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Advice for beating a Holosmith as a deadeye?


Doug.4930

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Just been really having trouble with holo's lately. Their lockon trait which activates controlled analysis and invisible analysis (on hit and on disabled) are both tied to a single trait which both apply revealed for 6 seconds each. Many of them also run utility goggles which gives them another 6s of revealed. Thats a total of 18s revealed it can apply. I can only clear 2 of those reveals assuming I don't use shadow meld to survive its burst. Further more I'm extremely vulnerable to interrupts while casting it.

So any deadeye have advice on how to play against holos?

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For me when I fight holo's, I always always always try to stay out of their corona burst and try to los when I know photon blitz is coming because it can track you in stealth. Also I try to be nowhere near when they have holographic shockwave available as it reveals depending on trait as well as launches you (and this skill also hits vertically too) . If you are marked, you are going to be in a heap of dung if you rely on stealth while trying to fight a holo. Don't let them get stability, and try have an interrupt available. Just chip at them from distance and save big burst only when you know you can pull it off. It's not a favourable fight, but you can still outplay them. Whenever he tries photon blitz and you are too close, just dodge into him to get behind. Playing as a deadeye you have to bring out your mind game to make your opponent lose focus and make mistakes. What kind of build do you run?

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@DemonSeed.3528 said:For me when I fight holo's, I always always always try to stay out of their corona burst and try to los when I know photon blitz is coming because it can track you in stealth. Also I try to be nowhere near when they have holographic shockwave available as it reveals depending on trait as well as launches you (and this skill also hits vertically too) . If you are marked, you are going to be in a heap of dung if you rely on stealth while trying to fight a holo. Don't let them get stability, and try have an interrupt available. Just chip at them from distance and save big burst only when you know you can pull it off. It's not a favourable fight, but you can still outplay them. Whenever he tries photon blitz and you are too close, just dodge into him to get behind. Playing as a deadeye you have to bring out your mind game to make your opponent lose focus and make mistakes. What kind of build do you run?

CS for more damage, SA for condi clears, and ofcourse deadeye. Mix of Marauders/assassins/berserkers/captains. Im trying to run slightly tankier considering how much of thief relies on stealth in days past which you can no longer do. Usually sit at around 2.3k power without might, 223%crit dmg/100%crit chance with perma fury (pack runes + no quarter).

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well bad ones i just faceroll, but guess your talkin about a little better ones.the lock on can be extremely annoying, yet you can outrange most of their attacks and on long range they only got projectiles usually.so i try to open from range, behind a snipers cover, get some malice and retreat to stealth before they close the gap/snipers cover runs out. then with full malice ill just burst them. tho i am running valk, wich means i probably got a much higher burst than you have.

oh and they often do not run utility googles but have the autostunbreak wich activates those the lesser utility googles. for this keep in mind that it triggers from CC AND blind. when i build malice using usually spotters shot from behind snipers cover i will apply blind with the combo finisher wich sets their autostunbreak on CD and provides me a better chance to catch them with a binding shadow.

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@"MUDse.7623" said:well bad ones i just faceroll, but guess your talkin about a little better ones.the lock on can be extremely annoying, yet you can outrange most of their attacks and on long range they only got projectiles usually.so i try to open from range, behind a snipers cover, get some malice and retreat to stealth before they close the gap/snipers cover runs out. then with full malice ill just burst them. tho i am running valk, wich means i probably got a much higher burst than you have.

oh and they often do not run utility googles but have the autostunbreak wich activates those the lesser utility googles. for this keep in mind that it triggers from CC AND blind. when i build malice using usually spotters shot from behind snipers cover i will apply blind with the combo finisher wich sets their autostunbreak on CD and provides me a better chance to catch them with a binding shadow.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQJAUUnsMB9OhlOBGPBUGjldCj7EsBKB8xyb5vcLAUbaTA-j1RSABBpDADlEWocQElgAs/Qxq/MhSsAAHArveAY+5nf+5vvqPf1Xv5nffRBlRA-w

Thats a rough cut, still open to possible changes though.

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@Doug.4930 said:

@"MUDse.7623" said:well bad ones i just faceroll, but guess your talkin about a little better ones.the lock on can be extremely annoying, yet you can outrange most of their attacks and on long range they only got projectiles usually.so i try to open from range, behind a snipers cover, get some malice and retreat to stealth before they close the gap/snipers cover runs out. then with full malice ill just burst them. tho i am running valk, wich means i probably got a much higher burst than you have.

oh and they often do not run utility googles but have the
wich activates those the lesser utility googles. for this keep in mind that it triggers from CC AND blind. when i build malice using usually spotters shot from behind snipers cover i will apply blind with the combo finisher wich sets their autostunbreak on CD and provides me a better chance to catch them with a binding shadow.

