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nerf rev before everyone quits


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@"Dave.6819" said:Sometimes i think us players are at fault why this game became what it is now. And Anet... should've never listened to us. But they did. And now we have what we have now. No balance. No decent PvP community. No build diversity. Classes/builds that are chopped down and crippled every now and then by balance devs. And like 70% of PvPers are gone... Yea.. keep on going with your "nerf that nerf that one too" threads you "experts".

This is indeed true.

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@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@"Miyu.8137" said:All these topics about nerfing "InsertRandomClass" won't help anything. Can you not be more specific? What exactly do you find OP? What skill? What trait? What utility? When we know, we can actually discuss the problematic parts and evantually propose solution.

At first, you'd think it's the damage output. But it isn't actually the damage that's the problem, it's the chase potential. You seriously cannot escape a Herald that wants you dead. Between Unrelenting Assault and Phase Traversal, it's too much chase power. If it engages you when you are already low on resources, there is no way to counter play the mixture of its chase potential paired with its very consistent high damage output. Unlike a Soulbeast, who has his kill burst in short intervals that go on significant CDs, the Herald actually has high "Damage Per Second", even with random spam attacks, that ultimately cannot be avoided.

Preferably Arenanet needs to configure something so that heralds are easier to disengage. If they don't want to do that, they should lower the damage output.

I think this is reasonable. An energy cost bump to phase traversal might be a good place to start, and if that isn't enough have unrelenting check its range after every hit so that you cant magnet to people that blink/port far away.

I say that tentatively though. Getting harassed at range by bomb-and-disengage condi builds or projectiles ain't a good feel, and they dont have as much block potential as guards. Gonna need to buff their active defenses if you want them to not stick to you the moment they see you.

So either nerf damage or nerf chase/buff defense. And depending on when they land from there, condi cleanse or a significant buff to resistance on mallyx to make people consider corruption line.

The whole idea of revenant is to be able to chase their enemy. That's their role just like thief can chase you forever. Also why do you expect to be able to run away if you're out of cooldowns? You shouldn't be able to survive if you manage your CD's bad and are in a vulnerable spot. That's your fault.Turning down mobility and increasing defense will literally make revenant a warrior 2.0.Phase Traversal already is 35 energy, it doesn't need any higher energy requirements at all because you can already barely cast any other skill after using Phase Traversal.

People need to understand that it's actually more worth to duel the Revenant than to try and run away. Revenants aren't particulary good in 1v1's unless the user is very skilled. If that's the case you're just getting outplayed so you have to deal with that.

The only overtuned skill on Revenant is sword 5. A 20% damage nerf is all that it needs.

PS: Kiting on non port spots basically nullifies a Revenant so begin with doing that.

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@Snellibee.2761 said:The whole idea of revenant is to be able to chase their enemy. That's their role just like thief can chase you forever. Also why do you expect to be able to run away if you're out of cooldowns? You shouldn't be able to survive if you manage your CD's bad and are in a vulnerable spot. That's your fault.

Nobody said they were out of cooldowns. Trevor said that. I am not of that opinion. You can still be magneted to even if you have disengage cooldowns via phase traversal and unrelenting.Also, is it really their role? I thought they were group support. Thats what the majority of their kit seems to be built around.

Not that I feel they need to be shoehorned into that, but chase potential is only present in one of their traits and weapon types. All of the other traitlines focus on pushing benefits to allies.

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@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@"Snellibee.2761" said:The whole idea of revenant is to be able to chase their enemy. That's their role just like thief can chase you forever. Also why do you expect to be able to run away if you're out of cooldowns? You shouldn't be able to survive if you manage your CD's bad and are in a vulnerable spot. That's your fault.

Nobody said they were out of cooldowns.Also, is it really their role? I thought they were group support. Thats what the majority of their kit seems to be built around.

Not that I feel they need to be shoehorned into that, but chase potential is only present in one of their traits and weapon types. All of the other traitlines focus on pushing benefits to allies.

