Nerf the mesmers for the love of pvp

[Regon Phoenix.8215]

@DigiQWill.6378 said:Where do you get those insane numbers from?

I literally explained everything point by point...... Reread my original comment.

@DigiQWill.6378 said:Calling invulnerability for the time it takes you to learn where the player is simply a lack of knowledge from you - in no way should Mesmers suffer from your subjective thoughts because you think they are hard to play against.

QUOTE: "A good player will act just like clones"If you play only against bad players who instantly give out where they are, that doesn't mean that there aren't any good mesmer players.

@DigiQWill.6378 said:And I want to know how did you get 27k hp on Warrior in PvP while thinking you'd be viable.

So, the problem isn't that a mesmer can 1shot a player with that amount of health OUT OF STEALTH, but the actual problem is the amount of HP? Are you serious?

@DigiQWill.6378 said:And I would like to know what makes you think you can't evade a burst from stealth.

Here is a radical idea you might never though about: maybe because you can't see players in stealth and you can't do anything about what you don't see?

@DigiQWill.6378 said:Mesmers were nerf well enough already.

Doesn't matter. It still can do ridiculous things and who quite game breaking. No amount of nerf (maybe except to power mesmer) could fix a broken design.

@DigiQWill.6378 said:Not played at high ranks when it comes to structured PvP (mAt levels) and has one of the lowest winrates right now (if I remember correctly, Ben mentionned it was around 45% - right besides Elementalist. I don't remember where he said that though).

The fact that not a lot people play something doesn't change the fact that it is fundamentally broken. Not a lot of people are capable to study science, but nevertheless teach science to kids in schools.

@DigiQWill.6378 said:While disguising your argument behind the "Ah only good players can play Mesmer correctly, thus making this class only performing but it doesn't mean it is less broken in the right hands", the same could be saod from all classes.

It doesn't matter how good you play warrior - you will not be able to 1shot people out of stealth. It doesn't matter how good you play necromancer - you will not be able to evade everything for +10 sec while applying tons of conditions at the same time.

[XECOR.2814]

@praqtos.9035 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:People have finally gotten wise to Chaotic Interruption Condi, eh?

I T B E G I N SWell, its hard to understand if its CI complaint. All I see from OP and everyone in the thread: REEEEEEEEEE MESMERS HAS CLONES THAT UnfAIRrr reereeeeeeeeee.If that would be only CI QQ I would agree even but nah.

Yes mesmers have too many clone generation thats correct. All of them keep putting torment and shit on you constantly and passively while mirage afks/stealths and bursts you. I would suggest maximum clone generation to 2 and that too with less frequency. Either that or clones dont damage you at all aside from very minor power damage maybe.

[Xstein.2187]

For anyone who said people wouldn't be happy until mesmer was nerfed out of the meta, you were wrong.People will not be happy until mesmer is removed from the game. ^^^^^

I really need to learn to stay away from these forums because I just see the same things over, and over, and over again. . . . . including this comment :'(

[praqtos.9035]

@XECOR.2814 said:

@praqtos.9035 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:People have finally gotten wise to Chaotic Interruption Condi, eh?

I T B E G I N SWell, its hard to understand if its CI complaint. All I see from OP and everyone in the thread: REEEEEEEEEE MESMERS HAS CLONES THAT UnfAIRrr reereeeeeeeeee.If that would be only CI QQ I would agree even but nah.

