weapon skills all to escape; not many classes have that. Essentially with this build, you can fight when you need to, and run away when you need to. So if the zerg fight doesn't go your way, you can easily run away.

Maybe the few zerg fights my allied zerg had would've won without me, but I'm sure that I gave them more room for error by simply finishing off downed enemies for good and downing a couple of enemies here and there that are low on hp. Often I can finish off 3-5 players in a fight with my mount and maybe down 2-3 more with my pistols. I suppose thats better than nothing. I'm on SoS server, and we're currently rank 1 in tier 1, so I've tested that this build can contribute to zerg fights at the highest levels of WvW play. Its worked in giant zerg vs zerg fights of like 40 vs 40 (gotta be careful of dismounting where there are lots of red circles, I've died more times to that than a ranger pew pewing me in a zerg). It's worked in small skirmish engages of about 15 vs 15 and its even held its ground in a small guild part of 15 people against an enemy pug zerg of about 30-40 people. It may not be the build itself; there are other builds out there that can work as part of this kind of skirmishing playstyle. But I think its a really good one for this kind of role, considering that you have lots of escapes as a thief, and can easily finish off weaker players at a safe range.

The build is more strategic in nature, compared to most other builds that soley require reflexes and combat skills. This build is perfect for people who don't have the time to practise nor skill to being good at the game mechanics and being able to handle 1v1 situations against very good players, and that these players would prefer to use their brain to outsmart the enemy.

[Joshewwah.2956]

Also given a condi build, is there a way to make it work along with acrobatics? I hate rangers being able to kill me from so far away

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

@Joshewwah.2956 said:The playstyle is essentially like hit and run, or like skirmishing

If that's your playstyle, I don't think P/P is the right weapon set for you. You could skirmish better with a Rifle IMO.

[Barzah.8019]

@"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:Not true. P/P is not "viable" with whatever build you can come up with. It's a weapon set for fun build, not for competitive. You only think about viability if you are competing and if you are competing, why are you using P/P?

lul there is a "competing" session on GW2? I tought those thing were abandoned years ago :P joke aside, current P/P spec ain't that strong anymore due to the absence of both ricochet and initiative gain from healing skill trait. Nowaday p/p relied heavily on elite spec in order to be able to sustain 3333 properly and seeing each of those bullet didn't bounce between target just broke my heart man :(

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

@Barzah.8019 said:

@"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:Not true. P/P is not "viable" with whatever build you can come up with. It's a weapon set for fun build, not for competitive. You only think about viability if you are competing and if you are competing, why are you using P/P?

lul there is a "competing" session on GW2? I tought those thing were abandoned years ago :P joke aside, current P/P spec ain't that strong anymore due to the absence of both ricochet and initiative gain from healing skill trait. Nowaday p/p relied heavily on elite spec in order to be able to sustain 3333 properly and seeing each of those bullet didn't bounce between target just broke my heart man :(

That's why it's a build not for viability, but for fun. It became a very subjective weapon set.

Unfortunately, even with the E-spec, spamming #3 is still not sustainable. That's why I made my build as hybrid which is more tactical and doesn't rely on Unload.

[Straegen.2938]

@Joshewwah.2956 said:Also given a condi build, is there a way to make it work along with acrobatics? I hate rangers being able to kill me from so far away

P/P condi is a strong build once a player embraces the interrupt and learns the timing of other builds. It takes time but a lot of folks that run into me in WvW HATE that build. The easier version of it is all Dire with Acro 1-3-3, Trick 1-1-3, DD 2-3-1 with PP and SB weapons. I put Corruption/Energy on the SB and Draining/Absorption on PP. Antitoxin runes. Withdrawl, Shadow Step, Spider Venom, SoA and spinny.

SB choking primed with Venom then dodges is great damage. Interrupts wreck an opponent with draining stacks before they know what hit them. Use the steal and a dodge to strip boons, get a confusion landed with solid cover condi from the dodge. It is even half decent in a zerg because the SB choking gas goes right through blocks and applies the venom.

Swipe jacked up the build a little but not having to watch for blocks is kinda nice. The best part is practically nobody runs the build so pretty much nobody sees it coming or has had any time to prepare for it. The downside is that most of its damage requires an enemy to attack... killing players on mounts or running away is impossible.

[Joshewwah.2956]

@Straegen.2938 said:

@Joshewwah.2956 said:Also given a condi build, is there a way to make it work along with acrobatics? I hate rangers being able to kill me from so far away

P/P condi is a strong build once a player embraces the interrupt and learns the timing of other builds. It takes time but a lot of folks that run into me in WvW HATE that build. The easier version of it is all Dire with Acro 1-3-3, Trick 1-1-3, DD 2-3-1 with PP and SB weapons. I put Corruption/Energy on the SB and Draining/Absorption on PP. Antitoxin runes. Withdrawl, Shadow Step, Spider Venom, SoA and spinny.

