why is tanking tiers a thing?

[Sovereign.1093]

besides winning dont matter, why do ppl do it?

context:

knowing relinking will happen this 28, i decided to do some ppt and i noticed enemies from t4 to t2 just hands us structures.

i know we didnt earn them and i know they were really good. because we could not beat them if they tried.

so, as i am rebuilding Slayers, my casual troops are enjoying pips x loot and we did get some precursurs this week in t1 because of the consistent outnumbered buffs.

also i noticed players were really sour when we pushed to t1. but when we fought enemies, it seems relunctantly, they also enjoyed the experience.

god damn, its like i am herding broken players and indoctrinating them that, its ok to play wvw. if they are many, avoid them, if they are our numbers, we can fight them. if we cant beat them, let them take the structures, and we'll back cap. and worse comes to worse, there's always a sentry to take. =p

i know the great players left. and casuals like me are still here. so, why that perspective? why tank?

do people only want to boost their ego by fighting weak groups? (my group is weak). or just want to farm loot?

of course all these in the context of wvw dont matter. but i just wonder, why so many broken perception and broken players (depresed, downers, and dont want to get good)

[Dawdler.8521]

@"Sovereign.1093" said:do people only want to boost their ego by fighting weak groups? (my group is weak). or just want to farm loot?Err... yes?

Said it before, saying it again: When people loudly proclaim "we just want fights!" what they really mean is "we just want to win!". And if you argue that after they win, well the winners always control the narrative. And they will always say they just wanted the fight.

[HazyDaisy.4107]

Besides, if winning "doesn't matter", why should losing?

[Sovereign.1093]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"Sovereign.1093" said:do people only want to boost their ego by fighting weak groups? (my group is weak). or just want to farm loot?Err... yes?

Said it before, saying it again: When people loudly proclaim "we just want fights!" what they

really

mean is "we just want to win!". And if you argue that after they win, well the winners always control the narrative. And they will always say they just wanted the fight.

ah... so, i guess it's because ego stroking. :/ we need gvgs man. taking on puglings is just to easy. these guilds can beat each other. it would simply be awesome.

[Sovereign.1093]

@"HazyDaisy.4107" said:Besides, if winning "doesn't matter", why should losing?

that's the highlight of my point. what causes people to do it?

[steki.1478]

Tank before relink by not playing > population drops > you get beefier link.

In other situations I mostly see it as a way to open a server that's clearly underpopulated (but somehow full) and avoid 24/7 ppt fest in t1.

Low tiers don't necessarily have worse players.

Regarding your context: some people just couldn't care less about ppt before relinks, especially in last week when your performance means nothing due to glicko organized matchups after relink.

[acdspydar.8920]

You should gain access to a new pip chest according to your server tier.

Can only be gained if you moved to that tier with the server (example if you transferred to T1 Server from T2, T3, T4, of T5 (EU Only) for T1 chest you're disqualified from ever getting it.)

It might deter a few ppl from trying to tank, but server stacking would be a huge problem. I don't think the game mode can ever be fixed as is. Restructuring is definitely far off due to the amount that has to be taken into consideration, and of course, there are the 1000s who will say "no pls I dun like chaaaange QQ" after it drops.

[Sovereign.1093]

@steki.1478 said:Tank before relink by not playing > population drops > you get beefier link.

In other situations I mostly see it as a way to open a server that's clearly underpopulated (but somehow full) and avoid 24/7 ppt fest in t1.

Low tiers don't necessarily have worse players.

Regarding your context: some people just couldn't care less about ppt before relinks, especially in last week when your performance means nothing due to glicko organized matchups after relink.

no no, i mean why people whine :/> @"acdspydar.8920" said:

You should gain access to a new pip chest according to your server tier.

Can only be gained if you moved to that tier with the server (example if you transferred to T1 Server from T2, T3, T4, of T5 (EU Only) for T1 chest you're disqualified from ever getting it.)