Yes mesmers have too many clone generation thats correct. All of them keep putting torment and kitten on you constantly and passively while mirage afks/stealths and bursts you. I would suggest maximum clone generation to 2 and that too with less frequency. Either that or clones dont damage you at all aside from very minor power damage maybe.You are absolutely clueless about the class, sadly, like everyone else who QQ about the mesmer. There is no way for mesmer to NOT rely on clones to do the damage.You dont even understand that mesmer damage TIED into phantasm/clones. Phantasms never do 10k++ damage like arc divider, maul,dj and whatnot, their cooldown is like 3-6 seconds, phantasm summon is 1s cast on ~20-30 seconds cd. How is that fair? Its not. Give all damage to mesmer, completely rework mesmer to be undependent on clones and remove all damage from clones all you want, replace phantasms with an actual real skill that mesmer cast himself.Cones die in 1 auto and used for shatters as well. No clones, no shatters, no damage at all for the mesmer(Condi based). Can I destroy warrior adrenaline, thief initiative,necro shroud,rev energy before they have a chance to use their class mechanic ?2 clones and less generation?Ok only if this changes would happen : Necromancer has too much shroud - I think it should be only 1/3 of the current one. Thief initiative generating too quick thus this lead to brainless spam - must be 50% of current one. Adrenaline generation is too high - they should generate it in combat and to get 1 bar they must spend 30 seconds in combat, adrenaline gain skills are deleted. Revenant should generate energy only if he is standing still. When engineer use toolbelt all toolbelts share the cooldown of used skill. If ranger and pet share same hp, if one dies, the other one is dies too . I can meme too :DComplaints about clones in 2019 ... No.

[Ziggityzog.7389]

Again I played vs a mesmer that can dodge damage for 3 minutes with all the visual garbage. Guess what he spams conditions while dodging and evading for 3 minutes.

How does one play vs a class that can stay permanently invulnerable?

Only way to fix the noob carry class that is mes is to go back to where torment and confusion would only do damage if you actually walked or actually cast a skill.

Free damage from confusion and torment have ruined the game.

[praqtos.9035]

@Xstein.2187 said:For anyone who said people wouldn't be happy until mesmer was nerfed out of the meta, you were wrong.People will not be happy until mesmer is removed from the game. ^^^^^

I really need to learn to stay away from these forums because I just see the same things over, and over, and over again. . . . . including this comment :'(I know the feeling.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

How to balance mesmer in easy steps:1 - clones have 1hp.2 - IH makes clones do an animation but clones do 0 damage (mesmer itself doesn't get any compensation either).3 - clones look now like moas.4 - tab makes you target the real mesmer, in fact, if there's is one mesmer on game tab targets it.5 - remove all cc from mesmer.6 - mesmer has the hp and damage of the new clones, which means 1hp and 0 damage.

That should do the trick.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

@Ziggityzog.7389 said:Again I played vs a mesmer that can dodge damage for 3 minutes with all the visual garbage. Guess what he spams conditions while dodging and evading for 3 minutes.

How does one play vs a class that can stay permanently invulnerable?

Only way to fix the noob carry class that is mes is to go back to where torment and confusion would only do damage if you actually walked or actually cast a skill.

Free damage from confusion and torment have ruined the game.

Play 1 and learn it. There will be windows of opportunity after some experience playing a mesmer.

[Tayga.3192]

If we are only talking about "evade", any necromancer and any scepter/x + staff (or gs) mirage has nearly the same amount of reliable evades (mirage has a bit vigor uptime but necromancer has one more health bar. Also, ele and engi has 100% vigor uptime). I deliberately left out mirage mirrors because it's not reliable evade.

Not to say that mirages need dodging for both offense and defense, so they have to take energy sigils. In comparison, most other classes can take 4 damaging/utility sigils.

Edit: If OP plays warrior, he can just use a movement skill to remove immobilize.

[Math.5123]

@otto.5684 said:@Regon Phoenix.8215 as someone who mastered guardian, I have not lost a solo battle to a condi mesmer since the March nerf. Even before then, I was 85-90% win rate. I play mostly sage FB now, and I win against memsers most of the time.

You know, maybe the issue is not mesmer as a class, but your skill level? In P1 and above Mesmer is currently the worst performing class.

@Daishi.6027 said:

@Ziggityzog.7389 said:The carry class for baddies.

Carry to where? There are so few in top placements even prior to the nerfs.

Exactly. Relatively inexperienced players will have issues against Mesmer. And honestly, the visual noise is ridiculous. But at higher skill level it is all a mirage (pun intended).

The CI mirage is currently the strongest sidenoder. Ritu literally farmed everyone on it last mat.

[Koen.1327]

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@otto.5684 said:@Regon Phoenix.8215 as someone who mastered guardian, I have not lost a solo battle to a condi mesmer since the March nerf. Even before then, I was 85-90% win rate. I play mostly sage FB now, and I win against memsers most of the time.