Thats a rough cut, still open to possible changes though.

well i am running this, wich is capable of alot higher bursts then your build. wich doesnt mean that you have to play like that, tho if you go the CS+SA route, then i would say this is pretty optimal. other options would be DA/TR variants wich offer different tools to deal with holos aside from raw damage and stealth, but you better ask someone else on that, turk maybe.

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@MUDse.7623 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:well bad ones i just faceroll, but guess your talkin about a little better ones.the lock on can be extremely annoying, yet you can outrange most of their attacks and on long range they only got projectiles usually.so i try to open from range, behind a snipers cover, get some malice and retreat to stealth before they close the gap/snipers cover runs out. then with full malice ill just burst them. tho i am running valk, wich means i probably got a much higher burst than you have.

oh and they often do not run utility googles but have the
wich activates those the lesser utility googles. for this keep in mind that it triggers from CC AND blind. when i build malice using usually spotters shot from behind snipers cover i will apply blind with the combo finisher wich sets their autostunbreak on CD and provides me a better chance to catch them with a binding shadow.

Thats a rough cut, still open to possible changes though.

well i am running
, wich is capable of alot higher bursts then your build. wich doesnt mean that you have to play like that, tho if you go the CS+SA route, then i would say this is pretty optimal. other options would be DA/TR variants wich offer different tools to deal with holos aside from raw damage and stealth, but you better ask someone else on that, turk maybe.

I've been playing a build similar to Turk this week, it's pretty fun. Been playing this;

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAU8Yn0MB1FjlOB+OB0PhFaCj/XWMbmehhvQZQLAMhmNA-jlCEQBMRpB82fwfq/4OdDw5IA4QlZbUJ4uuAAA4gA8gHAwmhAgFJwqKVVVlUAVpMC-w

The basic idea is to work DJ/sword auto bursts around binding shadow and to use skirmisher's shot to build malice while kiting with death's retreat. You can use S/D to hit through blocks and build malice if they're on the defensive, but it's generally ill advised to go melee vs a holo unless they've just left forge and you know it's on cd. I'm less hamstrung by reveal because I'm not using much stealth, which is nice. Just kite until you have full malice and they're on 60% ish health, stealth off the stolen skill then go for the knockdown DJ combo, and hope that's enough.

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@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:well bad ones i just faceroll, but guess your talkin about a little better ones.the lock on can be extremely annoying, yet you can outrange most of their attacks and on long range they only got projectiles usually.so i try to open from range, behind a snipers cover, get some malice and retreat to stealth before they close the gap/snipers cover runs out. then with full malice ill just burst them. tho i am running valk, wich means i probably got a much higher burst than you have.

oh and they often do not run utility googles but have the
wich activates those the lesser utility googles. for this keep in mind that it triggers from CC AND blind. when i build malice using usually spotters shot from behind snipers cover i will apply blind with the combo finisher wich sets their autostunbreak on CD and provides me a better chance to catch them with a binding shadow.

Thats a rough cut, still open to possible changes though.

well i am running
, wich is capable of alot higher bursts then your build. wich doesnt mean that you have to play like that, tho if you go the CS+SA route, then i would say this is pretty optimal. other options would be DA/TR variants wich offer different tools to deal with holos aside from raw damage and stealth, but you better ask someone else on that, turk maybe.

I've been playing a build similar to Turk this week, it's pretty fun. Been playing this;

The basic idea is to work DJ/sword auto bursts around binding shadow and to use skirmisher's shot to build malice while kiting with death's retreat. You can use S/D to hit through blocks and build malice if they're on the defensive, but it's generally ill advised to go melee vs a holo unless they've just left forge and you know it's on cd. I'm less hamstrung by reveal because I'm not using much stealth, which is nice. Just kite until you have full malice and they're on 60% ish health, stealth off the stolen skill then go for the knockdown DJ combo, and hope that's enough.

i have been switching build alot lately cause while the DE build i use is still pretty efficient 1 vs X, its got rather annoying to play. their added weakness with the silentscope nerf is a harder resourcemanagement instead of one that my opponent can exploit, so its annoying for me and still no real help for opponents.so far i wasnt convinced yet by any DA/TR builds for DE in WvW, tho i like to use them on core or DD.while the bountiful theft would be awesome against holo for example, the way one normaly does use the mark its just a bonus and youre not that much using it for the boonrip/interrupt as such, similar with the steal traits in DA. if malice buildup was independed from hitting a marked target(only malice spending needing a mark), then we could use all those nice traits much better.

