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(Spoilers inside) Suspicious issues with Lyssa


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3 hours ago, DaFishBob.6518 said:

Ah that's what I missed when remembering that. I just thought I'd bring it up again since all this talk of unreliable narrator makes me wonder why you may have actually trusted the words of Councillor Flax who to me is meant to represent the head of an overly stiff and bureaucratic governing body that can't really react to serious threats in a timely and appropriate manner.

I'd say Flax is the one councillor who would act in a time-appropriate manner, given how quick he was to imprison Gorr. For merely voicing the notion of Elder Dragons eating magic, Gorr was arrested in less than 30 minutes (and that's assuming PS instances function on 5x increased speed scale) after his first public statement. That's insane speed on the Arcane Eye's part, especially for the supposed bureaucratic mess the asuran system is, and they were confirmed by Flax himself to be working on his orders at the end of the storyline.

 

As seen in the weather-o-matic storyline, he's pretty lenient when it comes to punishing those who benefit the asuran dominance plan as he blames Zojja for Kudu's blatant attempt to assassinate the entire council. The same thing that he promises to kill Haia in due time for. It's a curious distinction to make, tbh. And when it threatens his or asuran dominance in some way, he seems pretty quick to act as seen with Gorr. Flax is more pragmatic than the constantly-called-pragmatic-by-players Smodur, as Flax is very quick to accept alternative methodologies that provide equal or better benefit with better or equal PR (respectively), but has always been as ruthless as IBS Smodur as well.

 

At least that's what I get from him in the seven asura PS storylines.

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Hello Everyone, Just a reminder to keep it civil and avoid attacking each other. Regards.

Ah right, it doesn't fit your head-cannon. Carry on.

Lazarus: Tell me, Livia. Do you have children? Grandchildren? Great-grandchildren? Livia: I do not. Lazarus: How disappointing. Your line dies with you. You've wasted lifetimes on me. L

On 12/27/2021 at 12:15 AM, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

And the analogy is made outright:

Livia: (deep breath) You believe the ravings of a lunatic?
<Character name>: I do, actually. It explains why Anise defers to you—like a grown child to a parent.

The Commander is not a reliable source of Livia's lineage. Besides the commander is probably just calling Livia old in a way that doesn't result in a beating. It is just invoking the idea of Livia being an elder, and a very very elder elder.

 

I wouldn't rate that line very high up that it is actually a hint of some hidden lineage.

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4 hours ago, PseudoNewb.5468 said:

The Commander is not a reliable source of Livia's lineage.

I'm aware it's not infallible.

My point is that Livia saying "I have no children" to her mortal enemy is even less reliable, and the very existence of the Commander's line creates and implication.

4 hours ago, PseudoNewb.5468 said:

Besides the commander is probably just calling Livia old in a way that doesn't result in a beating.

The commander isn't talking about Livia's age there though, that's a different line entirely (and implied by calling her Livia). They're talking about her relation to Anise specifically.

 

Ya'll are so kitten gung ho about denying the possibility that I present, which is ironic given many of you are also proclaiming that I do nothing but deny the possibility of others' interpretations.

Edited by Konig Des Todes.2086
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I think what people are trying to say is that what you are saying isn't just "not infallible", but in fact, very, very fallible.

Also, the commander's "like a grown child to a parent" remark strikes more as a narrative setup for Livia's follow-up line:

"Livia: The Shining Blade is my family. I hope this secret is safe with you—for their sake."

It's just a little wordplay to tell us how the Shining Blade is a found family (which, by the way, is one of the most popular tropes in entertainment literature, especially recently). Blood relation, even if there was any, would be completely irrelevant, hence why it is quite unlikely that there is.

Edited by Adamixos.6785
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4 hours ago, Adamixos.6785 said:

I think what people are trying to say is that what you are saying isn't just "not infallible", but in fact, very, very fallible.

But apparently Livia telling her mortal enemy she has no children isn't at all fallible, I guess.

And it's fully okay to proclaim to someone that their opinions is nothing but wrong, but hell is raised if that someone dares to suggest another's opinion may not be the only interpretation.

That's nothing short of twitter-level hypocrisy. And that's really my issue at this point. That, and people are constantly telling me I'm nothing but wrong over and over and over again. Even when two weeks passes since a comment was last made on the topic.