You know, maybe the issue is not mesmer as a class, but your skill level? In P1 and above Mesmer is currently the worst performing class.

@Daishi.6027 said:

@Ziggityzog.7389 said:The carry class for baddies.

Carry to where? There are so few in top placements even prior to the nerfs.

Exactly. Relatively inexperienced players will have issues against Mesmer. And honestly, the visual noise is ridiculous. But at higher skill level it is all a mirage (pun intended).

The CI mirage is currently the strongest sidenoder. Ritu literally farmed everyone on it last mat.

it has too many flaws and counters to be the strongest sidenoderwould go and say both pistol and CI are not strongest pick for mirage, but this depends on comp i guess and still some prefer CI

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

How to kill a CI mes: put on stab.No need to thank me.

[praqtos.9035]

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:How to kill a CI mes: put on stab.No need to thank me.In fact, I wouldnt miss CI condi mirages at all.Nerf CI, buff mesmer

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:How to kill a CI mes: put on stab.No need to thank me.

Some classes have like 1 or 2 stacks and are not readily available, so then what?

[Dami.5046]

again? sigh again.Please let them work on other things..

[otto.5684]

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:How to kill a CI mes: put on stab.No need to thank me.

Some classes have like 1 or 2 stacks and are not readily available, so then what?

Like fighting anything, you should time your skills. If you avoid the chaos storms, you can counter the rest by condi removal, CC break and dodging.

[Mbelch.9028]

@"Ziggityzog.7389" said:bucko..

kiddo..

kids..

bucko.

Dude. Your stuff is so condescending it's not funny. You could make points without all of the above. If people disagree, let them, or argue with facts, not "kiddos" and "buckos" lol.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:How to kill a CI mes: put on stab.No need to thank me.

Some classes have like 1 or 2 stacks and are not readily available, so then what?

Come on, you play thief, CI doesn't even affect you.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:How to kill a CI mes: put on stab.No need to thank me.

Some classes have like 1 or 2 stacks and are not readily available, so then what?

Come on, you play thief, CI doesn't even affect you.

I do t ONLY play thief and that's besides the point.

[praqtos.9035]

@Mbelch.9028 said:

@"Ziggityzog.7389" said:bucko..

kiddo..

kids..

bucko.

Dude. Your stuff is so condescending it's not funny. You could make points without all of the above. If people disagree, let them, or argue with facts, not "kiddos" and "buckos" lol.He is mad child hyperbolizing to insanity (spoiler: I did it as well somewhere but its hard to miss, not here xD). There is simple fact : no one can be invulnerable-perma evading for 3 minutes, especially mesmer with gutted vigor access and not having access to any endurance boost like thief/engi/ranger. Simple logical conclusion - if he fought 3 minutes perma invul mesmer, he did play just as busted class as this mesmer (its not possible anyway)He is apparently mad that confusion does 10 damage per second if you dont use skills, what a tragedy....

[praqtos.9035]

@otto.5684 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:How to kill a CI mes: put on stab.No need to thank me.

Some classes have like 1 or 2 stacks and are not readily available, so then what?

Like fighting anything, you should time your skills. If you avoid the chaos storms, you can counter the rest by condi removal, CC break and dodging.He also can try to fake casting or spam stowing, if you fight chrono they will spam daze mantra on you even if you attempt to cast an auto attack (I would) for boons,burst,immob. LoS a lot,if you can, I dont really recommend to engage in 1x1 with it, you probably want to 1x2 it with a thief or if thief is skilled enough he will eat him alive himself.My honest opinion : this trait shouldnt immobilize. Buff pmesmer

[Ziggityzog.7389]

@praqtos.9035 said:

@Mbelch.9028 said:

@"Ziggityzog.7389" said:bucko..

kiddo..

kids..

bucko.

Dude. Your stuff is so condescending it's not funny. You could make points without all of the above. If people disagree, let them, or argue with facts, not "kiddos" and "buckos" lol.He is mad child hyperbolizing to insanity (spoiler: I did it as well somewhere but its hard to miss, not here xD). There is simple fact : no one can be invulnerable-perma evading for 3 minutes, especially mesmer with gutted vigor access and not having access to any endurance boost like thief/engi/ranger. Simple logical conclusion - if he fought 3 minutes perma invul mesmer, he did play just as busted class as this mesmer (its not possible anyway)He is apparently mad that confusion does 10 damage per second if you dont use skills, what a tragedy....

