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What's holding you back of changing how downed state works ?


Caedmon.6798

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@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:First off, your 34 upvotes are near meaningless. You gave no ability for people to contradict you or disagree. That's like making a poll with only YES as an answer. Obviously people who agree will upvote your comment, what exactly are people who disagree going to do? Exactly, nothing.

Second, most forum useres migrate to threads they find interesting to them. People who have no issue with downed state works might not even look at your thread or just skim through it. Forums have a tendacy to amplify any opinion or topic in one of two directions (eihter draw a lot of positiv feedback or the exact opposite).

Finally, no downed state week clearly shows what the issues of no downed state are: everybody goes full burst and just tries to pick off as many players as possible. The ttk in this game is designed with downed state in mind. If you were to remove the downed state, expect severe rebalance in survivability. That in turn would absolutely kill roaming.

That happens when you can't read. For the third time,i Do not ask for the removal of downed state and here you are.

Except that I disagree with the idea that roaming needs anything given.

I was addressing your constant bringing up your 34 up votes as argument while at the same time giving one of the main reasons as to why and how downed state is balanced and implemented. I'll try to be clearer in the future since you seem to have a hard time extrapolating relevant information.

I have to bring that up because clearly people have have reading issues. I even gave examples as how to change it yet people keep yelling "I want downed state to stay".

"That can be the ress speed,hp% in downed state,not being able to get up 4x in one minute etc. There are multiple ways to adress this"

Something i also need to keep repeating.

All of which I am fully aware of. Have you also addressed the vastly reduced ttk compared to vanilla?

@Cyninja.2954 said:First off, your 34 upvotes are near meaningless. You gave no ability for people to contradict you or disagree. That's like making a poll with only YES as an answer. Obviously people who agree will upvote your comment, what exactly are people who disagree going to do? Exactly, nothing.

Second, most forum useres migrate to threads they find interesting to them. People who have no issue with downed state works might not even look at your thread or just skim through it. Forums have a tendacy to amplify any opinion or topic in one of two directions (eihter draw a lot of positiv feedback or the exact opposite).

Finally, no downed state week clearly shows what the issues of no downed state are: everybody goes full burst and just tries to pick off as many players as possible. The ttk in this game is designed with downed state in mind. If you were to remove the downed state, expect severe rebalance in survivability. That in turn would absolutely kill roaming.

What are people going to do that disagree ? I think thats pretty clear isnt it ?

Ttk depends on who you fight aswell. You can burst one down instant and you can tickle an scrapper or an fb for 5 minutes straight untill he dies out of laughter or boredom.

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@Caedmon.6798 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:First off, your 34 upvotes are near meaningless. You gave no ability for people to contradict you or disagree. That's like making a poll with only YES as an answer. Obviously people who agree will upvote your comment, what exactly are people who disagree going to do? Exactly, nothing.

Second, most forum useres migrate to threads they find interesting to them. People who have no issue with downed state works might not even look at your thread or just skim through it. Forums have a tendacy to amplify any opinion or topic in one of two directions (eihter draw a lot of positiv feedback or the exact opposite).

Finally, no downed state week clearly shows what the issues of no downed state are: everybody goes full burst and just tries to pick off as many players as possible. The ttk in this game is designed with downed state in mind. If you were to remove the downed state, expect severe rebalance in survivability. That in turn would absolutely kill roaming.

That happens when you can't read. For the third time,i Do not ask for the removal of downed state and here you are.

Except that I disagree with the idea that roaming needs anything given.

I was addressing your constant bringing up your 34 up votes as argument while at the same time giving one of the main reasons as to why and how downed state is balanced and implemented. I'll try to be clearer in the future since you seem to have a hard time extrapolating relevant information.

I have to bring that up because clearly people have have reading issues. I even gave examples as how to change it yet people keep yelling "I want downed state to stay".

"That can be the ress speed,hp% in downed state,not being able to get up 4x in one minute etc. There are multiple ways to adress this"

Something i also need to keep repeating.