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@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:well bad ones i just faceroll, but guess your talkin about a little better ones.the lock on can be extremely annoying, yet you can outrange most of their attacks and on long range they only got projectiles usually.so i try to open from range, behind a snipers cover, get some malice and retreat to stealth before they close the gap/snipers cover runs out. then with full malice ill just burst them. tho i am running valk, wich means i probably got a much higher burst than you have.

oh and they often do not run utility googles but have the
wich activates those the lesser utility googles. for this keep in mind that it triggers from CC AND blind. when i build malice using usually spotters shot from behind snipers cover i will apply blind with the combo finisher wich sets their autostunbreak on CD and provides me a better chance to catch them with a binding shadow.

Thats a rough cut, still open to possible changes though.

well i am running
, wich is capable of alot higher bursts then your build. wich doesnt mean that you have to play like that, tho if you go the CS+SA route, then i would say this is pretty optimal. other options would be DA/TR variants wich offer different tools to deal with holos aside from raw damage and stealth, but you better ask someone else on that, turk maybe.

I've been playing a build similar to Turk this week, it's pretty fun. Been playing this;

The basic idea is to work DJ/sword auto bursts around binding shadow and to use skirmisher's shot to build malice while kiting with death's retreat. You can use S/D to hit through blocks and build malice if they're on the defensive, but it's generally ill advised to go melee vs a holo unless they've just left forge and you know it's on cd. I'm less hamstrung by reveal because I'm not using much stealth, which is nice. Just kite until you have full malice and they're on 60% ish health, stealth off the stolen skill then go for the knockdown DJ combo, and hope that's enough.

That build does look alot better at dealing with holo's than mine does. How do you find fighting heavy condition based classes like mesmers for instance?

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@MUDse.7623 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:well bad ones i just faceroll, but guess your talkin about a little better ones.the lock on can be extremely annoying, yet you can outrange most of their attacks and on long range they only got projectiles usually.so i try to open from range, behind a snipers cover, get some malice and retreat to stealth before they close the gap/snipers cover runs out. then with full malice ill just burst them. tho i am running valk, wich means i probably got a much higher burst than you have.

oh and they often do not run utility googles but have the
wich activates those the lesser utility googles. for this keep in mind that it triggers from CC AND blind. when i build malice using usually spotters shot from behind snipers cover i will apply blind with the combo finisher wich sets their autostunbreak on CD and provides me a better chance to catch them with a binding shadow.

Thats a rough cut, still open to possible changes though.

well i am running
, wich is capable of alot higher bursts then your build. wich doesnt mean that you have to play like that, tho if you go the CS+SA route, then i would say this is pretty optimal. other options would be DA/TR variants wich offer different tools to deal with holos aside from raw damage and stealth, but you better ask someone else on that, turk maybe.

If they're sticking with Silent Scope, M7, and Binding Shadow then they could have ranged boon removal at full Malice with Initiative return and could probably go with CS/Hidden Killer over Trickery. Lead Attacks is more like Keep Up Attacks now anyway.

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@MUDse.7623 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:well bad ones i just faceroll, but guess your talkin about a little better ones.the lock on can be extremely annoying, yet you can outrange most of their attacks and on long range they only got projectiles usually.so i try to open from range, behind a snipers cover, get some malice and retreat to stealth before they close the gap/snipers cover runs out. then with full malice ill just burst them. tho i am running valk, wich means i probably got a much higher burst than you have.

oh and they often do not run utility googles but have the
wich activates those the lesser utility googles. for this keep in mind that it triggers from CC AND blind. when i build malice using usually spotters shot from behind snipers cover i will apply blind with the combo finisher wich sets their autostunbreak on CD and provides me a better chance to catch them with a binding shadow.

Thats a rough cut, still open to possible changes though.

well i am running
, wich is capable of alot higher bursts then your build. wich doesnt mean that you have to play like that, tho if you go the CS+SA route, then i would say this is pretty optimal. other options would be DA/TR variants wich offer different tools to deal with holos aside from raw damage and stealth, but you better ask someone else on that, turk maybe.