Sorry I use the terms when the other person is obviously talking with a bias and not reality. 3 minutes is a exaggeration and that should be known just like its exaggerated that all you have to do is have stability, dodge, or git good.

Mesmer is broken plain and simple and I did fight a chrono with about 1 minute worth of dodging, evading, blocking, invulnerability. While spamming conditions and cc. Oh and making screen spam with clones and phantasm.

How is that fair?

Oh sorry I should learn the class lol, even tho i have and I have one each class to test all specs.

[mortrialus.3062]

Regardless of the individual tuning on the build (I'm not opposed Mantras of Distraction and Pain becoming projectiles with travel time, and the random interrupts on Chaos Storm going away) I personally think Mesmer focusing heavily on counter spelling and locking down opponents is what the class should be doing on a thematic and class asymmetry level so I'd rather not see it go away entirely. It's like Guardian's being excellent support in team fights and thieves being extremely mobile and rangers using long range weapons and necromancers corrupting opponents.

The immobilization could probably go down to 1s baseline. With the meta build the 2s immobilization gets bumped up to a spammable 3 second immobilization which is... it's a lot.

One of the things I find very problematic is the tuning on Mantra of Distraction. So get this;

The Mantra Ammo Counts have a 24 second cooldown. If you spam and double cast the mantra rather than waiting on the ammo the cooldown for recharging the mantra is only 12 seconds to get both charges back. So not only are you not punished for using it as frequently as possible rather than saving it and waiting on the ammo, you're actually rewarded with more frequent dazes and cooldown reduction on Diversion if you use it off cooldown.

That seems backwards to me. Like the ammo recharge should go down to 15 seconds on recharge and the full mantra cooldown should be 30 seconds on recharge. So if you're patient, if you time your interrupts better, you get more value out of them. But if you want to interrupt twice very frequently you have to pay for it with a higher cooldown to use interrupts again. And if you do count 2 mantra dazes right away you know they aren't going to be able to do so again for some time.

[viquing.8254]

Ha nice, a nerf mesmers thread, It's been a long time.Here we go :

@King xiuras.3615 said:Mesmers that can spam infinite clonesinfinite = 3, maximum 6 during a shatter operation.mesmers that can immobilizeOnly if you mindlesss spam auto or key skill with no security.stunlock youLike every other meta class. Need aoe hard CC with no target like other please.spam tormentAre you spamming on scepter block ?Its ridiculous how they have so many evadesWay less than war, elem, slb, holo, thief, rev.and invulnerabilities...1, 50 sec CD, who can be reset by a 50 cd trait.Nerf the mesmer builds and make them more vulnerable good lord..... It's totally unfun to fight them, especially when the enemy team has two of them...Because double of other meta class is totally fun to fight.