All of which I am fully aware of. Have you also addressed the vastly reduced ttk compared to vanilla?

@Cyninja.2954 said:First off, your 34 upvotes are near meaningless. You gave no ability for people to contradict you or disagree. That's like making a poll with only YES as an answer. Obviously people who agree will upvote your comment, what exactly are people who disagree going to do? Exactly, nothing.

Second, most forum useres migrate to threads they find interesting to them. People who have no issue with downed state works might not even look at your thread or just skim through it. Forums have a tendacy to amplify any opinion or topic in one of two directions (eihter draw a lot of positiv feedback or the exact opposite).

Finally, no downed state week clearly shows what the issues of no downed state are: everybody goes full burst and just tries to pick off as many players as possible. The ttk in this game is designed with downed state in mind. If you were to remove the downed state, expect severe rebalance in survivability. That in turn would absolutely kill roaming.

What are people going to do that disagree ? I think thats pretty clear isnt it ?
  • So given ttk is a lot lower since vanilla.
  • Given that no downed state week clearly shows that there are severe issues with this game mode when downed state is temoprarily removed.
  • Given that there is builds and abilities directly added into the game by Arenanet to get people faster out of downed state.

You can't connect the dots?

Here let me help:Arenanet use downed state to balance and add a tactical element to the main design and gameplay component in WvW: huge group fights. They have added abilities and runes to specifically allow downed state management. They added a no downed state week to test how the game would work without downed state but have not expanded on that concept. I'm not sure how much clearer their design around downed state can be.

EDIT: don't gimme that bs. Overall ttk is way down from vanilla. If you disagree with that, fine, I don't care. But expect people to put up resistance who do agree that ttk in WvW is way down (same as spvp by the way).

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@Caedmon.6798 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:its been nerfed over the years. ppl just need to get good.

Thats a blatant lie. Downed state has only gotten worse with the one touch res from FB's for instance.

before if you kill a downy, you rally, just by tagging. it's harder now. sure fb's can do that, but so can warriors/necros/and scrappers. but tis not as easy as vanila

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@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:First off, your 34 upvotes are near meaningless. You gave no ability for people to contradict you or disagree. That's like making a poll with only YES as an answer. Obviously people who agree will upvote your comment, what exactly are people who disagree going to do? Exactly, nothing.

Second, most forum useres migrate to threads they find interesting to them. People who have no issue with downed state works might not even look at your thread or just skim through it. Forums have a tendacy to amplify any opinion or topic in one of two directions (eihter draw a lot of positiv feedback or the exact opposite).

Finally, no downed state week clearly shows what the issues of no downed state are: everybody goes full burst and just tries to pick off as many players as possible. The ttk in this game is designed with downed state in mind. If you were to remove the downed state, expect severe rebalance in survivability. That in turn would absolutely kill roaming.

That happens when you can't read. For the third time,i Do not ask for the removal of downed state and here you are.

Except that I disagree with the idea that roaming needs anything given.

I was addressing your constant bringing up your 34 up votes as argument while at the same time giving one of the main reasons as to why and how downed state is balanced and implemented. I'll try to be clearer in the future since you seem to have a hard time extrapolating relevant information.

I have to bring that up because clearly people have have reading issues. I even gave examples as how to change it yet people keep yelling "I want downed state to stay".

"That can be the ress speed,hp% in downed state,not being able to get up 4x in one minute etc. There are multiple ways to adress this"

Something i also need to keep repeating.

All of which I am fully aware of. Have you also addressed the vastly reduced ttk compared to vanilla?

@Cyninja.2954 said:First off, your 34 upvotes are near meaningless. You gave no ability for people to contradict you or disagree. That's like making a poll with only YES as an answer. Obviously people who agree will upvote your comment, what exactly are people who disagree going to do? Exactly, nothing.

