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nerf rev before everyone quits


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@Snellibee.2761 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:Just remove all damage from shiro f2

this to some extent, remove the scaling of might and make it not being able to crit and im happy

On the wiki Shiro F2 shouldn't even do damage which is quite interesting that it does in-game.

Probably not updated the wiki since its not anet doing it but actual players

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@Snellibee.2761 said:

@"Miyu.8137" said:All these topics about nerfing "InsertRandomClass" won't help anything. Can you not be more specific? What exactly do you find OP? What skill? What trait? What utility? When we know, we can actually discuss the problematic parts and evantually propose solution.

At first, you'd think it's the damage output. But it isn't actually the damage that's the problem, it's the chase potential. You seriously cannot escape a Herald that wants you dead. Between Unrelenting Assault and Phase Traversal, it's too much chase power. If it engages you when you are already low on resources, there is no way to counter play the mixture of its chase potential paired with its very consistent high damage output. Unlike a Soulbeast, who has his kill burst in short intervals that go on significant CDs, the Herald actually has high "Damage Per Second", even with random spam attacks, that ultimately cannot be avoided.

Preferably Arenanet needs to configure something so that heralds are easier to disengage. If they don't want to do that, they should lower the damage output.

I think this is reasonable. An energy cost bump to phase traversal might be a good place to start, and if that isn't enough have unrelenting check its range after every hit so that you cant magnet to people that blink/port far away.

I say that tentatively though. Getting harassed at range by bomb-and-disengage condi builds or projectiles ain't a good feel, and they dont have as much block potential as guards. Gonna need to buff their active defenses if you want them to not stick to you the moment they see you.

So either nerf damage or nerf chase/buff defense. And depending on when they land from there, condi cleanse or a significant buff to resistance on mallyx to make people consider corruption line.

The whole idea of revenant is to be able to chase their enemy. That's their role just like thief can chase you forever. Also why do you expect to be able to run away if you're out of cooldowns? You shouldn't be able to survive if you manage your CD's bad and are in a vulnerable spot. That's your fault.Turning down mobility and increasing defense will literally make revenant a warrior 2.0.Phase Traversal already is 35 energy, it doesn't need any higher energy requirements at all because you can already barely cast any other skill after using Phase Traversal.

People need to understand that it's actually more worth to duel the Revenant than to try and run away. Revenants aren't particulary good in 1v1's unless the user is very skilled. If that's the case you're just getting outplayed so you have to deal with that.

The only overtuned skill on Revenant is sword 5. A 20% damage nerf is all that it needs.

PS: Kiting on non port spots basically nullifies a Revenant so begin with doing that.

Class in heavy armor is better to be warrior 2.0 with mist animation than thief 2.0. Understand one thing that meta shiro took the potential development of a thief in all elite specializations. As long as there is such an approach to Rev, the thief will suffer.Thematic role is missing: boon spam +1. What the hell is that?It was necessary to put legendary shiro stance on a level with other legends and watch what is missing the rest of the legends.P. S. I understand you spent time on the study of meta shiro and as kill playing in this build. So you don't want to lose this opportunity but there will be no development without changes.

Theres a difference between a bunch of low leveled and low skilled people wanting a total revamp of Revenant and the high leveled high skilled players who's only complaints with Revenant are Sword 5 (Deathstrike) doing too much damage and Shiro F2 being able to crit.

So far most people in this thread have been the first group of people. Just shows the average skilllevel the forums has to offer once again

Maybe everything can be.

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I can only say what is obvious and unrelated to a specific game mode :1.) The hammer is in competition to all the other long range classes like ele and ranger while revenant shouldn't be a long range class by game logic because of his heavy armor.2.) The herold glint legend has the easiest access to boons no boon duration extension required aka full berserker with schooler rune which is absolute broken.3.) Revenant isn't a great DPS class

So what I would do is properly reduce the ranger of the hammer , reduce the duration of the boons around 20% so that you need at least 2-3 diviner pieces.I would also nerf the hammer in terms of dmg and then buff the whole base class a bit so +/- = 0

I would also point out a deeper problem(which this is part of) which Arena.NET caused the last 9 month which I call 'heavy metal meta' which became dominant in all game modes. I want to say beforehand the ultimate consequence of all this is that Arena.NET took away the whole high risk high reward gameplay in GW2 or the risk is so high that nobody wants to play it.(like swordweaver).

