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Noob Necro's questions on Scourge


trooper.2650

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  • Do the F1 to F5 skills work without placing the shades? (I think yes, they do) But then,
  • What is the point of placing them? Is it to have better battle field control?
  • Are the F skills more powerfull when used after placing the shades?
  • Does anything happen when I stand in the shade without activating the F skills? (Do the shades have a passive utility ability?)
  • Does anything happen when an enemy walks in the shade but I do not activate any F skill? (Do the shades have a passive damaging ability?)
  • Is it viable/worth fighting outside the node and leaving a shade on the node protected by a team mate? By doing so, would I be able to convert conditions from myself and allies at the same time by pressing F1, for example?

I may have more questions later on :bleep_bloop:

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Yes. It's like shatters on mesmer. There is also an effect on you.

To reach targets at range and to hit more targets.

No. The skills are the same but with shades they jsut trigger from more points.

There are minor traits that gives you boon and condi duration + take less damage depending on the amount of shades you have up.

No, nothing happens unless you use a F1 to F5 skill.

There may be some issues with line of sight preventing the skills to trigger form that shade. Not sure what the status is on that. But you can do what you described.

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@trooper.2650 said:

  • Do the F1 to F5 skills work without placing the shades? (I think yes, they do) But then,
  • What is the point of placing them? Is it to have better battle field control?
  • Are the F skills more powerfull when used after placing the shades?
  • Does anything happen when I stand in the shade without activating the F skills? (Do the shades have a passive utility ability?)
  • Does anything happen when an enemy walks in the shade but I do not activate any F skill? (Do the shades have a passive damaging ability?)
  • Is it viable/worth fighting outside the node and leaving a shade on the node protected by a team mate? By doing so, would I be able to convert conditions from myself and allies at the same time by pressing F1, for example?

I may have more questions later on :bleep_bloop:

  1. F1 - F5 also work without placing shades; however F5 only proccs Dhuumfire with each pulse on a shade, and only the first pulse on yourself (propably a bug, but since we will propably only see the first Necro fixes in a few months....)
  2. The point of placing them is a) every time you summon one, they do one pulse of damage that triggers dhuumfire. Also, thanks to the nerf targeted at WvW but hitting Scourge across the board, you will only hit 3 mobs/allies without using a shade. Also, to attack at range. Also, see my comment about how F5 works.
  3. Yes, in the sense you can hit more people (3 for you + 3 per shade; also some stuff apparently stacks from multiple shades currently, but have not yet confirmed this for my self)
  4. No.
  5. No.
  6. Yes, as long as the shade is up you will cleanse yourself via the pulse on you, and allies that stand on the shade.

Hope this helps.

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Thank you guys, very much appreciated :)

@Shiki.7148You mentioned Dhuumfire.

  • Is it not a GM trait in Soul Reaping?
  • What if I do not use that specialization? Would the shade / F5 trigger it anyway?
  • Where do you read about Dhuumfire, anyway? I cannot find any tooltip about it.
  • Let us say I place a shade on an enemy, what would immediately happen to him/her? Wild guess:
  • Get damanged, torment and cripple through F1, fear through F4, damage and torment through F5
  • Burn through Sadistic Searing or
  • Corrupt boons through Unending Corruption

Whereas, I would get:

  • 2 condis in to boons through F2, a barrier through F3 and F5 and
  • 1 condi clear + 2 stck might through Abrasive Grit, plus
  • concentration + expertize x active shade through Sand Sage
  • a barrier through Desert Empowerment

Is this all? Am I correct? Am I missing anything?

This is going to help me quite a lot, I guess :)

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@trooper.2650 said:

  • Do the F1 to F5 skills work without placing the shades? (I think yes, they do) But then,
  • What is the point of placing them? Is it to have better battle field control?
  • Are the F skills more powerfull when used after placing the shades?
  • Does anything happen when I stand in the shade without activating the F skills? (Do the shades have a passive utility ability?)
  • Does anything happen when an enemy walks in the shade but I do not activate any F skill? (Do the shades have a passive damaging ability?)
  • Is it viable/worth fighting outside the node and leaving a shade on the node protected by a team mate? By doing so, would I be able to convert conditions from myself and allies at the same time by pressing F1, for example?