I've been playing a build similar to Turk this week, it's pretty fun. Been playing this;

The basic idea is to work DJ/sword auto bursts around binding shadow and to use skirmisher's shot to build malice while kiting with death's retreat. You can use S/D to hit through blocks and build malice if they're on the defensive, but it's generally ill advised to go melee vs a holo unless they've just left forge and you know it's on cd. I'm less hamstrung by reveal because I'm not using much stealth, which is nice. Just kite until you have full malice and they're on 60% ish health, stealth off the stolen skill then go for the knockdown DJ combo, and hope that's enough.

i have been switching build alot lately cause while the DE build i use is still pretty efficient 1 vs X, its got rather annoying to play. their added weakness with the silentscope nerf is a harder resourcemanagement instead of one that my opponent can exploit, so its annoying for me and still no real help for opponents.so far i wasnt convinced yet by any DA/TR builds for DE in WvW, tho i like to use them on core or DD.while the bountiful theft would be awesome against holo for example, the way one normaly does use the mark its just a bonus and youre not that much using it for the boonrip/interrupt as such, similar with the steal traits in DA. if malice buildup was independed from hitting a marked target(only malice spending needing a mark), then we could use all those nice traits much better.

Yeah, same here tbh, the silent scope nerf hurt my S/P interrupt build too so it's a good time to try other stuff. I previously disregarded DA trick DE as it has no swiftness without hitting something or sacrificing runes (fireworks runes are a welcome addition in that regard), but mounts make that a none issue. I guess I'm playing it pretty similarly to core thief, which admittedly is better trait wise for the steal synergy, I just think rifle is stronger than shortbow vs a number of opponents because of the range, damage, projectile block and boon access, so with M7 for the protection and ini it's worth giving up acro imo especially if you take mercy over roll for initiative to make up for swindlers equilibrium. DE simply makes for a better bruiser build than daredevil does, which I find quite sad.

The permastealth build is still good, I'm against Gandara and Baruch bay this week tho and a lot of roamers there make full use of the mark tricks when you're outnumbered, so running minimal stealth is actually safer atm. Also the permastealth build is very rock paper scissors, especially since mounts drastically reduce the number of opportunities to land a malicious backstab. You either roflstomp something or it roflstomps you, there's no in between. With DA trick DE you have more tools to work with.

@Doug.4930 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:well bad ones i just faceroll, but guess your talkin about a little better ones.the lock on can be extremely annoying, yet you can outrange most of their attacks and on long range they only got projectiles usually.so i try to open from range, behind a snipers cover, get some malice and retreat to stealth before they close the gap/snipers cover runs out. then with full malice ill just burst them. tho i am running valk, wich means i probably got a much higher burst than you have.

oh and they often do not run utility googles but have the
wich activates those the lesser utility googles. for this keep in mind that it triggers from CC AND blind. when i build malice using usually spotters shot from behind snipers cover i will apply blind with the combo finisher wich sets their autostunbreak on CD and provides me a better chance to catch them with a binding shadow.

Thats a rough cut, still open to possible changes though.

well i am running
, wich is capable of alot higher bursts then your build. wich doesnt mean that you have to play like that, tho if you go the CS+SA route, then i would say this is pretty optimal. other options would be DA/TR variants wich offer different tools to deal with holos aside from raw damage and stealth, but you better ask someone else on that, turk maybe.

I've been playing a build similar to Turk this week, it's pretty fun. Been playing this;

The basic idea is to work DJ/sword auto bursts around binding shadow and to use skirmisher's shot to build malice while kiting with death's retreat. You can use S/D to hit through blocks and build malice if they're on the defensive, but it's generally ill advised to go melee vs a holo unless they've just left forge and you know it's on cd. I'm less hamstrung by reveal because I'm not using much stealth, which is nice. Just kite until you have full malice and they're on 60% ish health, stealth off the stolen skill then go for the knockdown DJ combo, and hope that's enough.

That build does look alot better at dealing with holo's than mine does. How do you find fighting heavy condition based classes like mesmers for instance?

It's tricky, I've actually been shut down by a couple of core trailblazer necros this week that clearly knew what they were doing. Try to fight over a point if possible to give then reason to not just chase you down, you have to maintain range against necros as even a couple of bleed stacks will take you to half health over time because of the crazy long durations. Using sword dagger to pressure and putting a cleansing sigil on the rifle instead of impact helps vs mesmers, saving withdraw for when you have large torment stacks helps a lot too. Swapping to hide in shadows for the heal is also good if you see them coming, either that or the deadeye heal if you want to troll. The other utilities are kinda needed tho so while swapping binding shadow for signet of agility helps the condi problem it significantly reduces your pressure in a fight. If you play for distance and use skirmisher's shot to build malice you can set up a knockdown spike before you get too many condis if you're careful tho, you have to kite a lot on this build.