Meta per game mode :

Fraktals/Raids : FB, Renegade, 2 DH, Warrior with flags / all in heavy armour :/WvW : FB , Herold, 2X Scourge, Warrior or Engi / a lot in heavy armour with a few exceptions :/PvP : FB, 2x Scourge, Warrior or DH or Herold or Engi , Mirage or Thief or Swordweaver or Ranger / a lot better better but still a domination of heavy armour

I think people start to understand what I mean with 'heavy metal meta'. The reason for me is that Arena.NET continued this year to nerf Druid and Chrono also the nerf an Ele went to far, DH became to strong , Thief miss survivability and Ranger lakes a spot in wvw zerk and a bit of dmg as Souldbeast in PvE also Warrior is with axe, axe too aoeish

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How would removing shiro f2s damage (or ability to crit) change anything? Like out of all things to complain about with Rev, THAT is what some people want to remove? Im missing something because the people in this thread asking for that are good players.

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Things that I think are fair targets for nerfs (not all together):

-Elemental Blast damage (I always saw this as Glint's condi damage skill, but it works better on power builds. Would like the burning application to be easier to achieve as currently they have to get hit by the last tick)-Burst of Strength damage modifier-Shiro True Nature damage (not being able to crit would be fair IMO. Perhaps give it a different functionality besides damage? I strongly disagree with increasing the CD or decreasing the radius as it it an important skill to other Herald builds)-Phase Traversal damage modifier (10% isn't much, but really it is a bit unnecessary. The skill already offers enough without it.)-Sword 5 damage (the port, slow, and chill application are already powerful and offer a lot of utility, the damage is too much with everything else it offers)-Sword 4 being reverted in functionality to a block + flipover (core Rev and Renegade currently have no access to a defensive offhand weapon and axe/sword overlap in functionality)

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@"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:Things that I think are fair targets for nerfs (not all together):

-Elemental Blast damage (I always saw this as Glint's condi damage skill, but it works better on power builds. Would like the burning application to be easier to achieve as currently they have to get hit by the last tick)

From a purely selfish perspective, Elemental Blast has aaaaaalways genuinely upset me.

As someone frequently sidenodes who often needs to utilize No Port spots when handling Thieves and Revs rotating in to +1 Elemental Blast being able to do potentially 50% of my max health at range after I've done a jumping puzzle the rev has completely failed at is obnoxious. And I'm not the

who thinks so.
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@mortrialus.3062 said:

@"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:Things that I think are fair targets for nerfs (not all together):

-Elemental Blast damage (I always saw this as Glint's condi damage skill, but it works better on power builds. Would like the burning application to be easier to achieve as currently they have to get hit by the last tick)

From a purely selfish perspective, Elemental Blast has aaaaaalways genuinely upset me.

As someone frequently sidenodes who often needs to utilize No Port spots when handling Thieves and Revs rotating in to +1 Elemental Blast being able to do potentially 50% of my max health at range after I've done a jumping puzzle the rev has completely failed at is obnoxious. And I'm not the
who thinks so.

It's only like 10k dmg so it's fine.

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@Snellibee.2761 said:

@"Miyu.8137" said:All these topics about nerfing "InsertRandomClass" won't help anything. Can you not be more specific? What exactly do you find OP? What skill? What trait? What utility? When we know, we can actually discuss the problematic parts and evantually propose solution.

At first, you'd think it's the damage output. But it isn't actually the damage that's the problem, it's the chase potential. You seriously cannot escape a Herald that wants you dead. Between Unrelenting Assault and Phase Traversal, it's too much chase power. If it engages you when you are already low on resources, there is no way to counter play the mixture of its chase potential paired with its very consistent high damage output. Unlike a Soulbeast, who has his kill burst in short intervals that go on significant CDs, the Herald actually has high "Damage Per Second", even with random spam attacks, that ultimately cannot be avoided.

Preferably Arenanet needs to configure something so that heralds are easier to disengage. If they don't want to do that, they should lower the damage output.

I think this is reasonable. An energy cost bump to phase traversal might be a good place to start, and if that isn't enough have unrelenting check its range after every hit so that you cant magnet to people that blink/port far away.

I say that tentatively though. Getting harassed at range by bomb-and-disengage condi builds or projectiles ain't a good feel, and they dont have as much block potential as guards. Gonna need to buff their active defenses if you want them to not stick to you the moment they see you.

So either nerf damage or nerf chase/buff defense. And depending on when they land from there, condi cleanse or a significant buff to resistance on mallyx to make people consider corruption line.