"If it engages you when you are already low on resources, there is no way to counter play" --> "I'm low on CD's but it's still unfair that I can't win when I'm targeted by Revenant"

The meta rev build's role is roaming (and teamfighting). They're only really good in teamfights because Firebrands existing to cleanse their conditions and keep them alive whilst they go ham. Revenant has to be one of the weakest classes vs condition damage and won't survive vs any condi build out there. Considering Scourge is a high used teamfight class focused around condi's, without Firebrand a Revenant would not be able to stay in the teamfight for longer than a couple of seconds.

Their kit is fit amazing for roaming and +1, they have the ability to do high damage and gank someone unexpected. The thing they lack is sustain and disengagement, which is why they'll only fight with their team and never alone. Just how Revenant is able to chase someone forever if they want to, anyone can chase a Revenant forever if they want to.

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@Snellibee.2761 said:

@Snellibee.2761 said:The whole idea of revenant is to be able to chase their enemy. That's their role just like thief can chase you forever. Also why do you expect to be able to run away if you're out of cooldowns? You shouldn't be able to survive if you manage your CD's bad and are in a vulnerable spot. That's your fault.

Nobody said they were out of cooldowns.Also, is it really their role? I thought they were group support. Thats what the majority of their kit seems to be built around.

Not that I feel they need to be shoehorned into that, but chase potential is only present in one of their traits and weapon types. All of the other traitlines focus on pushing benefits to allies.

"If it engages you when you are already low on resources, there is no way to counter play" --> "I'm low on CD's but it's still unfair that I can't win when I'm targeted by Revenant"

The meta rev build's role is roaming (and teamfighting). They're only really good in teamfights because Firebrands existing to cleanse their conditions and keep them alive whilst they go ham. Revenant has to be one of the weakest classes vs condition damage and won't survive vs any condi build out there. Considering Scourge is a high used teamfight class focused around condi's, without Firebrand a Revenant would not be able to stay in the teamfight for longer than a couple of seconds.

Their kit is fit amazing for roaming and +1, they have the ability to do high damage and gank someone unexpected. The thing they lack is sustain and disengagement, which is why they'll only fight with their team and never alone. Just how Revenant is able to chase someone forever if they want to, anyone can chase a Revenant forever if they want to.

VS. Any condi build?... Yeah, that's not true. As a sage ele, I know Revs can handle the condi burst, block, and retaliate double fold. And they can't be chased... Half of their rotation is cc and disengage, just to pop back in and burst. Their sustain is their worst offender given the tremendous damage they can dish out.

Scourge is a pain in the kitten and I'm sure Revs have a difficult time fighting them, but that's most classes, not just a Rev problem. I'm sure mastering Harold game play takes skill, but a good Rev is more than just meta.

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@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@"Dave.6819" said:Sometimes i think us players are at fault why this game became what it is now. And Anet... should've never listened to us. But they did. And now we have what we have now. No balance. No decent PvP community. No build diversity. Classes/builds that are chopped down and crippled every now and then by balance devs. And like 70% of PvPers are gone... Yea.. keep on going with your "nerf that nerf that one too" threads you "experts".

This is indeed true.

Like I said before

Ever since Path of Fire I've felt that conquest's biggest weakness isn't the mechanics or balance or game mode. It's always been the community holding it back. The game poorly educating players on what to do in the game mode, top tier players (Who religiously play this game, I might add) telling curious potential buyers the game isn't worth playing on their streams several times a day. It's not the balance. It's not the game mode. It's not the systems in place for how to play PvP like Ranked and Automated Tournaments. It's us. It's always been us. We're the problem.

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@Snellibee.2761 said:

@Snellibee.2761 said:The whole idea of revenant is to be able to chase their enemy. That's their role just like thief can chase you forever. Also why do you expect to be able to run away if you're out of cooldowns? You shouldn't be able to survive if you manage your CD's bad and are in a vulnerable spot. That's your fault.

Nobody said they were out of cooldowns.Also, is it really their role? I thought they were group support. Thats what the majority of their kit seems to be built around.