SB choking primed with Venom then dodges is great damage. Interrupts wreck an opponent with draining stacks before they know what hit them. Use the steal and a dodge to strip boons, get a confusion landed with solid cover condi from the dodge. It is even half decent in a zerg because the SB choking gas goes right through blocks and applies the venom.

Swipe jacked up the build a little but not having to watch for blocks is kinda nice. The best part is practically nobody runs the build so pretty much nobody sees it coming or has had any time to prepare for it. The downside is that most of its damage requires an enemy to attack... killing players on mounts or running away is impossible.

When do you use p/p, it seems as though the build is mainly a shortbow build

[Straegen.2938]

@Joshewwah.2956 said:When do you use p/p, it seems as though the build is mainly a shortbow build

P/P is for when fighting in close quarters against a single foe. The interrupts are brutal. The build requires a lot of hands on learning of other class rotations but after a while learning when to drop an interrupt, when to dodge a skill, etc becomes second nature since most builds are fixed rotation. Interrupt P/P obliterates Holosmith, Soul Beast, other thieves, etc. Where it hits a rough patch is often against Warriors and blow up Guardians due to their high stab up time and invulns. It is worthless against scrappers in the current meta.

Mostly it manhandles players that get thrown out of their timing which is to say most players. They get so used to hitting buttons in a certain order and P/P just knocks them right out. Also the build sneaks up the damage. Many players are dead before they realize what they just tangled with particularly when they reach for that heal only to find it is interrupted and they get more damage for their trouble.

Before the draining ICD nerf, the build was monsterous. So much so I didn't want to put it out there because I didn't want to fight it. Post ICD, the drains don't hit as hard but the build is still solid. To me the play style of interrupt P/P is the pinnacle of thief control. No stealth for backup and it wins by directly countering builds instead of some fixed rotational trick. Virtually every build variant requires a different approach with the same set of tools.

Pro-trick, Lotus Training tells you where an invis player is going as it ignores invis when launching its projectiles.

[Ultramex.1506]

full berserker p/p with critical/trick/dd in wvw just to kill time, died one because of mesmer reflect, when i fought another mesmer, used scorpion wire/fist flurry combo. I think the second mesmer was the first one i died to, he was probably waiting for me to unload again since he just running without doing anything.

[Yasai.3549]

Critical Trick DD.

Yur gonna be playing mainly like a Pistol Whipper and point blanking fools then retreating.

Yur best friend is gonna be Bounding Leap and Pistol 5 for some clutch invis.

Combo would be Basilisk Venom > Bounding-Swipe some fool who doesn't have auto invuls > Unload on them

[Tinnel.4369]

@Straegen.2938 said:

@Joshewwah.2956 said:When do you use p/p, it seems as though the build is mainly a shortbow build

P/P is for when fighting in close quarters against a single foe. The interrupts are brutal. The build requires a lot of hands on learning of other class rotations but after a while learning when to drop an interrupt, when to dodge a skill, etc becomes second nature since most builds are fixed rotation. Interrupt P/P obliterates Holosmith, Soul Beast, other thieves, etc. Where it hits a rough patch is often against Warriors and blow up Guardians due to their high stab up time and invulns. It is worthless against scrappers in the current meta.

Mostly it manhandles players that get thrown out of their timing which is to say most players. They get so used to hitting buttons in a certain order and P/P just knocks them right out. Also the build sneaks up the damage. Many players are dead before they realize what they just tangled with particularly when they reach for that heal only to find it is interrupted and they get more damage for their trouble.

Before the draining ICD nerf, the build was monsterous. So much so I didn't want to put it out there because I didn't want to fight it. Post ICD, the drains don't hit as hard but the build is still solid. To me the play style of interrupt P/P is the pinnacle of thief control. No stealth for backup and it wins by directly countering builds instead of some fixed rotational trick. Virtually every build variant requires a different approach with the same set of tools.

Pro-trick, Lotus Training tells you where an invis player is going as it ignores invis when launching its projectiles.

This!

P/P always gets hate and disdain because people assume it's all about the Unload spam (granted many play it that way), but the set has so much control. I like it with tricks trait and scorpion wire. Yanking rangers off the wall into a daze and double unload is comedy.

[DemonSeed.3528]

I still have memories of vavume running around on his p/p. Sad that they added that weird initiative thing on unload, made it poopy for me.