The whole idea of revenant is to be able to chase their enemy. That's their role just like thief can chase you forever. Also why do you expect to be able to run away if you're out of cooldowns? You shouldn't be able to survive if you manage your CD's bad and are in a vulnerable spot. That's your fault.Turning down mobility and increasing defense will literally make revenant a warrior 2.0.Phase Traversal already is 35 energy, it doesn't need any higher energy requirements at all because you can already barely cast any other skill after using Phase Traversal.

People need to understand that it's actually more worth to duel the Revenant than to try and run away. Revenants aren't particulary good in 1v1's unless the user is very skilled. If that's the case you're just getting outplayed so you have to deal with that.

The only overtuned skill on Revenant is sword 5. A 20% damage nerf is all that it needs.

PS: Kiting on non port spots basically nullifies a Revenant so begin with doing that.

Class in heavy armor is better to be warrior 2.0 with mist animation than thief 2.0. Understand one thing that meta shiro took the potential development of a thief in all elite specializations. As long as there is such an approach to Rev, the thief will suffer.Thematic role is missing: boon spam +1. What the hell is that?It was necessary to put legendary shiro stance on a level with other legends and watch what is missing the rest of the legends.P. S. I understand you spent time on the study of meta shiro and as kill playing in this build. So you don't want to lose this opportunity but there will be no development without changes.

Theres a difference between a bunch of low leveled and low skilled people wanting a total revamp of Revenant and the high leveled high skilled players who's only complaints with Revenant are Sword 5 (Deathstrike) doing too much damage and Shiro F2 being able to crit.

So far most people in this thread have been the first group of people. Just shows the average skilllevel the forums has to offer once again

You talk strangely about qualifications and about people. Probably you consider yourself a high level skill player. I have the feeling that you have created meta shiro build. Although likely there is no, another you even not tried.

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Rev is very broken and actually has been the most powercreeped/broken spec for about 3 seasons now. Here is some constructive ways to nerf it:

  1. Shiro f2 dmg should be lowered considerably(more as a reveal than something that hurts) and the radius should be more melee(240-300) not 600. Reasoning: Currently rev does too much, it assumes a more necro-like role when it can legit strip everyone in the team fight for 3 boons(traited) and do considerable damage that has no tells and is hard to dodge. I think rev needs to compete with thief, and the way thief boon rips is more single target focused rev should be the same.
  2. Deathstrike is probably the biggest offender of rev being as overtuned as it is now. I think this skill is designed well and has counterplay because it is a 2 step skill. With that being said it does a little too much. Rev like thief is a roamer so it needs to be able to chase and kill with ease esp low targets. Deathstrike gives you fury, then chills and slows the enemy, is a 600range instant port and can hit for 5-7k easily. I think the damage on this skill needs to be non critable and something very minor, but everything else should stay the same. Deathstrike needs to serve as a setup to burst, not be the setup AND burst all in one its just too much. Revs should think about what they do after landing it not having a massive advantage after. The equivalent to this on thief would be if thief sword 2 ported to you, immobilized you, and then hit you for 5-7k it would be a little ridiculous so make it similar to that. Chill + slow is a massive advantage as is and the rev needs to combo it with something else for the kill.
  3. Might stacking. I'm completely fine with rev being able to build up 25 might but I think this needs to be more of a process/combo rather than something given for granted. I main necro and one of the biggest things I do to counter a rev is make sure I strip their might the moment it gets a little too high but that doesnt stop them from easily rebuilding back upto 25. Limiting certain might traits or making them an active part of your play rather than passive would promote more skillful play, punish you for tanking rips, and classes that can boon rip will have a larger window to do counterpressure as opposed to now when u can rip their might, they legend swap cleanse and its right back up. There are several might traits on rev and limiting afew of them could easily make that happen.

With that being said I do believe that no matter how anet deals with rev it should still easily do more spike than thief as a roamer. Its sustain compared to thief is considerably lower and over nerfing it to be on par or even lower than thief will remove it from the meta. Rev is a healthy spec when balanced correctly and rev vs thief should be more of a counter comp pick / playstyle change rather than an upgrade v downgrade.

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@"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said:The problem isnt that revs have ridiculous damage, many builds like spb or holo have similar ttk if they land their burst on you. The problem with rev is that their entire skill loadout is overstacked with very strong abilities.