Not that I feel they need to be shoehorned into that, but chase potential is only present in one of their traits and weapon types. All of the other traitlines focus on pushing benefits to allies.

"If it engages you when you are already low on resources, there is no way to counter play" --> "I'm low on CD's but it's still unfair that I can't win when I'm targeted by Revenant"

Right right, I saw and updated. Missed that.

The way it is now, I'm not leaning either way nerf/buff wise. As was brought up multiple times before they are violently allergic to conditions. and since their rotation forces them to mag to you you can certainly load them with those if you run a condi build.

Yes they have high damage, yes they have high evade. But they also have a glaring, obvious weakness, and really that's all I need from classes here. Something that can easily punch it down if its built properly.

If you HAVE to nerf it maybe offset its phase traversal a bit more but I dont think its in a position to warrant that right now. I run a Sage Mally/Glint Rev with mainhand mace and usually any rev that puts itself on me kills itself with torment.

.... Wait-

Wasn't that the mesmer counterplay too?

NERF ITNERF IT NOW

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@Stallic.2397 said:

@Snellibee.2761 said:The whole idea of revenant is to be able to chase their enemy. That's their role just like thief can chase you forever. Also why do you expect to be able to run away if you're out of cooldowns? You shouldn't be able to survive if you manage your CD's bad and are in a vulnerable spot. That's your fault.

Nobody said they were out of cooldowns.Also, is it really their role? I thought they were group support. Thats what the majority of their kit seems to be built around.

Not that I feel they need to be shoehorned into that, but chase potential is only present in one of their traits and weapon types. All of the other traitlines focus on pushing benefits to allies.

"If it engages you when you are already low on resources, there is no way to counter play" --> "I'm low on CD's but it's still unfair that I can't win when I'm targeted by Revenant"

The meta rev build's role is roaming (and teamfighting). They're only really good in teamfights because Firebrands existing to cleanse their conditions and keep them alive whilst they go ham. Revenant has to be one of the weakest classes vs condition damage and won't survive vs any condi build out there. Considering Scourge is a high used teamfight class focused around condi's, without Firebrand a Revenant would not be able to stay in the teamfight for longer than a couple of seconds.

Their kit is fit amazing for roaming and +1, they have the ability to do high damage and gank someone unexpected. The thing they lack is sustain and disengagement, which is why they'll only fight with their team and never alone. Just how Revenant is able to chase someone forever if they want to, anyone can chase a Revenant forever if they want to.

VS. Any condi build?... Yeah, that's not true. As a sage ele, I know Revs can handle the condi burst, block, and retaliate double fold. And they can't be chased... Half of their rotation is cc and disengage, just to pop back in and burst. Their sustain is their worst offender given the tremendous damage they can dish out.

Scourge is a pain in the kitten and I'm sure Revs have a difficult time fighting them, but that's most classes, not just a Rev problem. I'm sure mastering Harold game play takes skill, but a good Rev is more than just meta.

An actual good ele playing the fire weaver build can easily win from a Rev. Looking at how you explained your experience, it looks like you're a "node is life" kind of player and let the Revenant disengage without trying to chase him. Also, like I said before, jumping on a no port spot where there are plenty of on any map, will make it so the Revenant is not able to jump you at all.

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@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@Snellibee.2761 said:The whole idea of revenant is to be able to chase their enemy. That's their role just like thief can chase you forever. Also why do you expect to be able to run away if you're out of cooldowns? You shouldn't be able to survive if you manage your CD's bad and are in a vulnerable spot. That's your fault.

Nobody said they were out of cooldowns.Also, is it really their role? I thought they were group support. Thats what the majority of their kit seems to be built around.

Not that I feel they need to be shoehorned into that, but chase potential is only present in one of their traits and weapon types. All of the other traitlines focus on pushing benefits to allies.

"If it engages you when you are already low on resources, there is no way to counter play" --> "I'm low on CD's but it's still unfair that I can't win when I'm targeted by Revenant"

Right right, I saw and updated. Missed that.

