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Please nerf Mesmer, Engineer and Warrior.


EremiteAngel.9765

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I think it is unfair that Soulbeast is getting all the attention while 3 other classes go unnoticed.I'm not sure exactly what needs changing but seeing that they are sitting above Soulbeasts, then something needs to be toned down about those other classes too.We all know from the other threads what needs to be adjusted on Soulbeasts.Now please share your thoughts on the things that need to be adjusted on these other classes.Thanks ?

http://www.polljunkie.com/poll/pptrem/most-op-wvw-1-vs-1-class-mid-2019/view

2.8Mesmer3.3Engineer3.5Warrior3.6Ranger5.3Revenant5.3Thief6.7Elementalist6.9Guardian7.5Necromancer

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Mesmer should not be nerf-rework Mesmer design entirelyThief-severely nerf to the ground--increase initiatives across the board in all stats by 50% (no exceptions) - rework Thief design entirelyWarrior-sever nerf needed-severely rework warrior traits and mechanicsNecromancer-should not be nerf-rework Necromancer traits, mechanics, pets and weaponsGuardian-nerf needed-rework Guardian Spirit weaponsEngineer-severe nerf neededRevenant-severe nerf neededRanger- nerf needed-rework Rangers pets, spirits and weaponsElementalist-- (The Profession with no identity?? -The Misunderstood Profession-complete redesign Elementalist entirely)

Sympathy for Elementalist

Lastly----Complete removal of stealth from all professions--(no exceptions)

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Actually I think it would just be easier if they buffed Elementalist, revert some nerfs to Thief and Mesmer, and then everyone can be equally OP, and would save a lot of pointless threads about nerfs or balance that will never materialize.

Burst damage is over the top, and the majority of meta builds are OP. Let's just standardize that OP'ness, forget that pressing 4 different keys rapidly in succession equates skill, and just accept it as the new normal.

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Mesmer has to be the worst balance class I have ever seen in any game. They have absolutely everything for both defense and offense: stealth, teleports, evades, clones, high damage (power or condi) . They should make one simple change: You cannot cause any damage while in Stealth, including Dots that would terminate if you go into stealth, along with not being able to stealth if clones are causing damage. This would 'fix' the condi-mesmer/thief cheese as well as the power mesmer, or at the very least, produce some sort of counter play. Other classes have these features, but they have to sacrifice some off/def for the other. Not with Karl's little baby though...

People will jump all over this, but why is a mesmer the prefer commander nowadays? Cause they can do everything with no real weaknesses if the player has 2 thumbs and half a brain.

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Heh, what a weird way to ask for nerfs. "I'm not sure what's wrong but top three classes needs to be nerfed, simply by being in top three." I mean, what happens if these three gets nerfed? You realize there will always be top three, right? It's never ending cycle. But I guess we'll ask next 100 people for opinion and balance game around that.

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Soulbeasts are a gimmick build with a huge burst that requires minimal APM.

Mirage has a few full roaming builds, which while having a higher skill floor, allow for delivering equally high bursts while even being more unfair in that it can do so while being invulnerable for the period of time it does this.

The downside is the mesmer cant be played by someone with potatoes for hands like the soulbeast can. If it could, there would be multiplicitively more mirages than soulbeasts, rather than just a few more.

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@"SoV.5139" said:Soulbeasts are a gimmick build with a huge burst that requires minimal APM.

Mirage has a few full roaming builds, which while having a higher skill floor, allow for delivering equally high bursts while even being more unfair in that it can do so while being invulnerable for the period of time it does this.

The downside is the mesmer cant be played by someone with potatoes for hands like the soulbeast can. If it could, there would be multiplicitively more mirages than soulbeasts, rather than just a few more.

And then Anet comes and balances classes based on some statistics. Meanwhile rangers (pve/pvp and since pof in roaming), guards and warrs (all modes) are played by potato players and constantly strong for years, where eles (all modes) and thieves (pvp/wvw) require actual combat and game knowledge so your "average" ele/thief is as skilled as pro ranger/war/guard. Meaning that in order to be a useful ele, you have to play like god, and if you do that, you perform too good - NERF (been a thing in pve since HoT basically). So in order for an average ele to perform as well as average r/g/w, those classes need to be strong by default.

At least they have some standards when it comes to balancing necros because that would be a monstrosity otherwise.

It also doesn't surprise me how holo hasn't been touched since PoF because it dumbed down the whole class below necro levels. And when potatoes play the class it doesn't matter how strong that class actually is, the only thing that matters is how well they perform.