@"Regon Phoenix.8215" said:While playing a warrior with +27k HP i was instantly 1shot by power mesmer out of stealth. While it might be extreme case of lucky crits, but still, power mesmer can deal over 27k damage instantly out of stealth.??? where is the 1 shot clic who does 27k + damage ?The only way to approach this is on a nude stake under vulnerability while having full boon.Tips :1) try using passive endure pain auto-proc.2) try using no full zerk gear.Now, condition mesmer (mirage) is a bit different. This how average fight against one goes:Step 1: He/she instantly makes clones and breaks your targeting.instantly = 3/4 sec phantasm cast most of time.a 3/4 sec cast time on 18 sec CD will do 4k+ damage instantly on most meta class.A good player will act just like clones, so you will have to manually search for the real mesmer. This make take anywhere from 1 to 3 sec.Yeah that's why people cry about mesmers since release. That's say a good player will just instatly select the real mesmer.Step 2: Once you find the real mesmer, he/she will enter stealth and make more clones. So, once again you will have to manually search for the real one anywhere from 1 to 3 sec.Destroy clones during stealth ?Step 3: After you find the real one, then she/he will dodge and evade some of you attacks will give that players from 2 to 4 sec of invulnerability.Step 4: After evading some attacks, he/she teleport around (loss of sight, etc) until some abilities goes off cooldown which would be equal of 6-8 of invulnerability.Step 5: Repeat steps 1, 2 and 3.Why you just run under clone get kitted by the mes ? Just LoS, and wait for he to come under your kite.Now, that gives a good mesmer player about 14-28 sec time frame of being untouchable. And during this entire time mesmer ins constantly applying conditions. So, not only you can't do anything to that mesmer, but you also are take about 6-10k damage every single second from conditions applied on you.Yeah you know mesmer aren't a high regen class like war, holo soulbeast etc who can get full heal passively or with a heal cast. I'm all for facetank damage like some can do but I use the tools I have to survive.When played by a player who mastered this class, then there is nearly nothing other players can do to deal with mesmer. You will either be instantly killed or have to fight someone who you can't touch and who deals tons of damage on you while itself being safe from anything.That's why everyone play mesmer in plat3.The main point i am trying to make that mesmer isn't overtuned (or under powered, how some mesmers claim they are while instantly killing other players from stealth). The main point is this: mesmer is broken class in every step of its design, and that cause great problems when skilled players abuse this class. New/unskilled players and average players doesn't even matter, because they can't abuse the state of this class how skilled players can. While there are other classes who perform better in the hands of average players (because mesmer is quite complex class compared to most other classes), but that's not an excuse for keeping this essentially broken class in this state.And it could be fixed very easily in three steps:1) Remove stealth from all abilities and traits;2) Remove ability to break the targeting;And give a 2nd health bar like necro, some water field combo to full regen like holo, some passive health regen like war or some more evade like thief ?3) Reduce amount of clones summoned from any abilities to 1.Actually I totally agree with this, find it was a mistake to make 2 clones production on weapon.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/65258/suggestion-balancing-mesmers

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:The CI mirage is currently the strongest sidenoder. Ritu literally farmed everyone on it last mat.That's why they win the final. (Ho wait.)Fact is that ritu build is extremely defensive and their opponnents try to Xv1 him.Secondly, there is plethora of builds who hardcounter his like :

• Scrapper : projectile reflect + stab proc + condiclear versus a build with 80% projectile output, condi pressure and lock should do the work...
• SB : just switch back to the defensive line like PoF beginning.Than you have thief on which rupt mean aren't the best options, SlB who have condiclear, stab and stealth, Holo who have stab builds, FB who have stab+ condiclear.And when you take a step back, youu should see that lock build is as effetive as it always been, once people look at pro/cons, they will adapt fast.Can't wait to Bo3, Bo5 to highlight the build adaptation between matchs.

[Moradorin.6217]

@"King xiuras.3615" said:Mesmers that can spam infinite clones, mesmers that can immobilize, stunlock you and spam torment etc... Its ridiculous how they have so many evades and invulnerabilities... most professions can't even take them down solo without being hit by their stupid clones.

Nerf the mesmer builds and make them more vulnerable good lord..... It's totally unfun to fight them, especially when the enemy team has two of them...

Well I wrote a response to your original post and addressed each topic. You have since edited your post to change the wording of the OP. I will use my copy of the OP since its what MOST people read and reponded to. I dont post here often, but I have played mesmer about 7 years and have over 8k hours played on my account.

Lets classify all mesmer player in these categories: 30% of all mesmers who can't play the class, 50% of all mesmers who can play this class (average players) and 20% of all mesmers who can play this class very well.Lets talk only about those 20% of mesmers who can play this class very well.

Now, lets separate out power mesmers (either core, chrono or mirage, doesn't matter) and condition mesmers (mirage).

While playing a warrior with +27k HP i was instantly 1shot by power mesmer out of stealth. While it might be extreme case of lucky crits, but still, power mesmer can deal over 27k damage instantly out of stealth. There is no country play to it, there is absolutely nothing you can do to prevent that from happening. It doesn't matter what class you play or how good you play - you will instantly die without any warning. And i don't mean you will have time to dodge once or twice. Nope, it will happen in under 1 sec of time frame. To whom does that sound fun or balanced?