The way it is now, I'm not leaning either way nerf/buff wise. As was brought up multiple times before they are
violently allergic to conditions.
and since their rotation forces them to mag to you you can certainly load them with those if you run a condi build.

Yes they have high damage, yes they have high evade. But they also have a glaring, obvious weakness, and really that's all I need from classes here. Something that can easily punch it down if its built properly.

If you HAVE to nerf it maybe offset its phase traversal a bit more but I dont think its in a position to warrant that right now. I run a Sage Mally/Glint Rev with mainhand mace and usually any rev that puts itself on me kills itself with torment.

.... Wait-

Wasn't that the mesmer counterplay too?

NERF ITNERF IT NOW

Like I said, Revenant has its role and it does its role good. The only thing that is not supposed to be the way it is, is the high damage on sword 5 (Deathstrike). Nerf the damage of sword 5 and a lot of complaints will move away because people will not randomly get hit be 6-8k anymore.

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@mortrialus.3062 said:

@"Dave.6819" said:Sometimes i think us players are at fault why this game became what it is now. And Anet... should've never listened to us. But they did. And now we have what we have now. No balance. No decent PvP community. No build diversity. Classes/builds that are chopped down and crippled every now and then by balance devs. And like 70% of PvPers are gone... Yea.. keep on going with your "nerf that nerf that one too" threads you "experts".

This is indeed true.

Like I said before

Ever since Path of Fire I've felt that conquest's biggest weakness isn't the mechanics or balance or game mode. It's always been the community holding it back. The game poorly educating players on what to do in the game mode, top tier players (Who religiously play this game, I might add) telling curious potential buyers the game isn't worth playing on their streams several times a day. It's not the balance. It's not the game mode. It's not the systems in place for how to play PvP like Ranked and Automated Tournaments. It's us. It's always been us. We're the problem.

Its the game mode. The game mode was designed for tournaments. Tournaments that consisted of five players who can communicate in real time with voice. The game mode isn't designed for randoms.

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@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:Revs arguably has the same or more blocks than guardian. (Core) while having a plethora of evades to work with.

Uh?

It has a ton of evades yes, but it only has two blocks IIRC. And both of those blocks are active.

Guardians can block 4 / 5 single attacks every 35 seconds, give or take. Revenant can block unlimited attacks during a set time (3 seconds?).Something like a mesmer clone, iWarlock, precision strike with IO can chunk through all 5 instances of (x3 from focus 5 and X2 aegis from f3.)

Core guard actually has a very low amount of blocks compared to most other specs.

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The problem isnt that revs have ridiculous damage, many builds like spb or holo have similar ttk if they land their burst on you. The problem with rev is that their entire skill loadout is overstacked with very strong abilities.

They have some of the best mobility and chasing/focusing potential with:phase traversal, 5s cooldown 1200 rangedeathstrike, 15s cooldown 600 rangesuperspeed, near permanent in assassin, 45s cooldown in glint

They have many very strong, short cooldown damage skills usable at mid-range:sword 2, 3, 4 have 450 range.elemental blast has 600 range, burst of strength 300surge of the mists - deals less damage from 0 up to 600 range (also a cc)

They have multiple very strong defensive skills:3 evades, 1 being a cc, 1 a stun break&evade, one does damage and follows targets (through teleports even).3s instant cast (yes you have to activate the facet first) damage invuln that can heal them to full on a 30s cooldown, all the while they can continue to pressure and do damage.2s channeled block/blind on a 15s cooldown.4 stun breaks, 2 can be used every 10 seconds. One is an evade as well, one is also a blind, reveal, and applies 10 vuln stacks.

And on top of all that, they have a second heal, aoe unblockable boon rip, self perma fury, high might stacks, swiftness, quickness for their tp burst, and can output high vulnerability stacks during their burst.

No class should have such an amazing skill kit.