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@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:well bad ones i just faceroll, but guess your talkin about a little better ones.the lock on can be extremely annoying, yet you can outrange most of their attacks and on long range they only got projectiles usually.so i try to open from range, behind a snipers cover, get some malice and retreat to stealth before they close the gap/snipers cover runs out. then with full malice ill just burst them. tho i am running valk, wich means i probably got a much higher burst than you have.

oh and they often do not run utility googles but have the
wich activates those the lesser utility googles. for this keep in mind that it triggers from CC AND blind. when i build malice using usually spotters shot from behind snipers cover i will apply blind with the combo finisher wich sets their autostunbreak on CD and provides me a better chance to catch them with a binding shadow.

Thats a rough cut, still open to possible changes though.

well i am running
, wich is capable of alot higher bursts then your build. wich doesnt mean that you have to play like that, tho if you go the CS+SA route, then i would say this is pretty optimal. other options would be DA/TR variants wich offer different tools to deal with holos aside from raw damage and stealth, but you better ask someone else on that, turk maybe.

I've been playing a build similar to Turk this week, it's pretty fun. Been playing this;

The basic idea is to work DJ/sword auto bursts around binding shadow and to use skirmisher's shot to build malice while kiting with death's retreat. You can use S/D to hit through blocks and build malice if they're on the defensive, but it's generally ill advised to go melee vs a holo unless they've just left forge and you know it's on cd. I'm less hamstrung by reveal because I'm not using much stealth, which is nice. Just kite until you have full malice and they're on 60% ish health, stealth off the stolen skill then go for the knockdown DJ combo, and hope that's enough.

i have been switching build alot lately cause while the DE build i use is still pretty efficient 1 vs X, its got rather annoying to play. their added weakness with the silentscope nerf is a harder resourcemanagement instead of one that my opponent can exploit, so its annoying for me and still no real help for opponents.so far i wasnt convinced yet by any DA/TR builds for DE in WvW, tho i like to use them on core or DD.while the bountiful theft would be awesome against holo for example, the way one normaly does use the mark its just a bonus and youre not that much using it for the boonrip/interrupt as such, similar with the steal traits in DA. if malice buildup was independed from hitting a marked target(only malice spending needing a mark), then we could use all those nice traits much better.

Yeah, same here tbh, the silent scope nerf hurt my S/P interrupt build too so it's a good time to try other stuff. I previously disregarded DA trick DE as it has no swiftness without hitting something or sacrificing runes (fireworks runes are a welcome addition in that regard), but mounts make that a none issue. I guess I'm playing it pretty similarly to core thief, which admittedly is better trait wise for the steal synergy, I just think rifle is stronger than shortbow vs a number of opponents because of the range, damage, projectile block and boon access, so with M7 for the protection and ini it's worth giving up acro imo especially if you take mercy over roll for initiative to make up for swindlers equilibrium. DE simply makes for a better bruiser build than daredevil does, which I find quite sad.

The permastealth build is still good, I'm against Gandara and Baruch bay this week tho and a lot of roamers there make full use of the mark tricks when you're outnumbered, so running minimal stealth is actually safer atm. Also the permastealth build is very rock paper scissors, especially since mounts drastically reduce the number of opportunities to land a malicious backstab. You either roflstomp something or it roflstomps you, there's no in between. With DA trick DE you have more tools to work with.

@MUDse.7623 said:well bad ones i just faceroll, but guess your talkin about a little better ones.the lock on can be extremely annoying, yet you can outrange most of their attacks and on long range they only got projectiles usually.so i try to open from range, behind a snipers cover, get some malice and retreat to stealth before they close the gap/snipers cover runs out. then with full malice ill just burst them. tho i am running valk, wich means i probably got a much higher burst than you have.

oh and they often do not run utility googles but have the
wich activates those the lesser utility googles. for this keep in mind that it triggers from CC AND blind. when i build malice using usually spotters shot from behind snipers cover i will apply blind with the combo finisher wich sets their autostunbreak on CD and provides me a better chance to catch them with a binding shadow.

Thats a rough cut, still open to possible changes though.

well i am running
, wich is capable of alot higher bursts then your build. wich doesnt mean that you have to play like that, tho if you go the CS+SA route, then i would say this is pretty optimal. other options would be DA/TR variants wich offer different tools to deal with holos aside from raw damage and stealth, but you better ask someone else on that, turk maybe.

I've been playing a build similar to Turk this week, it's pretty fun. Been playing this;

The basic idea is to work DJ/sword auto bursts around binding shadow and to use skirmisher's shot to build malice while kiting with death's retreat. You can use S/D to hit through blocks and build malice if they're on the defensive, but it's generally ill advised to go melee vs a holo unless they've just left forge and you know it's on cd. I'm less hamstrung by reveal because I'm not using much stealth, which is nice. Just kite until you have full malice and they're on 60% ish health, stealth off the stolen skill then go for the knockdown DJ combo, and hope that's enough.