Second, most forum useres migrate to threads they find interesting to them. People who have no issue with downed state works might not even look at your thread or just skim through it. Forums have a tendacy to amplify any opinion or topic in one of two directions (eihter draw a lot of positiv feedback or the exact opposite).

Finally, no downed state week clearly shows what the issues of no downed state are: everybody goes full burst and just tries to pick off as many players as possible. The ttk in this game is designed with downed state in mind. If you were to remove the downed state, expect severe rebalance in survivability. That in turn would absolutely kill roaming.

What are people going to do that disagree ? I think thats pretty clear isnt it ?
  • So given ttk is a lot lower since vanilla.
  • Given that no downed state week clearly shows that there are severe issues with this game mode when downed state is temoprarily removed.
  • Given that there is builds and abilities directly added into the game by Arenanet to get people faster out of downed state.

You can't connect the dots?

Here let me help:Arenanet use downed state to balance and add a tactical element to the main design and gameplay component in WvW: huge group fights. They have added abilities and runes to specifically allow downed state management. They added a no downed state week to test how the game would work without downed state but have not expanded on that concept. I'm not sure how much clearer their design around downed state can be.

I know downed state has its place . As i would never make a post in the spvp forum to change how downed state works,because it Works in there as it should. WvW is another beast where "roamers" are usually the ones having to deal with this crutch. Changing to how downed state works in wvw would still leave the base concept intact,You go down and you can get a res. The changes proposed in the other thread and the one i mentioned here would only make it more fair. As able to go down 4x in one minute is something ive always thought as a broken mechanic carrying much too hard and its so damn forgiving.Let me spell it out once more !

Lower the base hp in downed stateAdd quickness back to finishingRemove the ability to go down 4x in a minute

Those are 3 changes that would keep the base mechanic intact but simply making it a bit more fair.

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I have been very vocal about removing DS. It's a carry mechanic that further favors the larger group that already has a numbers advantage.

However, some simple changes would still be welcome to help negate this without total removal.

For starters, why don't we have something more like GW1? rezzing in GW2 is just spam F in WvW. Where GW1 had skills and CD's linked to them to rez someone. So, this makes it an active choice, do you want to carry a skill to get team members up, or do you carry some other utility? Also being a skill, it will have a CD, so it can't be spammed on someone over and over again, it will have a cast time and can still be interrupted. This way it at least requires some skill and thought into it's use.

Downed state health is to high, it needs to be lowered, and natural health loss needs to tick higher. I would also like to see self revive removed. And getting downed, you can be revived with a skill or rally once, after that, if you go down again without having gotten out of combat, you die.

Other things to note, this would be WvW only, PvE doesn't need a change, nor does PvP. PvP is a forced even numbered matchup so DS does not favor one team over another.

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@Caedmon.6798 said:

@"Justine.6351" said:Just like "remove desert bl" type threads, its apparently the minority. This is only confirmed with every (obviously biased) poll as well.

So yeah, believe harder I guess?

Im not sure what youre getting at. I linked the page to my previous post with 4 pages where i got 34 upvotes,maybe read through that.Comparing this to "remove desert bl" doesnt make sense in the slighest bit,im not asking for the removal of anything. Im asking for a change. Roamers are obviously the minority,thats no guess,i think i was clear about that without having to spell it out.

34 upvotes... thousands upon thousands of players.That alone reinforces his minority comment.

It was an example that certain people do agree with having downed state nerfed in a way as i mentioned sadly its the majority being carried thus defending it.

I don't mind if it gets nerfed or not.

I loved the rally mechanic when I first saw it in borderlands and then here. Its one of the unique things that I love about both games.

So if it gets nerfed or removed, its one more thing to make this game more like every other game.

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@Caedmon.6798 said:

@"Justine.6351" said:Just like "remove desert bl" type threads, its apparently the minority. This is only confirmed with every (obviously biased) poll as well.

So yeah, believe harder I guess?