They have some of the best mobility and chasing/focusing potential with:phase traversal, 5s cooldown 1200 rangedeathstrike, 15s cooldown 600 rangesuperspeed, near permanent in assassin, 45s cooldown in glint

They have many very strong, short cooldown damage skills usable at mid-range:sword 2, 3, 4 have 450 range.elemental blast has 600 range, burst of strength 300surge of the mists - deals less damage from 0 up to 600 range (also a cc)

They have multiple very strong defensive skills:3 evades, 1 being a cc, 1 a stun break&evade, one does damage and follows targets (through teleports even).3s instant cast (yes you have to activate the facet first) damage invuln that can heal them to full on a 30s cooldown, all the while they can continue to pressure and do damage.2s channeled block/blind on a 15s cooldown.4 stun breaks, 2 can be used every 10 seconds. One is an evade as well, one is also a blind, reveal, and applies 10 vuln stacks.

And on top of all that, they have a second heal, aoe unblockable boon rip, self perma fury, high might stacks, swiftness, quickness for their tp burst, and can output high vulnerability stacks during their burst.

No class should have such an amazing skill kit.

This post is so biased and lacking of fundations that crumbles under its own weight:

  • You don't mention all the energy that must be paid on top of the cooldown times in order to use ANY Rev skill outside auto attacks. You need 35 units for a single use of Phase Traversal, and 80 units to keep Impossible Odds for 10 seconds. Glint gives you 5 seconds of superspeed each 45 seconds, which is far from being impressive.
  • You need energy to perform the most basic things, as using the healings or the stunbreaks; if a Rev mindlessly depletes its energy in burst loses all that "amazing" mobility and defenses , doesn't matter if their skills are available or in cooldowns.
  • Power Herald has exactly 0 access to stability, has 0 passive defenses and is utterly mediocre at enduring/cleansing conditions.
  • Power Herald has 2 HALF heals: one is really weak (Enchanted Daggers) and the viability of the other one (Infuse Light) relies entirely in how bad is the enemy player (you will heal a lot only if your enemy insists in bursting you after the unmistakable activation sound).
  • Rev lost most of their vuln proc sources over 2018, to the extent that some of them (as Burst of Strenght) have now barely any use.
  • Your statement about Rev having 4 breakstuns every 10 seconds is utterly false and entirely dishonest. Gaze of Darkness has a 20 seconds cooldown, your theory just jumped out for the window, plus Riposting Shadows has a upfront cost of 30 energy unit; not only Revs can't break stuns 4 times each 10 seconds but is also highly unlikely for a Rev to be able to burst 4 breakstuns in a single 10 seconds frame (and if does is doing no damage, spending all resources avoinding damage, and won't be able to do the same in the next legend swap).
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@Buran.3796 said:

@"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said:The problem isnt that revs have ridiculous damage, many builds like spb or holo have similar ttk if they land their burst on you. The problem with rev is that their entire skill loadout is overstacked with very strong abilities.

They have some of the best mobility and chasing/focusing potential with:phase traversal, 5s cooldown 1200 rangedeathstrike, 15s cooldown 600 rangesuperspeed, near permanent in assassin, 45s cooldown in glint

They have many very strong, short cooldown damage skills usable at mid-range:sword 2, 3, 4 have 450 range.elemental blast has 600 range, burst of strength 300surge of the mists - deals less damage from 0 up to 600 range (also a cc)

They have multiple very strong defensive skills:3 evades, 1 being a cc, 1 a stun break&evade, one does damage and follows targets (through teleports even).3s instant cast (yes you have to activate the facet first) damage invuln that can heal them to full on a 30s cooldown, all the while they can continue to pressure and do damage.2s channeled block/blind on a 15s cooldown.4 stun breaks, 2 can be used every 10 seconds. One is an evade as well, one is also a blind, reveal, and applies 10 vuln stacks.

And on top of all that, they have a second heal, aoe unblockable boon rip, self perma fury, high might stacks, swiftness, quickness for their tp burst, and can output high vulnerability stacks during their burst.

No class should have such an amazing skill kit.

This post is so biased and lacking of fundations that crumbles under its own weight:
  • You don't mention all the energy that must be paid on top of the cooldown times in order to use ANY Rev skill outside auto attacks. You need 35 units for a single use of Phase Traversal, and 80 units to keep Impossible Odds for 10 seconds. Glint gives you 5 seconds of superspeed each 45 seconds, which is far from being impressive.
  • You need energy to perform the most basic things, as using the healings or the stunbreaks; if a Rev mindlessly depletes its energy in burst loses all that "amazing" mobility and defenses , doesn't matter if their skills are available or in cooldowns.
  • Power Herald has exactly 0 access to stability, has 0 passive defenses and is utterly mediocre at enduring/cleansing conditions.
  • Power Herald has 2 HALF heals: one is really weak (Enchanted Daggers) and the viability of the other one (Infuse Light) relies entirely in how bad is the enemy player (you will heal a lot only if your enemy insists in bursting you after the unmistakable activation sound).
  • Rev lost most of their vuln proc sources over 2018, to the extent that some of them (as Burst of Strenght) have now barely any use.
  • Your statement about Rev having 4 breakstuns every 10 seconds is utterly false and entirely dishonest. Gaze of Darkness has a 20 seconds cooldown, your theory just jumped out for the window, plus Riposting Shadows has a upfront cost of 30 energy unit; not only Revs can't break stuns 4 times each 10 seconds but is also highly unlikely for a Rev to be able to burst 4 breakstuns in a single 10 seconds frame (and if does is doing no damage, spending all resources avoinding damage, and won't be able to do the same in the next legend swap).