That build does look alot better at dealing with holo's than mine does. How do you find fighting heavy condition based classes like mesmers for instance?

It's tricky, I've actually been shut down by a couple of core trailblazer necros this week that clearly knew what they were doing. Try to fight over a point if possible to give then reason to not just chase you down, you have to maintain range against necros as even a couple of bleed stacks will take you to half health over time because of the crazy long durations. Using sword dagger to pressure and putting a cleansing sigil on the rifle instead of impact helps vs mesmers, saving withdraw for when you have large torment stacks helps a lot too. Swapping to hide in shadows for the heal is also good if you see them coming, either that or the deadeye heal if you want to troll. The other utilities are kinda needed tho so while swapping binding shadow for signet of agility helps the condi problem it significantly reduces your pressure in a fight. If you play for distance and use skirmisher's shot to build malice you can set up a knockdown spike before you get too many condis if you're careful tho, you have to kite a lot on this build.

I've been using quick or be killed along with haste rather than m7/binding shadow combo. Would you say m7/binding shadow is the better combination?

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@Doug.4930 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:well bad ones i just faceroll, but guess your talkin about a little better ones.the lock on can be extremely annoying, yet you can outrange most of their attacks and on long range they only got projectiles usually.so i try to open from range, behind a snipers cover, get some malice and retreat to stealth before they close the gap/snipers cover runs out. then with full malice ill just burst them. tho i am running valk, wich means i probably got a much higher burst than you have.

oh and they often do not run utility googles but have the
wich activates those the lesser utility googles. for this keep in mind that it triggers from CC AND blind. when i build malice using usually spotters shot from behind snipers cover i will apply blind with the combo finisher wich sets their autostunbreak on CD and provides me a better chance to catch them with a binding shadow.

Thats a rough cut, still open to possible changes though.

well i am running
, wich is capable of alot higher bursts then your build. wich doesnt mean that you have to play like that, tho if you go the CS+SA route, then i would say this is pretty optimal. other options would be DA/TR variants wich offer different tools to deal with holos aside from raw damage and stealth, but you better ask someone else on that, turk maybe.

I've been playing a build similar to Turk this week, it's pretty fun. Been playing this;

The basic idea is to work DJ/sword auto bursts around binding shadow and to use skirmisher's shot to build malice while kiting with death's retreat. You can use S/D to hit through blocks and build malice if they're on the defensive, but it's generally ill advised to go melee vs a holo unless they've just left forge and you know it's on cd. I'm less hamstrung by reveal because I'm not using much stealth, which is nice. Just kite until you have full malice and they're on 60% ish health, stealth off the stolen skill then go for the knockdown DJ combo, and hope that's enough.

i have been switching build alot lately cause while the DE build i use is still pretty efficient 1 vs X, its got rather annoying to play. their added weakness with the silentscope nerf is a harder resourcemanagement instead of one that my opponent can exploit, so its annoying for me and still no real help for opponents.so far i wasnt convinced yet by any DA/TR builds for DE in WvW, tho i like to use them on core or DD.while the bountiful theft would be awesome against holo for example, the way one normaly does use the mark its just a bonus and youre not that much using it for the boonrip/interrupt as such, similar with the steal traits in DA. if malice buildup was independed from hitting a marked target(only malice spending needing a mark), then we could use all those nice traits much better.

Yeah, same here tbh, the silent scope nerf hurt my S/P interrupt build too so it's a good time to try other stuff. I previously disregarded DA trick DE as it has no swiftness without hitting something or sacrificing runes (fireworks runes are a welcome addition in that regard), but mounts make that a none issue. I guess I'm playing it pretty similarly to core thief, which admittedly is better trait wise for the steal synergy, I just think rifle is stronger than shortbow vs a number of opponents because of the range, damage, projectile block and boon access, so with M7 for the protection and ini it's worth giving up acro imo especially if you take mercy over roll for initiative to make up for swindlers equilibrium. DE simply makes for a better bruiser build than daredevil does, which I find quite sad.

The permastealth build is still good, I'm against Gandara and Baruch bay this week tho and a lot of roamers there make full use of the mark tricks when you're outnumbered, so running minimal stealth is actually safer atm. Also the permastealth build is very rock paper scissors, especially since mounts drastically reduce the number of opportunities to land a malicious backstab. You either roflstomp something or it roflstomps you, there's no in between. With DA trick DE you have more tools to work with.