Im not sure what youre getting at. I linked the page to my previous post with 4 pages where i got 34 upvotes,maybe read through that.Comparing this to "remove desert bl" doesnt make sense in the slighest bit,im not asking for the removal of anything. Im asking for a change. Roamers are obviously the minority,thats no guess,i think i was clear about that without having to spell it out.

People who complain are loudest. We had tons and tons of threads asking for more difficult PVE open world content. HoT came out, and suddenly we had a thread that spanned like a hundred pages, people complaining that GW 2 is no longer for casuals. The outcry over the difficulty of HoT after the fact, after months, even years of loud people demanding harder content, because people who are satisfied are just playing the game. your 34 upvotes out of hundreds of thousands of players doesn't make a dent.

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@"Caedmon.6798" said:I know it's all about blob play and everything being done is evolving around that concept but downed state is no issue there anyway

And that's the problem with these forums. We have people like the OP, a proclaimed roamer, talking about how downed state "is no issue" for zergs, but feels like they know enough to propose sweeping changes.

Downed state "is no issue" for zergs? The only person who says this is someone who has either never played in a zerg, or doesn't understand the mechanics of how zergs work - either way, hardly someone informed enough on the game to have credibility on changing game mechanics

Downed state_ does _hold issues for zergs: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rally :rolleyes:

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@Doug.4930 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:Can’t believe some are having this much of a tough time with the current downed mechanics...

What can we say, some of us like taking fights where the numbers are not in our favour. Something downstate apologists wouldn't really understand.

Downed state benefits any size group, and of course it’s tougher when solo against more than 1... As it should be because this is an unpredictable “open world” RvR mode not a 1v1 designed mode...

And I roam most of the time in wvw, and don’t see what the hubbub is all about... Sometimes you win, sometimes you don’t. Sometimes you get the stomp or kill, sometimes you don’t. And that’s how it goes, so we can deal with it or not.

There were plenty of times I didn’t get the kill, but I didn’t run to the forums complaining and asking to change game mechanics because I couldn’t handle it.

Edit- And seriously, what do some want next? The devs to change the mechanics in SPvP so you can have the possibility to win a match 1v5?

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Anet could just tweak downstate for WvW as events, and that would allow them to gather data. After going through various variations of it, eg: no rally week, high penalty week (where being downed twice in 30 seconds is instant death), they would have enough data and decide what to do with downstate.

So, I would rephrase the OP to simply ask "what's holding Anet from doing WvW events involving downstate mechanic changes?"

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@Swagger.1459 said:The devs have a thousand more important things to do than spend time and resources working on something that doesn’t need changing or “fixing”. Especially a change to appease the few players who can’t handle not getting a kill.

Which is the same thing those who just want to blob have always said, as DS in its current form supports larger zerging and more spam, as DS favors the larger group rather than skill. If it didn't favor the larger group, what is the issue with changing it? Because any changes, even removal of DS as a whole, would still never favor roamers, as they would still be out numbered and still at a disadvantage. The ONLY thing it would change would be how much pay off there is for skilled players vs just balling up.

The same people you see not wanting DS removed as the same ones who claimed myself and others were wrong, that skilled play would not do better in a no DS WvW, they made claims it would make skilled play even harder and would favor the larger group even more.....and then anet did a no DS event and we had actual proof that was not the case and that we were indeed right and that it favored skill. I saw skill guild come back that I had not seen in forever fighting off zergs double their size, something I had not seen in forever. And yet, we still have people, like yourself, sticking your fingers in your ears acting like that is not the case and that DS mechanics don't really matter....Well, if they don't really matter, whats the issue with removing them?