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@Snellibee.2761 said:

@"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:Honestly just add a cast time to ALL facets, passive skills and active skills including heal

All facets have cast time except facet of darkness which is the stunbreak so it's normal that it doesn't have a cast time

Except Facet of Darkness obviously. For all other facets add cast time. The passive skills for all facets except heal and elite do not have cast times. You can pop facets all at once for significant DPS increase in an instant. It's too easy for Herald to upkeep.

The heal active should have a cast time as well.

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@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@"Snellibee.2761" said:The whole idea of revenant is to be able to chase their enemy. That's their role just like thief can chase you forever. Also why do you expect to be able to run away if you're out of cooldowns? You shouldn't be able to survive if you manage your CD's bad and are in a vulnerable spot. That's your fault.

Nobody said they were out of cooldowns.

Trevor said that. I am not of that opinion. You can still be magneted to even if you have disengage cooldowns via phase traversal and unrelenting.Also, is it really their role? I thought they were group support. Thats what the majority of their kit seems to be built around.

Not that I feel they need to be shoehorned into that, but chase potential is only present in one of their traits and weapon types. All of the other traitlines focus on pushing benefits to allies.

There is a difference between being able to chase something like a Thief does and literally riding someone's ass like you're glued to it, in the way Herald does. When a Thief chases you, it deals some damage yes, but there are risks involved for the Thief while doing this. We all know that things can go south for a Thief pretty quickly if he takes a couple of bad hits. The Thief actually has to play well, to chase and secure kills. The Thief also has to actually use WASD to stay on someone, which offers counter play for someone who is peeling, to also use WASD to help juke the Thief. A Herald on the other hand, due to the virtue of its enormous damage per second, rapid teleport attacks which are mostly evades, and healing when getting hit, delivers way too much aggression for chasing and forces players into an almost guaranteed "bullied into death" situation.

What are the best words to use to explain this.. probably a simple example:

  • You get targeted in a mid fight and use your heal skill, you're still only at 70% health after using the heal skill.
  • A good Herald sees you've used your heal skill and it is fresh on CD and that you're already at 70% health.
  • The Herald can reliably judge how long it will take to kill you with pressure because his chasing allows him to stay glued to you, even when you're trying to peel & disengage. In other words, he isn't going in with a hit or miss burst gamble in the way that a Soulbeast does. No, the Herald actually has high damage per second, so he knows if he stays glued to you, you're going to get hit, you're going to keep getting hit, and it's going to deal a lot of damage regardless of which attacks are landing.
  • The Herald knows that if he pressures in at you right now, when your heal is fresh on CD and you're at 70% health, that due to his evades on attacking and healing when getting hit, that if he just lays down hard unavoidable damage per second and stays glued to you, it won't matter what you do to try and counter play him. Whether you choose to attack him or attempt to defend or a bit of both, it won't be enough to counter his 10s pressure interval of unavoidable damage per second that is glued to you, his healing when getting hit, and his ability to mostly negate all of your counter burst while he evades at you while attacking you.

^ Due to the extreme damage per second on Herald, and its ability to stay glued to you so that you cannot avoid him, his method to bully you and force you into a "You tank me while I tank you situation" is too strong. There is no other class/build that can do this. Other classes/builds can be juked or played around, while waiting for CDs to refresh so you can eventually engage it properly or recover in some way. Seriously, even a Thief can be disengaged or juked long enough to recover from its assault, but not Herald. Nothing in the game can realistically escape a Herald unless the Herald fumbles hard or there is player assistance to help with the peel or it has an inordinate amount of stealth, and in that case Herald has reveal.

This effect I've mentioned is what the good Heralds are doing, which is why it feels oppressive. They don't show up to a side node to 1v1 something at full resources, no. They hover around 2v2s and team fights, and they target that guy who is a bit low on resources, and they know that the unavoidable pressure will put him down in 10s or less, so long as the Herald is going in with full resources and/or has team support on him.