 

But you know what, kitten it, gang up on me. I don't care anymore. Have your twitter-level hypocrisy.

Edited by Konig Des Todes.2086
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I got to agree with Konig,  when I recently did that mission again it with context of her and how Anise treats everyone different then Livia I would assume Anise is her daughter or grand daughter. Also  her wanting to keep her identity a secret even after the mursat is dead would be she has more enemies and doesn't want anyone else she knows to get her hurt.

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6 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

But apparently Livia telling her mortal enemy she has no children isn't at all fallible, I guess.

And it's fully okay to proclaim to someone that their opinions is nothing but wrong, but hell is raised if that someone dares to suggest another's opinion may not be the only interpretation.

That's nothing short of twitter-level hypocrisy. And that's really my issue at this point. That, and people are constantly telling me I'm nothing but wrong over and over and over again. Even when two weeks passes since a comment was last made on the topic.

 

But you know what, kitten it, gang up on me. I don't care anymore. Have your twitter-level hypocrisy.

Sorry if the two week thing is a reference to me. I'm not active enough to have been able to point out the error earlier and I felt like it'd be a good way to get my O/T question in to satisfy my curiosity.

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12 hours ago, DaFishBob.6518 said:

Sorry if the two week thing is a reference to me. I'm not active enough to have been able to point out the error earlier and I felt like it'd be a good way to get my O/T question in to satisfy my curiosity.

Wasn't referring to you, as you were just correcting when the dialogue was and not telling me that I was wrong about how to interpret the lines of dialogue after several others had done just that. You're fine.

And for clarity: There's no real statute of limitations on lore posts among the community, so long as it's constructive. Better to thread necro than to have ten threads on the same topic. But it is an kitten move to do so just to be repetitiously insulting or hypocritical as others have been in this thread.

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On 12/23/2021 at 4:04 PM, Ninutra.7926 said:

This may not be much, but this is what one finds in description of Vision: 
 


Now, I don't know how credible a description of a legendary trinket is, but this, again, emphasises Lyssa's relation to Balthazar. And that the gods probably don't know of his death.
If Lyssa, either alone or with the other gods, comes seeking vengence on us, I think it would make for a neat story and an excuse to see them again and see some development.

While she is known for her love for mortals, I don't know how she would react to this. I believe that giving ye ol' Balth the mirror was her wanting him to succeed at his plans, or at least live under an illusion of his (or her???) choice. I imagine getting the news about him dead would be at least annoying (provided she gets the news in... wherever she is now). 

The legendary trinket is indeed a strong hint that the mirror wasn't an accident. Could you imagine the crazy things they could pull off with Lyssa being the Antagonist? A master of Illusion? Like just fighting her could become nigh impossible when your very perception of reality is wrong. Could also make for some mind-bending plotlines if they have a good writer. 

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I just can't imagine Livia having kids,  It just doesn't seem to fit her personality.  She's always seemed somewhat standoffish.  I don't see her finding a man she finds acceptable to be the father of her children.

Edited by DarcShriek.5829
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I hope that this thread does not get locked. Because the point of the forums is for discourse about subjects of interest and this topic deserved discussion. I wish that individuals would stop commandeering these topic for their petty arguments.

 

These forums are for the lively, cordial debate of subjects of interest about the lore of Guild Wars. We are allowed to disagree on subjects, but we should NEVER allow our discourse to be reduced to bitter posts and personal targeted attacks. We need people to be "the bigger person" and stand above the muck and mire that has become these forums recently, not shallowly stoop to their level.

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1 hour ago, Narcemus.1348 said:

I hope that this thread does not get locked. Because the point of the forums is for discourse about subjects of interest and this topic deserved discussion. I wish that individuals would stop commandeering these topic for their petty arguments.

 

These forums are for the lively, cordial debate of subjects of interest about the lore of Guild Wars. We are allowed to disagree on subjects, but we should NEVER allow our discourse to be reduced to bitter posts and personal targeted attacks. We need people to be "the bigger person" and stand above the muck and mire that has become these forums recently, not shallowly stoop to their level.

That's why I want this one to be locked, even after a warning from a Mod people are attacking others rather than having an honest discussion, though God knows what that discussion was.

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