It says 2 every 10 seconds for the stunbreaks...which is UTTERLY true

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@"Buran.3796" said:This post is so biased and lacking of fundations that crumbles under its own weight:

  • You don't mention all the energy that must be paid on top of the cooldown times in order to use ANY Rev skill outside auto attacks. You need 35 units for a single use of Phase Traversal, and 80 units to keep Impossible Odds for 10 seconds. Glint gives you 5 seconds of superspeed each 45 seconds, which is far from being impressive.
  • You need energy to perform the most basic things, as using the healings or the stunbreaks; if a Rev mindlessly depletes its energy in burst loses all that "amazing" mobility and defenses , doesn't matter if their skills are available or in cooldowns.
  • Power Herald has exactly 0 access to stability, has 0 passive defenses and is utterly mediocre at enduring/cleansing conditions.
  • Power Herald has 2 HALF heals: one is really weak (Enchanted Daggers) and the viability of the other one (Infuse Light) relies entirely in how bad is the enemy player (you will heal a lot only if your enemy insists in bursting you after the unmistakable activation sound).
  • Rev lost most of their vuln proc sources over 2018, to the extent that some of them (as Burst of Strenght) have now barely any use.
  • Your statement about Rev having 4 breakstuns every 10 seconds is utterly false and entirely dishonest. Gaze of Darkness has a 20 seconds cooldown, your theory just jumped out for the window, plus Riposting Shadows has a upfront cost of 30 energy unit; not only Revs can't break stuns 4 times each 10 seconds but is also highly unlikely for a Rev to be able to burst 4 breakstuns in a single 10 seconds frame (and if does is doing no damage, spending all resources avoinding damage, and won't be able to do the same in the next legend swap).

Yes, i am well aware that rev skills use energy. Any good rev player should know how to manage energy properly. If you avoid spamming skills when they arent needed revs will nearly always have enough to use whatever skill they need at that moment.

I am also very aware at how weak rev is vs condi. However since the meta is mostly power builds, that doesnt hurt them nearly as much anymore, they can also take runes such as leadership to significantly help their cleansing ability. They also make up for not having stab by having all their other defensives and stun breaks (check again i said 2 every 10 seconds not 4).

A heal skill is either a heal skill, or not one at all. just because assassins heal doesnt restore an immediate chunk of hp, does not mean it is a "half skill". It still heals, up to 6k, and does up to 5k free damage. Glints heal can easily be activated when an enemy is in mid animation of attacking, or you can use it and stand in aoe. Just because it can be used at a bad time doesnt make it a "half heal".

Just because rev lost some vuln application, doesnt mean they lost it all. They get 5 stacks upon entering combat, gaze of darkness applies 10, shackling wave applies 8, and sword autos apply 1-2 more.

Thank you for your constructive and completely unbiased response.

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The mirage nerfs shows that it was keeping other classes in check, particularly revs, sbs, and slbs. It's not that mirage shouldn't have been nerfed. It's just that those classes needed to be nerfed too. Although, it is better having many OP builds than just one. But with the soulbeast unblockables, it might not actually be any different.

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@torben.1532 said:So far the only constructive thing i‘ve Seen here is naru‘s postUnlikely. These theoretical analyses poke a finger at the sky.If will nerf/buff anet will do it its own way and it will be completely different from the ideas suggested here.P. S. Any departure from Meta even hybrid condi is better to use shiro(Lmao). It is worth considering why.As the man above wrote about mirage this also applies to meta shiro. Meta shiro holding back other features Rev

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@NotoriousNaru.1705 said:Rev is very broken and actually has been the most powercreeped/broken spec for about 3 seasons now. Here is some constructive ways to nerf it:

  1. Shiro f2 dmg should be lowered considerably(more as a reveal than something that hurts) and the radius should be more melee(240-300) not 600. Reasoning: Currently rev does too much, it assumes a more necro-like role when it can legit strip everyone in the team fight for 3 boons(traited) and do considerable damage that has no tells and is hard to dodge. I think rev needs to compete with thief, and the way thief boon rips is more single target focused rev should be the same.
  2. Deathstrike is probably the biggest offender of rev being as overtuned as it is now. I think this skill is designed well and has counterplay because it is a 2 step skill. With that being said it does a little too much. Rev like thief is a roamer so it needs to be able to chase and kill with ease esp low targets. Deathstrike gives you fury, then chills and slows the enemy, is a 600range instant port and can hit for 5-7k easily. I think the damage on this skill needs to be non critable and something very minor, but everything else should stay the same. Deathstrike needs to serve as a setup to burst, not be the setup AND burst all in one its just too much. Revs should think about what they do after landing it not having a massive advantage after. The equivalent to this on thief would be if thief sword 2 ported to you, immobilized you, and then hit you for 5-7k it would be a little ridiculous so make it similar to that. Chill + slow is a massive advantage as is and the rev needs to combo it with something else for the kill.
  3. Might stacking. I'm completely fine with rev being able to build up 25 might but I think this needs to be more of a process/combo rather than something given for granted. I main necro and one of the biggest things I do to counter a rev is make sure I strip their might the moment it gets a little too high but that doesnt stop them from easily rebuilding back upto 25. Limiting certain might traits or making them an active part of your play rather than passive would promote more skillful play, punish you for tanking rips, and classes that can boon rip will have a larger window to do counterpressure as opposed to now when u can rip their might, they legend swap cleanse and its right back up. There are several might traits on rev and limiting afew of them could easily make that happen.

This is the closest someone who doesn't play rev as much has come to saying something correct and reasonable. Although you do have God of PvP so that's a bit expected.

I think it's important to note specifically how the might stacks were powercrept. Plenty of classes can stack 25 might, but it feels worse on rev because notoriety was buffed to give rev an additional 250 power for might stacks which was a 100% unnecessary buff. They could and should just revert that and it might ( no pun intended ) be fine.

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@Maddog.3716 said:

@"Miyu.8137" said:All these topics about nerfing "InsertRandomClass" won't help anything. Can you not be more specific? What exactly do you find OP? What skill? What trait? What utility? When we know, we can actually discuss the problematic parts and evantually propose solution.

At first, you'd think it's the damage output. But it isn't actually the damage that's the problem, it's the chase potential. You seriously cannot escape a Herald that wants you dead. Between Unrelenting Assault and Phase Traversal, it's too much chase power. If it engages you when you are already low on resources, there is no way to counter play the mixture of its chase potential paired with its very consistent high damage output. Unlike a Soulbeast, who has his kill burst in short intervals that go on significant CDs, the Herald actually has high "Damage Per Second", even with random spam attacks, that ultimately cannot be avoided.

Preferably Arenanet needs to configure something so that heralds are easier to disengage. If they don't want to do that, they should lower the damage output.

I think this is reasonable. An energy cost bump to phase traversal might be a good place to start, and if that isn't enough have unrelenting check its range after every hit so that you cant magnet to people that blink/port far away.

I say that tentatively though. Getting harassed at range by bomb-and-disengage condi builds or projectiles ain't a good feel, and they dont have as much block potential as guards. Gonna need to buff their active defenses if you want them to not stick to you the moment they see you.

So either nerf damage or nerf chase/buff defense. And depending on when they land from there, condi cleanse or a significant buff to resistance on mallyx to make people consider corruption line.

The whole idea of revenant is to be able to chase their enemy. That's their role just like thief can chase you forever. Also why do you expect to be able to run away if you're out of cooldowns? You shouldn't be able to survive if you manage your CD's bad and are in a vulnerable spot. That's your fault.Turning down mobility and increasing defense will literally make revenant a warrior 2.0.Phase Traversal already is 35 energy, it doesn't need any higher energy requirements at all because you can already barely cast any other skill after using Phase Traversal.

People need to understand that it's actually more worth to duel the Revenant than to try and run away. Revenants aren't particulary good in 1v1's unless the user is very skilled. If that's the case you're just getting outplayed so you have to deal with that.

The only overtuned skill on Revenant is sword 5. A 20% damage nerf is all that it needs.

PS: Kiting on non port spots basically nullifies a Revenant so begin with doing that.