It might deter a few ppl from trying to tank, but server stacking would be a huge problem. I don't think the game mode can ever be fixed as is. Restructuring is definitely far off due to the amount that has to be taken into consideration, and of course, there are the 1000s who will say "no pls I dun like chaaaange QQ" after it drops.

it's always easy to judge in hindsight. :P

[Warkind.6745]

Yeeep. Tanking is a concerted, server-wide movement with the end goal of stomping noobs and feeling good about it.

[acdspydar.8920]

@Warkind.6745 said:Yeeep. Tanking is a concerted, server-wide movement with the end goal of stomping noobs and feeling good about it.

Sums it up very effectively

[Sovereign.1093]

i guess thats it. @.@ get rid of servers and queue up for some random interserver 3 way. kekeke.

wow got it right via their battle grounds.

on that note, i do hope peopledont tank and just play.

...

would help to if every 2 hours the border resets like eotm. =p

no more 5 minute ri. just points accumulate at the end of the 2nd hour.

[CrimsonNeon.6712]

In T1, you don't get much match up variation at all.Besides, it can help determine whether you get stuck with the same population and possibly gain a worse or better link.

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:snip

Nothing in a WvW Tier has anything to do with skill, or at least not a lot.

It has to do with coverage and population availability and around the clock numbers.

Higher tiers have more blob fights, lower tieres have more static guild versus guild fights (at least on EU). The decision to drop or rise a tier can also depend on what fights are desired. WvW guilds who run private statics often favor certain servers with similar guilds to fight. Crushing a 50-70 people public blob with 30 people is fun, but gets old eventually.

What Guilds are even in the Lower Tiers, when it's mostly National and dead servers below T2, that are not on a summer break?

@Sovereign.1093 said:i guess thats it. @.@ get rid of servers and queue up for some random interserver 3 way. kekeke.

wow got it right via their battle grounds.

on that note, i do hope peopledont tank and just play.

Most people play as a guild or open tag when they they have the time, The rest tryhards, especially when it comes to T1, when winning doesn't even matter, but it also depends on the link too.

[Grim West.3194]

In NA, Tanking used to be used by the BlackGate players to fool the ANET devs into opening up the server and allow even more players in to their already overstacked server.

It worked. ANET was fooled every single time and opened BG up.

Now BG is so overstacked that nobody has a chance against their massive zergs. And ANET will not allow anyone other than BG to have a massive overstack. WvW is so poorly designed that zerg size and coverage are the only tactics that matter. So people have to resort to tanking to get away from BG and out of T1, just so they can get somewhat even fights.

It looks like BG may be trying to fool ANET again. I expect ANET will take the bait (they always do) and open BG up, if they haven't already.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Sovereign.1093 said:snip

Nothing in a WvW Tier has anything to do with skill, or at least not a lot.

It has to do with coverage and population availability and around the clock numbers.

Higher tiers have more blob fights, lower tieres have more static guild versus guild fights (at least on EU). The decision to drop or rise a tier can also depend on what fights are desired. WvW guilds who run private statics often favor certain servers with similar guilds to fight. Crushing a 50-70 people public blob with 30 people is fun, but gets old eventually.

Then you have public commanders who enjoy running public blobs. If one of them decides to not log or skip a matchup, your server will tank, especially if it was one of the more active or know commanders who draws people.

[TheBravery.9615]

servers tank because they suck at fights

[subversiontwo.7501]

You'd think there's a sale in a french delicacy store with all these salty leeches.

Scoring is broken, nightcapping and PvP-aversive PPT is a thing.

Servers dominated by fight guilds tend to tank to match up with servers with fight guilds.

Servers dominated by GvG guilds tend to tank to match up with servers with GvG guilds.

Or they transfer around to achieve the same thing.

It's pretty simple.

[Chaba.5410]

@Cyninja.2954 said:Higher tiers have more blob fights, lower tieres have more static guild versus guild fights (at least on EU). The decision to drop or rise a tier can also depend on what fights are desired. WvW guilds who run private statics often favor certain servers with similar guilds to fight. Crushing a 50-70 people public blob with 30 people is fun, but gets old eventually.

