Nerf the mesmers for the love of pvp

[Regon Phoenix.8215]

@"necromaniac.7629" said:

No my friend, there a re plenty of ways to not instantly die to their bursts, speaking as mesmer myslef, they do manage to get me to atleast 50% hp but as soon as i see that red thing below me i just invul, dodge stealth and re start the fight.

Wow, so you can "invul, dodge stealth and re start the fight" when you get 1shoted? Could you share what kind of magical skills allow you to do that while you are downed? It would be so interesting to read.

[Regon Phoenix.8215]

@Khalisto.5780 said:30% find mesmers annoying to fight against, but not necessarily op - and these people are the people who fight against unskilled mesmers who don't even know what to do with this class50% can't even find the real mesmer - there are people who think that mesmers are bad and should be buffed20% are laughing that someone thinks mesmers are OP - and these are mesmers who enjoy their broken class while facerolling most other classes

[Burnfall.9573]

@necromaniac.7629 said:

@"Regon Phoenix.8215" said:There is no country play to it, there is absolutely nothing you can do to prevent that from happening. It doesn't matter what class you play or how good you play - you will instantly die without any warning. And i don't mean you will have time to dodge once or twice. Nope, it will happen in under 1 sec of time frame. To whom does that sound fun or balanced?

No my friend, there a re plenty of ways to not instantly die to their bursts, speaking as mesmer myslef, they do manage to get me to atleast 50% hp but as soon as i see that red thing below me i just invul, dodge stealth and re start the fight.

As of today; all these Thief Toxic builds continue to go under-the radar throughout the years, whereas Mesmer Toxic builds gets easily targeted with endless nerfs

Yet you can say 'preventing from happening'?

Where is the Fairness for Mesmer?

-dodge-GW2 Staff Thief: Endless Dodge Build Guide

-stealth-GW2 Thief, Deadeye | How to Perma Stealth |

-invul+re start the fight-Guild Wars 2 (PVP) - "The Ultimate Troll Class/Profession for Noobs"

[Daishi.6027]

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@Daishi.6027 said:Here is a radical idea, maybe you can anticipate the hit and dodge it by knowing he stealth window.

So, players you fight against announce when they enter stealth and when they come close to you without you knowing they are in stealth? With who do you play? I would love to play against people who announce when they are about to ambush me out of stealth.

Unless it’s thief no stealth lasts long enough for you to not know your opponent is there, and even with thief you would have a general idea of being stalked. While on point there is more than enough distance for you notice a target approaching. While roaming yourself you should have a general idea, unless you lack map awareness.

Sorry, but no good player finds it “impossible” to dodge stealth attacks. The game gives you enough tools to discern for yourself.

[Dreddo.9865]

The thing is many higher tier players here ignore the fact that at their level is teamwork the deciding factor and not individual characteristics. Yet this topic speaks about mesmer's class profile which is being unbalanced compared to other classes. You can't have all the package like crazy damage, tons of defense and mobility - this is just absurd. Every class should have its counter class (in "one against one" scenarios), ideally. But for the mesmer you always need to +1 even +2 if he is a good one.

[praqtos.9035]

@"Dreddo.9865" said:The thing is many higher tier players here ignore the fact that at their level is teamwork the deciding factor and not individual characteristics. Yet this topic speaks about mesmer's class profile which is being unbalanced compared to other classes. You can't have all the package like crazy damage, tons of defense and mobility - this is just absurd. Every class should have its counter class (in "one against one" scenarios), ideally. But for the mesmer you always need to +1 even +2 if he is a good one.Is this typical complaint that mesmer has all traitlines packed,all weapons on demand and few amulets in his pocket? If you need THREE people to kill a mesmer, you are goddamn bad and wont outnumber anyone, not just the mesmer or your plus 2 are 2 scrappers or support firebrands

[Dreddo.9865]

@praqtos.9035 said:Is this typical complaint that mesmer has all traitlines packed,all weapons on demand and few amulets in his pocket? If you need THREE people to kill a mesmer, you are kitten bad and wont outnumber anyone, not just the mesmer or your plus 2 are 2 scrappers or support firebrandsIs this typical answer of a player unfamiliar with mesmer's traits and abilities? If so makes sense but let me help you.

First how is scrapper compared with the mesmer?

Does he one shot from stealth? Does he perma stunlock you (Chaotic Interruption) and simultaneously give you ton of condis in seconds? Does he Blinks with a press of a button and is 1200m away or even shadowstep (x3)? Which other class in the game has the above package? Did I mention clones, stealth, Evades, Invulns and other badly designed stuff? no

Finally which class in the game (equal player skill) can match it up comfortably contesting a node?