Again, it is my opinion that this is too oppressive in small skirmish such as conquest. It either needs less frequent targeted teleportations, or a shave to its damage output, one of the two. The nature of its "Overpoweredness" isn't really so much statistical as much as it technically, in terms of what it is doing to disturb the classic job roles within conquest. The Herald's +ing power is waaaaay overloaded right now. It's every bit as toxic & exploitive as having one class that is too strong of bunker such as Druid in HoT. Back then a Druid could 1v3 and that shit was just not healthy for the game. Or a team fighter that was just too strong, such as Scourge on the initial release of PoF. Walking onto a node with the first patching of Scourge, was like walking into a nuclear reactor while it was experiencing a meltdown. It was just overloaded with everything offensive, including a massive amount of boons into condis conversion. Until it was patched, there was no reason to use anything for team fight other than Scourge. Again, that's just not healthy for the game. Herald is headed in a similar direction. It's ability to + and guarantee secured kills is greatly transcendent to anything else we've seen that performs the same job role. It's obnoxious, it's changing the way the game is played in a bad way, and it is indeed overpowered when a person is playing it correctly.

But I do have to say, bad Heralds are just bad though. This is like the inversion of the Soulbeast problem. The Soulbeast overperforms in mid range tiers but its lacking at high tiers. The Herald underperforms at mid tiers, but is overperforming at high tiers, when there is proper team play.

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@Snellibee.2761 said:

@"Miyu.8137" said:All these topics about nerfing "InsertRandomClass" won't help anything. Can you not be more specific? What exactly do you find OP? What skill? What trait? What utility? When we know, we can actually discuss the problematic parts and evantually propose solution.

At first, you'd think it's the damage output. But it isn't actually the damage that's the problem, it's the chase potential. You seriously cannot escape a Herald that wants you dead. Between Unrelenting Assault and Phase Traversal, it's too much chase power. If it engages you when you are already low on resources, there is no way to counter play the mixture of its chase potential paired with its very consistent high damage output. Unlike a Soulbeast, who has his kill burst in short intervals that go on significant CDs, the Herald actually has high "Damage Per Second", even with random spam attacks, that ultimately cannot be avoided.

Preferably Arenanet needs to configure something so that heralds are easier to disengage. If they don't want to do that, they should lower the damage output.

I think this is reasonable. An energy cost bump to phase traversal might be a good place to start, and if that isn't enough have unrelenting check its range after every hit so that you cant magnet to people that blink/port far away.

I say that tentatively though. Getting harassed at range by bomb-and-disengage condi builds or projectiles ain't a good feel, and they dont have as much block potential as guards. Gonna need to buff their active defenses if you want them to not stick to you the moment they see you.

So either nerf damage or nerf chase/buff defense. And depending on when they land from there, condi cleanse or a significant buff to resistance on mallyx to make people consider corruption line.

The whole idea of revenant is to be able to chase their enemy. That's their role just like thief can chase you forever. Also why do you expect to be able to run away if you're out of cooldowns? You shouldn't be able to survive if you manage your CD's bad and are in a vulnerable spot. That's your fault.Turning down mobility and increasing defense will literally make revenant a warrior 2.0.Phase Traversal already is 35 energy, it doesn't need any higher energy requirements at all because you can already barely cast any other skill after using Phase Traversal.

People need to understand that it's actually more worth to duel the Revenant than to try and run away. Revenants aren't particulary good in 1v1's unless the user is very skilled. If that's the case you're just getting outplayed so you have to deal with that.

The only overtuned skill on Revenant is sword 5. A 20% damage nerf is all that it needs.

PS: Kiting on non port spots basically nullifies a Revenant so begin with doing that.

Class in heavy armor is better to be warrior 2.0 with mist animation than thief 2.0. Understand one thing that meta shiro took the potential development of a thief in all elite specializations. As long as there is such an approach to Rev, the thief will suffer.Thematic role is missing: boon spam +1. What the hell is that?It was necessary to put legendary shiro stance on a level with other legends and watch what is missing the rest of the legends.P. S. I understand you spent time on the study of meta shiro and as kill playing in this build. So you don't want to lose this opportunity but there will be no development without changes.