Then you have public commanders who enjoy running public blobs. If one of them decides to not log or skip a matchup, your server will tank, especially if it was one of the more active or know commanders who draws people.

This sums up WvW in NA too, although you didn't mention the small groups of PPTers that enjoy taking structures which larger groups don't want to spend their time chasing down. If you have no pug tag one week because the guy got real life going on, it can induce tanking. The way some people here talk, they expect everyone to be playing 100% of the time or something.

[Kaiser.9873]

Because it's no fun to fight 80 man map queues with 25.Because T1 is pure PPT-stress unless you are BG.Because T2 and below are far more fun.Because you don't want to Voltron with another group that may play far differently than you in order to fight said map queue.Because taking structures and then sitting in them defending for hours on end is terrible gameplay.Because guarding camps with 3-5 on ballistas, golems, and ACs is horrid.

[HazyDaisy.4107]

If match making were a thing and there were a few...we'll call them buddy servers, that have historically meshed well together when these alleged manipulated matches were set in motion, then maybe if I were a wide-eyed roamer (not that's that's a thing), who happened to notice this alleged buddy match making scheme in the past, maybe, I as a wide-eyed roamer (once again not a thing) might dedicate my weekend hours to instigating these alleged buddy servers into double teaming my server, it's structures and repeadily violating my body with their non existent blobs and co-conspiring havocs in a bid to lower my k/d and boost theirs.

Of course, this is all theory and a bit of daydreaming, because everyone knows roamers don't have any effect on score, matches aren't pre-decided and guilds don't care enough to put alts on competing servers to manipulate said matches.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

Not everyone plays WvW for the same reasons. Not everyone tanks for the same reason.

Generally, being in NA/T1 means fighting a certain perennial T1 world and historically that's been fun maybe 8-12 weeks per year, if that. Consequently, people who have been there/done that would just as soon do something else, whether it's even fights or roflstomps.

Tiers have never much reflected overall skill. As @Cyninja.2954 reminds us: coverage matters more. Further, individual commanders and serious GvG-style guilds can affect the outcome by their presence/absence. With the introduction of one up|one down, tiers have no connection to anything other than last week's match.

So some are going to tank because they are hoping to have more fun against the servers 'below' rather than the ones who played 'above' last week. That could be because they think the fights will be trivial or it could be because they think there will be fighting (instead of running or castling or being outnumbered on all maps).

As long as the mode has rewards, there will be people who adjust their gaming to max those rewards, by bandwagoning or tier tanking or whatever. And until ANet finds a way to get consistently even matches, people will try to game the matchups so that the world they are on has some sort of advantage.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

I wonder what wvw would look like if the only scoring mechanism was ppk from the beginning.

[subversiontwo.7501]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:I wonder what wvw would look like if the only scoring mechanism was ppk from the beginning.It would probably be long extinct because the charm of the mode is the diversity. Still, diversity should come with some form of tolerable balance.

[Sovereign.1093]

there are simply good blobs and guilds out there, i wish anet had a system in place to set it up where what we demand can happen. but i do wonder, being a businessman myself, how it should be done, and how much will it cost.

[Kassablanca.5821]

Problem is the score system since fighting wont help u win the matchup, its the ppl who ppt while u are sleeping and at work that makes the diff. Like I said just copy doac relic system problem solved.

[neven.3785]

For NA, it's hard to judge who is tanking vs not tanking aside from people avoiding tier 1 as mentioned previously. Tier 2 and 3, you have a mix of ppk based servers trying to maintain position, and ppt servers going for the win. Like when nsp matches against 2 ppk servers they will always win unless they are dealing with serious coverage imbalance (ie them against a t1 contender). It's not either server tanking who face them, it's the other servers not willing to match their commitment to points per tick. Doing so will kill activity among the fight groups as their players will be in empty objectives or trying to chase greater numbers than them with no interest to fight through 15 supply traps. For cd/mag, anything outside of na prime is hard to find people out of EBG so it's a huge handicap to overcome when teams want to push them down.