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@"Caedmon.6798" said:After all the people making threads about downed state,and ive made several myself aswell usually with good responses and a few not being so positive, but the majority did. And you finally realize about a year back that downed state do is an issue and introducing "No downed state week" to keep the few happy. What about actually adressing issues related to this carrying factor from which you know about already ? I know it's all about blob play and everything being done is evolving around that concept but downed state is no issue there anyway so a nerf to it wouldn't matter in that scenario. Give something to roamers already, which you've been neglecting for far too long while adding mechanics to make it harder for them. It's time to take off the extra 2 wheels because you already added 4 when you introduced mounts.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/54785/downed-state-nerf-it/p1

Just remove the 20% rez of miIt can heal 15-20k now and is basicly rez freeThe amount of people i insta rezzed with it

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Considering all the game mechanics associated to down state wouldn't mind trying some other combos. For example if we are saying its an advantage to larger numbers and that's something people would like to see balanced than maybe there is no self-reviving and you can only be revived up by others. That still leaves advantage to the larger side, so you need to add a price to that. So maybe it's no self-reviving and no rezzing of the dead. Dead have to release and come back. So if the larger side has people dropped by a smaller force they have to ask themselves, do I try and revive the downed player because if they die/are defeated then I have one less person with the current group that would have to make their own way back. If anything we are in a good spot to try that combination since we have mounts and we still have calls to spread out the fight and roamers are still saying more targets. Maybe it time to try some lemonade. Larger force will always have an advantage, and that's not unreasonable, but it also gives smaller groups more reason to attempt attacking larger ones if they know they forced at least some of the other side to have to respawn and run back versus knowing the larger side will just rez all their dead and be back on their way.

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@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:First off, your 34 upvotes are near meaningless. You gave no ability for people to contradict you or disagree. That's like making a poll with only YES as an answer. Obviously people who agree will upvote your comment, what exactly are people who disagree going to do? Exactly, nothing.

Second, most forum useres migrate to threads they find interesting to them. People who have no issue with downed state works might not even look at your thread or just skim through it. Forums have a tendacy to amplify any opinion or topic in one of two directions (eihter draw a lot of positiv feedback or the exact opposite).

Finally, no downed state week clearly shows what the issues of no downed state are: everybody goes full burst and just tries to pick off as many players as possible. The ttk in this game is designed with downed state in mind. If you were to remove the downed state, expect severe rebalance in survivability. That in turn would absolutely kill roaming.

That happens when you can't read. For the third time,i Do not ask for the removal of downed state and here you are.

Except that I disagree with the idea that roaming needs anything given.

I was addressing your constant bringing up your 34 up votes as argument while at the same time giving one of the main reasons as to why and how downed state is balanced and implemented. I'll try to be clearer in the future since you seem to have a hard time extrapolating relevant information.

I have to bring that up because clearly people have have reading issues. I even gave examples as how to change it yet people keep yelling "I want downed state to stay".

"That can be the ress speed,hp% in downed state,not being able to get up 4x in one minute etc. There are multiple ways to adress this"

Something i also need to keep repeating.

All of which I am fully aware of. Have you also addressed the vastly reduced ttk compared to vanilla?

@Cyninja.2954 said:First off, your 34 upvotes are near meaningless. You gave no ability for people to contradict you or disagree. That's like making a poll with only YES as an answer. Obviously people who agree will upvote your comment, what exactly are people who disagree going to do? Exactly, nothing.

Second, most forum useres migrate to threads they find interesting to them. People who have no issue with downed state works might not even look at your thread or just skim through it. Forums have a tendacy to amplify any opinion or topic in one of two directions (eihter draw a lot of positiv feedback or the exact opposite).

Finally, no downed state week clearly shows what the issues of no downed state are: everybody goes full burst and just tries to pick off as many players as possible. The ttk in this game is designed with downed state in mind. If you were to remove the downed state, expect severe rebalance in survivability. That in turn would absolutely kill roaming.

What are people going to do that disagree ? I think thats pretty clear isnt it ?
  • So given ttk is a lot lower since vanilla.
  • Given that no downed state week clearly shows that there are severe issues with this game mode when downed state is temoprarily removed.
  • Given that there is builds and abilities directly added into the game by Arenanet to get people faster out of downed state.

You can't connect the dots?