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@"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:

@"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:Honestly just add a cast time to ALL facets, passive skills and active skills including heal

All facets have cast time except facet of darkness which is the stunbreak so it's normal that it doesn't have a cast time

Except Facet of Darkness obviously. For all other facets add cast time. The passive skills for all facets except heal and elite do not have cast times. You can pop facets all at once for significant DPS increase in an instant. It's too easy for Herald to upkeep.

The heal active should have a cast time as well.

It's too easy to upkeep? You can't even keep all facets active at once, keeping your three utility facets up will result in you not gaining any energy to keep using your weapon skills with. Imagine giving facets a cast time to activate, so now you have to go through two cast times if you want to activate Elemental Blast and Burst of Strength.

Sorry dude but facets do not need a change at all

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@Maddog.3716 said:

@"Miyu.8137" said:All these topics about nerfing "InsertRandomClass" won't help anything. Can you not be more specific? What exactly do you find OP? What skill? What trait? What utility? When we know, we can actually discuss the problematic parts and evantually propose solution.

At first, you'd think it's the damage output. But it isn't actually the damage that's the problem, it's the chase potential. You seriously cannot escape a Herald that wants you dead. Between Unrelenting Assault and Phase Traversal, it's too much chase power. If it engages you when you are already low on resources, there is no way to counter play the mixture of its chase potential paired with its very consistent high damage output. Unlike a Soulbeast, who has his kill burst in short intervals that go on significant CDs, the Herald actually has high "Damage Per Second", even with random spam attacks, that ultimately cannot be avoided.

Preferably Arenanet needs to configure something so that heralds are easier to disengage. If they don't want to do that, they should lower the damage output.

I think this is reasonable. An energy cost bump to phase traversal might be a good place to start, and if that isn't enough have unrelenting check its range after every hit so that you cant magnet to people that blink/port far away.

I say that tentatively though. Getting harassed at range by bomb-and-disengage condi builds or projectiles ain't a good feel, and they dont have as much block potential as guards. Gonna need to buff their active defenses if you want them to not stick to you the moment they see you.

So either nerf damage or nerf chase/buff defense. And depending on when they land from there, condi cleanse or a significant buff to resistance on mallyx to make people consider corruption line.

The whole idea of revenant is to be able to chase their enemy. That's their role just like thief can chase you forever. Also why do you expect to be able to run away if you're out of cooldowns? You shouldn't be able to survive if you manage your CD's bad and are in a vulnerable spot. That's your fault.Turning down mobility and increasing defense will literally make revenant a warrior 2.0.Phase Traversal already is 35 energy, it doesn't need any higher energy requirements at all because you can already barely cast any other skill after using Phase Traversal.

People need to understand that it's actually more worth to duel the Revenant than to try and run away. Revenants aren't particulary good in 1v1's unless the user is very skilled. If that's the case you're just getting outplayed so you have to deal with that.

The only overtuned skill on Revenant is sword 5. A 20% damage nerf is all that it needs.

PS: Kiting on non port spots basically nullifies a Revenant so begin with doing that.

Class in heavy armor is better to be warrior 2.0 with mist animation than thief 2.0. Understand one thing that meta shiro took the potential development of a thief in all elite specializations. As long as there is such an approach to Rev, the thief will suffer.Thematic role is missing: boon spam +1. What the hell is that?It was necessary to put legendary shiro stance on a level with other legends and watch what is missing the rest of the legends.P. S. I understand you spent time on the study of meta shiro and as kill playing in this build. So you don't want to lose this opportunity but there will be no development without changes.

Theres a difference between a bunch of low leveled and low skilled people wanting a total revamp of Revenant and the high leveled high skilled players who's only complaints with Revenant are Sword 5 (Deathstrike) doing too much damage and Shiro F2 being able to crit.

So far most people in this thread have been the first group of people. Just shows the average skilllevel the forums has to offer once again

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