@MUDse.7623 said:well bad ones i just faceroll, but guess your talkin about a little better ones.the lock on can be extremely annoying, yet you can outrange most of their attacks and on long range they only got projectiles usually.so i try to open from range, behind a snipers cover, get some malice and retreat to stealth before they close the gap/snipers cover runs out. then with full malice ill just burst them. tho i am running valk, wich means i probably got a much higher burst than you have.

oh and they often do not run utility googles but have the
wich activates those the lesser utility googles. for this keep in mind that it triggers from CC AND blind. when i build malice using usually spotters shot from behind snipers cover i will apply blind with the combo finisher wich sets their autostunbreak on CD and provides me a better chance to catch them with a binding shadow.

Thats a rough cut, still open to possible changes though.

well i am running
, wich is capable of alot higher bursts then your build. wich doesnt mean that you have to play like that, tho if you go the CS+SA route, then i would say this is pretty optimal. other options would be DA/TR variants wich offer different tools to deal with holos aside from raw damage and stealth, but you better ask someone else on that, turk maybe.

I've been playing a build similar to Turk this week, it's pretty fun. Been playing this;

The basic idea is to work DJ/sword auto bursts around binding shadow and to use skirmisher's shot to build malice while kiting with death's retreat. You can use S/D to hit through blocks and build malice if they're on the defensive, but it's generally ill advised to go melee vs a holo unless they've just left forge and you know it's on cd. I'm less hamstrung by reveal because I'm not using much stealth, which is nice. Just kite until you have full malice and they're on 60% ish health, stealth off the stolen skill then go for the knockdown DJ combo, and hope that's enough.

That build does look alot better at dealing with holo's than mine does. How do you find fighting heavy condition based classes like mesmers for instance?

It's tricky, I've actually been shut down by a couple of core trailblazer necros this week that clearly knew what they were doing. Try to fight over a point if possible to give then reason to not just chase you down, you have to maintain range against necros as even a couple of bleed stacks will take you to half health over time because of the crazy long durations. Using sword dagger to pressure and putting a cleansing sigil on the rifle instead of impact helps vs mesmers, saving withdraw for when you have large torment stacks helps a lot too. Swapping to hide in shadows for the heal is also good if you see them coming, either that or the deadeye heal if you want to troll. The other utilities are kinda needed tho so while swapping binding shadow for signet of agility helps the condi problem it significantly reduces your pressure in a fight. If you play for distance and use skirmisher's shot to build malice you can set up a knockdown spike before you get too many condis if you're careful tho, you have to kite a lot on this build.

I've been using quick or be killed along with haste rather than m7/binding shadow combo. Would you say m7/binding shadow is the better combination?

for fights lasting longer than 6-7 seconds, yes.

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@MUDse.7623 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:well bad ones i just faceroll, but guess your talkin about a little better ones.the lock on can be extremely annoying, yet you can outrange most of their attacks and on long range they only got projectiles usually.so i try to open from range, behind a snipers cover, get some malice and retreat to stealth before they close the gap/snipers cover runs out. then with full malice ill just burst them. tho i am running valk, wich means i probably got a much higher burst than you have.

oh and they often do not run utility googles but have the
wich activates those the lesser utility googles. for this keep in mind that it triggers from CC AND blind. when i build malice using usually spotters shot from behind snipers cover i will apply blind with the combo finisher wich sets their autostunbreak on CD and provides me a better chance to catch them with a binding shadow.

Thats a rough cut, still open to possible changes though.

well i am running
, wich is capable of alot higher bursts then your build. wich doesnt mean that you have to play like that, tho if you go the CS+SA route, then i would say this is pretty optimal. other options would be DA/TR variants wich offer different tools to deal with holos aside from raw damage and stealth, but you better ask someone else on that, turk maybe.

I've been playing a build similar to Turk this week, it's pretty fun. Been playing this;

The basic idea is to work DJ/sword auto bursts around binding shadow and to use skirmisher's shot to build malice while kiting with death's retreat. You can use S/D to hit through blocks and build malice if they're on the defensive, but it's generally ill advised to go melee vs a holo unless they've just left forge and you know it's on cd. I'm less hamstrung by reveal because I'm not using much stealth, which is nice. Just kite until you have full malice and they're on 60% ish health, stealth off the stolen skill then go for the knockdown DJ combo, and hope that's enough.

i have been switching build alot lately cause while the DE build i use is still pretty efficient 1 vs X, its got rather annoying to play. their added weakness with the silentscope nerf is a harder resourcemanagement instead of one that my opponent can exploit, so its annoying for me and still no real help for opponents.so far i wasnt convinced yet by any DA/TR builds for DE in WvW, tho i like to use them on core or DD.while the bountiful theft would be awesome against holo for example, the way one normaly does use the mark its just a bonus and youre not that much using it for the boonrip/interrupt as such, similar with the steal traits in DA. if malice buildup was independed from hitting a marked target(only malice spending needing a mark), then we could use all those nice traits much better.