I may have more questions later on :bleep_bloop:

  • Yes, F2-F5 trigger on yourself and on shades
  • For better reach/ coverage, for Shroud 1 traits like dhuum fire.
  • No, you just get better reach/coverage. If there are fights in 2 well distanced places, say 900 range, then you can hit 10 targets instead of the usual 5.
  • No.
  • No.
  • Yes. Once a shade is placed, you can control it from afar, for as long as it lasts.
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A few more questions:

  • Will a foe get hit from both the shade and the player (resulting in double condi application for F5 as an example)?
  • Similarly will an ally get benefit from both the shade and the player (resulting in double condi removal on F2 for example)?
  • Will the player benefit from condi-removal from self-F2 plus shade-F2?
  • Does Sand-Savant make the one shade deal 3x the application of conditions?
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A lot of misinformation in this thread.

Do the F1 to F5 skills work without placing the shades? (I think yes, they do) But then,

Yes, they do

What is the point of placing them? Is it to have better battle field control?

Placing them gives better coverage of area, and you hit more targets. On top of this, you also get more hits on the enemy. If both you and your shade are in range of the same enemy, the same enemy will get additional torment stacks. For example, if you stand next to an enemy, and hit F5, that enemy gets 2 torment stacks/pulse. If you have a shade there as well, it's 3 torment stacks.

Are the F skills more powerfull when used after placing the shades?

Yes, because shades can stack to some extent.

Does anything happen when I stand in the shade without activating the F skills? (Do the shades have a passive utility ability?)

No.

Does anything happen when an enemy walks in the shade but I do not activate any F skill? (Do the shades have a passive damaging ability?)

No.

Is it viable/worth fighting outside the node and leaving a shade on the node protected by a team mate? By doing so, would I be able to convert conditions from myself and allies at the same time by pressing F1, for example?

Yes, but you need to keep line of sight to the shade. Shade skills do not work without LOS.

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@Maunzi.3764 said:A lot of misinformation in this thread.

You're wrong.This is not misinformation. I am not giving wrong information. I asked question I did not know the answer. This thread is inforative because other people can have their questions answered.In fact, others have replied. Their answers are exhaustive. Thread could have been closed, as far as I am concerned.

I would like people not jumping from first to last post without reading what's in between to repeat the same answerws over and over. If people care to read, they will see other have already replied. If you feel there is something they have missed please, add it. But do not repeat the same info again.

Thank you

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@juno.1840 said:So if you overlap one foe with 3 regular shades vs. 1 sand savant shade:

  • Does the foe take 3x the number of conditions from F5 and F4?
  • Does the foe take 3x the number of boon corruptions on a traited F2?
  • Do allies get 3x the number of barriers?
  1. Sort of. The attack that you and shades pulse whenever you use any​ F skill stacks, but some traits only apply once (Dhuumfire and Reaper's Might.) Unyielding Blast, for some reason, does stack per shade.
  2. No. F2-F5 don't affect anyone more than once per cast in the case of being in the area of multiple shades.
  3. See answer to #2.
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Ok, apparently there is a lot of confusion about how shades work. Not surprising, because the way they interact with traits is very inconsistent.First, shades have kind of an auto attack, wich triggers every time you use a F-Skills, including F1 itself, and with every pulse of Sand Shroud. This will apply a bit of torment and trigger some traits. Additionally the original effect of the F-Skill will also apply around the shade, but can only effect a singel target once (per pulse).Now, for some of the trait interactions.