And yes if the mesmer is a good player he can't be killed, even when with team effort you try to block his escape routes. Same as thief currently.

[praqtos.9035]

@Dreddo.9865 said:

@praqtos.9035 said:Is this typical complaint that mesmer has all traitlines packed,all weapons on demand and few amulets in his pocket? If you need THREE people to kill a mesmer, you are kitten bad and wont outnumber anyone, not just the mesmer or your plus 2 are 2 scrappers or support firebrandsIs this typical answer of a player unfamiliar with mesmer's traits and abilities? If so makes sense but let me help you.

First how is scrapper compared with the mesmer?

Does he one shot from stealth? Does he perma stunlock you (Chaotic Interruption) and simultaneously give you ton of condis in seconds? Does he Blinks with a press of a button and is 1200m away or even shadowstep (x3)? Which other class in the game has the above package? Did I mention clones, stealth, Evades, Invulns and other badly designed stuff? no

Finally which class in the game (equal player skill) can match it up

comfortably

contesting a node?

And yes if the mesmer is a good player he can't be killed, even when with team effort you try to block his escape routes. Same as thief currently.You do exactly what I said in previous post. Mix EVERYTHING that mesmer CAN do in ONE build with BILLION utilities and traitlines. And exaggerations...Your claims are nothing but a frigging joke and its disgusting to see such people over and over.If mesmer would be so godlike as noobs make it look like we would see every team with 2 godmode mesmers with all possible traitlines instead of double revenants.When I made a thread with ridiculous claims and exaggerations it was removed, but why I cant report posts of all these people thats a big question.

[Equinox.1463]

@Dreddo.9865 said:

@praqtos.9035 said:Is this typical complaint that mesmer has all traitlines packed,all weapons on demand and few amulets in his pocket? If you need THREE people to kill a mesmer, you are kitten bad and wont outnumber anyone, not just the mesmer or your plus 2 are 2 scrappers or support firebrandsIs this typical answer of a player unfamiliar with mesmer's traits and abilities? If so makes sense but let me help you.

First how is scrapper compared with the mesmer?

Does he one shot from stealth? Does he perma stunlock you (Chaotic Interruption) and simultaneously give you ton of condis in seconds? Does he Blinks with a press of a button and is 1200m away or even shadowstep (x3)? Which other class in the game has the above package? Did I mention clones, stealth, Evades, Invulns and other badly designed stuff? no

Finally which class in the game (equal player skill) can match it up

comfortably

contesting a node?

And yes if the mesmer is a good player he can't be killed, even when with team effort you try to block his escape routes. Same as thief currently.

I would greatly like to see which Mesmer can one shot from stealth, perma stunlock you with CI, shits conditions on you like crazy, all while 3v1ing and keeping the cap! And you said it yourself: Mesmer's archnemesis is Thief. Those two classes are well know to be a mouse against a cat. Really, get your facts straight. Yes, nerf CI so it gets an icd. Yes, nerf some of Mirage's abilities to dodge while heavy CCd. But no, don't remove Mesmers' abilities to stealth, one shot pony tricks or its invulnerabiliy frames outside of dodges. A Weaver has more dodges than a Mirage, lets not talk about other Mesmer specs. We are a lightweight armor class, meaning things hit like a truck when they do hit (because yes, that is how it works in GW2).

On your final question, a lot of classes can on equal skill level. Holosmith, Weaver, Core Thief, Spellbreaker, Soulbeast, all these can rather easily on equal skill match ups.

And all classes can easily escape through kiting, even in 3v1s. Not just Mesmers. Not just Thieves. Warriors, Rangers, Engineers, Guardians, Revenant, Elementalists all have the kit. Only Necromancers show lack in some mobility. Coming from a Mesmer, Ranger and Thief multiclasser, I got a good basis on all classes (excepted Necros because of their lack of mobility Imo).

I won't say you are bad, albeit some of your statements are misinformed. I would suggest banging your head in duels against different types of Mesmers, and even play some too, to help you in your nerf suggestions.

Have a good one!

[Regon Phoenix.8215]

@Daishi.6027 said:and even with thief you would have a general idea of being stalked.

How? Don't just say that you see invisible enemies, share how you see them. Do you use some sorts of hacks or something, because no other player in here seems to know the trick you are using to see invisible enemies.

@Daishi.6027 said:While on point there is more than enough distance for you notice a target approaching.

Oh, so you one of those people who don't know that mesmer can teleport around. That explains a lot.

@Daishi.6027 said:Sorry, but no good player finds it “impossible” to dodge stealth attacks. The game gives you enough tools to discern for yourself.

