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Water traits give more dmg than fire traits now.


Vova.2640

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@NICENIKESHOE.7128 said:

@NICENIKESHOE.7128 said:I'm curious about water/air/tempest dps in raid that provide some added bonus to group though, since grandmaster trait is still free for aura share/cleanse with the 2 damage buff. It'll give the raid group some adaptability, especially for groups that healers struggled or unable to adapt to situations.

Fire spec still gives 150 power and 10% damage outside of fire attunement (+300 power while in fire) and 20% cdr of fire skills which is pretty big. Water skills are useless and you barely even attune to water to use extra 10% damage.

I'll give you the CD one, which is a big thing. But in terms of damage buff water offers 10% Piercing Shards and 10% Flow like Water. This is only slight worse than fire traitline, which has 10% Pyromancer's Training, 4% empowering flames and 4-8% Power Overwhelming (assuming full zerk + food + 25 might). Obviously if min-max damage you'll go for fire for the reduce CD + extra burns + persisting flames, but water doesn't lose out that much in terms of damage while offering nice synergy to tempest aura share.

You get 300 power when you cast those fire skills which is big. It's comparable to 10% damage while in water attunement, but water doesnt have any useful dps skills, while fire ones are the part of rotation.

It's definitely viable to play FA tempest with either fire, arcane or water spec, but I still think that fire is the most reliable one for dps because the buffs are consistent and part of the rotation. Arcane (and water to some degree) rely on good supports, but they also bring decent self sustain so they are definitely more newbie friendly, while bringing comparable dps numbers.

Yeah 300 power when in fire + another 150 power from empowering flames minor trait. That's 450 power which is roughly 450/3550=12.6% damage boost when considering the standard SC build for tempest + 25 stacks of might. Along with 10% of pyro's training that's a good 22.6% damage buff from fire traitline when attune to fire and 18.4% buff when not in fire, so it is very comparable to straight up 20% buff from water as calculated below.

Some people also kind of forget that this change allows piercing shards to work on non-water attunement by 10%, so you don't have to swap to water skills even if you trait for water line. Couple that 10% from piercing shard with 10% from the new Flow Like Water (10% damage when >75% health) it is still a good 20% damage buff.

Interestingly if you see this rotation video you'll notice tempest
doesn't use fire as often
, so the CD doesn't play that much into it.

So yeah I'd still go for fire/air/weaver if I'm just going for balls-to-walls dps on ele. But water/air/tempest is probably the better tempest dps/support hybrid build if tempest is your dig.

EDIT: fixing broken link, I gave up on build editor lol

You're forgetting burning precision and increased duration on wildfire. You can even see on 00:25 that wildfire could be used if he ran fire spec instead of arcane (which also gives 20% damage). The only reason why benchmark is using arcane is because it's easy for pro guilds to achieve that amount of boons and keep them up constantly (because they phase bosses extremely fast as well). Anywhere else it's unreliable and worse than fire (even though fire currently has lower value than fire after patch, just because of global dps traits).

Water tempest will probably be better alternative to arcane because you can share shocking aura (or even fury if it's lacking somehow) and increase group sustain slightly. ~5-10% dps difference between water and fire isnt important unless you're speedclearing anyway.

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@"Vova.2640" said:Great balance Anet. 10/10.

It actually is :)

Now every element has a built in cdr and has options that also work outside on said element, but often with reduces effect. That makes it much more appealing. It feels so much better having a global bonus to some stuff and double it while on a specific element instead having nothing outside of the element.

They should all rephrase to the global/double bonus standard instead of the one thing still being "half of it is outside the element".

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D/D would make most use of the change imho. The ability to have 2 trait lines with global benefits would be nice... could be 3 without Arcane. Will miss ToF though PepeHands

Fire Weaver would be my go to, but after enjoying D/D core.

Might also try Tempest even though I am against its design, but... yeah.

Arcane is lovely with the lower attunements CD and Evasive Arcana, however, I may try letting go of it - will need to search into runes and sigils more for that.

I might try Water/Fire and Fire/Air for Staff in WvW for comparison, will surely try the 3 lines in PvE deeps. But I still think Fire/Air ftw because of lower CD.

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@Stallic.2397 said:This might be premature, but has anyone tried fresh air weaver/scepter with piercing shards instead of arcane traitline? There's plenty of vulnerability access in that weapon set. Creates a more roundabout burst instead of just using air combo.