Here let me help:Arenanet use downed state to balance and add a tactical element to the main design and gameplay component in WvW: huge group fights. They have added abilities and runes to specifically allow downed state management. They added a no downed state week to test how the game would work without downed state but have not expanded on that concept. I'm not sure how much clearer their design around downed state can be.

EDIT: don't gimme that bs. Overall ttk is way down from vanilla. If you disagree with that, fine, I don't care. But expect people to put up resistance who do agree that ttk in WvW is way down (same as spvp by the way).

It's comical how patronising you are, while unironically promoting downstate as a solution to the powercreep problem, people discuss since the April 2014 Feature Pack, instead of adressing the underlying problems. Insta revives as answer to 7k autoattacks is infact the way that led us here.

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@schloumou.3982 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:First off, your 34 upvotes are near meaningless. You gave no ability for people to contradict you or disagree. That's like making a poll with only YES as an answer. Obviously people who agree will upvote your comment, what exactly are people who disagree going to do? Exactly, nothing.

Second, most forum useres migrate to threads they find interesting to them. People who have no issue with downed state works might not even look at your thread or just skim through it. Forums have a tendacy to amplify any opinion or topic in one of two directions (eihter draw a lot of positiv feedback or the exact opposite).

Finally, no downed state week clearly shows what the issues of no downed state are: everybody goes full burst and just tries to pick off as many players as possible. The ttk in this game is designed with downed state in mind. If you were to remove the downed state, expect severe rebalance in survivability. That in turn would absolutely kill roaming.

That happens when you can't read. For the third time,i Do not ask for the removal of downed state and here you are.

Except that I disagree with the idea that roaming needs anything given.

I was addressing your constant bringing up your 34 up votes as argument while at the same time giving one of the main reasons as to why and how downed state is balanced and implemented. I'll try to be clearer in the future since you seem to have a hard time extrapolating relevant information.

I have to bring that up because clearly people have have reading issues. I even gave examples as how to change it yet people keep yelling "I want downed state to stay".

"That can be the ress speed,hp% in downed state,not being able to get up 4x in one minute etc. There are multiple ways to adress this"

Something i also need to keep repeating.

All of which I am fully aware of. Have you also addressed the vastly reduced ttk compared to vanilla?

@Cyninja.2954 said:First off, your 34 upvotes are near meaningless. You gave no ability for people to contradict you or disagree. That's like making a poll with only YES as an answer. Obviously people who agree will upvote your comment, what exactly are people who disagree going to do? Exactly, nothing.

Second, most forum useres migrate to threads they find interesting to them. People who have no issue with downed state works might not even look at your thread or just skim through it. Forums have a tendacy to amplify any opinion or topic in one of two directions (eihter draw a lot of positiv feedback or the exact opposite).

Finally, no downed state week clearly shows what the issues of no downed state are: everybody goes full burst and just tries to pick off as many players as possible. The ttk in this game is designed with downed state in mind. If you were to remove the downed state, expect severe rebalance in survivability. That in turn would absolutely kill roaming.

What are people going to do that disagree ? I think thats pretty clear isnt it ?
  • So given ttk is a lot lower since vanilla.
  • Given that no downed state week clearly shows that there are severe issues with this game mode when downed state is temoprarily removed.
  • Given that there is builds and abilities directly added into the game by Arenanet to get people faster out of downed state.

You can't connect the dots?

Here let me help:Arenanet use downed state to balance and add a tactical element to the main design and gameplay component in WvW: huge group fights. They have added abilities and runes to specifically allow downed state management. They added a no downed state week to test how the game would work without downed state but have not expanded on that concept. I'm not sure how much clearer their design around downed state can be.

EDIT: don't gimme that bs. Overall ttk is way down from vanilla. If you disagree with that, fine, I don't care. But expect people to put up resistance who do agree that ttk in WvW is way down (same as spvp by the way).