Class in heavy armor is better to be warrior 2.0 with mist animation than thief 2.0. Understand one thing that meta shiro took the potential development of a thief in all elite specializations. As long as there is such an approach to Rev, the thief will suffer.Thematic role is missing: boon spam +1. What the hell is that?It was necessary to put legendary shiro stance on a level with other legends and watch what is missing the rest of the legends.P. S. I understand you spent time on the study of meta shiro and as kill playing in this build. So you don't want to lose this opportunity but there will be no development without changes.

Theres a difference between a bunch of low leveled and low skilled people wanting a total revamp of Revenant and the high leveled high skilled players who's only complaints with Revenant are Sword 5 (Deathstrike) doing too much damage and Shiro F2 being able to crit.

So far most people in this thread have been the first group of people. Just shows the average skilllevel the forums has to offer once again

You talk strangely about qualifications and about people. Probably you consider yourself a high level skill player. I have the feeling that you have created meta shiro build. Although likely there is no, another you even not tried.

I based my post on people who are high skilled and on my own experience as a Revenant. I do not claim to be high skilled but therefor it does not mean I cannot state what other high skilled players think about the class. My statements with the experience as a Revenant player are also more worth and valuable than the statements made by people who have never played said class but are making suggestions about it.

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@NotoriousNaru.1705 said:Rev is very broken and actually has been the most powercreeped/broken spec for about 3 seasons now. Here is some constructive ways to nerf it:

  1. Shiro f2 dmg should be lowered considerably(more as a reveal than something that hurts) and the radius should be more melee(240-300) not 600. Reasoning: Currently rev does too much, it assumes a more necro-like role when it can legit strip everyone in the team fight for 3 boons(traited) and do considerable damage that has no tells and is hard to dodge. I think rev needs to compete with thief, and the way thief boon rips is more single target focused rev should be the same.
  2. Deathstrike is probably the biggest offender of rev being as overtuned as it is now. I think this skill is designed well and has counterplay because it is a 2 step skill. With that being said it does a little too much. Rev like thief is a roamer so it needs to be able to chase and kill with ease esp low targets. Deathstrike gives you fury, then chills and slows the enemy, is a 600range instant port and can hit for 5-7k easily. I think the damage on this skill needs to be non critable and something very minor, but everything else should stay the same. Deathstrike needs to serve as a setup to burst, not be the setup AND burst all in one its just too much. Revs should think about what they do after landing it not having a massive advantage after. The equivalent to this on thief would be if thief sword 2 ported to you, immobilized you, and then hit you for 5-7k it would be a little ridiculous so make it similar to that. Chill + slow is a massive advantage as is and the rev needs to combo it with something else for the kill.
  3. Might stacking. I'm completely fine with rev being able to build up 25 might but I think this needs to be more of a process/combo rather than something given for granted. I main necro and one of the biggest things I do to counter a rev is make sure I strip their might the moment it gets a little too high but that doesnt stop them from easily rebuilding back upto 25. Limiting certain might traits or making them an active part of your play rather than passive would promote more skillful play, punish you for tanking rips, and classes that can boon rip will have a larger window to do counterpressure as opposed to now when u can rip their might, they legend swap cleanse and its right back up. There are several might traits on rev and limiting afew of them could easily make that happen.

With that being said I do believe that no matter how anet deals with rev it should still easily do more spike than thief as a roamer. Its sustain compared to thief is considerably lower and over nerfing it to be on par or even lower than thief will remove it from the meta. Rev is a healthy spec when balanced correctly and rev vs thief should be more of a counter comp pick / playstyle change rather than an upgrade v downgrade.

There's nothing more to add or take from this post. Everything stated is justified and legit adjusments were suggested.

This thread can be closed now

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@Maddog.3716 said:

@torben.1532 said:So far the only constructive thing i‘ve Seen here is naru‘s postUnlikely. These theoretical analyses poke a finger at the sky.If will nerf/buff anet will do it its own way and it will be completely different from the ideas suggested here.P. S. Any departure from Meta even hybrid condi is better to use shiro(Lmao). It is worth considering why.As the man above wrote about mirage this also applies to meta shiro. Meta shiro holding back other features Rev

If meta shiro wasn't a thing Revenant would be in the same place Ele is right now. It's not meta shiro holding back other features of the class, it's that the other features do not hold any value over any other options given by other classes.

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@Snellibee.2761 said:

@"Miyu.8137" said:All these topics about nerfing "InsertRandomClass" won't help anything. Can you not be more specific? What exactly do you find OP? What skill? What trait? What utility? When we know, we can actually discuss the problematic parts and evantually propose solution.