Yeah, pro player like you, who see invisible enemies despite the fact that you don't even know that mesmer can teleport, can dodge attacks from stealth. Teach us, master.

[Equinox.1463]

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@Daishi.6027 said:and even with thief you would have a general idea of being stalked.

How? Don't just say that you see invisible enemies, share how you see them. Do you use some sorts of hacks or something, because no other player in here seems to know the trick you are using to see invisible enemies.

@Daishi.6027 said:While on point there is more than enough distance for you notice a target approaching.

Oh, so you one of those people who don't know that mesmer can teleport around. That explains a lot.

@Daishi.6027 said:Sorry, but no good player finds it “impossible” to dodge stealth attacks. The game gives you enough tools to discern for yourself.

Yeah, pro player like you, who see invisible enemies despite the fact that you don't even know that mesmer can teleport, can dodge attacks from stealth. Teach us, master.

Actually, excepted for pure stealth nuke builds (with over 10 seconds of stacked stealth) you can usually see them stealthing up. I.e., a one-shot chrono using only The Prestige has the "poof" audio effect that is easy to recognize, after which you just dodge after 2 and a half seconds (approx). Things like perma stealth Deadeye that can one shot you though is very hard to counter, especially if they are using DP, where they can stealth upwards 15 seconds after maxing their Malice stacks and then just wait for an opportunity to 20k backstab. (Dang I am giving myself some intentions to play that now lol).

[praqtos.9035]

@DigiQWill.6378 said:

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@Daishi.6027 said:and even with thief you would have a general idea of being stalked.

How? Don't just say that you see invisible enemies, share how you see them. Do you use some sorts of hacks or something, because no other player in here seems to know the trick you are using to see invisible enemies.

@Daishi.6027 said:While on point there is more than enough distance for you notice a target approaching.

Oh, so you one of those people who don't know that mesmer can teleport around. That explains a lot.

@Daishi.6027 said:Sorry, but no good player finds it “impossible” to dodge stealth attacks. The game gives you enough tools to discern for yourself.

Yeah, pro player like you, who see invisible enemies despite the fact that you don't even know that mesmer can teleport, can dodge attacks from stealth. Teach us, master.

Actually, excepted for pure stealth nuke builds (with over 10 seconds of stacked stealth) you can usually see them stealthing up. I.e., a one-shot chrono using only The Prestige has the "poof" audio effect that is easy to recognize, after which you just dodge after 2 and a half seconds (approx). Things like perma stealth Deadeye that can one shot you though is very hard to counter, especially if they are using DP, where they can stealth upwards 15 seconds after maxing their Malice stacks and then just wait for an opportunity to 20k backstab. (Dang I am giving myself some intentions to play that now lol).Small correction : they dont need any malice to oneshot you while deny your ability to evade with a THREE seconds knockdown and 2 seconds of immobilize, just dodge4head (4.4k invisible ranged bullcharge + 17.500 DJ, MB would hit even more). Stealthed targets take solid second to render so even even then I see this laser post factum after I alrdy took the hit (I have 50-60 ping btw, not 200). There was some youtube video where guy took 20k oneshot on wvw, thief used anti-reveal elite and guess what? It looked like nothing has killed him (literally not even rendered except elite stealth animation), there was some smoke animation, and stomped him.

[Vague Memory.2817]

Even the devs must realise now that the complaints about Mes are getting ridiculous. This is the most nerfed class already. Read the skill change notes on the class wiki including core traits. It reads like a massacre. They are not going to redesign what makes a Mes a Mes. There are no Mes topping the leaderboards to my knowledge. That says it all. This obsession with trying to turn Mes into a PvE only class is ludicrous and the devs need to stop pandering to this kind of shit.

[KiroIB.4508]

Oh come on Mesmer are fine

[necromaniac.7629]

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@"necromaniac.7629" said:

No my friend, there a re plenty of ways to not instantly die to their bursts, speaking as mesmer myslef, they do manage to get me to atleast 50% hp but as soon as i see that red thing below me i just invul, dodge stealth and re start the fight.

Wow, so you can "invul, dodge stealth and re start the fight" when you get 1shoted? Could you share what kind of magical skills allow you to do that while you are downed? It would be so interesting to read.

If you yourself can't manage to counter their bursts why even waste my time explaining anything to you

[necromaniac.7629]

@Daishi.6027 said:

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@Daishi.6027 said:Here is a radical idea, maybe you can anticipate the hit and dodge it by knowing he stealth window.

So, players you fight against announce when they enter stealth and when they come close to you without you knowing they are in stealth? With who do you play? I would love to play against people who announce when they are about to ambush me out of stealth.