The only thing I don't understand is why mesmer was so OP literally everywhere since HoT (4 whole years at least) and condi mesmer could literally be played blindfolded and still be extremely successful.

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As a weaver roamer (yeah i know, its heresy around here, but i like it) i find mirage the most OP class i've ever seen. Usually, i can deal with warriors (after they blow up every Stances) thieves or soulbeast, after i reflect their burst in their face...But Mirage...For god's sake. Clones, stealth, clones, stealth, Dmg from stealth. What's this? Did Anet even know how Stealth works in other MMOs? Or they slapped Stealth in Gw2 and said "naaah, lets do our own Stealth mode".

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@"EremiteAngel.9765" said:I think it is unfair that Soulbeast is getting all the attention while 3 other classes go unnoticed.I'm not sure exactly what needs changing but seeing that they are sitting above Soulbeasts, then something needs to be toned down about those other classes too.We all know from the other threads what needs to be adjusted on Soulbeasts.Now please share your thoughts on the things that need to be adjusted on these other classes.Thanks ?

http://www.polljunkie.com/poll/pptrem/most-op-wvw-1-vs-1-class-mid-2019/view

2.8Mesmer3.3Engineer3.5Warrior3.6Ranger5.3Revenant5.3Thief6.7Elementalist6.9Guardian7.5Necromancer

Based on this pool, what player play the most are :1) Necro2) Guardian3) elem4) thief5) rev6) Ranger7) Warrior8) engi9) mesmer

Thanks for this very representative state of what play casuals players.(which ins't far from reality if we combine WvW and PvP.)

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I dont know even... Should I report this as a thread that need to be adressed to proper WVW section?Ye, also people struggle with clones in 2019, passed 7 years they are still getting lost in 1 clone and cant find realSoulbeast is omitted?Good rev will wipe the floor with you as well as it like 2-3 times stronger in wvw

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@steki.1478 said:

@"SoV.5139" said:Soulbeasts are a gimmick build with a huge burst that requires minimal APM.

Mirage has a few full roaming builds, which while having a higher skill floor, allow for delivering equally high bursts while even being more unfair in that it can do so while being invulnerable for the period of time it does this.

The downside is the mesmer cant be played by someone with potatoes for hands like the soulbeast can. If it could, there would be multiplicitively more mirages than soulbeasts, rather than just a few more.

And then Anet comes and balances classes based on some statistics. Meanwhile rangers (pve/pvp and since pof in roaming), guards and warrs (all modes) are played by potato players and constantly strong for years, where eles (all modes) and thieves (pvp/wvw) require actual combat and game knowledge so your "average" ele/thief is as skilled as pro ranger/war/guard. Meaning that in order to be a useful ele, you have to play like god, and if you do that, you perform too good - NERF (been a thing in pve since HoT basically). So in order for an average ele to perform as well as average r/g/w, those classes need to be strong by default.

At least they have some standards when it comes to balancing necros because that would be a monstrosity otherwise.

It also doesn't surprise me how holo hasn't been touched since PoF because it dumbed down the whole class below necro levels. And when potatoes play the class it doesn't matter how strong that class actually is, the only thing that matters is how well they perform.

The only thing I don't understand is why mesmer was so OP literally everywhere since HoT (4 whole years at least) and condi mesmer could literally be played blindfolded and still be extremely successful.

Because mesmer is ANet's baby. Its the equivalent of an EQ1 bard. When it ever does appear to be some parity its not because they nerfed it, but because they add so much to other classes that they catch up relatively to be as OP, but in some cases require less skill floor. AKA the gimmick builds.

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@"EremiteAngel.9765" said:I think it is unfair that Soulbeast is getting all the attention while 3 other classes go unnoticed.I'm not sure exactly what needs changing but seeing that they are sitting above Soulbeasts, then something needs to be toned down about those other classes too.We all know from the other threads what needs to be adjusted on Soulbeasts.Now please share your thoughts on the things that need to be adjusted on these other classes.Thanks ?

http://www.polljunkie.com/poll/pptrem/most-op-wvw-1-vs-1-class-mid-2019/view

2.8Mesmer3.3Engineer3.5Warrior3.6Ranger5.3Revenant5.3Thief6.7Elementalist6.9Guardian7.5Necromancer

Hi, first off, a couple of things:

  1. I can assure you that Soulbeast isn't just getting 'all the attention.' With that said, I wouldn't mind asking you why you created this thread in the first place? What do you hope to get out of it? Do you struggle fighting against mesmers? If so, what kind of builds? all of them? Do you hope asking for nerfs to mesmer will somehow indirectly lead to fewer nerfs for soulbeasts? I'm just kinda confused what you are trying to get out of this.