At first, you'd think it's the damage output. But it isn't actually the damage that's the problem, it's the chase potential. You seriously cannot escape a Herald that wants you dead. Between Unrelenting Assault and Phase Traversal, it's too much chase power. If it engages you when you are already low on resources, there is no way to counter play the mixture of its chase potential paired with its very consistent high damage output. Unlike a Soulbeast, who has his kill burst in short intervals that go on significant CDs, the Herald actually has high "Damage Per Second", even with random spam attacks, that ultimately cannot be avoided.

Preferably Arenanet needs to configure something so that heralds are easier to disengage. If they don't want to do that, they should lower the damage output.

I think this is reasonable. An energy cost bump to phase traversal might be a good place to start, and if that isn't enough have unrelenting check its range after every hit so that you cant magnet to people that blink/port far away.

I say that tentatively though. Getting harassed at range by bomb-and-disengage condi builds or projectiles ain't a good feel, and they dont have as much block potential as guards. Gonna need to buff their active defenses if you want them to not stick to you the moment they see you.

So either nerf damage or nerf chase/buff defense. And depending on when they land from there, condi cleanse or a significant buff to resistance on mallyx to make people consider corruption line.

The whole idea of revenant is to be able to chase their enemy. That's their role just like thief can chase you forever. Also why do you expect to be able to run away if you're out of cooldowns? You shouldn't be able to survive if you manage your CD's bad and are in a vulnerable spot. That's your fault.Turning down mobility and increasing defense will literally make revenant a warrior 2.0.Phase Traversal already is 35 energy, it doesn't need any higher energy requirements at all because you can already barely cast any other skill after using Phase Traversal.

People need to understand that it's actually more worth to duel the Revenant than to try and run away. Revenants aren't particulary good in 1v1's unless the user is very skilled. If that's the case you're just getting outplayed so you have to deal with that.

The only overtuned skill on Revenant is sword 5. A 20% damage nerf is all that it needs.

PS: Kiting on non port spots basically nullifies a Revenant so begin with doing that.

Class in heavy armor is better to be warrior 2.0 with mist animation than thief 2.0. Understand one thing that meta shiro took the potential development of a thief in all elite specializations. As long as there is such an approach to Rev, the thief will suffer.Thematic role is missing: boon spam +1. What the hell is that?It was necessary to put legendary shiro stance on a level with other legends and watch what is missing the rest of the legends.P. S. I understand you spent time on the study of meta shiro and as kill playing in this build. So you don't want to lose this opportunity but there will be no development without changes.

Theres a difference between a bunch of low leveled and low skilled people wanting a total revamp of Revenant and the high leveled high skilled players who's only complaints with Revenant are Sword 5 (Deathstrike) doing too much damage and Shiro F2 being able to crit.

So far most people in this thread have been the first group of people. Just shows the average skilllevel the forums has to offer once again

You talk strangely about qualifications and about people. Probably you consider yourself a high level skill player. I have the feeling that you have created meta shiro build. Although likely there is no, another you even not tried.

I based my post on people who are high skilled and on my own experience as a Revenant. I do not claim to be high skilled but therefor it does not mean I cannot state what other high skilled players think about the class. My statements with the experience as a Revenant player are also more worth and valuable than the statements made by people who have never played said class but are making suggestions about it.

Sorry I did not understand the post

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@Snellibee.2761 said:

@torben.1532 said:So far the only constructive thing i‘ve Seen here is naru‘s postUnlikely. These theoretical analyses poke a finger at the sky.If will nerf/buff anet will do it its own way and it will be completely different from the ideas suggested here.P. S. Any departure from Meta even hybrid condi is better to use shiro(Lmao). It is worth considering why.As the man above wrote about mirage this also applies to meta shiro. Meta shiro holding back other features Rev

If meta shiro wasn't a thing Revenant would be in the same place Ele is right now. It's not meta shiro holding back other features of the class, it's that the other features do not hold any value over any other options given by other classes.

Perhaps that there is no have another Rev builds there is potential. Try it yourself if you are interested and you will be surprised. Especially if the enemy team is missing meta shiro, which helps to kill the team quickly.As a result, meta shiro is overpowered, if people complain about it and it hinders the ability to use other features of Rev. I don't think Rev will become Ele. If this happens then it is in any case a change that can shift the overall system. The system is need to shake, meta shiro has long been sitting smoothly.This is my opinion I do not pretend to be true, I am for the power of change.

P. S. In principle, it is not my problem, I have long been playing a game where I sit and think about the talents that I choose and my finally build.I apologize if I'm meddling. It is interesting to go to the gw2 forum and read any changes. In my opinion nothing changes here. Goodbye, gl hf!!

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