Unless it’s thief no stealth lasts long enough for you to not know your opponent is there, and even with thief you would have a general idea of being stalked. While on point there is more than enough distance for you notice a target approaching. While roaming yourself you should have a general idea, unless you lack map awareness.

Sorry, but no good player finds it “impossible” to dodge stealth attacks. The game gives you enough tools to discern for yourself.

Oh my gosh, somone with sense!

[necromaniac.7629]

I think its mirage think its mirage that you guys are having problem with and not the class itself

[Zenix.6198]

@"Vague Memory.2817" said:Even the devs must realise now that the complaints about Mes are getting ridiculous. This is the most nerfed class already. Read the skill change notes on the class wiki including core traits. It reads like a massacre. They are not going to redesign what makes a Mes a Mes. There are no Mes topping the leaderboards to my knowledge. That says it all. This obsession with trying to turn Mes into a PvE only class is ludicrous and the devs need to stop pandering to this kind of kitten.

Not saying I agree with all the "hysteria" concerning mesmers .....but what you are saying might also indicate just how flawed by design that spec really is.Cause apparently you can just slap whatever traits you want on this class and still concoct some annoying BS ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[necromaniac.7629]

@Zenix.6198 said:

@"Vague Memory.2817" said:Even the devs must realise now that the complaints about Mes are getting ridiculous. This is the most nerfed class already. Read the skill change notes on the class wiki including core traits. It reads like a massacre. They are not going to redesign what makes a Mes a Mes. There are no Mes topping the leaderboards to my knowledge. That says it all. This obsession with trying to turn Mes into a PvE only class is ludicrous and the devs need to stop pandering to this kind of kitten.

Not saying I agree with all the "hysteria" concerning mesmers .....but what you are saying might also indicate just how flawed by design that spec really is.Cause apparently you can just slap whatever traits you want on this class and still concoct some annoying BS ¯_(ツ)_/¯

ahah ture, but what do mean by flawed design? like in terms of some of the wepons usable by the class or...?

[praqtos.9035]

@Zenix.6198 said:

@"Vague Memory.2817" said:Even the devs must realise now that the complaints about Mes are getting ridiculous. This is the most nerfed class already. Read the skill change notes on the class wiki including core traits. It reads like a massacre. They are not going to redesign what makes a Mes a Mes. There are no Mes topping the leaderboards to my knowledge. That says it all. This obsession with trying to turn Mes into a PvE only class is ludicrous and the devs need to stop pandering to this kind of kitten.

Not saying I agree with all the "hysteria" concerning mesmers .....but what you are saying might also indicate just how flawed by design that spec really is.Cause apparently you can just slap whatever traits you want on this class and still concoct some annoying BS ¯_(ツ)_/¯They cry because mesmer now getting nerfs every patch and they see thats working, why not nag for more nerfs? Because l2p is hard, crying for nerfs is simple. Oh yes, any build that have clones is BS in 2019 (not sarcasm)In all this seven years I never seen clone complaints before. They literally running out of thigns they can complant. All is left from the list they can complain are clones .. that dies to 1 autoattack and exaggerate to extremes and try to make it look like its an ultimate nemesis of the mankind slotted with double elite spec and all utilities and both berserk and sage amulet equipped.They have their last chance with incoming (hopefully) patch before more people quit, in fact, all good players quit alrdy. But since they favors one certain streamer and listen to his cries("holo isnt broken because holo can beat another holo!") and buff his class istead of nerfs, chances that this will happen about zero.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

Got have a ton of patience to explain these kittens how things really work.On my part I'll just say I'm glad, both for me and you, you qqers never played gw1. For me because you would have rage so hard the Internet would close down, for you because you would be laugh at by the whole gw1 community.GW2 "best community" my kitten, bunch of salty qqers.

[Daishi.6027]

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@Daishi.6027 said:and even with thief you would have a general idea of being stalked.

How? Don't just say that you see invisible enemies, share how you see them. Do you use some sorts of hacks or something, because no other player in here seems to know the trick you are using to see invisible enemies.

Great job strawmanning my argument by ignoring the point about map awareness since that is a pretty significant factor to tell where people are, or will be heading, depending on their builds. Not only can you not anticipate or read burst, but you seem incapable of anticipating or reading point rotations too. But okay we’ll call it hacks.

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@Daishi.6027 said:While on point there is more than enough distance for you notice a target approaching.

Oh, so you one of those people who don't know that mesmer can teleport around. That explains a lot.