Burst is a bit higher, but if you fail to kill then you have 0 chance of making it alive. With arcane there's at least some minimal chance of escaping or kiting.

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@Stallic.2397 said:This might be premature, but has anyone tried fresh air weaver/scepter with piercing shards instead of arcane traitline? There's plenty of vulnerability access in that weapon set. Creates a more roundabout burst instead of just using air combo.

The lack of arcane means no protection.You will have to rely on ToF and heals from water attune and evades to survive...It might have higher burst, but it will be very vulnerable to burst itself.Not only that, but you will also loose swiftness from air and regen from water... arcane is just too important for a burst build.

It might work better as core (water/air/arcane), the loss of the attunements GC from weaver makes up for the loss of dual skills. Still very risky build

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Wait, why are we complaining about this? Water has needed some diversity for a long time. Speaking as a core PvP/WvW Ele, I always felt hindered by choosing Water, but it was necessary in order to keep up with the cleansing. But that was all it was good for, condi cleanse. It was a burden to have to choose it, hurting our overall DPS because it was a completely defensive line. However with the recent changes to Fire and Water, I can honestly say that the chains that bound us so often to Water and Arcane are finally starting to weaken. I feel more flexible in my build choices as of late. That's a good thing.

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@fuzzyp.6295 said:Wait, why are we complaining about this? Water has needed some diversity for a long time. Speaking as a core PvP/WvW Ele, I always felt hindered by choosing Water, but it was necessary in order to keep up with the cleansing. But that was all it was good for, condi cleanse. It was a burden to have to choose it, hurting our overall DPS because it was a completely defensive line. However with the recent changes to Fire and Water, I can honestly say that the chains that bound us so often to Water and Arcane are finally starting to weaken. I feel more flexible in my build choices as of late. That's a good thing.

I feel the same way, it was so refreshing to play core in pvp without cleansing in Water and arcane.

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@"bbop.9706" said:

Anyone know what the exact build is?

There is the FA buff so it's 3-2-2 in Air. There is also Soothing Mist and thus 2-3-X (X is preferably 3, but either pick the GM traits add no damage). Tempest is 3-3-3. Same gear as pre-patch.

Roul replaced Arcane with Water, because Water now provides 20% or more damage modifiers while Arcane is still desperate to provide 12-14% worth of modifiers.

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@Auburner.6945 said:

There is the FA buff so it's 3-2-2 in Air. There is also Soothing Mist and thus 2-3-X (X is preferably 3, but either pick the GM traits add no damage). Tempest is 3-3-3. Same gear as pre-patch.

Roul replaced Arcane with Water, because Water now provides 20% or more damage modifiers while Arcane is still desperate to provide 12-14% worth of modifiers.

Nice, thanks!

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@Auburner.6945 said:

@"bbop.9706" said:

Anyone know what the exact build is?

There is the FA buff so it's 3-2-2 in Air. There is also Soothing Mist and thus 2-3-X (X is preferably 3, but either pick the GM traits add no damage). Tempest is 3-3-3. Same gear as pre-patch.

Roul replaced Arcane with Water, because Water now provides 20% or more damage modifiers while Arcane is still desperate to provide 12-14% worth of modifiers.

Yea, I tested the air/water/tempest in fotm T4 and CMs last night and its great for group. DPS is not as high as weaver (mostly my fault with overloads in wrong phases), but using aura-share and aura heal traits does not decrease the dps and it provides a ton of group-wide auras and heals.The build help with keeping the group constantly healed and improves group dps nicely with the new static charge.

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@lLobo.7960 said:

@"bbop.9706" said:

Anyone know what the exact build is?

There is the FA buff so it's 3-2-2 in Air. There is also Soothing Mist and thus 2-3-X (X is preferably 3, but either pick the GM traits add no damage). Tempest is 3-3-3. Same gear as pre-patch.

Roul replaced Arcane with Water, because Water now provides 20% or more damage modifiers while Arcane is still desperate to provide 12-14% worth of modifiers.

Yea, I tested the air/water/tempest in fotm T4 and CMs last night and its great for group. DPS is not as high as weaver (mostly my fault with overloads in wrong phases), but using aura-share and aura heal traits does not decrease the dps and it provides a ton of group-wide auras and heals.The build help with keeping the group constantly healed and improves group dps nicely with the new static charge.

I actually might have missed this. Probably Water 2-3-2 is better because of Powerful Aura's synergy with Tempest's traits, which contributes to group healing/utility as a DPS.

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