Guardian Balance Changes Discussion

[otto.5684]

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@otto.5684 said:

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@draxynnic.3719 said:

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@Hagion.1086 said:

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:Why does it seem like ANET is of the belief that the only PVE power DPS build you can use is DH?Bad enough they culled RI, but now they removed some passive sustain from GS? Sure if you're a DH you get compensated a bit with changes to Leap, but we don't all choose to play DH. :/

100% agree! Why they do that?? GS Heal hit sustain are great with my Crusader build..

Also hurts GS Quickbrand both in Fractals and OW. I really want to know what they tried to "fix" here?

They keep saying they want elites to have to live with trade offs, but in this patch as well as last one, they have weakened Core more than anything else. Just doesn't make sense.

Probably because guardian, like necromancer, has always had tradeoffs: you give up the core virtues for the elite spec virtues. You might argue that it's not much of a tradeoff since you're not giving up a lot on the virtue actives, but the old guardian virtue actives being instantaneous can be beneficial in some circumstances, and they provide a lever through which core guardian can be balanced separately to dragonhunters and firebrands.

DH already outperforms Core DPS by at least 10% on a Golem, and that assumes the Core has Aegis up, otherwise it's a flat 30%. Now, technically, DH has been given a survivability boost over Core by the removal of the GS heal. Again, why? Was DH underplayed? Core too powerful? Id question anyone who agreed with either of those statements.

I won't say it is a suvivability boost to DH, since both used zeal in PvE anyway and both will lose on the sustain. However, it surely is a nerf to zeal/radiance/valor build in sPvP. After doing a bit of testing yesterday, I think the damage is about even before and after the patch in sPvP. Stronger potential but less consistent. The healing was the only source of sustain zeal offered. With it gone, and damage about the same, it is overall nerf in sPvP. The heal on leap of faith does not count cuz it cannot hit kitten, especially won't hit a group of enemies.

Overall, condi/hybrid builds got buffs in PvE and better diversity, with zeal in the mix. Everything else is the same. Power builds are viable but cannot compete P2 and beyond. And of course, are not AT viable. It will remain FB only in PvP for.. I guess the next expansion, unless FB gets massively nerfed, which is more likely considering it is over performing and Anet does not fix kitten. Just nerf it out of viability.

Unrelated, if core power to ever become PvE viable, Unscathed Contender must be changed from aegis to something else (retaliation makes most sense).

I should have been clearer. DH didn't get a boost as much as it was compensated by increasing the healing from F2 if you land on multiple targets. It's not the same thing, obv, but DH did gain a means of increased healing while Core/FB lost it.

I agree with your last sentence, as even running with Retreat and x/Shield, Aegis isn't going to stay up since Chrono got gutted. I still prefer it over standard DH as it brings group utility from virtues and leaves me more wiggle room on the utility bar. But I highly doubt they would roll more benefit into retaliation, not without first making retaliation harder to sustain.

Just don't understand a nerf to something nobody had/should have had a problem with.

Unrelated note guardian does close to no damage without damage multiplyers. Seriously. DH 30% damage between tether and cripple. Radiance 10% damage, 25% critic chance, 150 ferocity. Zeal 10% damage from symbolic avenger 5% to vulnerable targets. I do not think moving unscathed contender from aegis to retaliation is a big deal. Specially now, with division of damage between radiance and zeal. They can always reduce the mutiplyer from 20% to 10% and buff the extra damage per boon from 1% to 2%, for virtues grand master minor. I think this will be much better for build diversity, in PvE that is..