This is a simple learn to play (L2P) issue. The GS "1shot" burst is acually a chain of attacks that typically DOES have a rather large tell and is easily avoided. Additionally, it has a long cooldown due to the need to wait for a number of skills to be ready before another identical burst could be reapplied. Again, this is not too hard to avoid particularly for a Warrior: When you see the mesmer coming which you will since they have very limited stealth duration. You just count about 3 seconds from the stealth then put up a defensive or be ready to move/dodge. I would have to see the "27k" crit becuse I think you are literally making this up and you arent presenting anything to back up your claim.

Now, condition mesmer (mirage) is a bit different. This how average fight against one goes:Step 1: He/she instantly makes clones and breaks your targeting. A good player will act just like clones, so you will have to manually search for the real mesmer. This make take anywhere from 1 to 3 sec.

Clone generation is limited, its not instant unlimited clones. Examples: lets talk about it. Using Mirrior images (a stun break with a 30 sec cooldown) which can make 2 clones, but requires using up a stun break and has a rather long cooldown. Alternatively, they generate one clone almost instantly with staff "Phase retreat" (10 sec cooldown) if they have a staff equipt this can make 1 clone every 10 seconds. Alternativly, mesmers also have a few traits that impact clone generation, all of them have trade offs, more clone generation means less healing, less damage, less defense in exchange for the clone generation. Its all limited.NOW lets address your claim that "you will have to manually search for the real mesmer". To en experienced player this sounds 100% like L2P. Why?? Two huge reasons come to mind. Firstly, youre saying you play a warrior. Warriors get terrific cleave that can and does whipe out all the clones at once AND ALSO does damage to the mesmer at the SAME TIME! So if you have to go through them one by one, you are making some serious mistakes in basic class play. Additionally, (pay attention to this) the way to single out the mesmer ISNT to hit clones one by one. The way you single out the real mesmer, 90% of the time is to simply look for the trait based skill icons in the players boon list. Mesmers ALWAYS use traits that make little pink trait icons mixed in with buff and condi icons. Things like "Fencers finesse", "Illusionary Defense", "Compunding Power", etc not to mention that MANY use signets which are INSTANT tell as to which is the "real mesmer". So again I assert this all simple Learn to Play. Specifically, if you want to play Warrior. You sound like you just need to learn to play Warrior.

Step 2: Once you find the real mesmer, he/she will enter stealth and make more clones. So, once again you will have to manually search for the real one anywhere from 1 to 3 sec.

Repeat previous statement this is the same issue. Basically, from my perspective I know the Warrior has enough sustain and damage be ready for that next attack from the mes and I also know that the warrior can typically do enough damage to take the mesmer out many times over in the period it takes the mesmer to get enough damage through the warriors many defensive traits to actually down the warrior. Then the warrior can ALSO actually get back up and burst AGAIN after beging downed, while all a downed mesmer can do is throw confusion and 1 phant while it randomly moves 3 feet in some unknown direction. Again the warrior has the advantage from start to finish. Congrats to the mesmer who can win this.

Step 3: After you find the real one, then she/he will dodge and evade some of you attacks will give that players from 2 to 4 sec of invulnerability.Distortion is the only invulnerability mesmers get and it comes with a 50 second cooldown. You can trait to randomly get it reset ONCE if you get hit by knockdown, stun, etc you can also bring a signet that lets Discortion and all Shatter skills reset once if you consume the signet. This makes it EASIER TO FIND REAL Mesmer due to the signet being a HUGE tell. (l2p)

Now lets consider "evades" evades are either limited by "energy" like any other class, OR they are attached to skills in the skill bar which all have cooldowns and tradeoffs like any other class. Mesmer used to get a ALLOT of evades like a year+ ago before the massive nerfs to Vigor uptime. Mesmers can bring sigil of energy, however, and get 1 extra dodge per weapon swap which is a standard thing SINCE THEY NEED IT AND EVERY CLASS HAS ACCESS TO THAT SAME EXTRA DODGE ON SWAP! EVERYONE!

Step 4: After evading some attacks, he/she teleport around (loss of sight, etc) until some abilities goes off cooldown which would be equal of 6-8 of invulnerability.