  • Dhuumfire: This will cause you shades, and only your shades, to apply burning but a singel target can't be hit by more then one shade at a time.
  • Unyielding Blast: Shades will cause vulnerability per pulse but for some reason multibel shades appear to be able to hit the same target. I assume this is a bug.
  • Reaper's Might: This will only grad might to you, not to anyone in the shade radius and only when the shade is initially placed.
  • Desert Empowerment: With this your shade will apply barrier but again only when an where it's placed, not when it's pulses.
  • Sadistic Searing: Again only triggers on placement, not on pulse.
  • Unending Corruption: See above.

Edit: A little correction in terms of Dhuumfire. I just tested it again and apparently it will trigger on your location as well but Desert Shroud will still only trigger it once on you, while your shades will still pulse it out 7 times. I remember testing it during the demo weekend and this wasn't the case back them.

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@trooper.2650 said:Thank you guys, very much appreciated :)

@"Shiki.7148"You mentioned Dhuumfire.

  • Is it not a GM trait in Soul Reaping?Yes it is.
  • What if I do not use that specialization? Would the shade / F5 trigger it anyway?No. Every shade/pulse triggers "on shroud #1" effects if you have the specific trait. Just like Scourge's Fear (#4) triggers Transfusion, or Desert Shroud triggers "on entering Shroud" effects , if you took the traits.
  • Where do you read about Dhuumfire, anyway? I cannot find any tooltip about it.See above: "you have to take the Dhuumfire trait"
  • Let us say I place a shade on an enemy, what would immediately happen to him/her? Wild guess:If you took Dhuumfire , they'd get Torment, Cripple, one instance of power type damage, and one stack burning (2 if you also took Demonic Lore). If you took neither, they'd only get Cripple and Torment and the power dmg.
  • Get damanged, torment and cripple through F1, fear through F4, damage and torment through F5Damage , Torment, Cripple on any ability, multiple times on Desert Shroud. From the tooltip : "Whenever you use a shade ability, you and your sand shades strike nearby foes."
  • Burn through Sadistic Searing orIf you used a Punishment skill before.
  • Corrupt boons through Unending CorruptionYep. In this case, only on the summon though.

Whereas, I would get:

  • 2 condis in to boons through F2, a barrier through F3 and F5 and
  • 1 condi clear + 2 stck might through Abrasive Grit, plus
  • concentration + expertize x active shade through Sand Sage
  • a barrier through Desert Empowerment

Is this all? Am I correct? Am I missing anything?Again, as said earlier, every ability from F2 through F4 gives one pulse of damage with torment and cripple, and F5 pulses 7 times that. If you took Dhuumfire, F1 through F4 will also add one stack of Burning (F5 pulses 7 times; however, as stated in my other post, only from shades. From yourself, only the first pulse will inflict burning currently).

This is going to help me quite a lot, I guess :)

And as for "Not playing Soul Reaping"... Don't. If you aren't playing Power Scourge, but condi, Soul Reaping is a MUST; for the bonus LF pool, increased LF gain, and a lot of damage through Dhuumfire.

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Okay so people get things mostly right but more gathered this is what happens with the shade skills, this is also easily tested in-game on any training golem

  1. Everytime you press f1 (or f2-4) you and your shades do one pulse of Manifest Sand Shade hitting enemies in range with 1 stack of cripple and torment + any traits affecting shroud 1 skills, enemies can get hit by multiple pulses from a single cast of MSS if in range of multiple shades and/or you, with Dhuumfire being the anomaly and can only affect an enemy once per cast
  2. Pressing f2 or f3 will trigger their effects only once on targets in range of you or a shade these also cast MSS again, Reaper's Might however is only triggered when pressing f1
  3. Pressing f4 is the same as 2. but f4 also, even though it's not listed, does 9 hidden pulses for the purpose of Transfusion but does nothing extra if you don't have it traited
  4. Pressing f5 is where things are inconsistent, when cast the player character will do one pulse of MSS then 7 pulses of sand shroud, your shades do not use Sand Shroud at all but rather casts MSS 7 times (even though it's listed as sand shroud in the logs)

In conclusion, stacking shades does more damage because MSS can hit the same target multiple times but at the cost of allies having to be in the middle of the fight to be close to either you or a shade

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