It's comical how patronising you are, while unironically promoting downstate as a solution to the powercreep problem, people discuss since the April 2014 Feature Pack, instead of adressing the underlying problems. Insta revives as answer to 7k autoattacks is infact the way that led us here.

When did I promote the power creep? That's you reading in something which I did not state.

I do not agree with changing the downed state given the power creep though.

Those two things are not the same.

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@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:First off, your 34 upvotes are near meaningless. You gave no ability for people to contradict you or disagree. That's like making a poll with only YES as an answer. Obviously people who agree will upvote your comment, what exactly are people who disagree going to do? Exactly, nothing.

Second, most forum useres migrate to threads they find interesting to them. People who have no issue with downed state works might not even look at your thread or just skim through it. Forums have a tendacy to amplify any opinion or topic in one of two directions (eihter draw a lot of positiv feedback or the exact opposite).

Finally, no downed state week clearly shows what the issues of no downed state are: everybody goes full burst and just tries to pick off as many players as possible. The ttk in this game is designed with downed state in mind. If you were to remove the downed state, expect severe rebalance in survivability. That in turn would absolutely kill roaming.

That happens when you can't read. For the third time,i Do not ask for the removal of downed state and here you are.

Except that I disagree with the idea that roaming needs anything given.

I was addressing your constant bringing up your 34 up votes as argument while at the same time giving one of the main reasons as to why and how downed state is balanced and implemented. I'll try to be clearer in the future since you seem to have a hard time extrapolating relevant information.

I have to bring that up because clearly people have have reading issues. I even gave examples as how to change it yet people keep yelling "I want downed state to stay".

"That can be the ress speed,hp% in downed state,not being able to get up 4x in one minute etc. There are multiple ways to adress this"

Something i also need to keep repeating.

All of which I am fully aware of. Have you also addressed the vastly reduced ttk compared to vanilla?

@Cyninja.2954 said:First off, your 34 upvotes are near meaningless. You gave no ability for people to contradict you or disagree. That's like making a poll with only YES as an answer. Obviously people who agree will upvote your comment, what exactly are people who disagree going to do? Exactly, nothing.

Second, most forum useres migrate to threads they find interesting to them. People who have no issue with downed state works might not even look at your thread or just skim through it. Forums have a tendacy to amplify any opinion or topic in one of two directions (eihter draw a lot of positiv feedback or the exact opposite).

Finally, no downed state week clearly shows what the issues of no downed state are: everybody goes full burst and just tries to pick off as many players as possible. The ttk in this game is designed with downed state in mind. If you were to remove the downed state, expect severe rebalance in survivability. That in turn would absolutely kill roaming.

What are people going to do that disagree ? I think thats pretty clear isnt it ?
  • So given ttk is a lot lower since vanilla.
  • Given that no downed state week clearly shows that there are severe issues with this game mode when downed state is temoprarily removed.
  • Given that there is builds and abilities directly added into the game by Arenanet to get people faster out of downed state.

You can't connect the dots?

Here let me help:Arenanet use downed state to balance and add a tactical element to the main design and gameplay component in WvW: huge group fights. They have added abilities and runes to specifically allow downed state management. They added a no downed state week to test how the game would work without downed state but have not expanded on that concept. I'm not sure how much clearer their design around downed state can be.

EDIT: don't gimme that bs. Overall ttk is way down from vanilla. If you disagree with that, fine, I don't care. But expect people to put up resistance who do agree that ttk in WvW is way down (same as spvp by the way).

It's comical how patronising you are, while unironically promoting downstate as a solution to the powercreep problem, people discuss since the April 2014 Feature Pack, instead of adressing the underlying problems. Insta revives as answer to 7k autoattacks is infact the way that led us here.

When did I promote the power creep? That's you reading in something which I did not state.

I do not agree with changing the downed state given the power creep though.

Those two things are not the same.

I think they actually are, since downed state in his current environment is part of the creep.