Even here mesmer's mobility has been nerfed over and over along with everything else. They like thief actually NEED the mobility and are SUPPOSED to have it, its part of the play style. Mesmers arguably have less of it than many others now, to be honest. Its part of the reason mesmer isnt meta anymore. (lacks mobility compared to thief, ranger, warrior) Addtionally, here you are basically equating leaving the fight with 6-8 sec invulnerability!! ANYONE CAN disengage from the fight and return I see warriors do it daily, DOES THAT MEAN WARRIOR HAS 6-8 SEC INVULN!?!?! I think not, nor does it mean the mesmer would. This is a 100% bogus assertion!LEARN TO PLAY! LEARN TO PLAY! LEARN TO PLAY! LEARN TO PLAY! LEARN TO PLAY! LEARN TO PLAY! LEARN TO PLAY! LEARN TO PLAY! LEARN TO PLAY! LEARN TO PLAY! LEARN TO PLAY! LEARN TO PLAY! LEARN TO PLAY! LEARN TO PLAY! LEARN TO PLAY! LEARN TO PLAY! LEARN TO PLAY! LEARN TO PLAY! LEARN TO PLAY! LEARN TO PLAY! LEARN TO PLAY! LEARN TO PLAY! LEARN TO PLAY! LEARN TO PLAY! LEARN TO PLAY! LEARN TO PLAY! LEARN TO PLAY! LEARN TO PLAY! LEARN TO PLAY! LEARN TO PLAY! LEARN TO PLAY! LEARN TO PLAY!

Step 5: Repeat steps 1, 2 and 3.Now, that gives a good mesmer player about 14-28 sec time frame of being untouchable. And during this entire time mesmer ins constantly applying conditions. So, not only you can't do anything to that mesmer, but you also are take about 6-10k damage every single second from conditions applied on you.

When played by a player who mastered this class, then there is nearly nothing other players can do to deal with mesmer. You will either be instantly killed or have to fight someone who you can't touch and who deals tons of damage on you while itself being safe from anything.The main point i am trying to make that mesmer isn't overtuned (or under powered, how some mesmers claim they are while instantly killing other players from stealth). The main point is this: mesmer is broken class in every step of its design, and that cause great problems when skilled players abuse this class. New/unskilled players and average players doesn't even matter, because they can't abuse the state of this class how skilled players can. While there are other classes who perform better in the hands of average players (because mesmer is quite complex class compared to most other classes), but that's not an excuse for keeping this essentially broken class in this state.

And it could be fixed very easily in three steps:

1) Remove stealth from all abilities and traits;

Ok sure, if we remove ALL stealth from pvp totally I would be fine with this. Every class though not just mesmer lol.

2) Remove ability to break the targeting;

Again this is a defensive ability many classes have. Sure lets remove it from EVERYONE and replace it with things closer to those that warrior gets so I dont have to break targeting, I would be able to use a block or counter then instead of needing to move and break targets. To be frank it sounds allot more like you want to just make mesmer totally incapable of withstanding your attacks. Question: In what way is this NOT L2P? Please explain!?!?

3) Reduce amount of clones summoned from any abilities to 1.

As said before, clone generation is limited. Some builds trait and choose skills to use more clones at the cost of other things like damage, defense, and utility. Its a trade off. The mesmer builds that are still viable in pvp all pretty much require mesmers use all these things to have a chance of winning matches. Again you seem to just have a hard time learning a few things so you would rather make an entire class basically die so you can feel powerful on your warrior?!? Please explain why my interpretation of your post is wrong. Please explain to me how this isnt ALL LEARN TO PLAY!

With these three simple fixes every single issue with mesmer would be instantly solved: no more instant kills from stealth and no more armies of clones putting constant pressure on you while you don't even know where the real mesmer went.

The only thing your suggestions would do is eliminate mesmer as a valid class which no doubt will put the final death nail in GW2 considering how many people actually LIKE and PLAY mes. If you want to kill the entire game go ahead and continue with the mesmer hate. IMO it is the root of the player downturn. PvP was MUCH better a year ago when pretty much every class some OP aspects and everyone had enough burst to 1 v 1 anyone else. Was it perfect back them?!? Hell no! Was it more fun to play pvp back then though!?!? Hell Yes!The thing killing PvP is player hate for other classes. WTH people move on!