Oh okay, I guess I’m just unaware Blink and jaunts have unlimited uses, no cooldowns, and I guess portals don’t have an obvious animations and are placed so no one will ever notice them being activated near your point, it’s not like they make a distinct sound or anything. /Sarcasm+Eyeroll

Seriously it’s not hard.If a guy stealth’s at 2000ft away and assuming they have blink off cooldown it’s not hard to gauge the distance and the timing of the 3 second window, and if it’s prestige, it tells you when it’s been cast...

But, oh no! Maybe they slot decoy AND signet instead of torch, (almost no one does this btw), giving them 2 extra seconds of instant no tell stealth, and blowing all their utility to close the distance and try to hide the burst in a grand old 5 second window...Guess I better just lie down and die. If only there are a bunch of block skills that can last 2-4 seconds, or a plethora of other defensive cooldowns on top of the dodge... Oh wait! /MoreSarcasm

Pretty sure I'm being baited, but I’ll be strait with you. If at least for the benefit of others.I don’t need to see my opponent to know they are there, and to anticipate their attack, and no one past a certain level of understand does either.

You ask to explain and it’s hard to beyond describing it as “anticipation” or a “read” like in fighting games, since in fighting games only up to a certain point can you react to before you have to read. The difference being instead of limited frames you have to input, its invisibility. Either way you're anticipating or reading something you cannot directly see and need to actively react to.The only other way I can describe it is in martial arts terms: Dealing with the ambiguity of how an opponent will strike is similar to the concept of “Seme”, where you can feel the psychological pressure of an attack before the attack is made, even thought there is nothing visually to react to, and you can play around it by applying “oji-waza” in game.

[Crab Fear.1624]

These threads wouldn't grow so big if the mesmer mains would ignore them.

It's like picking at a wound when you should ignore it and let it go away on its own.

[Zenix.6198]

@praqtos.9035 said:

@Zenix.6198 said:

@"Vague Memory.2817" said:Even the devs must realise now that the complaints about Mes are getting ridiculous. This is the most nerfed class already. Read the skill change notes on the class wiki including core traits. It reads like a massacre. They are not going to redesign what makes a Mes a Mes. There are no Mes topping the leaderboards to my knowledge. That says it all. This obsession with trying to turn Mes into a PvE only class is ludicrous and the devs need to stop pandering to this kind of kitten.

Not saying I agree with all the "hysteria" concerning mesmers .....but what you are saying might also indicate just how flawed by design that spec really is.Cause apparently you can just slap whatever traits you want on this class and still concoct some annoying BS ¯_(ツ)_/¯They cry because mesmer now getting nerfs every patch and they see thats working, why not nag for more nerfs? Because l2p is hard, crying for nerfs is simple. Oh yes, any build that have clones is BS in 2019 (not sarcasm)In all this seven years I never seen clone complaints before. They literally running out of thigns they can complant. All is left from the list they can complain are clones .. that dies to 1 autoattack and exaggerate to extremes and try to make it look like its an ultimate nemesis of the mankind slotted with double elite spec and all utilities and both berserk and sage amulet equipped.They have their last chance with incoming (hopefully) patch before more people quit, in fact, all good players quit alrdy. But since they favors one certain streamer and listen to his cries("holo isnt broken because holo can beat another holo!") and buff his class istead of nerfs, chances that this will happen about zero.

I mean....you are not wrong.I read a lot of comments, where people seem unable to pinpoint what they actually believe the problem with mesmer is.They just go around and complain about "clone-spam" and how OP stealth is (which it really isnt; at least for mesmer).

Rarely you see someone actually giving a reasonable argument.Like, when people complain about "flawed by design", I kinda get what they mean.Mesmer, design-wise, is supposed to be this "control"-type character, which already means it has an inherent "pvp-focus".

Limiting movement (with lots of torment and soft CC).Limiting casting (with lots of confusion).Getting interrupted is actually punishing.Boon-control.

You can't deny, that these things dont have a certain "pvp-focus". Which is a legitimate concern when talking about the "design flaws" of the class (at least for PvP).

But yes, I also agree, that calling mesmer OP because of their "clone spam" or "stealth being broken" is just nonsense.

[mortrialus.3062]

@Vague Memory.2817 said:Even the devs must realise now that the complaints about Mes are getting ridiculous. This is the most nerfed class already. Read the skill change notes on the class wiki including core traits. It reads like a massacre. They are not going to redesign what makes a Mes a Mes. There are no Mes topping the leaderboards to my knowledge. That says it all. This obsession with trying to turn Mes into a PvE only class is ludicrous and the devs need to stop pandering to this kind of kitten.

Account name ckod was rank 12 the other day on Chaotic Interruption on NA. It's doing better than mesmer usually does.