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@schloumou.3982 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:First off, your 34 upvotes are near meaningless. You gave no ability for people to contradict you or disagree. That's like making a poll with only YES as an answer. Obviously people who agree will upvote your comment, what exactly are people who disagree going to do? Exactly, nothing.

Second, most forum useres migrate to threads they find interesting to them. People who have no issue with downed state works might not even look at your thread or just skim through it. Forums have a tendacy to amplify any opinion or topic in one of two directions (eihter draw a lot of positiv feedback or the exact opposite).

Finally, no downed state week clearly shows what the issues of no downed state are: everybody goes full burst and just tries to pick off as many players as possible. The ttk in this game is designed with downed state in mind. If you were to remove the downed state, expect severe rebalance in survivability. That in turn would absolutely kill roaming.

That happens when you can't read. For the third time,i Do not ask for the removal of downed state and here you are.

Except that I disagree with the idea that roaming needs anything given.

I was addressing your constant bringing up your 34 up votes as argument while at the same time giving one of the main reasons as to why and how downed state is balanced and implemented. I'll try to be clearer in the future since you seem to have a hard time extrapolating relevant information.

I have to bring that up because clearly people have have reading issues. I even gave examples as how to change it yet people keep yelling "I want downed state to stay".

"That can be the ress speed,hp% in downed state,not being able to get up 4x in one minute etc. There are multiple ways to adress this"

Something i also need to keep repeating.

All of which I am fully aware of. Have you also addressed the vastly reduced ttk compared to vanilla?

@Cyninja.2954 said:First off, your 34 upvotes are near meaningless. You gave no ability for people to contradict you or disagree. That's like making a poll with only YES as an answer. Obviously people who agree will upvote your comment, what exactly are people who disagree going to do? Exactly, nothing.

Second, most forum useres migrate to threads they find interesting to them. People who have no issue with downed state works might not even look at your thread or just skim through it. Forums have a tendacy to amplify any opinion or topic in one of two directions (eihter draw a lot of positiv feedback or the exact opposite).

Finally, no downed state week clearly shows what the issues of no downed state are: everybody goes full burst and just tries to pick off as many players as possible. The ttk in this game is designed with downed state in mind. If you were to remove the downed state, expect severe rebalance in survivability. That in turn would absolutely kill roaming.

What are people going to do that disagree ? I think thats pretty clear isnt it ?
  • So given ttk is a lot lower since vanilla.
  • Given that no downed state week clearly shows that there are severe issues with this game mode when downed state is temoprarily removed.
  • Given that there is builds and abilities directly added into the game by Arenanet to get people faster out of downed state.

You can't connect the dots?

Here let me help:Arenanet use downed state to balance and add a tactical element to the main design and gameplay component in WvW: huge group fights. They have added abilities and runes to specifically allow downed state management. They added a no downed state week to test how the game would work without downed state but have not expanded on that concept. I'm not sure how much clearer their design around downed state can be.

EDIT: don't gimme that bs. Overall ttk is way down from vanilla. If you disagree with that, fine, I don't care. But expect people to put up resistance who do agree that ttk in WvW is way down (same as spvp by the way).

It's comical how patronising you are, while unironically promoting downstate as a solution to the powercreep problem, people discuss since the April 2014 Feature Pack, instead of adressing the underlying problems. Insta revives as answer to 7k autoattacks is infact the way that led us here.

When did I promote the power creep? That's you reading in something which I did not state.

I do not agree with changing the downed state given the power creep though.

Those two things are not the same.

I think they actually are, since downed state in his current environment is part of the creep.

Insignificant compared to the power creep which happened on all levels of which directly affects ttk in WvW:

  • access to boons
  • pure damage output of classes (which basically trippled compared to vanilla)
  • movement skills and map traversal (swiftness is basically baseline now for all classes even before the mount was added)
  • access to stealth (more blasts, more smoke fields)
  • new attribute combinations

But we are getting off topic. If you want to discuss power creep, make a new topic. I'm sure a lot of people will join in.

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