  2. The mesmers in the forums have extensively covered the topic of what changes and renovations need to take place with mesmer in the future. We don't need another one, as many of the issues covered previously still remain unfixed.

  3. I am not entirely sure if mesmer IS the best dueler anymore. How do you know the graph isn't just left over biases? Awhile ago people voted it the most OP class when it it didn't even have a build rated as great or better on metabattle and wasn't common at the top of the leaderboards. In fact, there was lots of objective, rather than subjective, evidence at the time that is WASN'T the most OP class. This just tells us that what people 'think' is the most OP class doesn't always match up to what IS the most OP class. Have there recently been any large 1v1 tournaments that would help clear this up? However, regardless, just for fun, let's assume this is the case and mirage is the best dueler. Ok, so now what? Even if we assume it's the best dueler, we have ample evidence that

A. It is not effective in large scale WvW, which is what really matters in the WvW large scheme of things.B. It is not very effective in structured PvP since it is not common on the leaderboards or in the top ranks. It is also not common in tournaments.C. There HAS to be at least one class that is the best at dueling. That is kinda the definition of 'the best'.

  1. So, NO, we don't need to suggest more changes to mesmer based on your thread/post additional to the ones that have already been suggested by the mesmer community in the past. Many of the people who have suggested changes in the past have 1,000s of hours and years of experience on mesmer and are not just suggesting changes to 'take the devs minds off of soulbeast'. Additionally, many actually precisely specified what the problems were to begin with.
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Regardless of how precisely we identify the issues, and even provide feedback, we have received little of any of the changes desired. My history of change suggestions have always centered on changes engineered to increase counterplay. Also, Mesmer is no different than any other profession, we have weaknesses, and lots of them, but most people do not learn what they are, how to identify them, and how to exploit those weaknesses.

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If anet listen to this guy, they will definitely lose more players everywhere lol

The bring more pve to wvw, and pvp to pve guy xD

EVEN with buffs and nerfs he is doing the same thing.

Oh by the way we do know that he favors zergs, so he doesn't want his zerg classes nerfed as well.

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@"EremiteAngel.9765" said:I think it is unfair that Soulbeast is getting all the attention while 3 other classes go unnoticed.I'm not sure exactly what needs changing but seeing that they are sitting above Soulbeasts, then something needs to be toned down about those other classes too.We all know from the other threads what needs to be adjusted on Soulbeasts.Now please share your thoughts on the things that need to be adjusted on these other classes.Thanks ?

http://www.polljunkie.com/poll/pptrem/most-op-wvw-1-vs-1-class-mid-2019/view

2.8Mesmer3.3Engineer3.5Warrior3.6Ranger5.3Revenant5.3Thief6.7Elementalist6.9Guardian7.5Necromancer

We can thus conclude:

  • The class that is designed to be the best 1v1 class in the game (Mesmer) is indeed considered to be the best 1v1 class in the game by a small number of people.
  • The class that is designed to be the worst 1v1 class in the game (Necro) is indeed considered to be the worst 1v1 class in the game by a small number of people.

I guess we can confirm that the core class design principles are still there.

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Right because mashing buttons is the solution to all your problemsWe have too many weakneses yet you ignore them because you easily killed that engi but not the mesmer thinking the same strategy will work for you.How about try to understand how mesmers play instead of kittening all over the boards on how "OP" we are.

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Soulbeast, Mesmer, engineer and warrior are op, therefore I can conclude that necros need serious nerfs. This will bring all classes into balance. For sure. I mean it. It's true. :trollface:I don't think Mesmer need nerfs, just changes (changes doesn't necessarily equate to nerf or op). Most importantly, people need to roll a Mesmer and play it as their main for a few months. In fact, I advise anyone to do the same for every class or build they feel is op to get a better understanding. It really helps.

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I would love to see if anet nerfs mesmer's one shot / instaburst builds and give it more decent options to use. I would be really delighted to see glamour mesmer, my favourite thing in all gw2, came back to the wvw. But nerfing without giving more options would just be a huge mistake. Mesmer has already too few options and cutting them down without giving something back would kill the profession.

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