Yeah, same here tbh, the silent scope nerf hurt my S/P interrupt build too so it's a good time to try other stuff. I previously disregarded DA trick DE as it has no swiftness without hitting something or sacrificing runes (fireworks runes are a welcome addition in that regard), but mounts make that a none issue. I guess I'm playing it pretty similarly to core thief, which admittedly is better trait wise for the steal synergy, I just think rifle is stronger than shortbow vs a number of opponents because of the range, damage, projectile block and boon access, so with M7 for the protection and ini it's worth giving up acro imo especially if you take mercy over roll for initiative to make up for swindlers equilibrium. DE simply makes for a better bruiser build than daredevil does, which I find quite sad.

The permastealth build is still good, I'm against Gandara and Baruch bay this week tho and a lot of roamers there make full use of the mark tricks when you're outnumbered, so running minimal stealth is actually safer atm. Also the permastealth build is very rock paper scissors, especially since mounts drastically reduce the number of opportunities to land a malicious backstab. You either roflstomp something or it roflstomps you, there's no in between. With DA trick DE you have more tools to work with.

@MUDse.7623 said:well bad ones i just faceroll, but guess your talkin about a little better ones.the lock on can be extremely annoying, yet you can outrange most of their attacks and on long range they only got projectiles usually.so i try to open from range, behind a snipers cover, get some malice and retreat to stealth before they close the gap/snipers cover runs out. then with full malice ill just burst them. tho i am running valk, wich means i probably got a much higher burst than you have.

oh and they often do not run utility googles but have the
wich activates those the lesser utility googles. for this keep in mind that it triggers from CC AND blind. when i build malice using usually spotters shot from behind snipers cover i will apply blind with the combo finisher wich sets their autostunbreak on CD and provides me a better chance to catch them with a binding shadow.

Thats a rough cut, still open to possible changes though.

well i am running
, wich is capable of alot higher bursts then your build. wich doesnt mean that you have to play like that, tho if you go the CS+SA route, then i would say this is pretty optimal. other options would be DA/TR variants wich offer different tools to deal with holos aside from raw damage and stealth, but you better ask someone else on that, turk maybe.

I've been playing a build similar to Turk this week, it's pretty fun. Been playing this;

The basic idea is to work DJ/sword auto bursts around binding shadow and to use skirmisher's shot to build malice while kiting with death's retreat. You can use S/D to hit through blocks and build malice if they're on the defensive, but it's generally ill advised to go melee vs a holo unless they've just left forge and you know it's on cd. I'm less hamstrung by reveal because I'm not using much stealth, which is nice. Just kite until you have full malice and they're on 60% ish health, stealth off the stolen skill then go for the knockdown DJ combo, and hope that's enough.

That build does look alot better at dealing with holo's than mine does. How do you find fighting heavy condition based classes like mesmers for instance?

It's tricky, I've actually been shut down by a couple of core trailblazer necros this week that clearly knew what they were doing. Try to fight over a point if possible to give then reason to not just chase you down, you have to maintain range against necros as even a couple of bleed stacks will take you to half health over time because of the crazy long durations. Using sword dagger to pressure and putting a cleansing sigil on the rifle instead of impact helps vs mesmers, saving withdraw for when you have large torment stacks helps a lot too. Swapping to hide in shadows for the heal is also good if you see them coming, either that or the deadeye heal if you want to troll. The other utilities are kinda needed tho so while swapping binding shadow for signet of agility helps the condi problem it significantly reduces your pressure in a fight. If you play for distance and use skirmisher's shot to build malice you can set up a knockdown spike before you get too many condis if you're careful tho, you have to kite a lot on this build.

I've been using quick or be killed along with haste rather than m7/binding shadow combo. Would you say m7/binding shadow is the better combination?

for fights lasting longer than 6-7 seconds, yes.

Yeah, pretty much what MUDse said. If you think you can one shot someone or if you're building quickness for S/P then bqobk is a good trait, but M7 with the boon access on top of the ini outshines it by miles if you take S/D as your offhand since the main attacks don't benefit from quickness nearly as much. If you really miss the quickness, you can use celerity sigil as I have to get basically the same effect since it works on disable, so as long as mark lands it will proc, relying on the might from M7 and revealed training from DA to more than make up for the lost power. I'm already on 85-90% crit chance without bqobk, so it's kinda not needed really.

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